aloneness, loneliness and self regulation

[Zoe Girl]

So I am working with these things, and not wanting or feeling I need therapy or a big change. But it just times it is rough. Mostly it is hard because I planned on having a full life when my kids were grown/almost grown and some days it is not great.

This seems so stupid, I am 47 and have been single for 10 years and had a 1 year relationship. Most all of my friends are gone or have such different lives. There is no one thing or person to blame, this isn't supposed to be a pity party. It just is, and I still want to keep trying to make friends or maybe a relationship. When it gets difficult then I want to go on Buddhist retreat. I was almost able to do a dedicated practitioner group with a teacher and then I just couldn't make that commitment with time. I am supporting our local buddhist group so I can't go those nights. I listen to a lot of dharma talks, one theme I have been hearing in these talks is about how being near people and especially ones practicing meditation helps us 'co-regulate' our emotions. So how do you do if you don't have much access to co-regulating (on a side note I went through a long time of aloneness and went crazy, not pretty, burned out friends and took a long time).

This kinda kicked off because my best friend is separated, she is going to get divorced as soon as they financially can but there is not relationship to go back to. She started dating, found a great guy, is able to give the house and the teenage boys to the care of the ex in a very positive way, and is now moving in with him. She actually gets out of the overwhelming care and housework of the kids almost overnight. Whatever that looks like, something is supporting her. My version of single parent involves 10 years of at least one child 24-7, their dad is a narcissist and none of them want to be at his house. Even during the foreclosure and move when I arranged that they could stay with their dad they all refused. I guess that feels good in some way.

Ok really verbally wandering all over, just anyone with feedback is fine.

[rodeosweetheart]

This kinda kicked off because my best friend is separated, she is going to get divorced as soon as they financially can but there is not relationship to go back to. She started dating, found a great guy, is able to give the house and the teenage boys to the care of the ex in a very positive way, and is now moving in with him. She actually gets out of the overwhelming care and housework of the kids almost overnight. Whatever that looks like, something is supporting her. My version of single parent involves 10 years of at least one child 24-7, their dad is a narcissist and none of them want to be at his house. Even during the foreclosure and move when I arranged that they could stay with their dad they all refused. I guess that feels good in some way.

Ok really verbally wandering all over, just anyone with feedback is fine.

It sounds like you are in a transition phase to me, from one stage of life into a new one. This is very disconcerting, when we cannot see where we are going and cannot image what it will look like. I found myself going through that when my children left home, and I am about 10 years older than you, with a similar kind of divorce situation.

You have been through a lot. It's easy to compare our road to someone else's like your friend, and it can look easier or whatever, but we just don't really know what our path holds until we get there. We don't even know what her path holds, and she may look back 10 years from now and say, Oh, I wish I had stayed with the kids, kept the house--you just don't know so it's easy to drive ourselves crazy with that thinking, but since we don't really know, it doesn't really help us to be happier.

The way I see I, you probably have half of your life left, and you have concentrated on doing a wonderful job raising your kids, and now you can concentrate on making yourself happy now, whatever form that might take. Or make yourself at peace, if you find that a better goal.

[Zoe Girl]

Thank you, mostly for not giving me some quippy easy fix answer. Some quick 'join match.com' and in 20 minutes it will be better. Part of my isolation is self imposed because I didn't want to hear that anymore and it is rare to have someone just say, 'yeah this is how it is'.

I want to move a career on to a new phase and I want to spend my free time going on retreats and practicing Buddhism intently. It is a transition phase for sure, the bottom feels like it is open and free falling.

[ToomuchStuff]

The friends thing, is normal/natural from what I have experience. I tended to be younger then my friends, so they were always ahead of me in a lot of things. Some parts I actually was ahead of them (I bought my home before most of them, was the second homeowner in the group). But they found loved ones, had kids, have moved to different parts of the country, and tend to keep in touch with Facebook and such (I don't use those sites). Then I have other friends who are, or are connected to famous people. (one reason I stay off of those sites, been hounded by family before to try to get autographes, etc) I don't have the money or the time to go play like they can. It is nice to visit them, and some stories are priceless, but I am not a mooch and privacy is paramount.
That also caused me problems before, because the woman I proposed to, was actually hoping I would set her up with one of them and she could be a kept woman. (yet another bad christmas) That coupled with I never wanted kids (didn't want to be like my family, or what I was told I would grow up to become, if I lived) pretty much killed my personal life. I've had several married ones hit on me, and one that I have liked for years, going through a divorce with her husband (both friends), lately that I haven't been able to get out of my mind. (or the stuff shoved on me growing up that mixes with relationships, in my head. Not real but too much a part of my psyche) But I have never acted upon those (don't want to be that guy). Self regulation and being alone, are personal choices, loneliness, not so much. You can be in a room full of people you know, and still feel that. You can be with the person you love and still feel that (why I think so many people cheat).

The person you have to be happiest with, is the one in the mirror. I wish there was an easy answer otherwise, but I have never found it, and grown up not feeling safe risking myself or others for it.

[Suzanne]

Whew, Zoe, that's a tough one. It seems so unfair, doesn't it, that you worked so hard and tried to do it all right, and now your friend just swans off into a whole new world and sheds all the encumbrances?

I don't have a whole lot of advice here. I'm in a marriage where I feel very alone most of the time, and I get lonely. It's not quite as easy as "Go out and make some friends!" I went back to school, and love what I'm doing (working on a Master's degree), but I'm older than some of the professors...most of the students are younger than my children. Older students have their own sets of commitments. We don't live on campus and socialization opportunities are few. Can't get chummy with professors of my own age - there are ethical standards to uphold. My family, as in my grown children, my sisters, and brother, live in other countries. Skype's very nice, and Facebook helps with staying in touch, but sometimes I'd like to just hop a bus and go window-shopping with a friend, or hang out over a coffee and joke around a bit, or share a whinge about petty irritations.

I'm wondering about the dedicated practitioner class. I think the local buddhist group would be very supportive of you taking this class. Not only would you be gaining valuable skills for your own use and be immersed in co-regulation during your transition period, you'd be bringing stronger support to them. It may be time for you to turn your focus away from what you can do for others to what you can do for yourself. That sounds really selfish and wrong, but there is a world of difference between being self-centred as in thinking the whole world should revolve about one's perceived needs, and being self-centred as being centred in one's self. The right kind of self-centredness gives one balance, ballast, and peace.

Given what I just said about being alone and lonely within my marriage, that might sound like so much hogwash. However, since I started looking to myself, I've felt a whole lot better. I've accepted that I am alone, and there's much more peace within the marriage. My self-esteem is much healthier, I have a solid sense of accomplishment, and I have a series of easily attainable goals.

I'd still like to have somebody I could hang out with in real time, but I'm in a much better place than a few years ago.

[Zoe Girl]

I may ask our group about the dedicated practitioner group tonight at our meeting. It doesn't hurt to ask for that support after all.

Okay here is the emotional zinger, she gets to (in less than a month no less) move from taking care of a house and kids to only taking care of herself and a dog and everything will be fine. Maybe it is not a wise idea to move in with the guy as compared to living on her own but she does not need to downsize by 70% and put her kids through that or give animals to the pound or even move her kids out of the house. Like how my ex could go on business trips and vacation and things were always ok because I was there. But when I needed to downsize and move I needed to deal with the trauma of 3 kids. It is the kind of thing that for a short time I thought was possible but really is not. In the middle of adult life she gets to go back to that college apartment phase without having to get kids to college or keep a spare room in case they come home, even the dogs are going to her ex seamlessly.

Cranky today,...

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yea that's what I got from it. It's kind of a desire for a fairy godmother or prince charming, wave of the magic wand, and all that weighs one down is gone. Whereas just a desire for a relationship as such, one could say "join match.com", but then some people find someone and some people never do I guess (I'm not the person to ask for advice on that).

But what about her ex-husband, he gets the responsibility of taking care of the house and kids now right? (don't know if he's re-partnered or anything but). So his life is not easy.


It is the kind of thing that for a short time I thought was possible but really is not.

possible is one thing, likely is another

[SteveinMN]

she gets to (in less than a month no less) move from taking care of a house and kids to only taking care of herself and a dog and everything will be fine.
And you know that ... how? She has no guarantees with this guy. If it does not work out, where does she live?

I also find it interesting that you don't seem to believe the kids will suffer for the domestic upheaval around them. Yeah, maybe they don't have to move, but their parents are getting divorced. As common as that may be these days, it's still A Thing. They might not feel a bit abandoned that Mom can just up and move out of their house to be with her new guy before the divorce is even final? Maybe it's just me, but I see the potential for plenty of icebergs ahead.

In the meantime, I agree with TMS and Suzanne. It is time right now to spend more time and energy on yourself. You are falling into a classic "caretaker" situation in which you're giving giving giving to others without regard to yourself. If you want to keep giving people flowers out of your basket, you've got to stop and refill the basket now and then. Concentrate on what makes you happy and whole. Just getting into a relationship is not going to solve everything. If you want to go for that dedicated practitioner position, go for it. If it's time to pull back some to develop other interests or viewpoints, do that. If you're happy with whatever you're doing, who you're doing it with is secondary.

[iris lilies]

...I also find it interesting that you don't seem to believe the kids will suffer for the domestic upheaval around them...

Agreed, and that's what I thought of when OP was waxing on about this perfect situation for her friend. Walking out on her children at a vulnerable time for them is not something I would aspire to.

[Zoe Girl]

Thank you all, I actually believe it will hurt them and when she asked advice that was what I said. It would be hard for teenage boys to not just have mom move out but with another man in a short term relationship as well. I can't quite get my head around it, that she does not seem to think there will be any affect on them because she will take them to movies. Part of my waxing poetic is because I would (and have) be deeply concerned and aware of my kids in the situation. The other thing that gives me pause now that I am not so jealous of the 10 hours a week of house cleaning is that she is not taking this chance to live on her own and just date this new great guy. To have her own place, her own way, her own time, … since the spiritual focus is my major awareness in life I realize I am not totally jealous, but I sure felt it for awhile.

Spending time on myself, I did go to our meeting of the group facilitators and talked about how I feel our overall group does not have much support for us. People drop in and out and we barely make rent. I am not the only one feeling like this so it was good to start and talk about it. I didn't avoid conflict in bringing it up either. We may reduce the number of meetings for one thing. Another is that one other facilitator has found a teacher to work with long distance with a variety of ways to practice and connect. And tomorrow I go to orientation so I can volunteer in the field I want to grow into from where I am at. It is long process ahead but okay.

[razz]

Zoegirl, when I entered widowhood about 22 months ago, I gave myself time to think things through. The dream of the past was no longer relevant. It took about 15 months to find a new dream for my life ahead. I resolved to live in the now. I cherished what was wonderful of the past, discarded any yucks without rehearsal but knew that it was only today that I would experience.

The dream did not involve another in any way as it is my dream. If someone wants to buy in at some point (which I very much doubt will happen) it will be on my terms.

Can you find a dream for the rest of your life to guide your actions?

I am finding warmth and friendship in many situations - a walking companion, an art group, a gardening group, weekly cards, theatre. I find that I must often first volunteer and the rest comes. The walking group evolved from my Metopera group and into a book group. I aired my interests and others wanted to share. Have not found a ballet performance companion as yet though but that is OK.
Find out your key interests, share them and see what unfolds. Start with small steps. Have faith in yourself as a beautiful and loveable being and see the same in others.

[Suzanne]

Just one more thing, Zoegirl: you don't have to ask permission from your group. You can, however, ask for support. I'm glad that you opened the conversation with them!

[SteveinMN]

she does not seem to think there will be any affect on them because she will take them to movies.
I could not point to/have not looked for real studies of this, but I have seen several people (the ones who initiiated the process) enter the divorce process thinking they know exactly how it will go and that everyone will just move on with their lives happy with the new normal. I'm not sure where this clouded vision comes from, but I've seen it a surprising number of times from ordinarily-reasonable people.

[SteveinMN]

The dream did not involve another in any way as it is my dream. If someone wants to buy in at some point (which I very much doubt will happen) it will be on my terms.
When my wife and I divorced, one of the questions I had for myself was whether I ever would be in another committed relationship. My answer (to myself) was that it didn't matter if I was, because I was going to be happy with myself. I would have my own time and energy to improve what I wanted to improve about my life and I was going to enjoy life whether or not I was with someone else. Not that I needed no one -- friends provided critical support in the recovery process for me. But it was only after I had a chance to reflect on what had happened within the marriage and actualize that I was healthy enough to choose to be in a committed relationship. And one of the things I like most about DW is that she is healthy enough to choose to be in a committed relationship. And in one with me.

[ToomuchStuff]

The other thing that gives me pause now that I am not so jealous of the 10 hours a week of house cleaning is that she is not taking this chance to live on her own and just date this new great guy. To have her own place, her own way, her own time, … since the spiritual focus is my major awareness in life I realize I am not totally jealous, but I sure felt it for awhile.



House cleaning? (I expect she still has to help at his place) The way that is written, it isn't really clear to me with the double negatives. (not so, not taking) However jealousy tends to be in one of two forms, Envy and wishing bad things on others. Think about which you actually feel and why and maybe you can answer your own "what should I focus on" questions, that you may not realize you have.

[Spartana]

When my wife and I divorced, one of the questions I had for myself was whether I ever would be in another committed relationship. My answer (to myself) was that it didn't matter if I was, because I was going to be happy with myself. I would have my own time and energy to improve what I wanted to improve about my life and I was going to enjoy life whether or not I was with someone else. Not that I needed no one -- friends provided critical support in the recovery process for me. But it was only after I had a chance to reflect on what had happened within the marriage and actualize that I was healthy enough to choose to be in a committed relationship. And one of the things I like most about DW is that she is healthy enough to choose to be in a committed relationship. And in one with me.

This was my reasoning after I divorced too. Life was great and was going to be even better - whether I was with someone or not. I really loved being single (maybe too much :-)!) and felt as if there was a whole new world to explore, new things to do and try without having to deal with some of the issues that come with being part of a couple (i.e. compromises). It's not that I don't enjoy being with someone (have been with a great guy for quite awhile now) but have felt a deep and profound sense of fulfillment just being on my own without a partner - or the need for a partner.

[Tammy]

Razz I love what you write.

[razz]

Razz I love what you write.

Thank you. Sometimes I wonder if I say too much so your comment is appreciated.

[Gardenarian]

If you want to keep giving people flowers out of your basket, you've got to stop and refill the basket now and then.

That's a really lovely image, Steve!

[margene]

Personally leaving my children I would not find easy at all. I haven't met a man that would be able to fill that void.

[margene]

This is not really related to your original post. But I was reading my comment above and thinking how judgemental I sounded towards your friend. This may have been the best option for her kids to stay in their own home. I gonna guess it wasn't easy for her.

[Teacher Terry]

Maybe the Dad is the better parent & the boys will be better off. I think there will be some issues of abandonment at some point that she will need to deal with. Personally I would have never left my 3 boys in a million years. Yes raising kids is hard & even harder when you are single. Sometimes I would fantasize about running off & living on sailboat with a handsome guy & being free (was not in a very good marriage). However, that was pure fantasy & I never would have done it. Zoegirl I think you can be proud about raising your kids>8).

[pony mom]

Your friend is exactly where she needs to be, and so are you. Maybe she has no desire to broaden her horizons and work on developing herself. You do. You can, in any way that works for you.

I've always believed that things happen for a reason, and everything is exactly as it should be. Take advantage of the fact that you are on your own, and use that time for yourself. Perhaps your friend jumps into a committed relationship so she can avoid the introspective work, and she may fall into the same patterns in this relationship as well.

[ToomuchStuff]

Some women are different then others, I will never know the entire story about my biological grandmother on one side, who left, after a relative was off the tit. What I know has been from a bad conversation with another relative, that I didn't know about, and learned about how crazy and potentially dangerous, that side is.
There were some abandonment issues, but it could have been SO much worse.

[JaneV2.0]

My g-grandmother ditched both of her children after weaning, also--figuratively dropped them off at an orphanage. I think some of us just aren't born with the mest gene (responsible for maternal attachment).