View Full Version : Two police officers fatally shot in Brooklyn NYC
gimmethesimplelife
12-20-14, 7:51pm
Surprise! Based on the information thus far released as I type this, my sympathies are with the deceased police officers and their family and friends they leave behind. Killing cops to me is just as bad as cops overstepping and killing when it is not called for. There is no excuse for these two murders - I firmly believe that in this case, based on what has been released thus far. I'd even be willing to protest for them just as much as I'd protest for those in recent high profile cases. Rob
Out in Callyfornya, today---way up north in Humboldt County, a highway patrol officer was attacked and injured with a machete after responding to a one-car wreck report. He responded by fatally shooting his attacker. Now, the not-really-liberal News Media is reporting every attack on law enforcement, nationwide. Getting things stirred up, as usual. There are now two factions in this country--Pro-Cop, or Anti-Cop. Take your pick, and make sure it is driven by emotion.
iris lilies
12-20-14, 8:49pm
The news media is not happy until we are unhappy! They are bigger race baiters than even the Rev Al.
The commie mayor of NYC is calling this an "assassination." I hope these two officers had signed the document indicating they didn't want the commie at their funerals if they were killed in the line of duty.
I'm very sorry for the officers, but I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner. From the Prez ("If I had a son...") and Holder on down to Sharpton, Jackson, and Father Flakey, everyone has been telling the thugs their feelings are justified. This is nothing more than the predictable conclusion from the months of race baiting and agitation by the media whores and the media themselves.
Shooter was a spineless coward. He off'd himself before the NYPD could take him into custody.
People happy about the NYPD officers getting shot/dying.
http://twitchy.com/2014/12/20/can-they-breathe-execution-style-killing-of-two-nypd-officers-celebrated-salute-the-shooter/
Yep.
Silver automatic handgun? Semi-automatic, you media twerps.
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 12:21am
People happy about the NYPD officers getting shot/dying.
http://twitchy.com/2014/12/20/can-they-breathe-execution-style-killing-of-two-nypd-officers-celebrated-salute-the-shooter/Tradd, as you know by now, I am very much anti-cop for reasons I have gone on and on about ad infinitum. I won't repeat them here. I'm only posting to say I find myself walking a fine line on this one. I'm not changing my stance that murdering these cops was wrong - no excuses, just flat out wrong and I can't condone it. That hasn't changed. But I will say that I can understand what it is about American society that could push someone over the edge and into such behavior. I share your opinion that I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner, but I fear for much different reasons. I'm also afraid that this event may inspire others to similar acts - which is only going to make the police more trigger happy and helps no one but ramps up fear and terror of America. Something here has to give, something has to change, but I can't see that happening in present day America and I don't believe this is going to end well.
For those of you that believe much differently, more power to you. But one thing I have said has come to fruition - that these issues are just not going to politely go away. This murder of these two officers really clinched it for me - these issues are not going to go away and someone somewhere is going to have to have the courage to address them otherwise this is just going to continue. If for no other reason, if human life means nothing, think of international reputation and how trade and tourism can and will be affected. Think of dollars only and you'll see that I have a point regardless. I'm not feeling good about any of this BUT at least ugly issues are on the table and not only here but for the whole world to see the rot of America and judge our system for what it really is.....I applaud this last as I've always believed that America doesn't have all the answers nor the only one way to do things.
I'm just hoping that no matter how ugly this gets going forward, eventually there is some humane resolution.....though I believe there may have to be significant transfers of wealth via lawsuits and loss of trade/tourism before there is any real change. I believe the reasons behind what has happened here are too entrenched in America to be budged by anything other than fear of financial loss/dramatic financial consequences.
One last thing I'd like to add - one of my facebook friends is someone who is happy about the shooting and is posting about his joy over it. I responded back saying that I can understand why he'd feel this way but shooting these two officers is still murder and it is not going to bring back Micheal Brown or Eric Garner. I also posted that I was 100% against the murders of Micheal Brown and Eric Garner AND that I am also 100% against the murders of these two officers. Violence is just going to beget more violence and this is not the way that is going to result in positive change. Positive change can be affected much less dramatically by civil lawsuits going forward - murders of random officers is not the way to solve/change anything. Just my dollar twenty seven cents on this one as someone who has skin in the game via seeing police brutality in action before. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 12:42am
The commie mayor of NYC is calling this an "assassination." I hope these two officers had signed the document indicating they didn't want the commie at their funerals if they were killed in the line of duty.
I'm very sorry for the officers, but I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner. From the Prez ("If I had a son...") and Holder on down to Sharpton, Jackson, and Father Flakey, everyone has been telling the thugs their feelings are justified. This is nothing more than the predictable conclusion from the months of race baiting and agitation by the media whores and the media themselves.
Shooter was a spineless coward. He off'd himself before the NYPD could take him into custody.No judgement here, ok? I'm just perplexed. Why do you call the mayor of NYC a communist? Am I missing something here? Rob
I'm only posting to say I find myself walking a fine line on this one.
Sick.
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 1:06am
Sick.??? Did I not state that I was 100% against these murders? Did I not call them murders? Surely you must have noticed that and surely you must have noticed my stance against retaliatory violence? Surely you must have noticed my advocating for civil lawsuits for large punitive transfers of wealth to effect change? What is sick in this Bae? Sorry, I'm not following you on this one. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
12-21-14, 1:15am
Were the cops in any way even related to incidents of police violence? Whether one's feelings are justified at being angry or even protesting at the various incidents of police violence like Micheal Brown or Eric Garner, and taking it out on unrelated police officers are completely separate issues. By analogy, it's like after 9-11 there were incidents on vigilante justice on random Muslims, and even those who were merely mistaken for Muslims. But the clear injustice of that, by itself says what about whether people should or should not have been emotionally upset about 9-11?
Now one can say that strong rhetoric will further unhinge the already unhinged and that is no doubt true. And I'm not sure what to do about it, as there are plenty of unhinged people in this country. And people who are really upset, and even justly so, about an issue will not always carefully censor their language (I mean protestors and the like of course, politicians do things for their own reasons).
Things that push too far (too much police violence) will generate pushback, pushback will never be entirely contained even with the best intentions of protest leaders if they exist etc.. Since few in power actually believe in trying to actually address problems anymore and come up with mutually beneficial solutions, if they ever did, it escalates, rinse and repeat.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/20/two-cops-assassinated-in-brooklyn.html
On December 15, some of the protesters demonstrating in Manhattan against the failure of grand juries in Staten Island and Missouri to indict police officers in the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown were videotaped chanting, “What do we want!? Dead Cops!” Thousands of others chanted, “How do you spell murder? NYPD!”
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 1:32am
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/20/two-cops-assassinated-in-brooklyn.html
On December 15, some of the protesters demonstrating in Manhattan against the failure of grand juries in Staten Island and Missouri to indict police officers in the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown were videotaped chanting, “What do we want!? Dead Cops!” Thousands of others chanted, “How do you spell murder? NYPD!” Not exactly helping their cause if their goal is eliminating police brutality, is it? I maintain the best way to effect change is via civil lawsuits and not violence. Violence just begets more violence and can spiral and escalate into a nightmare very quickly, and I believe this situation, race relations and inequality in America/police brutality in America has that potential. Sad, very sad. The only way I know of in America to effect change in a situation like this is financial loss/fear of financial loss - it's the one thing Americans with power will hear and respond to above all else. Fifteen when I figured that one out - though I will agree that this doesn't work in all situations - just hot button ones like this that bring out strong emotions in people. I was 15 when I learned fear of loss of the dollar is stronger than emotions over hot button issues for most Americans. And it would be one way to reduce violence and also strike back in a way that causes fear, loss, and damage. I'm just not on the same page with violent behavior such as what happened today in Brooklyn. In my book, the court method is much more effective. Rob
No judgement here, ok? I'm just perplexed. Why do you call the mayor of NYC a communist? Am I missing something here? Rob
You have to ask? He goes on and on about the income redistribution crap. Excuse me, but that's to take away the $$ I worked my arse off for to give it to someone who isn't busting their butt. Also supported the Sandinistas.
vhttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/bill-de-blasio-6-strange-facts-new-york
For the record, I call the Prez and Rahm Emanuel commies as well.
Then there's the nanny state crap. People need to be protected from everything. Nearly everything has to be decided for them. They can't be trusted to make most of their own decisions and they can't be held responsible for the decisions they do make.
As I've read somewhere and posted to my FB page: "The Democratic Party: taking the hurts out of stupid since 1965."
The left whines about the cops, yet when something really bad happens, they want the cops to protect them. Except you, Rob, you think the cops are crap stains on society, and aren't useful for anything.
Did you happen to notice that two minority officers were killed by this scumbag? A Latino and an Asian.
Rob, since you want to bankrupt a municipality so badly, I suggest you take a close look at Detroit.
Apathetic, you've got some really good points, there. But, the one thing that would do much to break the cycle is for the supposedly-too-liberal News Media to develop some ethics, show some restraint, and stop sensationalizing and spinning everything, focusing on certain types of incidents and pot-stirring and reporting "false narratives". Popular media has gotten really trashy and dumbed-down! They'd rather report alarmist news, and create the perception that abnormal is the new normal. I've even noticed that with my interest magazines. I don't advocate censorship; but at the same time, I believe this is not a new problem, and that censorship has been used in other societies not exclusively for the purpose of enabling authoritarian regimes(as media advocates would have you believe), but in order to keep the peace and avoid causing panics, too. As in: what they don't know won't hurt them. As in: see no evil, hear no evil; speak no evil.
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 1:44am
Rob, since you want to bankrupt a municipality so badly, I suggest you take a close look at Detroit.It's not so much that I want to bankrupt a municipality - and I agree with your point about Detroit, it's a basket case and I believe most people would agree with this - it's much more that punitive financial loss is the only way I know of to get Americans with power afraid - and afraid is the way to get them to effect change. I'm someone who doesn't flinch at the dark side of situations so I can see this. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 1:50am
You have to ask? He goes on and on about the income redistribution crap. Excuse me, but that's to take away the $$ I worked my arse off for to give it to someone who isn't busting their butt. Also supported the Sandinistas.
vhttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/bill-de-blasio-6-strange-facts-new-york
For the record, I call the Prez and Rahm Emanuel commies as well.
Then there's the nanny state crap. People need to be protected from everything. Nearly everything has to be decided for them. They can't be trusted to make most of their own decisions and they can't be held responsible for the decisions they do make.
As I've read somewhere and posted to my FB page: "The Democratic Party: taking the hurts out of stupid since 1965."
The left whines about the cops, yet when something really bad happens, they want the cops to protect them. Except you, Rob, you think the cops are crap stains on society, and aren't useful for anything.
Did you happen to notice that two minority officers were killed by this scumbag? A Latino and an Asian.Fair enough as to what you have posted about the NYC mayor and Chicago's mayor. I don't agree with you but fair enough. But I do see something positive here that America offers, seriously. There are places that you might feel more at home in such as most of Texas (avoid Austin though lol which is the one place that would work for me in Texas) and most of the deep South. Pretty much the NE in general - exceptions being Maine and Pennsylvania - is going to be more liberal (also New Hampshire is more Libertarian than liberal) - this kind of thinking works for me for the most part. I think we may find ourselves in areas not especially suited to us - Chicago tends to be liberal and Arizona tends to be conservative.....
At any rate, the good thing is we both can find others in this country to agree with us. Rob
PS For the record, I agree with you about the scumbag part. A real adult would strike back in court. Violence solves nothing and reduces people to the level of the police they have issues with in the first place. Stooping to this level does not help them with social media or gathering as much support as they otherwise could. And I certainly don't believe those officers murdered today should have been.....random violence is not going to solve jack squat. It's going to lead to escalation. What good does that do?
gimmethesimplelife
12-21-14, 2:03am
You have to ask? He goes on and on about the income redistribution crap. Excuse me, but that's to take away the $$ I worked my arse off for to give it to someone who isn't busting their butt. Also supported the Sandinistas.
vhttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/bill-de-blasio-6-strange-facts-new-york
For the record, I call the Prez and Rahm Emanuel commies as well.
Then there's the nanny state crap. People need to be protected from everything. Nearly everything has to be decided for them. They can't be trusted to make most of their own decisions and they can't be held responsible for the decisions they do make.
As I've read somewhere and posted to my FB page: "The Democratic Party: taking the hurts out of stupid since 1965."
The left whines about the cops, yet when something really bad happens, they want the cops to protect them. Except you, Rob, you think the cops are crap stains on society, and aren't useful for anything.
Did you happen to notice that two minority officers were killed by this scumbag? A Latino and an Asian.For the record, I don't believe that all cops are "crap stains on society" as you put it. Just the ones that engage in police brutality and the ones who abuse their power over people they interact with. Those ones need to lose their pensions instantly and also their jobs. The others do perform a necessary role in society and I can see this and agree with this. The problem is that there are too many of the former and not enough of the latter in neighborhoods that are rife with tension and social issues to begin with. In such areas, cops that are trigger happy really don't help their cause either, any more than the protesters in NYC chanting Death to the NYPD. The difference? The cop can kill you and get away with it. See the terrifying loss in the balance of power here? And unfortunately, there are some cops who live for this loss in the balance of power. Certainly not all but enough to where in my large neighborhood you would be hard pressed to find anyone with anything nice or even neutral to say about them. Seriously, at our last neighborhood meeting, one of the topics covered was how to deal with the police if they should ever ask you any question - pretty much say nothing other than "Am I free to go now?" This is what happens when the balance of power is abused by the police as it has been. Rob
goldensmom
12-21-14, 10:58am
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/20/two-cops-assassinated-in-brooklyn.html
On December 15, some of the protesters demonstrating in Manhattan against the failure of grand juries in Staten Island and Missouri to indict police officers in the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown were videotaped chanting, “What do we want!? Dead Cops!” Thousands of others chanted, “How do you spell murder? NYPD!”
Proof that words can literally hurt. Chant them long enough and some demented individual will take them literally. Sad to think there are people who espouse such hate and sad to see there are people who can stop it but fail to do so.
Yossarian
12-21-14, 11:32am
sad to see there are people who can stop it but fail to do so.
Or worse, pander to it for political gain. You can't stop all the dumbass individuals who spout gibberish, but no doubt we would be better served if our leaders or the press exercised an iota of intelligence, reason or moral courage to rebut the false narratives and elevate public discourse to a rational level.
JaneV2.0
12-21-14, 12:20pm
These random police killings have been going on for years. We had a spate of them here in 2009*. Tit for tat? Maybe, but they seem more personally motivated than that.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood,_Washington_police_officer_shooting
ETA: The motivations for these acts are clearly all over the place. Another killing here was perpetrated by an avowed white supremacist http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Suspect-shot-at-by-Pierce-Co-deputies-killed-himself-286272621.html,
as was this one in Nevada http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/couple-accused-killing-las-vegas-cops-civilian-white-supremacist-meth-heads-authorites-article-1.1822387
These random police killings have been going on for years. We had a spate of them here in 2009*. Tit for tat? Maybe, but they seem more personally motivated than that.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood,_Washington_police_officer_shooting
ETA: The motivations for these acts are clearly all over the place. Another killing here was perpetrated by an avowed white supremacist http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Suspect-shot-at-by-Pierce-Co-deputies-killed-himself-286272621.html,
as was this one in Nevada http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/couple-accused-killing-las-vegas-cops-civilian-white-supremacist-meth-heads-authorites-article-1.1822387
In this case, the shooter posted his reasoning on social media, ironically referencing false narratives found on social media. If that had been his only influence, I'd simply rue the state of our low information citizens who perpetuate these narratives and move on, but in this case it's bigger than anonymous rabble rousers, it's also our political class who have given the narratives credence in their desire to pander. Mayor de Blasio needs to re-think his rhetoric going forward. Race and culture panderers have blood on their hands leaving a stain that may last a long, long time.
The "political class" that points out the discrepancies between how white suspects (or actual criminals) are treated by the police as opposed to how black suspects are treated? Are those the false narratives you speak of? Or should that be a taboo subject? At any rate, I suspect that the white supremacists on both sides of the law have plenty of blood on their own hands.
This crime is very similar to the one in Australia--a violent man using current events to bring attention to himself. After killing his girlfriend, he randomly shot two (arguably non-white) officers, then himself. Tragic for the girlfriend and for the officers, but really not a symbolic event. Just another creep on the rampage.
Too bad guns are so accessible to every nut who wants one. And then people wonder why the police have to ramp up their defenses.
You have to ask? He goes on and on about the income redistribution crap. Excuse me, but that's to take away the $$ I worked my arse off for to give it to someone who isn't busting their butt. Also supported the Sandinistas.
vhttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/bill-de-blasio-6-strange-facts-new-york
For the record, I call the Prez and Rahm Emanuel commies as well.
Then there's the nanny state crap. People need to be protected from everything. Nearly everything has to be decided for them. They can't be trusted to make most of their own decisions and they can't be held responsible for the decisions they do make.
As I've read somewhere and posted to my FB page: "The Democratic Party: taking the hurts out of stupid since 1965."
Can you clarify what exactly this has to do with cops getting shot? Is that a problem in communist countries that I'm not aware of? I went looking for what the mayor had to say about the shootings and only found this:
"When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society," the mayor said. "It is an attack on the very concept of decency."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/21/us/new-york-police-officers-shot/
If there's been somewhere that the mayor spoke in favor of people killing cops I'm curious to see it.
I see McCarthyism is making a comeback. Waiting for the blacklists. From Wikipedia:
During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. The primary targets of such suspicions were government employees, those in the entertainment industry, educators and union activists. Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs was often greatly exaggerated. Many people suffered loss of employment and/or destruction of their careers; some even suffered imprisonment. Most of these punishments came about through trial verdicts later overturned,[2] laws that were later declared unconstitutional,[3] dismissals for reasons later declared illegal[4] or actionable,[5] or extra-legal procedures that would come into general disrepute.
It's worth noting that the Communist Party of America has 2000 members; it's hardly a threat to our corporate-run country.
The "political class" that points out the discrepancies between how white suspects (or actual criminals) are treated by the police as opposed to how black suspects are treated? Are those the false narratives you speak of? Or should that be a taboo subject? At any rate, I suspect that the white supremacists on both sides of the law have plenty of blood on their own hands.
This crime is very similar to the one in Australia--a violent man using current events to bring attention to himself. After killing his girlfriend, he randomly shot two (arguably non-white) officers, then himself. Tragic for the girlfriend and for the officers, but really not a symbolic event. Just another creep on the rampage.
+1
If there's been somewhere that the mayor spoke in favor of people killing cops I'm curious to see it.
He has expressed solidarity with anti-police protesters which prompted the NYPD union, prior to this double execution, to dis-invite him to any future police funerals. Now he's back-tracking, which is almost certainly too little, too late. Did you see his press conference where all the police officers in attendance turned their backs on him?
He should resign.
Too bad guns are so accessible to every nut who wants one. And then people wonder why the police have to ramp up their defenses.
New York (state and city) has among the toughest firearms laws in the country. Criminals are always able to get their hands on any guns they like, as they ignore the laws.
New York (state and city) has among the toughest firearms laws in the country. Criminals are always able to get their hands on any guns they like, as they ignore the laws.
I think there's a law forbidding executing police officers too. Maybe a few more will help.
.
Teacher Terry
12-21-14, 3:19pm
This is a sad situation. There will always be mentally unstable people that will be whipped up in a frenzy about something & do something horrible.
ApatheticNoMore
12-21-14, 3:19pm
I see McCarthyism is making a comeback. Waiting for the blacklists. From Wikipedia:
During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. The primary targets of such suspicions were government employees, those in the entertainment industry, educators and union activists. Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs was often greatly exaggerated. Many people suffered loss of employment and/or destruction of their careers; some even suffered imprisonment. Most of these punishments came about through trial verdicts later overturned,[2] laws that were later declared unconstitutional,[3] dismissals for reasons later declared illegal[4] or actionable,[5] or extra-legal procedures that would come into general disrepute.
it's more subtle today, generally noone will blacklist you for being a member of any political party, nor are you likely to be imprisoned for it. Still activism (which does not necessarily mean communism, that's not the point I'm making, the analogy I'm making is the punishments for political behavior as such) and protest is a highly likely way to destroy a career since who hires with a 'criminal' record and activism can very easily lead to one. Still rationally one may conclude that certain things are worth protesting for and so be it.
Or worse, pander to it for political gain. You can't stop all the dumbass individuals who spout gibberish, but no doubt we would be better served if our leaders or the press exercised an iota of intelligence, reason or moral courage to rebut the false narratives and elevate public discourse to a rational level.
CNN stokes the fire for ratings. Al Sharpton & Co. do it for $$ and power. Louis Farrakhan, too. I suggest you watch the video at the top of this article.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/12/01/farrakhan-to-african-americans-lets-die-for-something/
“The young – they are God’s children and they are not going down being peaceful. Watch now, because once it starts, it’s on,” Farrakhan told a crowd at Morgan State University in Baltimore. “You may not want to fight, but you better get ready. Teach your baby how to throw the bottle if they can.”
The Nation of Islam leader stated that we are going to “tear this God damn country up.”
“We gonna die. Let’s die for something,” he told the audience. “See, now when my Muslim family here, Imams and my Christian family – in this book, there is a law for retaliation. The Bible says an eye, a tooth, a life. See now, as long as they kill us, and go to Wendy’s and have a burger and go to sleep, they gonna keep killing us. But when we die and they die, then soon we gonna sit down at a table and talk about – we tired. We want some of this earth. We tear this God damn country up.”
Can you clarify what exactly this has to do with cops getting shot? Is that a problem in communist countries that I'm not aware of? I went looking for what the mayor had to say about the shootings and only found this:
"When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society," the mayor said. "It is an attack on the very concept of decency."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/21/us/new-york-police-officers-shot/
If there's been somewhere that the mayor spoke in favor of people killing cops I'm curious to see it.
Rob asked why I called the NYC major a commie. That's what I was responding to.
Rob asked why I called the NYC major a commie. That's what I was responding to.
So it didn't have anything to do with the shooting? None of your response had anything to do with the shooting. As far as I could tell you just wanted to use this as an opportunity to gripe about a mayor a thousand miles from where you live. I'm still wondering how income redistribution and the sandinistas factor into the mayor's opinion about someone killing cops.
Murdering Officer Rafael Ramos and Officer Wenjian Liu strikes me as a strange way to strike a blow against “white privilege”. But then, we’re living in the golden age of the spurious narrative. We’re told that our secret overlords are omnipotent corporations, yet they censor themselves shamelessly when a North Korean Stalinist throwback or Medieval Islamic sect can’t take a joke. Politicians who hector security services to “do everything possible” after a terrorist outrage become shocked, shocked when they do. Rolling Stone provides us insight into “the culture of rape” with a comically bogus story. An ambassador is supposedly murdered by a mob of outraged film critics. Adding one more law to the existing collection will sweep gun violence from our streets. You can keep your current health plan if you like it.
With all the technologically enhanced blather in circulation, and with a higher education system more interested in enforcing thought control than developing critical thinking, is it any surprise that the more unbalanced among us will act out in tragically idiotic ways?
If you blame the actions of a mentally ill man on African-American leaders, then who is at fault for Eric Frein, the white survivalist with a grudge against law enforcement? He ambushed two troopers in PA, killing one and seriously wounding the other, and cost the state millions of dollars during the manhunt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Frein
I'm waiting to hear the apologies of the anti-government/survivalist leaders for that one ...
iris lilies
12-23-14, 1:03am
If you blame the actions of a mentally ill man on African-American leaders, then who is at fault for Eric Frein, the white survivalist with a grudge against law enforcement? He ambushed two troopers in PA, killing one and seriously wounding the other, and cost the state millions of dollars during the manhunt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Frein
I'm waiting to hear the apologies of the anti-government/survivalist leaders for that one ...
Which anti-government survivalist politicians are you speaking of? Did they encourage The People to shoot cops?
Which anti-government survivalist politicians are you speaking of? Did they encourage The People to shoot cops?
Did Mayor DiBlasio encourage The People to shoot cops?
If you blame the actions of a mentally ill man on African-American leaders, then who is at fault for Eric Frein, the white survivalist with a grudge against law enforcement? He ambushed two troopers in PA, killing one and seriously wounding the other, and cost the state millions of dollars during the manhunt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Frein
I'm waiting to hear the apologies of the anti-government/survivalist leaders for that one ...
Blaming this crime on the slogans shouted by idiot mobs, the rantings of professional race-baiters or the pandering of politicians is as ridiculous and morally defective as blaming Sarah Palin for the shooting of Gabby Giffords. The embittered or delusional will always find some reason to set the bomb or ambush the cop. Our present climate of rebarbative nonsense simply provides a more varied menu to choose from, it isn’t a cause in and of itself.
, we’re living in the golden age of the spurious narrative.
Quite possibly the best turn of a phrase I've read on the internet this year.
JaneV2.0
12-23-14, 11:49am
Of course there are lots of spurious narratives out there--we have corporate media. We can argue the specifics, but I like to go with the old aphorism "follow the money"--in other words. which version of the story most benefits the ruling class--to suss out the truth.
Blaming this crime on the slogans shouted by idiot mobs, the rantings of professional race-baiters or the pandering of politicians is as ridiculous and morally defective as blaming Sarah Palin for the shooting of Gabby Giffords. The embittered or delusional will always find some reason to set the bomb or ambush the cop. Our present climate of rebarbative nonsense simply provides a more varied menu to choose from, it isn’t a cause in and of itself.I strongly disagree. Have you not heard the term "rabble-rouser"? It is not ridiculous. It is against the law to incite violence, it is against the law to yell fire(falsely) in a theater, and cause a panic. Adult ringleaders (who are held to higher standards) that have juvenile accomplices in a crime are typically punished more severely than the impressionable, irresponsible younger criminals who participated. Have you not taken a Psych 101 class, and read about the Milgrim Experiments? Likewise, the delusional, the hyper-idealistic, the desperate & emotionally unbalanced are going to get caught up in the crowd mentality that has been whipped up by a charismatic leader., don't you see? It is a given. Don't put rash ideas in their head, because they don't have the capacity to know right from wrong or they just don't care. Don't encourage people with a diminished sense of responsibility to do things you would not do--a man can't hand a young kid a book of matches, and tell him to commit arson & as a reward, they'll go out for pizza, later on. At the end of WWII, the Nazi Leadership was held to be primarily responsible for atrocities committed by the rank-and-file. My point is: the law does make those kind of distinctions, or it should, because a society with reasonable people makes those kinds of distinctions. I know the difference, Okay? Hope that helps you some. Thank Me.
Of course there are lots of spurious narratives out there--we have corporate media. We can argue the specifics, but I like to go with the old aphorism "follow the money"--in other words. which version of the story most benefits the ruling class--to suss out the truth.
I don’t think you’re giving enough credit to the common peoples’ boundless capacity for self-delusion and myth-making. We don’t need elites conspiring to deceive us when we are perfectly capable of doing it for ourselves. It’s more the case that successful marketing, politics and fashion is the art of recognizing and exploiting trends in the herd’s way of thinking than in creating them. Conspiracy theories and scapegoating are just methods used by slothful minds to make sense of the chaos of existence.
There are real conspiracies, to be sure. What else is politics but “the conspiracy of the unproductive but organized against the productive but unorganized.” We have only to consider the recent Gruber testimony on Obamacare to see the evidence. But they are much simpler and more transparent than the world-girdling fantasies we often hear about.
I strongly disagree. Have you not heard the term "rabble-rouser"? It is not ridiculous. It is against the law to incite violence, it is against the law to yell fire(falsely) in a theater, and cause a panic. Adult ringleaders (who are held to higher standards) that have juvenile accomplices in a crime are typically punished more severely than the impressionable, irresponsible younger criminals who participated. Have you not taken a Psych 101 class, and read about the Milgrim Experiments? Likewise, the delusional, the hyper-idealistic, the desperate & emotionally unbalanced are going to get caught up in the crowd mentality that has been whipped up by a charismatic leader., don't you see? It is a given. Don't put rash ideas in their head, because they don't have the capacity to know right from wrong or they just don't care. Don't encourage people with a diminished sense of responsibility to do things you would not do--a man can't hand a young kid a book of matches, and tell him to commit arson & as a reward, they'll go out for pizza, later on. At the end of WWII, the Nazi Leadership was held to be primarily responsible for atrocities committed by the rank-and-file. My point is: the law does make those kind of distinctions, or it should, because a society with reasonable people makes those kinds of distinctions. I know the difference, Okay? Hope that helps you some. Thank Me.
Ah. I see it now. We are all empty vessels waiting to be filled. If someone, say Al Sharpton, tells me what to think and I act on it, I am not responsible. Al is.
That, is at least partially correct. If he tells you to avenge the deaths of "unarmed black males shot by police" You and Al could be held responsible, under the RICO Statute. So, if I were you, I'd steer clear of Al Sharpton.
ApatheticNoMore
12-23-14, 1:27pm
Wait what's the evidence he even did it because he hated cops/was anti-cop/whatever? I mean yes I could see how free floating rage could fixate on the issue of the day, it's certainly within human nature to be influence and have it bounce against one's own crazy, especially in dude who just shot a woman but .... where's the evidence it did in this case? I'm probably just missing it. All I see is one Quranic verse that may be a bit "eye for an eyeish" but says nothing specific about cops. Spurious narrative may be right.
I thought he'd murdered his (ex) girlfriend; I'm glad to see he didn't. Hope she pulls through.
People of every ethnicity and wing-nuttiness take out their frustration on the police, just like some police officers take theirs out on the poor and powerless--it's an endless mobius strip of violence that's not likely to end any time soon.
Wait what's the evidence he even did it because he hated cops/was anti-cop/whatever? I mean yes I could see how free floating rage could fixate on the issue of the day, it's certainly within human nature to be influence and have it bounce against one's own crazy, especially in dude who just shot a woman but .... where's the evidence it did in this case? I'm probably just missing it. All I see is one Quranic verse that may be a bit "eye for an eyeish" but says nothing specific about cops. Spurious narrative may be right.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--bbDPvQYT--/wbtxr6zvrgxhnx24qbrn.jpg
catherine
12-23-14, 2:31pm
DH and I watched The Butler for the first time the other night.
There was one part where Forest Whitaker's son is taken to a Black Panther meeting, and the leader says "They [cops] take one of ours--we'll take two of theirs."
Well, DH and I looked at each other right away--that is exactly what Brinsley said in a Facebook post.
I agree with Jane--it all just goes 'round and 'round, sadly.
ApatheticNoMore
12-23-14, 2:59pm
What I was specifically looking for that led me to pose the last question (search engines failed me I think as I couldn't find them at all) is WHEN hostile police tweets or whatever were posted. If it was only after he shot his ex-girlfriend then clearly the guy is scared of the near inevitable being charged for his crime that is coming. Blaming the police at that point is clearly projection and a rationalization (yes blame the police because they are after you for having put a bullet in someone!). It's not remotely political. He knows he's facing the slammer or worse.
Whereas if there is a long history of anti-police tweets before then, then clearly he had a political beef with the police although obviously it wasn't all political, I mean one doesn't shoot an ex-girlfriend due to hating police.
What I was specifically looking for that led me to pose the last question (search engines failed me I think as I couldn't find them at all) is WHEN hostile police tweets or whatever were posted. If it was only after he shot his ex-girlfriend then clearly the guy is scared of the near inevitable being charged for his crime that is coming. Blaming the police at that point is clearly projection and a rationalization (yes blame the police because they are after you for having put a bullet in someone!). It's not remotely political. He knows he's facing the slammer or worse.
Whereas if there is a long history of anti-police tweets before then, then clearly he had a political beef with the police although obviously it wasn't all political, I mean one doesn't shoot an ex-girlfriend due to hating police.
I think you're right. I think that in all ages there are sick twitches out there looking to paint over their darker urges with some greater significance.
Of course there are lots of spurious narratives out there--we have corporate media. We can argue the specifics, but I like to go with the old aphorism "follow the money"--in other words. which version of the story most benefits the ruling class--to suss out the truth.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/fox-station-apologizes-to-black-lives-matter-protester-for-editing-chant-to-say-kill-a-cop/
Fox station apologizes to Black Lives Matter protester for editing chant to say ‘Kill a cop’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/fox-station-apologizes-to-black-lives-matter-protester-for-editing-chant-to-say-kill-a-cop/
Fox station apologizes to Black Lives Matter protester for editing chant to say ‘Kill a cop’
Busted again, Fox.
http://www.alternet.org/media/how-bill-de-blasio-schooled-right-wing-planted-reporter-guide-progressives
What the mayor actually says about protests and cops. and unlike the various right wing articles I've read, all freaked out over the mayor supporting cop killers, this one actually has video and transcript.
Spoiler alert, mayor Di Blasio is not in favor of people killing cops...
Teacher Terry
12-26-14, 12:58pm
A security guard in Vegas at a motel managed to shoot a guy in the leg that was charging him & the guy is not dead, did not bleed out & SG did not get hurt. guess he can do what cops can not.
Upthread I mentioned the survivalist movement. I had been thinking of the recent Cliven Bundy and BLM "standoff."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy
Bundy does not believe in the federal government, and he and his armed "sovereign citizen" cohorts prevented the BLM from collecting the grazing fees and fines, now totaling $1M. Bundy family members: " ... we will do whatever it takes." and "We're about ready to take the country over with force!"
With their guns were pointed at BLM employees, one of the armed militia was heard to say "I've got a clear shot at four of them." It ended peacefully because the police officers and BLM employees left.
The sovereign citizen movement is considered by the FBI as the nation's top domestic terrorism threat.
A security guard in Vegas at a motel managed to shoot a guy in the leg that was charging him & the guy is not dead, did not bleed out & SG did not get hurt. guess he can do what cops can not.I don't think so, it's more likely that just like virtually every other armed person he was unable to successfully hit center mass during the stressful act and got the leg instead.
Anyone who believes it's an easy task to wing an assailant should spend a day going through various threat scenario's in a live-fire house. It can be an eye-opening experience.
The current Media-Fed Fad is now Mawling. See, I made that word up--it is "Mall" and "Brawling" mashed together. Malls were formerly used as indoor shopping centers, and to some degree they still have businesses that specialize in helping people max out their credit cards. But, the primary purpose Malls serve now is as a Youth Hangout, and the epicenter of it is the "Food Court". You know that kids have lots of energy & hormones and tend to be hyper-everything. Well, don't they? So, it is a perfect venue for The Media to capture some action, when a fight occurs or the police try and apprehend a shoplifter stealing outrageously-priced sneakers(a felony), that kind of thing. The whole upward trend is for these to escalate into brawls, miniriots, and of course, be captured in real-time by bystanders on their sail fone. Then, this can be shown on the evening news and also posted on the net, on social media. This will foment an upward spike in the frequency of these incidents, and be covered on Tee-Vee, etc.. See? Old Fogeys like myself are then tricked into thinking: "What is this Country Coming to?", our perceptions distorted through manic media coverage. We will become even more reactionary and conservative and demand zero-tolerance Law and Order Policies. Well, little skirmishes have always occurred wherever teens/young adults are unsupervised and in large groups. But, we were different, right? At the same time, another counter-movement will arise, that specializes in protesting the perceived injustices to Our Youth, happening at Our Malls, but this will only galvanize the old fogey's(like mee) opposition to civil disorder. More Laws, more police, more jails. Maybe even re-institute the draft & lower standards for new recruits, to get these kids off the streets. See how that works? New Cable Channel: The Maul Brawl Channel, brought to you by Faux News. How do you like that?
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