MMM: It's not about the money

[catherine]

I know there are a lot of Mr. Money Mustache fans here. I just had a chance to read one of his recent blog posts, and I really liked it.

It's the one about his being interviewed by New York Magazine and also for a personal finance podcast and he talks about how they both missed the point about why he doesn't spend money. I loved his explanation, and it's the crux of simple living personal finance.

Anyway, some of you have probably already read it, but here's the link (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/11/23/not-extreme-frugality/), and here are the quotes that he bolded in the blog post:


Learning to separate “happiness” from “spending money” is the quickest and most reliable way to a better life.

The side-effect of this is that your life will become much less expensive and you will therefore become much wealthier very quickly.

And here's my personal favorite:


But it’s not about the money, and as long as you think it is about the money, you’re still f***ed.

So, what are the ways in which living an abundant life is "not about the money" for you?

[cindycindy]

For starters, it's about personal freedom. I was just able to leave a soul sucking job and take a new position that while it had a 25% pay cut, is a stimulating job that I love with a good group of people. Years of frugal simple living which resulted in a no debt and low monthly carrying cost (in which I have not felt the least bit deprived) enabled me to have the personal freedom to make this choice.

[razz]

I like CindyCindy's post but for me, it is about peace of mind and living in harmony with your values at the pace of life that you choose.

[flowerseverywhere]

What I love about these ideas is they go so against the media brainwashing. Every day we hear how students are being crushed by student loans, how people aren't saving enough for retirement and how we "need" a new car, new clothes or food prepared outside the home. There are few places we hear the simple living message.

You can choose to forgo cable TV, eat simply at home , walk or bike more, and so on which increases the quality of your life as it is immeasurably better for your physical, mental and financial health. A life full of a abundance does not translate to a life full of junk and crappy food.

[rodeosweetheart]

I really like this topic and the responses so far. This reminds me of what I have found through working with debt in my life--that debt is a money behavior that is a symptom of some other problem. So it's not about the money in the sense that if you don't get to the underlying issues, you are still on auto pilot with money and thus finding problems in that area.

Also reminds me of what Dave Ramsey says about why you pay the smallest debt first in debt snowball, because if money were all logic, then we would not have the problems we have with it. So MMM suggestion about separating money from happiness/life satisfaction is a good one, and exactly what previous posters are saying.

[mtnlaurel]

For me, I like to do what I like to do and YMOYL concepts have allowed me to do that for the most part (while Living Life on Life's Terms)

When I read in YMOYL about expending Life Energy and its' relation to Money - it was like hitting the slots in my brain..... ding, ding, ding, ding.

At it's core it's about being brutally honest with oneself.
It just fits with other emotional, social, spiritual things I'm trying to do.

I was essentially raised by my Grandmother and she had a very beautiful life on not much $ and was a great role model for managing one's affairs.

Pursuing this path has gotten my family through some tough times that we did NOT see coming down the pike.

[pinkytoe]

I am constantly amazed at how complicated people make their lives by trying to keep up with cultural expectations. Stress, debt, time constraints can all be halved or more by living simply. It's like "duh" but so many keep banging their head against the wall trying to keep up. I think when you slow down and live simply, you experience the inherent beauty in everyday life which has little to do with money beyond the basics.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't think I am at the point of being able to separate spending money from happiness er ..... self-fulfillment. I still seem to have a strong inclination to see money as primarily a tool for self-development though not the most important tool. Like if you spend money on say music lessons and with practice get good enough to join a choir or something and that's what you wanted, isn't that success? Not assuming any pay coming from it, isn't it success?

I've never been particularly materialistic as such, I'm far too much in my head to be I think. Occasionally some materialistic obsession, buying stuff as in capital Stuff, inanimate things you can touch, will capture me, I usefully just have to give in to the obsession all the while realizing I'm partly crazy to be so obsessed, that's about how the obsession feels, and vowing never to go on websites selling pretty stuff again. But materialism is mostly besides the point. To the degree where obvious things comes as a revelation to me: like that dressing the part might actually help with success, it comes as a revelation - fwiw I have always dressed with the average of any workplace pretty much, it's not like I stand out in badness, I mean above and beyond that. So it's not materialism that is the problem - well the problem I'm defining here is still seeing money as a tool for self-fulfillment primarily.

[Gardenarian]

Thanks for posting - I kind of forgot about MMM.
Yes, money for freedom, not for stuff. So you can define yourself by the things you do and believe in and work for, and not by what you own.

I also found the link to his article on AWD and snow tires extremely helpful!

[awakenedsoul]

I don't really care for the MMM forum. I tried it a couple of times, but so many people there sounded so angry to me. All that competing over who has a better degree in engineering... Plus, I don't really connect with the blog posts because of the swearing. There's just something about the tone there...(all that "bad assity",) that turns me off.

They also seem really dogmatic about the biking instead of driving thing. I'm car free right now, and it is much cheaper, but it's difficult at times. After having my bike accident, I would never put kids in a bike trailer. I'd use a car.

But, he's very popular and very successful. Many people resonate with him. I agree that it's not always about the money. Reminds me of the Oprah saying that it's not about the food. But, it sort of is. Oprah keeps bags and bags of chips in her trunk, I keep jumper cables and a spare tire in mine. Many people who don't have money are overspending. They also could be underearning. (I know all about that!) Louise Hay says that debt is an addiction. I didn't understand that when I had cc debt, but now I do. (self sabotage.) Suze Orman calls it "standing in you truth". Going on a cash basis brought that lesson home for me.

How people spend their money is fascinating to me. I find financial problems to be especially interesting and revealing...I had them myself, and really was in denial. I didn't see where I was going wrong at the time.

[SteveinMN]

So, what are the ways in which living an abundant life is "not about the money" for you?
I think the turning point for us was realizing that we were not getting out of our lives what we were paying for them. I used to dread Sunday nights because that meant going back to the Sisyphean Circus at work on Monday morning. DW had a hard time dealing with her medical wonder* of a boss but when we figured out she could move to a lower-paying job and still meet our expenses, suddenly her boss was easier to deal with. It helps that we're pretty well set for retirement, so when DW hits 30 years at work, she's outta there without worrying if we can pay the bills.

Not having the money has meant recalibrating our expectations. We go out to eat so rarely now that it's an event even if the restaurant isn't fancy, so we enjoy a dinner out without having to spend lots money to top previous dinners. We didn't trap ourselves in the big-house = status notion, so when we move out of this house, possible bubble excepted, we should have plenty of money to move someplace without snow shoveling or yardwork. And a smaller house is fine: it costs less to heat and keep up and it discourages piles of stuff that you don't use because it's stored away. We've become more aware of things like a pretty sunset or the hoarfrost on the trees that DW saw on her way in to work yesterday. They're free!

When we were kids, we didn't care whose logo was on the backside of our jeans. We didn't need $500 mobile phones or computers; a red wagon or bike (even a used one) was a ticket to freedom. It's a shame so many adults grow out of that...



* medical wonder: no spine, no gut

[rosarugosa]

I really like MMM's articles about the philosophical side of frugality/simple living. Sometimes I find him quite brilliant. However, I still have no intention of getting a bicycle.

[rosarugosa]

Steve: You have such a way with words, "the Sisyphean Circus at work ," I love it. Luckily, my job isn't nearly that bad (at least most of the time). :)
Awakened: I love the profanity, so I guess we all have our own preferences. I think it was great that he could tell Chase to f**k off when they told him he needed to cease the profanity if he wanted to keep the affiliate links for their cards on his site. He apparently gave up a pile of money by doing that, and it was a great example of how financial independence gives you freedom.
I don't have an engineering degree, and I'm more than 20 years too late to retire at 35, but I can take what I find useful and shrug off the rest. He did a wonderful post about the great outdoors and all the free fun it can give you, and there have been some others that really clicked for me.

[Blackdog Lin]

His overall philosophy in this case is too true and too correct. It's not about the money, it's about doing and enjoying all the life you can without the money. Well, with minimal amounts of the money. Something all of us on this forum should be able to appreciate. Simple(r) living.

I like the guy and enjoy his writings. And he seems to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. More power to him.

[iris lilies]

Mr. Money Mustache is for Gen X and Gen y what Joe Dominguez was for Boomers.

I don't even read his MMM blogs, I just like the rock 'n roll energy of those MMM forums.

[awakenedsoul]

Yeah, like attracts like. I love Suze Orman, and a lot of people can't stand her. MMM is very successful; I just feel miserable when I'm around those people and that language. To each his own...

[catherine]

Yeah, like attracts like. I love Suze Orman, and a lot of people can't stand her. MMM is very successful; I just feel miserable when I'm around those people and that language. To each his own...

I don't curse IRL, but I think his attitude is fun. Dave Ramsey doesn't curse but he can be offensive with his no-nonsense style and I love him. I have to say, I do not like Suze Orman as much with the gratuitous "girlfriend" chatter. She's OK, but her style grates on me. Like attracts like, but I also think often we're attracted to what's lacking in ourselves. I'm nothing like DR or MMM, but they really appeal to me.

[rodeosweetheart]

The MMM tone seems very competitive to me, and always pointing out how stupid everyone is. That is too much like my childhood, I guess, so I don't spend time there.

I can ignore the DR bombast because his advice is really good for me, and I like his emphasis on giving money away, getting money so that we can give more. That appeals to me. I like Suze but I don't like how in-the-system her advice is.

My favorite money/life readings would have to be YMOYL and Amy D--Amy D was very much like MMM but not competitive or abrasive. I guess MMM strikes me as abrasive, so I guess I am with Awakened on that front.

[pinkytoe]

I appreciate MMM's fearlessness and the fact that a younger person in this consumer society promotes a non-consumerist lifestyle is music to my ears. Sometimes though his tone seems "elitist" or conflagratory to me; I don't think he gets it yet that life can throw you big surprises no matter how prepared or in control you think you are.

[iris lilies]

...So, what are the ways in which living an abundant life is "not about the money" for you?

I've always liked the challenge of using creativity, not cash, to fund things I enjoy in life. It is true that the best things in life are free, but it's also true that money fuels those things such as family get togethers, playing with pets, enjoying friends at dinner, etc.

So it's the creativity challenge that most interests me.

Fortunately at this stage of life I've got enough money to do what I want to do but not crazy amounts, so I still have to be creative.

[iris lilies]

I appreciate MMM's fearlessness and the fact that a younger person in this consumer society promotes a non-consumerist lifestyle is music to my ears. Sometimes though his tone seems "elitist" or conflagratory to me; I don't think he gets it yet that life can throw you big surprises no matter how prepared or in control you think you are.

His point of view may be what you call "elitist" because it assumes that people in his situation (born with his opportunities) can succeed in the way he did.

I agree with that, so I am also elitist. Whatever.

The guru MMM does understand and fully appreciate his life capital, and that's why he's impatient with those who squander their own life capital and then become complainey-pants about their finances.

[flowerseverywhere]

Mr. Money Mustache is for Gen X and Gen y what Joe Dominguez was for Boomers.

I don't even read his MMM blogs, I just like the rock 'n roll energy of those MMM forums.

what I like is that they call it like it is. You have hair on fire debt? Ditch the cellphone, cable, car, eating out, nail salons, gyms and so on. So many people today feel so entitled, like they should have everything whether or not they can afford it and if they can't afford it the government owes them. The MMM attitude is live way below your means, quit complaining and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Some people don't like that. There are cases (illness for example) where you really get in a pinch, but by preparing during the good times the bad times can be much less bad.

[pinkytoe]

His point of view may be what you call "elitist" because it assumes that people in his situation (born with his opportunities) can succeed in the way he did.
Perhaps the word I need to use is cavilier - riding a bike everywhere is great if you are able, but there are folks who can't for various reasons and I rarely hear him offer alternatives. But then his audience is young and fit primarily. In any case, I am glad that he is there for those who pikc up on his message.

[flowerseverywhere]

Perhaps the word I need to use is cavilier - riding a bike everywhere is great if you are able, but there are folks who can't for various reasons and I rarely hear him offer alternatives. But then his audience is young and fit primarily. In any case, I am glad that he is there for those who pikc up on his message.
Excellent point. What about carpooling. I used to work with a guy with a stay at home wife and one car. He would go to the bus stop near his house and if one of us could we would pick him up there. Otherwise he would take the bus. Now the employees have the option to work at home up to two days a week. Sometimes alternatives can be worked out. I certainly could not have biked through the 200 inches of snow that fell each season. However, three of us women did carpool

[rosarugosa]

Pinkytoe: I agree there's a failure to acknowledge things such as an ALS or MS diagnosis, or getting hit by a bus which can befall even the most prudent. But I do still find a lot of good food for thought there.
I also agree with IL and FE that the message to take control, quit whining, do what is necessary and face reality is an excellent one.

[bekkilyn]

Heh, if I were to ride a bike around here, I'd likely be run over in less than a week. Our "bike lanes" consist of sporadic lines painted about 12" on the side of narrow two-way roads, and if someone is feeling extra generous, there might be a "share the road" sign somewhere in the vicinity. I think I'll stick with being frugal using less life-threatening methods. :)

[Teacher Terry]

In general I enjoy the blogs & forum. He is a bit of showman by going overboard but that is how he gets attention & I am okay with that. I also am fine with the cussing. Sometimes people get very annoying but then I stop reading the thread.

[softweave]

I also found the link to his article on AWD and snow tires extremely helpful!

Me too. I just installed a TireRack "winter package" on my FWD car for an upcoming trip to western Massachusetts over New Years. It felt wonderful to have the money to consciously spend on increased safety.

[SteveinMN]

The MMM tone seems very competitive to me, and always pointing out how stupid everyone is. That is too much like my childhood, I guess, so I don't spend time there.
I find the competition to achieve maximum "badassity" a turn-off as well -- and I did not live childhood in can-you-top-this competition with my siblings.

I like the support and encouragement in posts like the frugals thread here. I don't get even entertainment value out of the "You spend $5 a month on cell phones? Facepunch!! You're throwing away money! Only worthless weaklings need to be accessible away from home" 'tude.

[bekkilyn]

I've been reading some of the MMM posts in the forums over there and am also not very fond of the "maximum badassity" competition myself. I also seem to see a large lack of empathy for people who have not been as fortunate, intelligent, and/or advantaged as some of the posters on some of those threads. I do understand that people are proud of what they've achieved, and rightfully so, but they also didn't achieve it in a vacuum, so the amount of gloating over the "stupid people" kind of bothers me. (Not implying that MMM himself is doing these things mind you.) Nevertheless, it is a good resource and I think people can get a lot out of it if they can wade past the head butting and badditudes. The overall message of the site isn't just about money, but about positive lifestyle changes.

I still prefer this forum though!

[JaneV2.0]

I've never been there, and have no desire to visit--I know the basics of frugality, even if I pick and choose which basics I use. Set the thermostat at 60 and wear layers, you betcha! Eat nothing but beans and rice and wash my hair with soda and vinegar, no thanks. I find the uber-competitive, ultra-confrontational tone of just about everyone these days beyond tiresome, and the smug self-congratulation that seems to accompany it repulsive, which is an added incentive to pass MMM by.

[iris lilies]

I've never been there, and have no desire to visit--I know the basics of frugality, even if I pick and choose which basics I use. Set the thermostat at 60 and wear layers, you betcha! Eat nothing but beans and rice and wash my hair with soda and vinegar, no thanks. I find the uber-competitive, ultra-confrontational tone of just about everyone these days beyond tiresome, and the smug self-congratulation that seems to accompany it repulsive, which is an added incentive to pass MMM by.

But their youthful enthusiasm is engaging. This website is very much "been there, done that" and we don't talk about much that is new.

[JaneV2.0]

But their youthful enthusiasm is engaging. This website is very much "been there, done that" and we don't talk about much that is new.

I do like youthful enthusiasm, as long as it's constructive--and the young sprouts will be well-served by a generous helping of "this is why frugality pays off." Especially in this fiscal climate.

[flowerseverywhere]

It appeals to the younger set. With all the tweeting, facebook etc, there is a whole new fashion in communication.

There is so much disrespect for the President, congress and the senate for instance, as well as a total disrespect for celebrity privacy it has certainly spilled over into daily life. I have seen really awful and disrespectful things posted even here. We calmly read the news of yet another shooting or atrocities done to women by the Islamic state, or police violence and it fails to move us. The in your face style is what many young people are used to. Times they are a changing.

[kib]

I like a challenge. To me, listening to bragging re 'stupid people' is sort of motivating; it makes me look for ways in which perhaps I'm being stupid myself and could do better. I don't really care about the bragger's success (or arrogance), I care more about discovering mistakes I don't want to make.

Funny about the cursing, even though I keep a lid on it most of the time, MMM was like coming into a room where I could finally take off my too-tight shoes and my too-tight hat.

[awakenedsoul]

It's definitely popular with a lot of people. I did really enjoy the threads on living car free. I just don't think that cars are evil and people that own them are stupid or wasting money. For most people where I live, a car is a necessity.

As I've gotten older, I've seen what can go wrong for hard working, responsible people. We're not as "in control" as we think. I feel fortunate now that I haven't become ill, been in a bad accident, or lost a lot of money in a small business or in the stock market.

It also seems like some of the people on that forum are kind of cocky about their net worth. To me, it's like they think they have SO much money, when I don't see it that way. I agree that they're doing very well, and it's admirable. I just hear a lot of inflated egos over there. But, I have a different situation. I've been born into much more fortunate circumstances than most people. I was raised in a family where you inherit money, and you don't spend it. You protect it for the next generation. That gives you a lot more of a safety net and a sense of security. You still have to be disciplined so that you don't lose your money. It definitely gives you a head start, though...

[SteveinMN]

I also seem to see a large lack of empathy for people who have not been as fortunate, intelligent, and/or advantaged as some of the posters on some of those threads. I do understand that people are proud of what they've achieved, and rightfully so, but they also didn't achieve it in a vacuum, so the amount of gloating over the "stupid people" kind of bothers me.
Exactly. So many people find themselves on third base and think they hit the triple when, actually, they were born on third. Sometimes second. Some poor folks never even get to bat.

Life as one knows it can change pretty darn fast. So many are one debilitating illness or auto accident or personal relationship away from living in very different circumstances. I find it baffling that anyone would gloat or think that getting back to third base is simply a matter of "working harder".

[iris lilies]

It's definitely popular with a lot of people. I did really enjoy the threads on living car free. I just don't think that cars are evil and people that own them are stupid or wasting money. For most people where I live, a car is a necessity.

As I've gotten older, I've seen what can go wrong for hard working, responsible people. We're not as "in control" as we think. I feel fortunate now that I haven't become ill, been in a bad accident, or lost a lot of money in a small business or in the stock market.

It also seems like some of the people on that forum are kind of cocky about their net worth. To me, it's like they think they have SO much money, when I don't see it that way. I agree that they're doing very well, and it's admirable. I just hear a lot of inflated egos over there. But, I have a different situation. I've been born into much more fortunate circumstances than most people. I was raised in a family where you inherit money, and you don't spend it. You protect it for the next generation. That gives you a lot more of a safety net and a sense of security. You still have to be disciplined so that you don't lose your money. It definitely gives you a head start, though...

Yes, as a money hoarder, I shudder to think about retiring with only a few hundred thousand. It can go so fast. But that's me, not them. And that is likely part of youth.

We all have different risk tolerance, we don't all need to have the same personal finance standards.

[Alan]

Exactly. So many people find themselves on third base and think they hit the triple when, actually, they were born on third. Sometimes second. Some poor folks never even get to bat.

Life as one knows it can change pretty darn fast. So many are one debilitating illness or auto accident or personal relationship away from living in very different circumstances. I find it baffling that anyone would gloat or think that getting back to third base is simply a matter of "working harder".
It's true that some people make it all the way to third as a result of walks, although most people who make it to third base get there as a result of a solid double, followed by a mad dash to third after a wild pitch. Circumstances in their favor may have gotten them to the extra base, but it only happened because they busted their butts for the double and then took the risk of advancing further. Being proud of their success doesn't make them poor sports.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Those arrogant engineers must be someone's coworkers etc.. I imagine someone puzzling over "half the women who start here At Arrogance Inc. in engineering quit within a decade to become math teachers or something, what's that about? why oh why can't we keep good women engineers?" :) Though the competing could be a male or female trait of course, as it's an individual trait, but I don't quite think it breaks even there.

If one wants to contextualize one's income one can look at median income and 100k is significantly above it, so then be grateful for that (at least about that small aspect of one's life, maybe the rest of one's life sucks, shrug). And yes of course I know it varies depending on location, higher incomes where cost of living is higher, but it seldom makes up for the increased cost of living. It's significantly above median *household* income, if it's just one person and it's a dual earner household it's very much so.

[rodeosweetheart]

"I was raised in a family where you inherit money, and you don't spend it. You protect it for the next generation."
Me too, Awakened, but not in a a big way--no big inheritances or trust funds, but customarily, one inherits something, and one does not spend it, although paid 3 college tuitions with his inheritance, and then you work like heck to be able to do the same for your children. It is more of a stewardship mindset, which is why I like the money writers who focus on protecting principal and handing it down.

[catherine]

"I was raised in a family where you inherit money, and you don't spend it. You protect it for the next generation."
Me too, Awakened, but not in a a big way--no big inheritances or trust funds, but customarily, one inherits something, and one does not spend it, although paid 3 college tuitions with his inheritance, and then you work like heck to be able to do the same for your children. It is more of a stewardship mindset, which is why I like the money writers who focus on protecting principal and handing it down.

The stewardship gene was sorely lacking in my family. The cottage at the beach that I speak of so fondly where I spend my summers as a child.. my mother never honored my great-aunt's request to change the beneficiary of her will from her last surviving sister (who was in a nursing home with dementia) to my mother--the consequences of that were that apparently the State, which was paying for my grandmother's nursing home care, had to be reimbursed once my grandmother had a tangible asset. At least that's what my mother told me as to why she had to sell the house. Now that I'm older, I question that, but who knows.

My mother and stepfather got a considerable inheritance from my stepfather's grandmother ($80,000 in 1972), and it went on luxury cars, clothes, and drugs (my stepfather fell off the wagon when the money came in).

When my mother was on her deathbed, she pulled out from under the sheets three $20 bills--the same ones I had given her for Christmas 3 weeks earlier. That was my inheritance, but that's fine with me. What she lacked in personal finance skills, she made up for in other things, like a pure heart, which has been her true legacy.

I am trying to move from the conflicted relationship I have with money to a stewardship mindset--in fact, on my "goals" dry erase board, just last week, I added another goal, but I didn't want to use "budget" or "spending" or anything like that. So I called this goal "Stewardship"--so thanks for the posts, rodeosweetheart and awakenedsoul. Makes me feel I'm on the right path.

[rodeosweetheart]

Hi Catherine--just tried to pm you but your mailbox is full, thanks!

[catherine]

Hi Catherine--just tried to pm you but your mailbox is full, thanks!

Just cleaned it up...

[awakenedsoul]

rodeosweetheart and catherine, My dad told me that his father taught him, "You have a responsibility to leave the same amount that I'm leaving you, (adjusted for inflation,) to your children." He set an excellent example for us as far as living frugally, even though he is wealthy. He lived like the men in the book The Millionaire Next Door. My older brother spent his inheritance on music equipment, an expensive home that he lost, and other loans. He had already declared bankruptcy, and died with student loan debt and a large IRS bill. So, even though he came from "fortunate circumstances," he always spent, (or borrowed,) much more than he had. My middle brother has gotten into the same rut. They have a very expensive mortgage, private schools for the kids, and credit card debt. So, it's true, more money isn't always the answer. It took me some time to learn to have money that I "don't touch".
People who win the lottery tend to spend everything in the first couple of years. Money management is really a skill. I've read that most people spend their inheritances in the first year or two, as well. I've tried to keep my living expenses the same as when I was younger. Home maintenance this month has tipped that up a little bit, but I'm still pretty close to my $20,000. a year budget.

[rodeosweetheart]

Awakened, I really enjoyed that quote from your grandfather. The adjustment for inflation part is going to make this very tough! But you are quite right, more money isn't always the answer, and I have to keep reminding myself i need money that "I don't touch." I also need to start saving money for all these family emergencies that keep arising, as I need to budget for family assistance-- three generations, one up and two down.

And I am so impressed about your 20k number. I cannot seem to bring the numbers in anything like that. I always seem to end up with really high utility bills, car insurance, and food. And even if I get a handle on those, there are the family issues. I spent 27% of my take home pay this year on family stuff. My husband spent 18% of his take home pay with expenses around his dad and nephew's deaths. And this is not a line item in budget.

Man, I am stressing myself just looking at these numbers.

[pinkytoe]

I am so impressed about your 20k number.
Me too...I could retire yesterday if I could pull that off.

[awakenedsoul]

rodeosweetheart, It's really good that you're looking at the numbers. When you see how much is leaking out to help family members, that shows you a place where you can plug. (I know, easier said than done!) There are things like Research For Lie that completely cover the costs for cremation and burial. You donate your body to be used for medical research. I have that, and it feels good to know that it's in my trust. Those expenses can bankrupt people!

I'm fortunate that most of my utility bills are low, since my house is so small. Water is high, but I make use of it with the orchard and vegetable garden. (We all have to pay a flat fee of $80. per month.) My bus pass is only $32.00 a month, which is far less than I spent on transportation when I had a car. I spend around $50. a week on food, but that's my splurge and greatest pleasure!

I've noticed that when you don't have an emergency fund, things seem to keep breaking. If I procrastinate on home repairs, pretty soon the list is a mile long, and I feel lousy. It sounds like you family is in this kind of situation. I had to retrain myself and budget in $3,000. a year for home maintenance.

Rhonda Hetzel's blog Down To Earth helped me see how I could cut my expenses and retire early. She and her husband live in Australia on something like $350. a week for the two of them! She treats her work in the home like a job. He is the same way with the outside stuff. They are very inspiring.

pinkytoe, I may have to raise that number up to $21,000 or $22,000. I aim to stay under $1,500. each month. I didn't plan on retiring early, but with the economy, I sort of backed into it. I studied early retirement on forums like MMM and earlyretirementextreme.com and was surprised. Most of those people weren't rich. They just saved a huge portion of their income, invested it, and lived very frugally. I decided to try it. I ran the numbers, and it turns out it's cheaper for me to stay home.

[iris lilies]

...She treats her work in the home like a job. He is the same way with the outside stuff....

This is smart. It's the way I envision our retirement, and since DH is already a super fix-it guy and is a home body, we'll make it work.

[Packy]

Well, there's two things: Hummolt Smart, and there's Hummolt Big. Hummolt Big is when you're born big--a descendant of the Vikings;, and then you Eat Big--Pizza, Giant Fried Tenderloins, BBQ Pork, Lockered Beef that you put away just so you don't starve. Then, for something to do--you DRIVE, just get out and DRIVE. No sense letting that big, fat Buick UltraMarathoner Crossover SUV just sit there, rusting away till next year, when you trade it off. Take your family shopping in Omaha, Minneapolis(Maul O' Amerika), Des Moines. You love Athletics---you are VERY sports-minded, so you DRIVE to see The Game. Naturally, you have a BIG appetite after the game, so you go to this new restaurant you heard about, STAND in Line, and have MORE FOOD. Hope that answers your question.

[simplelife4me]

His website has some good info. He is a bit cocky and is in denial about his insistence he is retired. He just switched careers from engineering to blogging for a living.

[awakenedsoul]

This is smart. It's the way I envision our retirement, and since DH is already a super fix-it guy and is a home body, we'll make it work.

You're lucky. One of my biggest expenses is home repairs. I do have a new plumber that has started coming over on the weekends and fixing things. He says he likes my house and he likes my energy. He was going to charge me next to nothing. I pay him well because I don't want to take advantage...

It sounds like you and your husband will have a great partnership in retirement.

[Spartana]

His overall philosophy in this case is too true and too correct. It's not about the money, it's about doing and enjoying all the life you can without the money. Well, with minimal amounts of the money. Something all of us on this forum should be able to appreciate. Simple(r) living.

I like the guy and enjoy his writings. And he seems to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. More power to him.I like the guy and his writings as well. I also like the in-your-face and facepunchiness tone of the forums even when they get kind of out of hand. I feel free to speak my mind there. I was already "FIRE'd" as they call it (Financially Independent Retired Early) when I found that site - as well as ERE which is more my personal version of a frugal retired lifestyle but it's not a very active forum- and don't follow any of his investment advise, but appreciate the other aspects. I especially like seeing the young-uns in their 20's "get it" and move towards a more frugal, yet fulfilling, life.

[RosieTR]

I like the way he often hammers home the ideas of what, exactly a comfort and luxury are. Food is a necessity, but food out is a luxury. A hot shower and a vehicle are way more often luxuries than what most people think. Yes, I'm not riding my bike to work 12 miles in the rain tomorrow, but then again I can acknowledge and appreciate that it's a luxury.
the competitive/bro attitude can be a but tiring tho, but I try to overlook that. The MMM forum has been very appealing for DH so that has been great for us! He was ok frugal before but is now way mire interested in FIRE for real. :-)

[ApatheticNoMore]

Oh I definitely see much as luxury, but cars kind of suck, yea they're ok if you use them to do what you want on the weekend (and then I usually don't go far most of the time because who really wants to contend with traffic and the fatigue of driving to go anywhere far - but they do take you places that are nearby really fast and that's kind of nice). But mostly it's commuting back and forth to work (oh yes it's a wonderful joy and luxury but it fact it's not, and I think it's better not to lie to oneself and admit it's not one of the better parts of the day. I go back and forth on the moving for the job, working from home is banned, and public transit would be 3 hours of commuting every day.).

What I do see as luxuries is how much meat people eat. One book pointed out that a chicken in every pot was once considered abundance, now we're like chicken, meh I want beef! (it doesn't help that they are cheap industrialized tasteless chickens, but really buy good quality food, and then maybe eat it less often and appreciate it as the abundance it is.) Hot showers are nice. But hot baths are one of my favorite things in the world. The ideal if it's just a little chilly outside, open the bathroom window over the tub just a little bit (nah noone can see in), and hot bath and fresh cool air. Luxury is sometimes tempting as a way to counteract pain, if most days are stressful, boring, frustrating, etc. (weekdays :)). And does it work? Hot baths always work! But other than that, mostly no. Unless it's used as a reward to motivate oneself maybe, ok if I do all this stuff I've been procrastinating forever, I get a massage or something.