View Full Version : wow, I am in awe
so my kids went to dad's for christmas today. i set a goal for myself to not pick on anything i heard about their holiday and gifts, can't do it. Sorry folks, just can't quite do it. So i will just minimize the impact of my awe by expressing it here and not all over my life.
a 17 year old kid got a vegetable peeler. No sh**, he got some other things but a vegetable peeler?
Look at it this way: Give a Kid a Carrot Stick, he will have a snack . Give a kid a vegetable peeler, he can make his own carrot sticks.
yeah, he does live with me and i am pretty sure we have a vegetable peeler. it is his sisters who live on their own, not my son. dad did get himself things like i-pads and remote control helicopters. However he will not get our son any of those unless he does the project with dad. 17 year olds just don't do that.
dad did give all the kids a book on conservative economics, this is so different than who he was when i met him. it is sad the kids don't know that person
dad did give all the kids a book on conservative economics, this is so different than who he was when i met him. it is sad the kids don't know that personThat wouldn't happen to be Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy by Thomas Sowell would it?
If so, that's a fine gift for anyone, but especially for young folks just starting out in the world.
Zoe Girl
12-25-14, 11:03pm
i think i am sorry i brought this up, this isn't about the book or the vegetable peeler as much as my sadness that dad has no relationship with the kids and shows that he is really out of touch with them. when they don't respond the way he expects he punishes them. i am sure there are many people who would agree with whatever he got them and see me as judgmental. that is part of it, the kids have things to deal with about him (he got both girls birthdays wrong this year, called them up on the wrong days, had no idea) but here and many other places people seem to think it is all fine.
((Hugs)) Zoe. It is hard to watch your children be neglected and hurt.
All kids have things to deal with about their parents. Just as we do with ours:-)
sweetana3
12-26-14, 6:53am
Zoe, there are many successful people out here in the world who have less than perfect relationships with parents. My dad died this year and for his whole 90 years, 60 of which he had kids, he only cared about himself. Or at least that is what we all felt. We all still turned out ok with careers and our own relationships. We just had to accept him for what little he could give.
The only contact he initiated in 30 years were his own Xmas letters about what he did during the year. We all knew and understood he was not going to change.
I think you just need to model acceptance and maturity for your son and show him that he can laugh or just accept his crazy immature dad. We did not write off our dad but our contact was not continuous or close.
i understand, and part of modeling my maturity is to come here and blow off the feelings for 3 minutes and then move on without dumping it on the kids or a lot of other people in my life. this isn't just a stupid vegetable peeler, really all of the last couple months of it all, him missing birthdays, leaving town for thanksgiving and not planning on telling the children, and then showing off all his great top of the line gadgets to a kid who has none of that.
Basically i failed them, i picked a sucky person and i spent a LOT of years with excellent financial management of his earning and trust fund. i was able to get things done like all the back taxes filed and paid, saving accounts for emergencies, etc. i got a good amount of support for a long time after the divorce but i have not earned very much. that means i cannot offer my kids the help that my family has offered me over the years, and i feel guilt over getting child support and some help but not being able to help my kids with college or training or anything. i just sat through a lot of family functions over the holidays and everyone assumes college for all the kids in the family, my nephews and niece assume they will go to college or at least have the chance. no one in my family can even comprehend that with a 6 figure salary he would not pay for any part of college, ever, even though he went on a trust fund.
i will hear all the stories of people who turned out okay despite difficulties, but i don't feel like i am one of them so i have no idea how to teach my kids to survive or thrive. this is my 3 minutes of dumping 3 months of crap, i am sure i will get over it just wanted to connect emotionally and move on.
catherine
12-26-14, 8:45am
A vegetable peeler does sound like a strange gift for a 17 year old boy, unless the boy has his own kitchen and loves to cook and he's currently peeling vegetables with a paring knife. Is this the case, ZoeGirl? :)
So feel free to vent. Reminds me of that scene in "A Home of Our Own" with Kathy Bates, where she gives each kid a tool or a box of nails, and the kids all started crying, perplexed.
But try not to translate a vegetable peeler into "I'm a sucky person." Really! You're doing everything you can, and when it comes down to it, all kids need to survive and thrive is love, respect, and the confidence and opportunity to figure things out for themselves. There are plenty of people who got free degrees, thanks to parents or grandparents, and plenty others who worked their butts off to do it on their own. I'd put my money on the ones who do it on their own, with the love and emotional support from their family.
BTW: A Home of Our Own is one of my favorite movies--great 'simple living' movie.
Sorry this happened, Zoegirl, but I decided some time ago to look at life's experiences as blessings or blessings in disguise, sometimes very well disguised. You and your children have gained by all this without a doubt - greater compassion, clearer ideas on personal values, enfolding and cherishing the goodness and kindness from others and so on. You cannot change others and their perceptions, however misguided they may appear to you. Take charge of your thoughts, feelings and actions and know that all the good that you do is the result of your growth and life-experiences. Lots of hugs coming your way!
Teacher Terry
12-26-14, 12:54pm
I can understand why you are upset. Good thing to vent here. As for college can your kids live at home & get grants or take student loans? The other thing for the 2 girls that are out on their own if it has been 2 years then their parents income no longer matters just so they aren't living at home when they get the aid. However, once they get it they can live with you & still get it.
ApatheticNoMore
12-26-14, 1:11pm
i will hear all the stories of people who turned out okay despite difficulties, but i don't feel like i am one of them
+1 Those who have no financial support to go to college may go but it's probably less likely, those who have no emotional support to go to college either may go, but it's less likely - because obstacles don't make things more likely. Financial support by itself may not be fatal, of course it helps if one is willing to take on debt.
Things may be blessing in disguise, so disguised till one day when you are 70 you finally find a use for them I guess!!! :~)
I do almost think getting gifts you don't want is the norm though. Though a vegetable peeler when you don't even live on your own is kind of silly.
rodeosweetheart
12-26-14, 1:39pm
I hear you, Zoe. Your posts on your ex are like deja vu all over again, to quote Yogi Berra. And yeah, I'm with apn, I am still waiting to see all the benefits to my kids of growing up with their dad as their dad. I still struggle a lot with guilt and shame that I selected that person and chose to build a life with him. However, I have to let myself off the hook, and let all of us off the hook as well. I am working hard these days not to compare myself with other families. It is really hard though at the holidays when I have to hear about how well my niece and nephew are doing professionally, as they had all those advantages that my kids lacked, with respect to a parent who was obligated to pay for college and did not.
As to the vegetable peeler, that too sounds just perfect as an example of narcissistic and bizarre behavior. Everyone always rushed to find a beneficient motive for my ex's weird behavior and there was none, he was just a strange, sick person who could be astonishingly cruel.
thank you all, i find even my own family many times looked for the good, that this person was certainly not truly like this. i must have misunderstood or it wasn't that bad. It is hard to make sense of it, but the narcissist behavior is truly bizarre at times.
My son also got an artistic welding class, he is interested in welding as a possible career. His dad however has issues with the kids using a car. He has flown into a rage over them asking to use a car or to get a ride to see friends or other reasonable support. So we will see when this class is offered, that was the thing that made my son angry. A class is great but after years and years of total disregard for anyone else's schedule it was the thing that my son actually got pissed off about.
I can hope a little on the higher ed thing, there is a reason that schools create programs to support kids in going to college. It is really hard, without support i see kids taking 8-10 years in many cases. i think peer support is essential as well. they see the kids who go to college as different, not anyone they know of course. Most of my oldest kid's friends are pretty survival level. This is very much an area that was affected by their dads behavior. He was so hard on our oldest in general once we divorced, not hard challenging but hard cruel. He never came to her art shows, school conferences, etc. He openly went after her verbally the way he went after me, and after 6 months of shared living she told him no more. She had tried to do it to protect her siblings. within 24 hours my middle kid called and was traumatized because she was next on the list. If they go to school and ask him for anything they are open to that again. But whoever said the parent income does not matter anymore, thank you. at least if they get the motivation after having their school efforts trashed they have more financial avenues.
okay i am doing much better. i had a visit where my mom did not criticize my house at all! and thank you for listening, especially those who understand what a NPD can do to people.
Tell you what: I may have an extra calendar around here, that my insurance agent gave me. Since I do not have a functional vegetable peeler in my kitchen drawer, I will gladly trade a calendar for the peeler. Does your son have his own calendar? The deal is, postage expense would probably negate any economic advantage to the trade. Thankk Mee, anyway.
SteveinMN
12-26-14, 3:18pm
"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better." -- Maya Angelou
Narcissistic behaviour is one of the cruelest behaviours as those on the outside cannot see what is happening because those individuals have learned to manipulate others to achieve their desires - a double whammy for the spouse and children.
a day-ish later i am back to where i normally am. feeling like few come out of these situations all that great and i am doing pretty well. the time between getting whalloped is longer and longer, the fear and wanting to disappear from everything since that was my only escape fades again. I actually have and had my kids which doesn't always happen. I did not have them turned against me or taken away. i held my own in the legal system! i mostly spoke for myself directly to the lawyers and mediators causing some to ask about my legal training. And the isolation of it all is lessened by the understanding here.
i still have fantasies of changing my name and moving away so i can never be found, i also get panic attacks when i get too much attention which affects work (the only violence and real serious lying and manipulations were around my success) but i know what they are. For the kids i can't do much except realize one good parent is sometimes all we get and it can be enough.
ZoeGirl, we use to have a list of friends who would call us on Christmas Day to find out what my DH's mom had sent him for Christmas. It always included all the freebies she had rec'd all year from her insurance company and investment company. At least her checks were good. :)
[QUOTE=Float On;193724 At least her checks were good. :)[/QUOTE]
that is better than my former FIL!
I, like others, totally support your right to vent. Please, please give yourself time and space to do it.
I have similar issues with my kid's father and I know my mom had similar issues with my dad.
Here's what I tell myself: while I can't turn my SO into the kind of dad, I want him to be, I can model to my daughter a way to live with his limitations without resentment and with joy.
I can definitely say my SO has some great qualities and I can appreciate those while also not enabling him when he's inconsiderate. This means sometimes my daughter hears me tell my SO (in a fair, respectful tone) when I think he's not being respectful or thoughtful. It also means that I don't make my happiness dependent on my SO, so if I want something from him, I'm not getting (a nice dinner out on my birthday, for lack of a better example), I can get that need met another way (go out with girlfriends or take myself out).
I really think parenting is not about having made perfect choices in our lives but about modeling for our kids how creatively and joyfully we can work with the choices we have made.
I, like others, totally support your right to vent. Please, please give yourself time and space to do it.
I have similar issues with my kid's father and I know my mom had similar issues with my dad.
Here's what I tell myself: while I can't turn my SO into the kind of dad, I want him to be, I can model to my daughter a way to live with his limitations without resentment and with joy.
I can definitely say my SO has some great qualities and I can appreciate those while also not enabling him when he's inconsiderate. This means sometimes my daughter hears me tell my SO (in a fair, respectful tone) when I think he's not being respectful or thoughtful. It also means that I don't make my happiness dependent on my SO, so if I want something from him, I'm not getting (a nice dinner out on my birthday, for lack of a better example), I can get that need met another way (go out with girlfriends or take myself out).
I really think parenting is not about having made perfect choices in our lives but about modeling for our kids how creatively and joyfully we can work with the choices we have made.
+1 Well expressed!
rodeosweetheart
12-29-14, 2:38am
"I really think parenting is not about having made perfect choices in our lives but about modeling for our kids how creatively and joyfully we can work with the choices we have made."
I like your emphasis on positive thinking, EJChase!
On the other hand, sometimes parenting is modeling the ability to recognize that something is sick in the way someone treats others, and to model the fact that they do not have to accept abuse.
(I am not saying the peeler gift is abuse, obviously.)
So when my husband threw my son's crutches down the stairs and demanded he walk on his broken foot, good parenting demanded that action be classified as abuse and the child being protected from his father as much as possible, as much as the law would allow.
Just saying, sometimes it is not enough to work creatively with the choices we have made, if they are very bad choices.
good distinction, and important. the peeler is not abuse, but dad was on the border a lot of the time. He was damaging, not sure if i could claim abuse. the peeler just triggered a lot of old stuff however.
But this is a good point overall, i have heard a lot of the positive thinking stuff applied to the hard stuff in my life. i am sure i have been guilty of it as well to others. it is rather rampant. it doesn't always apply, it isn;t always reality. not every abused kid gets all better and ors to college, not every single mom ends up with a great career instead of a lifetime of low income. so there is creativity, and then there is reality and being really tough about things.
rodeo, i recall getting a call from a neighbor, it was dad's time and she saw my daughter waiting for a ride on crutches outside the school. he totally wasn't going to pick her up. he 'forgot' or got confused. Sometimes 'forgetting' is not an excuse any more.
Zoe, you might want to try stepping back from the constant judgements. Truly, it is for your benefit, not his. Try to purposely find the examples that go against your notion that he is an ass. Focus on those, not the ones that confirm what you already strongly believe. It does your emotional health no good to keep the negativity going.
Yes, I agree with Reyes. The vegetable peeler gift was a bit quirky, but practical and not abusive. Had he given him a Pizza Wheel, I might think differently. You kids know how I feel about Pizza. Hope that helps you some.
yeah, i know that and not there yet. thank you for listening to me here, of course this is not so much a vegetable peeler as years of being screamed at for not being a good mom,and i don't want to talk about that. i talk here so it doesn't take over my life, talk to everyone in real life about it, that is one step in getting over t. Somehow it seems easier to take the twice yearly verbal stuff he deals out if i feel 'prepared' and guarded.
what so far has been pretty helpful is doing the mediation. so far it seems at least one person or both is out of touch with what is reasonable and part of the process is to help them facilitate a conversation that has a reality moment. the actual mediation information is confidential but the process is something i can talk about.
Aqua Blue
12-29-14, 2:24pm
I think learning to laugh at some of it is a good idea. I can still bring my sister to tears of laughter by saying right before a meal, "Well, if you need silverware you are going to have to wash some-it's in the dishwasher...." Said for an Easter meal with ham, scalloped potatoes, and green bean casserole. We didn't invite ourselves, we were invited. I said on the way home perhaps where she comes from they don't eat those things with silverware.
The same person(my sister wasn't there that time), cleaned house the whole time we were there for a Thanksgiving meal and again she invited us. I mean vacuumed, dusted washed the kitchen floor, cleaned the bathrooms etc. No family has the corner on crazy, they are pretty evenly distributed among pretty much all families.
Zoe, I think one of the benefits of mediation is the opportunity to see first hand how very differently parties can perceive a conflict and/or exchange. That may be helpful to you in in your own conflicts.
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