Work slowdown by the police in NYC.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just read online at yahoo.com news that officials in NYC are acknowledging that there has been a widespread work slowdown by the police in NYC recently. I don't know what to make of this. One the one hand, less police state stopping and frisking and racial profiling - a good thing. On the other hand, the pensions of the police did not slowdown their accumulating during this period - I resent how the police just seem to be above consequences for their behavior period. On the other hand, they must be very stressed out after the shootings of the two officers in Brooklyn and by having shots fired at officers recently in the Bronx. On this one I am ambivalent but am resentful their pensions continued to accumulate during the slowdown - something should be done about that in my book. Something needs to be done about how policing works in the US period - with the highest incarceration rate in the world and the largest number of prisoners in the world (though this second may be due to our large population in the US) and with people I know afraid to be outside after dark (due to police, not due to criminals) something is really not working with policing and criminal justice in the United States.

I only hope that now these issues are on the table - as more police brutality/violence against the police takes place, eventually something is done. It's just getting too fear based out there now - is this what the founding fathers envisioned America to be? Rob

[Alan]

I'm not sure what the issue is with pensions. It seems to me that if you make the argument that police pensions should suffer for racial profiling and stop & frisk activities, and also believe that police pensions should suffer for the lack of racial profiling and stop & frisk activities, you're really saying that you don't want the public sector to have pensions. What's up with that?

[Teacher Terry]

Firefighters & cops really need their pensions because the work is so tough physically that their bodies wear out at a younger age & they don't live as long either. If you want a pension get a job in public employment somewhere so you can get one.

[bae]

Rob really gets wrapped around the axle about pensions, for whatever reason.

I'm curious what level of policing Rob would find acceptable, and what level of compensation he would recommend providing officers?

[Packy]

I am going to get a couple million of those Reactionary bumper stickers printed up that say: "If You Don't Like The Police---Next Time You Need Help, Call A Protester!" Let me know how many you kids want, and I'll save you some. Hope that helps you some.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I'm not sure what the issue is with pensions. It seems to me that if you make the argument that police pensions should suffer for racial profiling and stop & frisk activities, and also believe that police pensions should suffer for the lack of racial profiling and stop & frisk activities, you're really saying that you don't want the public sector to have pensions. What's up with that?My issue with the police having pensions is this - America has now sunk to a new low where the police can kill under very questionable circumstances and get off scott free. This is bad enough, but the fact that they get off scott free and with a pension - totally immune to the consequences of their behavior - what is in it for any of us to remain in this country long term? To me that they can get off after committing murder with a pension is the height of corruption, no different from a third world country that those well off might very well look down on. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob really gets wrapped around the axle about pensions, for whatever reason.

I'm curious what level of policing Rob would find acceptable, and what level of compensation he would recommend providing officers?I'm not against the level of compensation the police receive, nor even their pensions per se. What I am against is the police being above the law and/or legal consequences for their illegal actions coupled with receiving a pension. This is far too corrupt and third world like to me - though to be fair in many ways I have perceived America to be third world since the mid 90's or so. In other words, I shouldn't be shocked that this is so. It just riles me up to no end that the police can kill under questionable circumstances and get off scott free and with a pension intact. Too third world for me - if I'm to accept third world conditions to this extent, I want the good that comes from living in much of the third world. Colorful crafts and marketplaces, family values, a tendency to a slower pace of life, more colorful surroundings as most of the world's poor can afford cheap paint - these would be examples. It doen't work for me that I am expected to accept the first without getting the second in return. Rob
,

[mtnlaurel]

Those men & women put their lives on the line every day for us. I am grateful for their service and have no issues with civil servants receiving pensions.... as long as it makes economic sense and the pensions are self-sustainable.

Rob - Did I just read your post correctly that you are 'ambivalent' that the officers were gunned down?
Surely I misread that.

Yes, some of them are not good at their jobs. Those people need to be rooted out and shown the filing room or fired all together.
And the rooting out needs to take place before lives are needlessly lost.
There may be towns that have a corroded system, that needs to be addressed too.

Are you in the Phoenix area?
Here is a volunteer program with the Mesa Police Department.
http://www.mpdjobs.com/volunteer-in-police-services-VIPS
I know none of us are long on time, but if it is a topic that you are passionate about a program like this would give you a bird's eye view all the issues that the police deal with on a daily basis.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Those men & women put their lives on the line every day for us. I am grateful for their service and have no issues with civil servants receiving pensions.... as long as it makes economic sense and the pensions are self-sustainable.

Rob - Did I just read your post correctly that you are 'ambivalent' that the officers were gunned down?
Surely I misread that.

Yes, some of them are not good at their jobs. Those people need to be rooted out and shown the filing room or fired all together.
And the rooting out needs to take place before lives are needlessly lost.
There may be towns that have a corroded system, that needs to be addressed too.

Are you in the Phoenix area?
Here is a volunteer program with the Mesa Police Department.
http://www.mpdjobs.com/volunteer-in-police-services-VIPS
I know none of us are long on time, but if it is a topic that you are passionate about a program like this would give you a bird's eye view all the issues that the police deal with on a daily basis.I'm sorry if my meaning was not clear. No, I am not ambivalent about police officers being gunned down and I have posted this a few times recently. I am not for the police being shot any more than I am for the shooting death of Micheal Brown nor the questionable circumstances in the Eric Garner case.

What I am ambivalent about is the work slowdown by the NYC police, and I'm sorry if my meaning was not clear. I see both good and bad in the work slowdown. Rob

[LDAHL]

I've been hearing more expressions of pension envy over the past few years. Maybe due to economic uncertainty, or maybe due to our aging population.

I have to admit that I'm very glad to participate in a defined benefit plan, although it's not nearly as generous as people imagine it to be. Our plan requires the employee and employer to each contribute about 7% of salary. Increases are not automatic, but dependent on how the investment portfolio performs. A few places, like California and Illinois, with poorly designed and badly managed plans have tended to give public pensions in general a bad reputation.

[Tradd]

I am going to get a couple million of those Reactionary bumper stickers printed up that say: "If You Don't Like The Police---Next Time You Need Help, Call A Protester!" Let me know how many you kids want, and I'll save you some. Hope that helps you some.

I'd like some that say, "Pants up! Don't loot!"

[Packy]

When I read "To Protect And To Serve" about the LAPD and the events leading up to the King Event, there was background on the organization. Briefly, it said that when Bill Parker took over as chief in 1950, there was a problem with corruption. So, he took some measures to address it. One, made the consequences of corruption very clear. Two, put the police in patrol cars, paired up. This way, they didn't interact so closely with street people, and had a peer in their company at all times. Three, He believed in better, more qualified candidates with better pay and benefits as an incentive for applicants, and to retain experienced personnel. A higher degree of professionalism. This strategy, as opposed to lowering standards & pay to allow hiring as many people as possible. Quality over Quantity. Okay, okay--After a few decades, there were some unintended consequences. But, most of it was not related to the fundamental scheme I've mentioned. But, the goal of reducing corruption and that kind of impropriety, and improving morale was accomplished. The LAPD was a well-respected organization, by the middle-and upper class in L.A.; but by Criminals & Ghetto dwellers, not so much. My point is, top-down policy and procedures and the level of skill and the morale that policemen have is directly correlated to their performance. Pensions, will help retain experienced people. You can't just hire just anyone for cheap, hand them a gun, and put them out in the street, keeping the peace. See? It seems like it was Clinton, (or was it Bush I in his war on drugs), that got into this Quantity Precedes Quality mindset, vowing to put a million more cops on the street. I think that might be one(not the only one) major reason we are having some of the problems we see. They did that here, and yes--we have too darn many cops, now. You are more likely to be confronted by a cop, than a robber, ever since the law enforcement tax hike passed. But, it's quantity, not quality. That's the problem with the po-lice. See? Next, we need to have better quality citizens......

[Lainey]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/10/the-nypd-slowdown-s-dirty-little-secret.html#

Interesting article about the ambivalence of many police to arrest people for petty crimes like open container, etc. Maybe this slowdown is a way to get back to a middle ground.

[Teacher Terry]

Packy, great &n informative post & I agree with you.

[Tradd]

Good post, Packy.

[catherine]

This is not exactly on topic, but it relates to the pension issue for public servants. I don't begrudge the police their pensions, but I did roll my eyes over this news item about the Harvard employees being upset that they have to contribute 9% to their healthcare costs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenbrozak/2015/01/09/harvard-professors-balk-as-obamacare-comes-to-cambridge/

Here's a quote:


In the case of the Harvard faculty one must ask if they are making a bold stand for egalitarian healthcare coverage or whining because they are being required to share the cost of healthcare. Most employees have had to wrestle with the confusing and often gut-wrenching impact of increasing healthcare costs for many years now. It is time that those in the ivory tower experience some of the challenges most of us face daily.

Amen to that.

Sorry for the semi-hijack.

[ApatheticNoMore]

9%, well there are probably places they could get 100% coverage, but it would be an HMO. I suggest they quit their Harvard jobs, get a private sector job, take the HMO with no contribution necessary and trust me no HMO is good enough to fall under the Cadillac plan. And oh since it will be private sector jobs no pensions.

Pension envy? This is what it's like when Gen X and the millennial finally wake up to the fact they were screwed and that's it's in many ways hopeless for them no matter what they do (of course since everything else is hopeless retirement may be the least of their worries). I mean if they are going to cut Social Security as well is anyone going to be able to retire with almost no social security, no pension, ever more expensive Medicare, and maybe 500k in a 401k which is about what they put in? (since they performed so poorly and employer matching was negligible) Yea right. That might be ok except for the fact that noone hires the geriatric either except I have heard Wallmart. Fa la la la la la ... live for today.

Contributing 7% to get a 7% match - uh I don't know if any company with 401ks who have matching have matching this good, I've certainly never heard of such a thing (matching is usually maybe 3% when IT'S GOOD) I've seldom had much matching of course, and one company where I did have it briefly, has now eliminated for those who are still there (as a profitable company to keep stock prices up, they took away an existing employee benefit that didn't even produce any long term liabilities like a pension does - chutzpah there).

[bae]

Yup, Gen X and Millenials sure have it rough...

http://hoovervillehistory.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hooverville.jpg

http://heathercreamer.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/3/3/26336416/2950340_orig.jpg

http://healthsciencedegree.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/great-depression-dust-bowl-families.jpg

[jp1]

So, because someone else had/has it worse people should just shut up and be happy? If that's the case all the people griping about how awful it is that the cops got shot should look at what people in various middle eastern countries have to live with every day and also shut up and be happy.

[Teacher Terry]

Pensions gave the middle class a decent retirement & it is sad to see many of those go away.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Pensions gave the middle class a decent retirement & it is sad to see many of those go away.I can see more and more that it's a blessing that I have lived the way I have and had the experiences that I have had. Long ago I realized that for me, there were two choices. Either work until I am dead or leave the US on what I have saved for somewhere less expensive so that I could have a season of rest. As things get more expensive and wages don't rise, I think this realization is going to hit more and more people. Luckily in my case anyway it won't be any great tragedy to flee, but I can understand where it might be a bitter pill to swallow for those who were once middle class and can't reach the middle class again. Rob

[Tradd]

On my phone so I can't easily link to the article, but NYPD brass is now saying no vacation time, no sick time until officers begin issuing summons again for things like open containers of alcohol. Note, though: these are the sorts of things that bring in revenue. I thought that from the beginning.

[bae]

...NYPD brass is now saying no vacation time, no sick time until officers begin issuing summons again for things like open containers of alcohol.

That should go over well with the union....

[Reyes]

Colorful crafts and marketplaces, family values, a tendency to a slower pace of life, more colorful surroundings as most of the world's poor can afford cheap paint - these would be examples. It doen't work for me that I am expected to accept the first without getting the second in return. Rob
,

I can't imagine being so unhappy about my place of residence and not doing anything about it. You could move, you know:-)

[Tradd]

I can't imagine being so unhappy about my place of residence and not doing anything about it. You could move, you know:-)

I wonder if it has something to do with the Mexican income requirements.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fulano_de_tal/2012/nov/09/newly-issued-mexican-immigration-regulations-are-b/#

An applicant for Residente Permanente must show either the same 20,000 days minimum wage in investments or a monthly employment or pension income of 500 times the minimum wage. That would be $2,365 dollars per month of income. A married couple would require $3,548 per month of income.