Our dog has really elevated liver enzymes :(

[CathyA]

Our dog is a stray mutt we took in about 12 years ago. About 2 years ago she was sleeping all the time, so we tested her for thyroid, and it was low. She's been on thyroxine ever since. For a couple months now, she's been panting a lot and drinking more water and more anxious than usual.
I feed her Blue Buffalo dry food, along with Taste of the Wild canned food. We give her heart worm med year-round and flea/tick med in the summer.

We took her to the vet yesterday for a thyroid level (which she was due for), and it's been sent out to another lab. We requested a blood sugar and chemistry and it showed a normal blood sugar, but a couple very elevated liver enzymes. They took an xray and the liver did not appear enlarged. She also started vomiting yesterday (before the vet's visit), but I think it's just a stomach bug. I'm cutting back on her thyroxine a little, since some of her symptoms seem to point to that. I can always go back up on it when the test results are in. Oh....and she's drinking and peeing a lot. I sent in a urine sample and it was negative.

So.......I guess there are many possible reasons for her liver enzymes to be up. Not sure what to do next. The vet gave us a med that is supposed to support the liver (almost $100).

I really want to change vets, since I don't trust this vet's knowledge level, but we would have to drive 20 miles to a better vet and our dog goes absolutely bonkers, just driving 10 miles. She gets so worked up, I fear she'll have a heart attack. But this liver thing is serious, so I think I'll consider another vet.

Anyone ever have a dog with liver problems? I'm reading up on it. Just want her to be our little puppy dog as long as possible and be healthy.
Any experience with this?
Thanks.

[lmerullo]

Cathy, so sorry you are going through this. For me, my dogs are family - just as valued as a child or brother.

Unfortunately, we lost our 14YO black lab to liver failure. It was very quick - just days really. By the time we realized he wasn't eating (we all assumed the other was feeding him) he'd not eaten in about five days. He was still drinking. We took him to the vet and were basically told it would soon be his time to cross the rainbow bridge. I think he made it three more days and then we took him for that last vet visit.

One of my current dogs was born on the day he died, though. She's now 15. When she was three or four we took her for an xray to check her hips. She seemed to be hesitant to jump at a young age. Well the vet did lots of imaging to check her spine as well and her innards since she twice had had ulcers. We were told she had kidney disease and wouldn't last long. Well, we never treated it and she's still here with no problems.

All that to say - medicine is not perfect. Not for pets nor humans. Sometimes we are given info that needs to be acted upon, and sometimes it's just info.

BTW, we feed blue buffalo too.

[CathyA]

So sorry about your black lab. I've made an appointment with a different vet in a nearby town who is supposed to be really knowledgeable. And we got in this coming Saturday! I'm just tired of feeling smarter than the vet......even though it's the closest place around.

It will be interesting what he has to say. I just find it strange that they just handed DH the results (extremely high liver enzymes), and had nothing else to offer except a med.........no information on all the possible causes and treatments. I just hope our doggie's heart can tolerate the longer ride to the new vet. She's always had an irregular heartbeat and she goes absolutely bonkers in the car, but the vet kept saying that was normal...... We'll see........
I guess it's too much to expect "professionals" to know everything they should. It's always sooooooo good to find someone who is truly good at their profession.
Thanks Imerullo!

[Teacher Terry]

A good vet is really important. I think it is wise that you are switching. We had a dog that had Cushing's disease & that caused liver problems. It was actually a pretty horrible disease so here's hoping for a better outcome for your baby. Our dogs are our kids so we do the best we can within reason to provide good care. The real kids are long grown up. Good thing-I don't think I could afford both kinds of kids:~).

[CathyA]

Thanks Teacher Terry. Yes....kids of all kinds are very expensive! I've had a lot of sick pets (dogs, cat, chickens).
Thanks for your reply.

[Suzanne]

My dog very recently had leptospirosis. That causes elevated liver enzymes. The leptospirosis took three rounds of antibiotics to flush out, but our 12-year-old muttso is like a puppy now - full of bounce and sass!

[CathyA]

Thanks for that info Suzanne. What kinds of symptoms did your dog have? I'm glad you brought this up. My dog has been drinking yukky water in the back yard, and also yesterday I found a dead opossum out by the garden. leptospirosis is definitely something that should be ruled out. I'm glad your doggie is okay now!

[Suzanne]

Trotsky started off being a bit listless, not really sick, just lower energy. I noticed that he smelt different, not his usual nice clean dog smell, and that his fur felt different, sort of powdery. He was being pickier about his food but eating well,, and not losing weight. Then one morning he looked sick - head hanging, tail straight (normally it does 1 1/2 very tight curls), so he was whisked off to the vet.

[Suzanne]

Trotsky started off being a bit listless, not really sick, just lower energy. I noticed that he smelt different, not his usual nice clean dog smell, and that his fur felt different, sort of powdery. He was being pickier about his food but eating well,, and not losing weight. Then one morning he looked sick - head hanging, tail straight (normally it does 1 1/2 very tight curls), so he was whisked off to the vet. At first we were told that he very likely had liver cancer, because the liver enzymes were so high, but the vet sent off another vial of blood to check for leptospirosis, and that test came back positive.

I hope things turn out well for your dog. Please keep us posted.

[Kestra]

There are a lot of reasons for elevated liver enzymes, some treatable, some only somewhat manageable with supplements, some chronic, some acute or fatal.
To give a starter list:
Cushings
Lepto
Infectious Hepatitis
Random/Idiopathic hepatitis/liver inflammation
Associated gastrointestinal issues - that whole part of the body is messed up
Liver cancers
Toxins
Some medications
Congenital problems (least likely here)

So pretty much everything involves some rule-out testing, monitoring the enzymes, potentially supplements (Denosyl is one of the common ones here - there are several), alternative supplements - milk thistle works well for some dogs, and IV fluids if it's severe. You can do liver biopsies, often just ultrasound guided so it's not a major surgery.

You just need to find a vet who works with your personality type. Some people want a vet who just does every test in the book, some want simple explanations...complicated medical articles/explanations... minimal or cheap treatment.

For me, being a vet tech so extra knowledgeable pet owner I want to know what a test is going to show, how useful this is result may or may not be, if it will affect the treatment, the prognosis compared to cost. Then I can weigh the decisions.

For example, when my cat was coughing, we did an x-ray first thing just to see if there was a tumour, as that would affect all other decisions; the vet then offered a transtracheal wash to collect cells/bacteria, but we decided to treat it empirically with corticolsteroids for asthma/cancer and see if that helped first. I don't think I bothered with the bloodwork because not much that's related to coughing shows up on a blood test. That's with a vet that I had a good relationship with, and we had a similar opinion of what constituted the right level of care. That's the most important thing in my experience.

[kib]

I think that's really true. When we first got Mojave Bob we took him to a practice that was associated with his strays program; neutering was free so we figured it made sense to stay there. We were given a brand new vet, what I think of as an "upsell" person, and she just drove me nuts. Oh, she thought he had ringworm, she though he had feline leukemia, she thought he had calicivirus. About $500 in, we realized what our "free" cat had was travel stress + an overzealous young vet, he was otherwise just fine. While I realize this wouldn't please anyone, I would have found that level of excess and expense inappropriate at any time.

Good luck, Cathy.

[CathyA]

Thanks everyone. DH and I are both medical professionals, so I think it's natural for us to question some of the vet's statements/lack of knowledge, etc.
We went to the new Vet this morning and were very happy with him. He was a great teacher, and said all the right things. From her liver enzymes, he's thinking Cushings. :(
I told him we'd prefer to have something else, thanks. :~)
But....he said that she doesn't have a lot of the other symptoms (other than the elevated liver enzymes)...so maybe she has something else or we've just found the Cushings very early on.
He's repeating the chemistries and if the enzymes are still elevated, he wants her to have an ultrasound. They have a radiologist from Purdue come and perform them.
I guess older dogs can develop "sludge" in their gall bladders, and then stuff backs up into the liver. A medication would help that a lot.
So....I'm just waiting for the labs on Monday and we'll go from there.

The xray I took he said showed a normal-sized liver....which is good.

We asked about Leptospirosis and he said that the animal is usually very sick, very quickly, so he doubts she has that.

I think this place will be great.......but it's about 20 miles from home, and our dog truly goes CRAZY in the car......so I might ask for medication.

[CathyA]

Our dog had her ultrasound today. Good news! Her adrenals looked normal, so he feels that rules out Cushings. Everything looked good except for a narrowing of the neck of the gall bladder. So now the vet is thinking that area just needs cleaned out......which is what the drug Ursodiol does. So she'll be on that, plus amoxicillin, and a supplement that has milk thistle in it, that's supposed to be great for the liver. These drugs cost about $175.00! But....we're relieved it's not Cushings.
What was great, was that another vet who just does ultrasounds came in and did the test....so I feel we can trust the reading.

[Tussiemussies]

So glad to hear that you dog's condition is treatable. And that partly done with herbs...wonderful news!

[Teacher Terry]

Very happy for you. Cushings is a terrible disease.

[iris lilies]

Our dog had her ultrasound today. Good news! Her adrenals looked normal, so he feels that rules out Cushings. Everything looked good except for a narrowing of the neck of the gall bladder. So now the vet is thinking that area just needs cleaned out......which is what the drug Ursodiol does. So she'll be on that, plus amoxicillin, and a supplement that has milk thistle in it, that's supposed to be great for the liver. These drugs cost about $175.00! But....we're relieved it's not Cushings.
What was great, was that another vet who just does ultrasounds came in and did the test....so I feel we can trust the reading.

Our 9 year old Frenchie is having an ultrasound tomorrow. A couple things are suspected in her re-occurring urinary tract infection including Cushings' Disease.

[Francie]

This may mean absolutely nothing in your situation, but ... 15 or so years ago my Dear Husband had HIGHLY elevated liver enzymes -- WAY above normal. He had liver scans, etc. whatever they could think of to do, and nothing showed up. He was plenty active and energetic, but just wildly elevated liver enzymes. They couldn't figure out what to do about it other than keep a watch on it. Well, about nine years ago I had some allergy testing and turns out I'm "sensitive" to gluten ... so I was reading a book on gluten sensitivity and it said ... one sentence ... "elevated liver enzymes of unknown cause can be a gluten sensitivity". I wanted him to be tested, but he refused, and simply went off gluten. And guess what???!!! His liver enzyme levels have been totally normal ever since. He has his enzymes monitored regularly, and eats gluten when he feels like it (and he loves beer) but doesn't over-do it, and he's fine. One side effect: he's EVEN MORE active and energetic than he was before, and he was pretty hard to keep up with even then :D ... but even more so now :D ... (and he's 71) ...

I know this has probably has nothing to do with your dog, but still ...

[CathyA]

Good luck with your Frenchie IL!

Francie.......I have wondered about gluten. I have also wondered if other, less toxic things can cause our enzymes to fluctuate. Was just talking to DH last night.....since our dog didn't exhibit many signs of being ill (just drinking and peeing more), perhaps her enzymes would have eventually gone down on their own?? We "accidentally" found her liver enzymes elevated. One test would have been suspicious.......but her second lab test at another facility showed that it was still elevated.........but.........the other elevated enzymes (and bilirubin) were back to normal. Makes you wonder if we jumped the gun.
Oh well.....we chose the course of Denamarin, amoxicillin, and Ursodiol.........so we'll see how that does. I wonder if there are any gluten-free dog foods??
I think gluten is a lot less tolerated in everyone, than we think.

[Aqua Blue]

There are grain free dog foods, which is what I feed my dog. They would be gluten free.

[Teacher Terry]

IL: I really hope it is not Cushings. Dogs drink & pee a lot. They end up looking like a pot bellied pig. They blow up from the inside so gradually fluid is surrounding their lungs, heart, etc. We took a dog that had it pretty bad because his Mom no longer wanted him & he was so sweet. What actually worked the best for him was homeopathic meds instead of regular. We took him to a homeopathic vet when ours did not have a lot to offer. Eventually they just lay around because it uses too much energy to walk much. You also get to the point that you can't anesthetize them for any vet procedures because they won't survive it.