Chaos

[domestic goddess]

I should preface this with a couple of statements, first. I realize that I'm not feeling real well right now, so I'm a bit irritable and short tempered. Secondly, I'm getting on in years, and I like peace and quiet. I never had much tolerance for drama, and it gets less as I get older.
That said, what is with the "younger generation", and all the drama it seems to generate? I don't understand the apparent love of drama that seems to be so prevalent, at least in my dsil's family, and dd & dsil's friends. One of their long-time friends is a young man of their own age, mid 30's. He is a plumber by trade, and apparently quite good at it. He is also homeless, and has been as long as I have known him, more than 10 years. He has never had an apartment of his own. He travels from friend's house to friend's house, crashing on sofas, bumming their cigarettes and eating their food, until they throw him out, and then he goes on to another one. On a couple of occasions he has moved in with a girlfriend, but that never seems to last more than a few months. I guess the girls get tired of going to work every day, while he sleeps until 3 p.m., then gets up. If there is a call for an after hours plumbing emergency, he goes out and works, but that isn't every day, or even every week. Just recently, he went to Russia to see a woman he met on-line. They even got engaged, but that has apparently come to an end. He came back to the States a couple of days ago, bringing with him a young man he met in Russia. This guy seems nice enough, but I don't think he was really expecting to come here and have to sleep on our couch, in an already crowded household of six. Oh, and dsil's friend also brought his dog, a pit bull, which is a really nice and well trained dog, but kind of big for this house. What I don't understand is that this guy doesn't think he is homeless, because he can always find someone to take him in, which none of his family will do. Of course, he just got back in the country, so it is understandable that he doesn't have a job set up yet, but he has never had his own place to live, and I don't see that changing. DSIL also has a niece, who is in much the same position, except that she has had her own place for short periods of time. Then she decides she can't tolerate the friend she has moved in with, so she goes back to roaming from friend's house to friend's house. She was recently here for a few days, told me all about her job, but never worked an hour in the time she was here. She has two small children who, fortunately, are subjected to the chaos; the oldest one lives with the people (DSIL's brother and sister in law) who raised her and the youngest lives with bio dad, who is a loving and stable father. DN is now hanging with the members of a motorcycle club (shades of Sons of Anarchy), and she claims that they "really respect" her, because she won't sleep with all of them. Finally, she got some implanted birth control device, immediately got pregnant, and subsequently had a miscarriage. It has apparently kicked in now. This gal is in her mid 20's, high school drop-out, who fights perpetually with the woman who raised her and can't live at home because she won't try to get along. She visits her children, but the day-to-day responsibility of raising them lies with others.
I realize that everyone around them enables this kind of activity, but none of us really wants to see them living in their cars. What I don't understand is that they are constantly in a state of total chaos, and it doesn't seem to occur to them that this lifestyle encourages that, and that they probably can't pull themselves out of this mess until things calm down and they can focus on problem solving. The niece is so consumed with her social life that she can't be concerned with anything else. At present, she has a stalker. I have tried to get her to go to the police, change her phone number so he can't call or text her, but she apparently values telling everyone she knows the story more. At the moment, he is more creepy than really a threat, but who knows how long that will last? He calls her constantly, and she answers each call to tell him to stop calling her. She seems to be unable not to answer her cell, something else I have noticed with the younger generation. (Putting on my old lady hat now)
I'm sorry this is so rambling and whining. I just really don't know what to do; I am oriented toward problem solving, and neither of these people seems to think they even have a problem, let alone that there might be a simple solution to it. How can people live with this kind of chaos in their lives, and what will the future look like for these little children?

[JaneV2.0]

I'm at a loss for words. And that rarely happens.

ETA: I feel sorry for the dog. It will probably end up in a shelter, or worse.

[domestic goddess]

Actually, he is very devoted to the dog. Took him to Russia with him. He takes him for long runs and bike rides (he has a sort of "stroller" the dog can ride in). He has owned the dog for several years. His brother owns pit bulls, too, and would take the dog rather than see anything happen to it. He will spend his last dime on food for the dog, and he always brings it with him. I am less worried about the dog than anyone else involved in this mess. Is this kind of life common among the young today?

[IshbelRobertson]

I don't know of anyone in my children's generation living that type of life. All of the younger generation that I know appear to be forging careers and trying to get on the property ladder!

[ctg492]

One word Enableing.

[ctg492]

I was the biggest Enabler out there. During my son's recovery process (over three years ago Yeah!) I had to take classes and counseling through in treatment home he was at. Enableing is a terrible cycle that we do out of some mixed up justification of love.

But on on the topic of Drama. Yes I see it in many today. Stuff that seems unreal as there is so much else in life to deal with. Do you think it is in part due to all those weird reality shows that make life look like it is normal to be in constant chaos?

[merince]

I think some people just love the attention that drama brings. After all, if they (generic they, I have no clue if this applies to any of the situations mentioned here) straighten up their lives, they would get no sympathetic ears for their tales of misfortune. I've known several people like that, who know what they need to do, but never do it. It irritated me a lot until I realized that my role is to just listen instead of coming up with solutions. I have to treat it pretty much like a novel and not get involved.

[iris lilies]

I'm not able to contemplate taking a dog to Russia on a visit. Many and complex hoops would have had to be jumped through, even for Russia. But I'm glad that doggie has such a devoted dad.

Anyway.

Your daughter and son in law seem to be the stable people among their friends. Over the years it seems that these hangers on, the couch surfers, are a constant in their lives. They must get something out of that.

[jp1]

Am I reading correct that the plumber and his russian friend are staying in your house? If that's the case the solution seems pretty simple. It's your house. Kick them out. If DSIL wants to let people mooch off of him that's his deal, not yours. And if he lives in your house then it's not his place to offer places to stay to other people.

[JaneV2.0]

Actually, he is very devoted to the dog. Took him to Russia with him. He takes him for long runs and bike rides (he has a sort of "stroller" the dog can ride in). He has owned the dog for several years. His brother owns pit bulls, too, and would take the dog rather than see anything happen to it. He will spend his last dime on food for the dog, and he always brings it with him. I am less worried about the dog than anyone else involved in this mess. Is this kind of life common among the young today?

Oh, that's good. I'm relieved. In answer to your last question, I know only a few young people--all of them working, going to school, or both. Most of them are partnered; I think one is buying a house. If there's any drama, I'm not aware of it.

[domestic goddess]

Good news! The two guys staying here have found somewhere else to go. It is about an hour or so from here, so it will be a couple of days before they can get moved out. I'm sure it can't be comfortable for the Russian guy to have to sleep on the couch while my school aged grandchildren are getting ready for school, and the rest of us are getting up and ready for the day. I think I've given the wrong impression here; I live with my dd and dsil in their house,as I help with bills and child care, so I can't just give anyone the boot. DD's friends are all partnered and working/going to school, so this nomadic life is strange to me. I think dsil is the one who is addicted to drama; he is the youngest of 9 children and, with a family that large, there has to nearly always be someone having some kind of drama. It seems that if things get too quiet around here, he gets a bit explosive. The nomadic friends and family are all his. Actually, now that I think about it, I can trace much of the drama and dysfunctionality to him and his family. We are the quiet, boring side of the family, but the ones people come to for help. Anyway, I am calmer today. Thank you.

[catherine]

I don't think it's a generational thing. Some people thrive on chaos and others don't. Perhaps because these days there are far fewer rules than we had, it seems more chaotic. My life followed a very linear path from HS to college to job to marriage to kids, but my own kids have had their own windy paths through life. Not necessarily right or wrong, but sometimes hard to follow!

So glad you are getting some peace!

[Gardenarian]

I don't know. Are they unhappy?
I would be crazy in that situation, but who knows? There are a lot of young people who are apparently "living rough": homeless by choice. Or maybe it's lack of direction.
I do worry about the children involved; I hope they are getting all the attention they need. And your niece; she sounds very vulnerable.

[domestic goddess]

They sure don't act very happy. The young people I know who are homeless, simply don't have a home that they pay for. They mooch off of those who pay rent or mortgage. It sometimes isn't even a matter of money; they just don't bother to hunt for a place, sign a lease and get a couple of pieces of furniture. I don't find the "mooching" aspect of any of this admirable. Man up and pay rent or go live in a homeless shelter. Don't mooch off your friends who do pay rent or a mortgage, and eat their food and smoke their cigarettes. The children are being cared for. I don't think it is doing the mother any favors, to remove that responsibility from her life, but that isn't the most important thing right now. She seems quite proud of the fact that she has a "stalker", and I sure don't want the kids around any of that. OMG, I just realized that we sound like something right off of Honey Boo-Boo, before all that blew up. Remind me to tell you about dsil's nephew, who just gained custody of his 3 year old daughter, who was afraid to go home to her mother because the mother had sex with men in the bed she shared with the child. Sometimes I just think I'm hopelessly old fashioned, but then I think "no, these people are crazy!"

[Gardenarian]

What you are describing is crazy - and abusive. Sounds like they all need an intervention.

[wren]

I heard similar stories from two former co-workers. The first one was one of four women students renting an apartment when a stray young man ended up living on their couch. It was supposed to be temporary, but stretched out to months, with him just watching TV and eating their food. Since he wouldn't leave, they gave their notice to the landlord without telling the freeloader, and they all moved out, leaving the landlord to deal with him.

The second freeloader was a childhood friend of the co-worker's dh. He'd never been employed before (at age ~30) and preferred to play video games all day once he came to their home. He even complained about the food, and the noise made by the children. She brought him to work one day so we could see the entitled attitude. This co-worker waited about two weeks, then she borrowed a pickup truck, threw all his stuff in the back, and told him to get in the cab, because he had to leave. So she wrote the ending to this particular drama.

[jp1]

I just don't understand how someone like that gets invited to stay anywhere. I'd not let someone like that in my front door at all, much less utter the words "sure you can sleep on the couch for a while"

[iris lilies]

... Do you think it is in part due to all those weird reality shows that make life look like it is normal to be in constant chaos?

That's interesting theory, yep, maybe. The Kardashian princesses are always rushing around in genned-up high drama, so if you can't get their money and fame, maybe you can still be the star of your own little drama show. There have always been people like this, ones who enjoy drama, but these reality shows are likely making it worse.

[domestic goddess]

Well, I certainly didn't invite him to stay. It isn't my house so I don't get to make those decisions.
I think all these reality shows make people think that high drama is how they should live their lives, and that life without it is just too boring. I like quiet and even boring. I wasn't raised with drama, and don't quite get how to deal with it. I sure don't want to make any more by jumping in feet first and saying/doing the wrong thing. The guys will be gone soon, though I like the Russian guy. He is quiet and well-mannered. He has learned a good bit of English in a rather short time, and was appreciative of the fact that dd knows a few words of Russian, since that was an interest of dh's. I don't remember people having so much drama in their personal lives until all these reality shows. Now it seems to be epidemic!

[jp1]

I had lunch a couple of months ago with a dear friend of mine who I hadn't seen in years. Not since I had moved from NYC to San Francisco six years ago, in fact. She's like me. Very low drama. Doesn't want stress, etc. Her husband, the same way. Her older daughter. Also the same way. Her younger daughter, now 6 1/2 years old... Totally the opposite of the rest of the family. According to my friend this little kid wants ACTION all the time. The rest of the family would be happy sitting in their own corner reading books but this kid is running around, dancing, singing, egging everyone else to join her, and doesn't understand what's wrong with her family members. Clearly this little girl is the extrovert in a family of introverts. I assume that 20 years from now she'll be the person that lets the 'homeless' friend stay on the couch for a while. Not faulting her (especially since she's still a 6 year old kid...) but just saying that's not what works for me...

[domestic goddess]

I don't really want to be the kind of person who would turn away someone in need, even if the "need" is a result of the person not putting forth any effort. But the drama is a whole different thing. When we started talking about this at home, we discovered that dsil's niece was telling different ones of us different things, apparently to avoid criticism or negative comments. That makes it harder to cull the real story out of the mix, but I have a pretty good idea, considering her history. Right now she is staying somewhere else, and the two guys are staying somewhere else, also, so it is all just our little family now. Since I'm still sick, I'm glad not to have others to worry about. I really would hate it if the Russian guy got sick from being in the house. Anyway, all is well now.

[gmpg54]

Just my 2 cents.. I think its generational,passed down,like blue eyes or a family full of cops or firefighters.Some people just thrive on it.

[kib]

You might want to look up 'borderline personality disorder'.

I don't think this sort of behavior is normal, young or not, but I was once upon a long time ago that girl who would get up and go to work while my not-that-significant other hung out on the couch 'with a bad back' waiting for me to get home so we could play. Once he realized that just because I was bringing in six figures didn't mean he was on easy street, that I expected payment for his share of the rent, he moved out again pretty quickly, with a dramatic tale of woe, of course. At least it was no longer MY drama - congratulations on your upcoming (comparative) peace.

[Aqua Blue]

This discussion shares a lot of traits with the whole addiction/codependency thing IMHO.

[iris lilies]

I would worry about my grandchildren in the midst of all of this coming and going. Stats show that this is the kind of situation that leads to child molestation. The molesters are usually well known to the child. These little girls are vulnerable.

[Teacher Terry]

I agree with IL. As a former social worker this kind of thng is more common then you think. The parents think they are doing a good thing by helping people out but predators can be very deceiving & those little girls are easy targets.

[Songbird]

I had lunch a couple of months ago with a dear friend of mine who I hadn't seen in years. Not since I had moved from NYC to San Francisco six years ago, in fact. She's like me. Very low drama. Doesn't want stress, etc. Her husband, the same way. Her older daughter. Also the same way. Her younger daughter, now 6 1/2 years old... Totally the opposite of the rest of the family. According to my friend this little kid wants ACTION all the time. The rest of the family would be happy sitting in their own corner reading books but this kid is running around, dancing, singing, egging everyone else to join her, and doesn't understand what's wrong with her family members. Clearly this little girl is the extrovert in a family of introverts. I assume that 20 years from now she'll be the person that lets the 'homeless' friend stay on the couch for a while. Not faulting her (especially since she's still a 6 year old kid...) but just saying that's not what works for me...

The 6 1/2 daughter sounds like a normal healthy and happy little girl. I'm not sure why you are predicting a 6 1/2 year old child's future behavior. Strange...

[domestic goddess]

If I felt my granddaughters were at any kind of risk, I would have put my foot down. All except the Russian man were well known to us, and he was never alone with any of them. There are enough adult family members that they need never be alone with anyone without their mom, dad or grandma (me), and they were at school all day and at their various activities after school. Now that it is calmer around here, I am calmer, and my snit is over. The Russian guy has said he plans to stay for several months; not sure what his wife (in Russia) will think about that! But that's not my monkey...

[Karma]

Not your problem. Don't let freeloaders stay with you and tell your family that you aren't interested in hearing about their loser friends anymore.

[domestic goddess]

Not my house, so I don't get to decide who does and doesn't stay here. DSIL gets sick of it pretty quickly, so, generally, no one is here for very long.

[Tenngal]

I should preface this with a couple of statements, first. I realize that I'm not feeling real well right now, so I'm a bit irritable and short tempered. Secondly, I'm getting on in years, and I like peace and quiet. I never had much tolerance for drama, and it gets less as I get older.
That said, what is with the "younger generation", and all the drama it seems to generate? I don't understand the apparent love of drama that seems to be so prevalent, at least in my dsil's family, and dd & dsil's friends. One of their long-time friends is a young man of their own age, mid 30's. He is a plumber by trade, and apparently quite good at it. He is also homeless, and has been as long as I have known him, more than 10 years. He has never had an apartment of his own. He travels from friend's house to friend's house, crashing on sofas, bumming their cigarettes and eating their food, until they throw him out, and then he goes on to another one. On a couple of occasions he has moved in with a girlfriend, but that never seems to last more than a few months. I guess the girls get tired of going to work every day, while he sleeps until 3 p.m., then gets up. If there is a call for an after hours plumbing emergency, he goes out and works, but that isn't every day, or even every week. Just recently, he went to Russia to see a woman he met on-line. They even got engaged, but that has apparently come to an end. He came back to the States a couple of days ago, bringing with him a young man he met in Russia. This guy seems nice enough, but I don't think he was really expecting to come here and have to sleep on our couch, in an already crowded household of six. Oh, and dsil's friend also brought his dog, a pit bull, which is a really nice and well trained dog, but kind of big for this house. What I don't understand is that this guy doesn't think he is homeless, because he can always find someone to take him in, which none of his family will do. Of course, he just got back in the country, so it is understandable that he doesn't have a job set up yet, but he has never had his own place to live, and I don't see that changing. DSIL also has a niece, who is in much the same position, except that she has had her own place for short periods of time. Then she decides she can't tolerate the friend she has moved in with, so she goes back to roaming from friend's house to friend's house. She was recently here for a few days, told me all about her job, but never worked an hour in the time she was here. She has two small children who, fortunately, are subjected to the chaos; the oldest one lives with the people (DSIL's brother and sister in law) who raised her and the youngest lives with bio dad, who is a loving and stable father. DN is now hanging with the members of a motorcycle club (shades of Sons of Anarchy), and she claims that they "really respect" her, because she won't sleep with all of them. Finally, she got some implanted birth control device, immediately got pregnant, and subsequently had a miscarriage. It has apparently kicked in now. This gal is in her mid 20's, high school drop-out, who fights perpetually with the woman who raised her and can't live at home because she won't try to get along. She visits her children, but the day-to-day responsibility of raising them lies with others.
I realize that everyone around them enables this kind of activity, but none of us really wants to see them living in their cars. What I don't understand is that they are constantly in a state of total chaos, and it doesn't seem to occur to them that this lifestyle encourages that, and that they probably can't pull themselves out of this mess until things calm down and they can focus on problem solving. The niece is so consumed with her social life that she can't be concerned with anything else. At present, she has a stalker. I have tried to get her to go to the police, change her phone number so he can't call or text her, but she apparently values telling everyone she knows the story more. At the moment, he is more creepy than really a threat, but who knows how long that will last? He calls her constantly, and she answers each call to tell him to stop calling her. She seems to be unable not to answer her cell, something else I have noticed with the younger generation. (Putting on my old lady hat now)
I'm sorry this is so rambling and whining. I just really don't know what to do; I am oriented toward problem solving, and neither of these people seems to think they even have a problem, let alone that there might be a simple solution to it. How can people live with this kind of chaos in their lives, and what will the future look like for these little children?

we have a term here to describe this and it is called being a "moocher." Husband's brother has wandered through life doing almost this exact same thing. Staying with family members, current girlfriends, or buddies until being thrown out. His latest conquest has worked well since it was a lady who had recently been widowed and was really looking for someone to take care of. She is older and we know he will be back to his old habits when she is no longer able to support him financially. Where is the responsibility gene is these people?