View Full Version : Disappointed in DS2
We just got from visiting DS2 and DIL. I love my son very much, but we have big differences. For instance, he's a right-wing republican. I can't believe I gave birth to him when I hear some of his views. But, I can let it go because everyone is different. My disappointment comes from his elitist attitude. I can't believe how he looks down on people. He has a good job and makes plenty of money, but the attitude of "I'm better than them" drives me nuts. For instance, he won't go to a certain grocery store because "low life's go there". I insisted we go there because prices were way cheaper. When we got there, it was mostly older people and kids picking up lunch from the deli. And the staff was very nice. So I don't get it. Is it because he lives in CA? I might also mention he's retired military.
You have every right not to like his views. Just as his of yours I imagine. I am actually very surprised how far apart on many topics my sons and I are. Just as my folks were and are of mine.
rodeosweetheart
12-6-14, 1:08pm
Yes, me, too. I just internally have decided not to discuss certain things where we are far apart, to keep the peace.
But it is hard not to see that kind of judgmental harshness and not react when it is someone you love.
Gardenarian
12-6-14, 3:18pm
Not my part of California! Though we're all influenced by the values of the people around us. I'm sure the military had something to do with it. I'll bet he softens up with time.
It happens all the time. A relative of mine was a diehard atheist; used to rail all the time about "religionists." Their kids were all disinterested in religion, as were most of us on that side of the family. Out of curiosity, I Googled the grandchildren--ha! One of them is a dedicated, testifying, proselytizing Christian. Where did that gene come from? The Alex P. Keaton phenomenon. From a distance, people are endlessly fascinating.
Personally, if I had an offspring, I would let him know I was disappointed in his judgmental, mean-spirited attitude. As gently as possible. Maybe he would take your words seriously, and consider them. I would like to think that time and experience would soften his heart, but you can't always count on that.
There are lots of quirks in other people I can take in stride, but meanness is a deal-breaker for me.
Jane: I definitely gave him my opinion on this elitist attitude. In no uncertain words.
Gardenarian
12-8-14, 4:31pm
Jane: I definitely gave him my opinion on this elitist attitude. In no uncertain words.
Good for you! There are times to keep the peace, and times to speak out.
domestic goddess
12-9-14, 1:27am
I am frequently surprised by the intolerance of the younger generation. My dd and I frequently don't agree. She has adopted many of the viewpoints of dsil, and sometimes I am just shocked when hearing those words come out of her mouth. I think it is especially hard for those of us who are "aging hippies" to hear our offspring make really conservative, or mean-spirited remarks. I often think "she didn't learn THAT from her dad or me", and I do know where it comes from. Well, it is her life, and it is probably easier to agree with dsil than to fight constantly with him, so I just try to keep out of politically charged discussions. There are some things that I just can't tolerate, and I can be pretty verbal and blunt about them. In fact, she has unfriended me on facebook! Oh, well, I did the best I could. If it didn't take, I'm not entirely sure it is all my fault. She is an adult now, and free to make her own decisions. But I won't tolerate racist or mean-spirited comments. If I have to hear that garbage, then she gets to hear my protest. But sometimes I am not as good as I should be at avoiding conflict there. She knows what I find to be hot button topics, and no one knows how to bait me better than my own child!
ToomuchStuff
12-9-14, 2:32am
So your disappointed in him and he is disappointed in others.:confused:
Sounds like he is as judgemental, but maybe hasn't learned to let things go. Have you since this seems like a vent thread?
weird, i wonder where he learned his elitism and judgemental attitude from....
I get it, I was at my brothers for Thanksgiving. We were talking about my daughters small attempt to grow a pot plant in the house and how I didn't know how to get rid of it since I was worried about working in schools. His answer was to throw it into a Mexican's back yard. I was too shocked to know what to say, but I think the silence was obvious since it stopped the conversation.
The thing about it, we were not raised like that at all. My parents never made rascist comments and pretty much kept us as kids away from people who did (in the 70's remember). So what happened? I don't know, he just lives in an environment that it is okay.
The harder thing is the result from the movie theater shooting, and the reason I don't participate in gun conversations. After it my kids all went more towards increased gun availability rather than towards more gun control. They are adults and my daughter was there, so they are entitled to their own opinion, but that was shocking to me.
I think sometimes our children's beliefs is the pendulum swinging in the the opposite direction as ours did...........philosophically speaking.
(Did that make any sense???) haha
What I'm trying to say is that it seems like some children take on their parent's beliefs, while others do the opposite. Maybe it becomes their way of being their own person??
Just continue loving DS2, yet gently bringing up the things about his behavior/beliefs that bother you.
rodeosweetheart
12-9-14, 8:29am
A bit off topic, as to the plant, Zoe, I would just cut it up with scissors and put it into a compost bucket with a lot of other plants and water. We compost our food wastes and paper and coffee grounds and there is always a big disgusting slurry going and one more plant would be instantly indistinguishable.
Then plan something else in the pot and voila, you have no problem.
Miss Cellane
12-9-14, 9:20am
My brother is a right-wing Republican--I think a lot of active and former military are. It seems to go with the job.
We just have agreed to disagree on a lot of issues. We mostly talk about his adorable children (we agree on that, at least!), movies, tv, books, snow, and his lastest work on his PhD.
It's interesting, though. He used to have very, very strong views on people who took financial aid from the government. Then he had a child with disabilities and pretty much has had to use Medicaid to help fund the home nurses and wheelchairs and such. It was that, or divert every available resource to the care of one child--and he has three children. Even he could see that just wasn't fair to the other two kids. They would have had no "extras"--no books, no toys, no college fund, two working parents working multiple jobs. He has changed his mind about some matters and is slightly more understanding of why some people need more help than others.
There's a Facebook site I subscribe to. It's actually a wonderful site--very inspiring stories and messages about environmentalism, new economy, etc. (He's anti-capitalism, anti-money, you name it) I liked it so much I signed up for the newsletters he sends his "fans."
So his latest update was his whole story about why he hadn't written lately, and it had to do with moving out to CA to live in an apartment he inherited from his uncle. His parents are still in CA--in fact, his father was mayor of SF at one time. He has seriously rebelled against what his parents stand for in terms of money, class, aspirations, etc.
Apparently, this move did not work out because of the clash of ideals between his parents and him/wife. I admire some the way he thinks, but as I read between the lines, all I could think of was spoiled child syndrome. It was so easy for him to abjure money--he had a $100,000 degree that his father paid for. He had a great job for a while where he was able to put away some money but then he quit, because of the "evil corporation" and from that time he lived off of savings, and then he put his life on credit cards and maxed them out, all the while refusing to earn money because earning money is not the kind of relationship he wants to have with money. His parents have cut him off, and have limited his access to his inheritance, probably rightfully trying to protect their son.
Now he's desperate and trying to figure out how to get by in life, and I just want say, make it easy on yourself--get a job. Work for mom-and-pop place. Do something. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Until we get to Utopia we have to live in this world.
I see a lot of things wrong with his attitude--and it's almost the 180 degree image of your son, Glo. Same rigid thinking in different views. Rigid thinking can take many forms, and it is so frustrating to see it in action. However, the beauty of maturity when it comes about is it dissolves that kind of thinking, so just have patience and trust in that over time, his own life experiences, and the example you have set for him, will soften his heart.
To keep the peace within our family on different viewpoints, we just avoid those topics. DH has some rigid thinking that drives me nuts and he knows it but has learned to cool it around me. I told him he should find a group of similar thinkers (old farts) cause I don't want to listen to it. There are so many modes of communication to sway people these days into belief systems that aren't doing anyone any good.
Circumstances do truly affect things. My brother really has been able to control things (except the house fire) so he does expect that. His way of raising kids is incredibly strict. It is hard to be the oldest and honestly a bit of a black sheep, and then not have my kids uphold a standard the family would appreciate. It is okay because my kids are from a divorced family, poor babies, so we have an excuse. My mom has not had a problem criticizing my home, my way of raising my children, my work (I was supposed to wait for a magic fairy because my kids 'needed me'). Sometimes she will comment about my brother's strictness but most of the time it seems the rest of the family is more comfortable with his style than mine. His style is to remove all toys from the bedroom when a child does not clean up, give them 5, then 10, and take them away if they do not clean up. I have family meetings and we write menus cooperatively, have feelings that can be expressed. But bottom line is that I have needed help and he hasn't, I have not proven the validity of my parenting style because my kids are not in college and instead working basic jobs.
So your disappointed in him and he is disappointed in others.:confused:
Sounds like he is as judgemental, but maybe hasn't learned to let things go. Have you since this seems like a vent thread?
Disappointment suggests that someone has failed to live up to a certain standard (here, the parents'). That doesn't seem to apply to DS2's attitude toward others, which seems to be one of general contempt. Two different emotions.
ApatheticNoMore
12-9-14, 12:24pm
weird, i wonder where he learned his elitism and judgemental attitude from....
equivocation on judgmental attitude - I don't think the parents necessarily have a judgmental attitude, I can't jump to concluding it anyway. HOWEVER any belief pushed too dogmatically if it is (a particular political ideology, a religion or there-is-no-religion) has a chance of generating rebellion, maybe even more so if it's a personality type (such as in the meyers briggs type sense) that is relentlessly pushed rather than an ideology, and one isn't true to type. Rebellion can be then piled on to. Your childhood sucked and your scarred for life? Fight all the more with your parents ideology, bring your baggage to the war. Your angry your parents generation had it easier economically? (they of course probably did but won't admit it). Bring it to the war. Etc.
think sometimes our children's beliefs is the pendulum swinging in the the opposite direction as ours did...........philosophically speaking. (Did that make any sense???) haha. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like some children take on their parent's beliefs, while others do the opposite. Maybe it becomes their way of being their own person??
yes
I can't say whether one matures out of a particular ideology or not, but one may mature into less reactivity by which I mean less processing things through the lenses of rebellion at mommy and daddy etc.. But of course the most totalitarian parents may preclude even these stupid rebellions in the first place, but who wants to be them?
ToomuchStuff
12-9-14, 2:33pm
Disappointment suggests that someone has failed to live up to a certain standard (here, the parents'). That doesn't seem to apply to DS2's attitude toward others, which seems to be one of general contempt. Two different emotions.
Sister emotions IMHE, when one has contempt one tends to think others haven't lived up to their potential or responsibilities.
The original poster make me think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, but maybe the opposite side (still judgemental).
That's an interesting take on it. Or maybe he's never considered the "others" as having any potential to live up to.
ToomuchStuff
12-9-14, 2:58pm
That's an interesting take on it. Or maybe he's never considered the "others" as having any potential to live up to.
And without him here, to explain his side or views, we are getting a biased one sided account, that someone is asking us to make a judgement on. No way for me to view your supposition as any more accurate then others.:+1:
If we required all members present, the Family Matters and Relationships would consist only of cobwebs and crickets. I trust the OP to be recounting events as she sees them, but it would be interesting to hear her DS's explanation of how he relates to various people.
I guess I come here to share, to vent, sometimes to seek advice but mostly to just share. It often saves me from saying the wrong thing to the wrong person and causing harm. As a parent we honestly do have expectations for our kids, we have been with them their entire lives so it is natural to assume certain things we did may show in their behavior. It is baffling to me that none of my kids are going to college when everyone else in the family except one cousin has a BA or a MA, and it will probably continue to confuse me. This is my safe place to get that out without being crappy to my kids, so I take the OP's post in that light. Talking about it, not necessarily expecting an answer or a judgement back. Sharing it here should be safe IMHO.
I grew up hearing from my mother how disappointed she and my father were in me. I was disappointed in them too, partly because of hearing about that a lot, but one didn't say that at that time and place. The basic thing was that we were different.
Teacher Terry
12-18-14, 2:02pm
This should be a place to share without being judged. My kids were all good students but did not go to college after HS. I kept my disappointment to myself or just told close friends. Eventually they went in their own time so just realize that they may choose to go later.
catherine
12-18-14, 2:57pm
This should be a place to share without being judged. My kids were all good students but did not go to college after HS. I kept my disappointment to myself or just told close friends. Eventually they went in their own time so just realize that they may choose to go later.
This is truly not to judge, because a couple of my kids have definitely walked to the beat of their own drum, but I truly can't say I would use the word "disappointed" to describe my reaction. If you're disappointed, it means they haven't lived up to your expectations. But what expectations are you allowed to have as a parent? Do they owe you fulfillment of your dream vs. their dream? I don't think so.
I admit that there's a line that's crossed when they pick up self-destructive patterns of behavior, and then, I might use disappointed, but I'd be more likely to be "worried sick." Not going to college doesn't worry or disappoint me. Being Republican doesn't worry or disappoint me. Marrying the "wrong" person would worry me. Being disrespectful, mean, or nasty would disappoint me. My kids have told me that the worst punishment they could get was from me was when I would express my disappointment with them.
As corny as it might sound, I still rely on Kahlil Gibran's poem On Children (http://www.katsandogz.com/onchildren.html):
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
It's not always easy to live up to this, understandably.
Teacher Terry
12-18-14, 3:07pm
I love that poem. However, I was very disappointed at the time but they never knew. However, years later one has a graduate degree, one a BA & one a certificate from a trade school so they all have found there own path just like I did. I am sure there were times my parents were disappointed but like me they kept it to themselves & no one ever knew.
catherine
12-18-14, 3:15pm
I love that poem. However, I was very disappointed at the time but they never knew. However, years later one has a graduate degree, one a BA & one a certificate from a trade school so they all have found there own path just like I did. I am sure there were times my parents were disappointed but like me they kept it to themselves & no one ever knew.
That's good of you to let them find their own path and keep your feelings to yourself in this case… often it does work out, despite us! I have a high school drop-out son who is now a lawyer. But honestly, if he were happy teaching golf as he was before he got the "school bug" and had never gone to college, that would have been A-OK with me.
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