Food and elitism

[pinkytoe]

I am trying to bite my tongue over a matter being discussed on a neighborhood listserve that really has me p---ed. There is an expensive neighborhood adjacent to ours that is flush with mature pecan trees. This year has given us an exceptional crop so there are pecans everywhere - in the street, in yards, etc just going to waste. And yet...posters are upset about "those people, ie mostly Mexicans" who walk around and gather them. I understand the desire not to have strangers in your yard but the prevalent message is something like "Why would anyone pick up nuts off the street? Maybe they need money for Christmas or to fix their car?" I want so badly to respond that they are smarter and richer than you - they see the generous bounty of Nature providing an excellent "local" food source that costs $10 lb and up. They gather around as a family to crack them and make delicious things like pralines together. So I guess I am one of "those people" because I too gather nuts in the street and from my own trees. I am trying to justify their reactions by the fact that they probably aren't from here where gathering pecans at T'Giving is a decades old tradition.

[iris lilies]

ack! Free pecans in the street! I would SO be there picking them up.

[ToomuchStuff]

Don't think of it from your perspective, there may be more between the lines. Did someone come close to getting hit? Is it about safety? Or is this because someone saw someone eating something that a car had run over while picking it?
There is also naivety that people deal with. I remember a girl I knew who didn't put meat in the store with animals and slaughter. Ignorance is bliss for them and they don't like reality being thrust upon them.

[Gardenarian]

My husband is guilty of this. We always have way more citrus than we need, so we put the excess out in a box on the sidewalk. He is okay with the neighbors taking a few pieces at a time, but gets angry if some poor person takes whole bagful -he assumes they are going to sell them or something.
I don't see what difference it makes; we still have plenty to give away and every year some goes to waste, just rotting.

[bae]

ack! Free pecans in the street! I would SO be there picking them up.

Same here! What a treat!

We scavenge berries, mushrooms, apples, pears, figs, seaweed, clams, oysters, and half a dozen other such things. Makes for great eating, it is cheap, and fun.

[mtnlaurel]

Here is where I will insert one of my favorite Grandmother stories....
In her cranberry salad recipe (sweetly typed on a small index card) it calls for:
' pecans, as many as you can afford '
it warms my heart every year I get the recipe card out

It would make so much more sense to work longer to pay to have a crew of landscapers with gasoline powered backpack blowers gathering those nuts to be driven to a landfill (NOT!)

[mtnlaurel]

Pinkytoe - you are in TX right?
I'd bet money that some of those fancy folks go on & on slapping themselves on their backs about going on or contributing to Overseas Mission Trips and there right under their noses is the real work to be done... the whole thing in the Bible about leaving behind a certain percent of crops to be picked up by those in need (no Bible scholar here, but I do try to get the gist of things on occasion)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'd collect the pecans, or at least as much as I could eat just having them on hand (I may not do the whole gathering months worth of free pecans thing, because I know myself and they're as likely to be forgotten about as not. And I try not to take more than I will likely use even of free things.). But pecans for the near future, of course I'd gather them. Duh.


"Why would anyone pick up nuts off the street? Maybe they need money for Christmas or to fix their car?"

I think they fit the exact definition of conspicuous consumption, spending money for no other reason than to prove you can spend money. Maybe germophoic as well, omg nuts have fallen down on the ground! The ground! :laff:

[Teacher Terry]

I think it is great that they are not going to waste! The neighbors complaining are morons.

[bae]

I wonder how the neighbors feel about processing perfectly-good roadkill? :-)

[lessisbest]

Foraging for food is obviously beneath some people, which isn't in and of itself "wrong", I guess, just kinda' sad and rather "dog in the manger" of them, as a person who does a lot of foraging. In a by-gone era it was common to leave a portion of your crop to share with the poor. Years ago, farmers in our area would leave several rows of corn close to the road for anyone who wanted to pick it. In fact, Gleaner Laws were in effect at one time as a way to provide for the poor, and that was probably the teaching the farmers were brought up with and why they left the portion of the crop. The picture of "The Gleaners" in the bible in my Sunday School Classroom is still vivid in my mind, along with the lesson of sharing and giving it taught us.

Here's the scripture that went with that picture:
Leviticus 19:
9. And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
10. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger....

[sweetana3]

Different, but we are in Thailand and they are processing/drying rice on tarps in the street. guess that is one reason the first instruction is always clean the rice. The chickens just ran over the rice.

[Miss Cellane]

Or maybe they don't want "those people" in their streets.

You know, people who don't look like them. Or talk like them. Or dress like them.

[JaneV2.0]

On a visit to my SO's (Mexican) sister and BIL, they launched into a lengthy critique of some neighbors, (who happened to be Guanamian) and how they came by and picked some fruit off their trees in the parking and how awful it was...We just looked at each other. I guess they'd rather they went to waste. And besides, we used to pick Italian prunes off random trees on our walks, and blackberries when we found them. I remember gleaning chestnuts and walnuts as a child. Maybe they should have called a gleaner charity if they didn't want the Guamanians to have them. People, I swear...

[kib]

We actually have almost the opposite, a ... I guess you'd call it a gleaner hotline, in Tucson. If you know of free fruit or nuts in a public place or if you are OK with people coming and harvesting food from your property, there's a place you can register the area, this food is given to a local foodbank. There is a lot of 'decorative' citrus here that actually has delicious edible fruit. I'm currently eying my neighbor's grapefruit tree, as she seems to let the fruit fall uneaten every year ...

[Packy]

OP, Those Affluent Neighbors must be pretty limited in their life experiences and outlook! Here in 'Zurra, you have an abundance of Walnut Trees, growing everywhere. You also have companies that will buy unshelled walnuts, delivered to their place of business. The walnuts are valuable as food, and the shells have industrial uses, too. At the same time, property owners don't want them lying on the ground and decaying, getting caught in the mowers, etc. They are a nuisance. So, you also have lots of people--free lancers-- who will go out & pick them up. I guess it is good income for part-time or seasonal work. They are not immigrants, as a general rule. They develop their list of places, public and private, where they can go every year---sometimes taking the kids to help gather them. The farm supply places sell pick-up sticks for those who aren't as spry. At the Golf Course near the shop, they were advertising that members were welcome to come in and harvest the walnuts that were falling on the course. The bottom line is, I don't see any stigma attached around here to walnut-gathering; it's a dirty job, but at least someone is doing it! How do you like that?

[catherine]

OP, Those Affluent Neighbors must be pretty limited in their life experiences and outlook! Here in 'Zurra, you have an abundance of Walnut Trees, growing everywhere. You also have companies that will buy unshelled walnuts, delivered to their place of business.

So, we go from being able to take/glean walnuts off trees, OR you can go to Trader Joe's or other supermarkets to buy the walnuts, which are the same walnuts but somehow put in plastic wrappers with a company logo, and then we can buy them for lots of money per pound. Walnuts gleaned=BAAADDD. Walnuts marketed and sold in fancy plastic wrappers by corporations=GOOODDD.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have to admit in the past I have been guilty of this. I can remember during the boom when I was making decent money waiting tables, I looked down at people who grew food in their yards. Living in an Hispanic area, many of the neighbors grow food in their yards, even in the front yards. I used to think that yards were for ornamentation and even worse, for growing things that are difficult to grow in this desert climate zone to prove what a great gardener you are. I'm cringing to admit this but it is true nevertheless.

Then I ran across Simple Living and gradually started evaluating my overall life. And then of course the money evaporated waiting tables, especially with my living in a state and a city that was clobbered by the real estate fiasco. I realized that my attitude about growing food was kind of strange given my prior life experiences and what life had taught me overall so far - it was thinking that was out of place with my values.

Now I've got an orange tree in the front yard (though that was always there), a sour orange and a pomegranate on one side of the house, and a fig tree, two lime trees, a necatarine, and two peach trees in the back yard. This past summer I had a bumper crop of Armenian cucumber - something that shocked me as it thrives in the brutal heat and mugginess of a Phoenix summer (July and August and September can be very muggy here). I am about to plant winter appropriate veggies in the backyard and I now see yards as some ornamentation (nice to have flowers in the Spring) and much more I'm paying property taxes here, why can't I have my plot produce something for me? And without pesticides or chemical fertilizers. So color me much less elitist and now I'd be out foraging for the pecans myself.....Reminds me of when I worked at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon - there one forages for pine nuts, something that grows in the wild just south of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Very much a bummer that I was laid off in 2009 right before foraging season for pine nuts!

Side note - Walnuts of all things do quite well here if they are watered regularly and I know of people with mature walnut trees that become quite popular every Fall as the walnuts are ready to be picked.....Rob

[pinkytoe]

Another irony at least to me is how fancy pants people tout eating "local" when they get in the Range Rover and drive five miles to the farmer's market. It is so interesting how we view things differently. And Rob, I agree about being able to produce on your own patch of ground. I am going to try those cucumbers here next season. It doesn't make sense to pay taxes for grass and bushes.

[iris lilies]

Different, but we are in Thailand and they are processing/drying rice on tarps in the street. guess that is one reason the first instruction is always clean the rice. The chickens just ran over the rice.


hahahaha! Hope you are having fun in Thailand, I LOVE Thailand!

[iris lilies]

Well, I will say one has to work for those pecans and black walnuts, shelling them is hard. I used to live in southern New Mexico where they grow pecans and remember spending hours shelling the things one time. After that, I buy them shelled. It's like pitting cherries, takes so much time but for sour cherries it is SO worth it!

I also think of the natural dietary control of shelling nuts before eating them--it slows down the calorie consumption. If I buy shelled nuts , I can throw a lot of calories into my face. If I gather the nuts in their husks and use a nutcracker to dig out the nut, I would consume far less and exert calories in the gathering and shelling.

I think of my grandmother on her farm and previous generations. Their hands were always in a bowl, shelling and cleaning: peas, cherries, etc. That was their "sit down" resting work.

[awakenedsoul]

Great post, Rob! I can see both sides. I grow a lot of my own food. I use both the front and backyard. I think of it as "edible landscaping". It's turned out nicely. I get a lot of compliments on it. This year I gave out bags and bags of pomegranates and persimmons to several neighbors. I took the rest of the bumper crop to a local church that feeds the homeless. There was still plenty of fruit to fill my freezer. But, I don't like people coming into my yard and helping themselves without asking. I've seen people do that on my street. A large family pulled up in a pickup truck and started stripping my neighbor's apricot tree. It's planted in her front yard. Her next door neighbor stopped them and she put up a sign. It said "Do NOT pick the fruit!" I had to put up a fence and gate because there was a group of men who would sit in a circle in my driveway, socializing, smoking, and drinking beer. They had no boundaries. They acted like this was their house. (Before I moved in, it had been vacant for two years.) It was like they were squatting here. Now that I have two German shepherds, I don't have any problems.
There may be some history in this situation with the walnuts. Cultural differences can really create a clash.

[pinkytoe]

one has to work for those pecans and black walnuts
So true. It occurs to me that folks in that same neighborhood (as well as mine) pay people to do just about everything - maintain their yards and houses, watch their children, train their bodies to be sveldt, fix their houses, wash their cars...even hang their holiday lights or decorate their homes. I guess that leaves them more time to make more money to pay other people to do laborious things but that's another topic.

[kib]

So, we go from being able to take/glean walnuts off trees, OR you can go to Trader Joe's or other supermarkets to buy the walnuts, which are the same walnuts but somehow put in plastic wrappers with a company logo, and then we can buy them for lots of money per pound. Walnuts gleaned=BAAADDD. Walnuts marketed and sold in fancy plastic wrappers by corporations=GOOODDD.My tolerance is getting tired along with the rest of me. I spend a lot of time walking around crooning a mantra in my head: "People are idiots. People are idiots, people are idiots, yes, people are idiots." I know there's a lot more to the story, and my compassion and my intellect complain about my monofocused grumpy old lady part, but ... people are idiots. And the people who aren't idiots who have led everyone else to this place of idiocracy are even worse.

[gimmethesimplelife]

My tolerance is getting tired along with the rest of me. I spend a lot of time walking around crooning a mantra in my head: "People are idiots. People are idiots, people are idiots, yes, people are idiots." I know there's a lot more to the story, and my compassion and my intellect complain about my monofocused grumpy old lady part, but ... people are idiots. And the people who aren't idiots who have led everyone else to this place of idiocracy are even worse.LOL My mantra is along the lines of - There is no common sense, where is the common sense? Truly, what i at any rate consider common sense seems to be sorely lacking these days out there.....Rob

[kib]

Ok, that's a little nicer, I could go there. :-)

[ToomuchStuff]

LOL My mantra is along the lines of - There is no common sense, where is the common sense? Truly, what i at any rate consider common sense seems to be sorely lacking these days out there.....Rob

Oxymoron.
Some people learn from their (and sometimes others) mistakes, others just skate by.

[domestic goddess]

I'd be out there gathering them, too. Do the residents let the nuts fall and rot and buy them at the grocery? Not much caring what they thought of me, I'd answer anyone who asked me about it that I am not a wasteful person and I like clean streets. This is an area in which both traits of mine can align, and there will be a tasty result! I wouldn't be hoarding bushels of them, but I would certainly take some for my personal use.

[pinkytoe]

I walk a lot and know the virtues of every pecan tree, ie which have the best nuts. As the resdents leave them to rot, I fill my pockets little by little on my walks. By now, I have several grocery sacks full which I am slowly cracking and packaging for the freezer. Should keep us in pecans until next fall. I am very grateful for my neighbor's wastefulness:)

[jp1]

My last year in college we lived in a house with 3 avacado trees. Since there were FAR more avacados than 4 of us could possibly eat there were lots lying in the yard at any given time. Our next door neighbor, an older woman, asked if she could occasionally take a few and we told her to take all she wanted. As far as I know no one else took any of them but I would've been happy if they had, rather than letting them go to waste. While I was gone for Christmas it got down to 22 degrees and they all fell off the trees. One of my roommates collected enough to fill both crisper drawers in the fridge and we were eating them constantly for the next couple of months.

[Tiam]

I am trying to bite my tongue over a matter being discussed on a neighborhood listserve that really has me p---ed. There is an expensive neighborhood adjacent to ours that is flush with mature pecan trees. This year has given us an exceptional crop so there are pecans everywhere - in the street, in yards, etc just going to waste. And yet...posters are upset about "those people, ie mostly Mexicans" who walk around and gather them. I understand the desire not to have strangers in your yard but the prevalent message is something like "Why would anyone pick up nuts off the street? Maybe they need money for Christmas or to fix their car?" I want so badly to respond that they are smarter and richer than you - they see the generous bounty of Nature providing an excellent "local" food source that costs $10 lb and up. They gather around as a family to crack them and make delicious things like pralines together. So I guess I am one of "those people" because I too gather nuts in the street and from my own trees. I am trying to justify their reactions by the fact that they probably aren't from here where gathering pecans at T'Giving is a decades old tradition.

Elitism is a good word for it. Long ago are the times where people had to worry about food. Picking up perfectly good food off the street is somehow unheard of. The "Mexicans" are more in touch with where food come from than some.

[JaneV2.0]

Elitism is a good word for it. Long ago are the times where people had to worry about food. Picking up perfectly good food off the street is somehow unheard of. The "Mexicans" are more in touch with where food come from than some.

Some "Mexicans," anyway...;)

[iris lilies]

Some "Mexicans," anyway...;)

So your isn't? haha.

[JaneV2.0]

He is--his sister and her husband weren't so much. :~)

He was between jobs and took a job in the fields and he said it nearly killed him--that the other farm workers saved his bacon more than once until he toughened up. Fortunately he found a job at McDonnell Douglas, but the experience left him with a deep appreciation for the people who provided his food. And he grew up in a family that raised much of their own produce, as well as rabbits and chickens.

[MaryHu]

Several years ago someone in our town started "Backyard Harvest" to collect unwanted fruits and veggies from home gardens. You call them and they come and do the work of harvesting and deliver to the food bank. Sometimes I wish I had calling cards to leave on front doors of the people who still don't seem to know about this service and have fruit rotting on the ground.

This reminds me of something I read a few years ago on an internet gardening forum. It was about growing pawpaw trees. These trees look kind of tropical and produce large fruit that tastes kind of like bananas but you can grow them very far north; think Michigan and Wisconsin. So a guy writes in saying he grows these and how well they do in his northern climate but he needs advice on how to keep the deer and squirrels from eating the fruit. I thought "Yeah that would be a bummer to grow all that nice fruit and lose it to animals." A few sentences later however he's complaining about the mess the fruit makes on the ground! Turns out he was growing it strictly as an ornamental and had never even tried the fruit! So if you don't want the fruit shouldn't you be happy if the animals eat it? It kills me when people buy fruit producing trees/bushes to use as ornamentals and then get mad about them producing fruit! I think pomegranates are the most common of this category.

I would be right out there in the street picking up pecans with them. I might even go knock on the door and ask if it's ok to pick them from the yard.

[catherine]

Funny story, MaryHu. If he's the type that doesn't eat the plentiful fruit on his own tree, he's probably the type that just hates the idea of sharing his yard with deer and squirrels. Probably has a fake Christmas tree and a big deck that he never sits on because of the flies and mosquitos.

[seedycharacter]

I feel sad for privileged folks sometimes who seem to be overly focused on their objects--wanting to possess them even if they won't be using them. A sense of scarcity in the face of wealth.

Maybe wealthy folks don't like the idea of literally "stooping" to pick up the nuts. Perhaps that is associated with menial, poverty class work for them.

I like MaryHu's idea about getting a gleaning card made up. One could easily improvise and leave a note on the door or mailbox and offer to harvest the fruit/nuts, leave some for the owners and donate the rest to the local food bank or neighbors or whatever.

This cool organization, Village Harvest, is set up to facilitate distributing backyard surplus. http://www.villageharvest.org/harvestingdirectory

I won't go into anyone's yard but if pecans were falling down in the street I would be filling every pocket I owned and no doubt risking life and limb darting into the street.

[catherine]

I feel sad for privileged folks sometimes who seem to be overly focused on their objects--wanting to possess them even if they won't be using them. A sense of scarcity in the face of wealth.

Maybe wealthy folks don't like the idea of literally "stooping" to pick up the nuts. Perhaps that is associated with menial, poverty class work for them.


Yes, it's another example how our cultural thinking has gotten so convoluted in the face of "civilization" They think it's either gross or stealing to pick up stuff that's going to go to waste off the ground, but where did we come from? That's how human beings got their food before agriculture came about on a few thousand years ago, and many people are still doing it. But we prefer to own, sanitize, box, chemically preserve, and make a profit from food. That's what food has come to mean. It's crazy.

It reminds me of my mother-in-law and her friends who thought it was so disgusting for me to breastfeed my kids rather than buy formula. One of her friends said I was like acting like a cow. I'm thinking, it's more like I'm acting like a human, but I'll take "cow" too--over expensive, highly marketed and advertised, inferior nutrition for my baby. But that's what marketing does. It messes with our brains until what's good is bad and what's bad is good so that we lose and the corporations gain.