View Full Version : How to deal with terroists?
I've been thinking a lot about this. They seem to be in massive numbers and are popping up everywhere.
How can we ever control their hatred/destruction/rampages? I know it's not an easy answer......so many complex parts to it.
They are like a cancer that is metastasizing. As long as people can come and go fairly freely/easily from country to county; as long as there is internet; as long as there are people with so much hatred in their hearts just looking for a way of expressing it, I'm a little pessimistic that we can get on top of this.
What do you think we might do to keep these horrible slaughters from happening?
I will say this...remember when the USS Cole was bombed (2000) then this happened and it was just a blip on the radar- no one was really overly concerned?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan
Look at the timeline since these incidents- they become bigger and more aggressive and I feel like we are all (globally) one step behind because we all (globally) have let it happen in the name of not wanting to offend a group of people who will stop at nothing NOTHING to terrorize this world. Those doing the terrorizing adapt quickly and are not afraid to do what needs to be done. Would we (globally) just as bad as them? I don't know how to answer that but I know I would rather stand up and fight than back down to anyone who wishes harm on people that is blatant and calculated.
Stopping them- straight forward- we need to grow a set, stop chasing our tail and being Politically correct- whatever that is, and get to gettin'. It's going to take a cooperative effort around the world as well as standing up and not tolerating it.
Assassinate their leaders. Destroy their facilities. Treat their funders as the enemies that they are. Set one faction against another. Be willing to pay the costs in blood and treasure that opposing tyranny has always imposed. Laugh at their preposterous ideologies. Recognize that no amount of appeasement will change their thinking.
I'm surprised the mainstream Muslim leaders have not come forward with a stronger statement condemning the extremists and discrediting their actions as a part of their religious teachings. Seems to me like that would go a long way. I noticed there is a movement in Germany to restrict Muslim immigration, which doesn't seem like a good solution.
TxZen.......I agree with you. We are trying to be too nice.....to reasonable, too civil with them. I think it's going to take some drastic things on our part........even if it means immigration restriction. I mean seriously. I think we are incredibly naive and, in this case, hindered by our notion of "give me your tired, your poor,......" We should be more concerned with quality and not quantity.
I know we are bombing a lot of their supposed meeting places, but it's going to take more than that. And unfortunately, some civilians might be killed. We have a rather unreasonable notion of things in this country, because it's not had a war on our homeland.......because we have been mostly well-protected because of our laws.
I don't know what the answer is......but it's time for the gloves to come off.
Rogar.........I've been hearing that a lot. I think one of the participants on one of the Sunday morning TV news shows said their silence was because they were afraid of the repercussions if they spoke out.
This is such a mess.
What makes me sad is the loss of really old cultures.........France for example. I believe they have the biggest group of muslim immigrants anywhere and they are very poor.......and like many groups of immigrants these days, they don't really want to assimilate into the host culture. Shouldn't immigrants (at this point in time........not the early 1900's) have something to offer the U.S., other than poverty? But we're afraid of denying anyone anything for fear of looking unkind/politically incorrect/un-civilized. It's time to get some common sense. It's time to make a few changes to "The American Dream."
iris lilies
1-13-15, 1:56pm
I'm surprised the mainstream Muslim leaders have not come forward with a stronger statement condemning the extremists and discrediting their actions as a part of their religious teachings. Seems to me like that would go a long way. I noticed there is a movement in Germany to restrict Muslim immigration, which doesn't seem like a good solution.
I was interested to see which moderate Muslim countries sent emissaries to Paris for the march in support of Charlie Hebdo. Egypt and Turkey did, among others.
However, the article I read about that was snide about both of those countries' hypocritical action in Paris since both of them regularly jail journalists for wrong-speak.
gimmethesimplelife
1-13-15, 2:01pm
This is a very good question and I'm going to be honest, I really don't have an answer for you. I believe that if someone wants to plot a terrorist act, it is going to be very hard to nip it in the bud before it starts. And I don't know what to make of Islam. I have something interesting to post here that ties into terrorism. It is possible that I may be visiting Austria again, as my mother wants to go home to her people to visit as she is not getting any younger, and she doesn't want to go alone. Due to the death of a close friend of our family, she can afford to go and is willing to pay for my way over. Not a small amount of money, airfares being what they are. She also wants to visit Madrid and also Tangier, Morocco, to buy some Moroccan crafts. Very nice rugs and nice elaborate metal crafts along with other functional goodies (in other words, not just junk, functional things you can use) are available there cheaper than in the US by far.
Then I realized Morocco is an Islamic country. This in and of itself does not deter me from going BUT I wonder how safe it is? Then I remember that I feel unsafe in my neighborhood at night due to the police here and I realize that innocence is gone and there is no complete safety anywhere these days. And that's my point, there is a new normal here that I believe we are stuck with, that being there is no complete safety anywhere. And unless there are some tragic headlines in Rabat or Casablanca or another Moroccan city before we go - we'll go to Morocco and take our chances. Rob
Assassinate their leaders. Destroy their facilities. Treat their funders as the enemies that they are. Set one faction against another. Be willing to pay the costs in blood and treasure that opposing tyranny has always imposed. Laugh at their preposterous ideologies. Recognize that no amount of appeasement will change their thinking.
Absolutely. We have to come down on them hard. We've been too nice. We need to quit the PC crap about being unable to profile possible terrorists because they're Muslim.
I saw this article this morning and smiled.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html
IshbelRobertson
1-13-15, 2:36pm
The Daily Wail is a racist, xenophobic, homophobic red top paper.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Kill them. Destroy where they come from. Kill their families and children. Kill any who lend them aid or shelter. Kill those who tolerate their presence. Render their lands uninhabitable.
https://www.happytellus.com/img/tunisia/carthage-ruins_5773.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1994-041-07,_Dresden,_zerst%C3%B6rtes_Stadtzentrum.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Shizuoka_following_United_States_air_raids.jpg
http://www.japanfocus.org/data/nagasaki_bomb.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/19/article-2311627-02F394F50000044D-112_638x476.jpg
I attended a Jimmy Buffet concert a long time ago before terrorism was so extreme and popular. He suggested flying big cargo planes over the areas and dropping thousands of Victoria Secrets catalogs.
It's not just religion based violent terrorism. Cyber terrorism is just starting and I'd guess training programs for that are going to blossom.
Bae.....hmmmm...........That's helpful..........
I attended a Jimmy Buffet concert a long time ago before terrorism was so extreme and popular. He suggested flying big cargo planes over the areas and dropping thousands of Victoria Secrets catalogs.....
Brilliant! :D Kind of like "Make love, not war" --always a good principal to live by.
Match a few fanatical religionists with a lot of under-employed, disaffected, hormone-droven youth and a grievance or two (perceived or real) and you have a formula for mayhem every time. Terrorism, like wars, would not exist without eager foot-soldiers. Maybe a solid jobs program and a phalanx of government-paid hookers would do the trick (pun intended).
And since I haven't seen it mentioned here, we should not forget the Muslim police officer among the first the assassins cut down, and the Muslim kosher grocery worker who shepherded customers to safety in a meat locker and alerted the gendarmes. And the thousands of Muslims who demonstrated. This is not a religious issue; this is a fanatic issue.
Fanatics of any religion are a form of terrorism in many ways.
Let's not forget, about the time that Paris was being shot up:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/09/africa/boko-haram-violence/
And what ever happened to all those kidnapped schoolgirls?
#we_care_hashtag
I was just thinking about those decades when the Irish Republican Army comprised the only terrorists (or freedom fighters, depending on your outlook) in Europe.
And you're right bae, nobody's talking about bombing to stop Boko Haram's reign of terror.
I’m assuming, or at least hoping, that some the bloodlust expressed in some of these posts is intended ironically.
The US War on Terror appears to have been about as successful as the War on Drugs. I hope that the French have learned the perils of overreaction from the US experience and don’t embark on a course of action that results in pissing away a trillion dollars and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people. I hope they’ve learned the No. 1 lesson of post-911 America: Fear makes you stupid.
The West isn’t at war with terrorists. Terrorists are criminals. Preventing attacks like the one in France is a law enforcement problem, not a military or a political one.
It is true that several European countries have a problem that is less of an issue in the US. Whereas most US Muslims are pretty assimilated, for various historical reasons there are sizeable segments of Muslim communities in Europe who have no interest in becoming British, French, or whatever. But that just means that law enforcement agencies in those countries need to be extra vigilant in watching those segments.
But that just means that law enforcement agencies in those countries need to be extra vigilant in watching those segments.
When the Department of Homeland Security does that they call it profiling.
I find the whole Muslim = terrorist = Mulsim / kill them all thing very disturbing. It wasn't so long ago Europe was a test bed for getting rid of "those" people who were branded as out to destroy their way of life.
I know a German muslim, she was here studying to become a dentist - she volunteered every week at the place I do. There was not an unkind bone in her whole body. I hope she's not getting too much grief at home just because she's one of "them".
I’m assuming, or at least hoping, that some the bloodlust expressed in some of these posts is intended ironically.
The US War on Terror appears to have been about as successful as the War on Drugs. I hope that the French have learned the perils of overreaction from the US experience and don’t embark on a course of action that results in pissing away a trillion dollars and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people. I hope they’ve learned the No. 1 lesson of post-911 America: Fear makes you stupid.
The West isn’t at war with terrorists. Terrorists are criminals. Preventing attacks like the one in France is a law enforcement problem, not a military or a political one.
It is true that several European countries have a problem that is less of an issue in the US. Whereas most US Muslims are pretty assimilated, for various historical reasons there are sizeable segments of Muslim communities in Europe who have no interest in becoming British, French, or whatever. But that just means that law enforcement agencies in those countries need to be extra vigilant in watching those segments.
+1
And I also think we need to address another root cause: our insatiable need for Middle East oil. We pay the Saudis for oil, the Saudias fund madrassas to appease the fanatics, and the fanatics recruit the young unemployed, and the cycle continues.
I've also heard that prostitutes are offered to these fanatical young men - who can resist the opportunity to fight for your religion, plus money and free sex?
flowerseverywhere
1-13-15, 10:41pm
Let's not forget, about the time that Paris was being shot up:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/09/africa/boko-haram-violence/
And what ever happened to all those kidnapped schoolgirls?
#we_care_hashtag
Young black girls from a country with no oil? You think anyone seriously cares? What's in it for us?
I think ink everyone who thinks we should shed blood would put on a uniform and shoot the enemy on foreign soil in these areas. I was just in south east Asia, I have no idea how our POW'S in WWII or Vietnam era soldiers did it. Hot and humid (and this was December) , snakes, Mosquitos. And the Middle East was no picnic for our Iraq/Afghanistan troops. Sandstorms, IED'S, heat. Plus people are shooting at you, sending in scud missiles, booby trapping and suicide bombing you... War is really awful.
Anyone have any ideas about how to handle the terrorist problem? I'm not really sure what some of you are saying. It's easy to think any kind of destruction of anyone/anything is wrong......when we're sitting here so comfortable and fairly unaffected. And I really would prefer straight-forward answers of what to do......and not just what we shouldn't do.
I’m assuming, or at least hoping, that some the bloodlust expressed in some of these posts is intended ironically.
The US War on Terror appears to have been about as successful as the War on Drugs. I hope that the French have learned the perils of overreaction from the US experience and don’t embark on a course of action that results in pissing away a trillion dollars and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people. I hope they’ve learned the No. 1 lesson of post-911 America: Fear makes you stupid.
The West isn’t at war with terrorists. Terrorists are criminals. Preventing attacks like the one in France is a law enforcement problem, not a military or a political one.
+2
If a person of any race or religion, especially a young man, walked into any public or semi-public place in the United States with several firearms and shot a bunch of people dead we would call that....Tuesday.
Fearing the France attack because it was fanatical Muslims and being all scared of "the Muslim terrorists" is like being totally freaked out by all schizophrenics because of (Santa Barbara, Newtown, Aurora, Tuscon, Virginia Tech, etc etc etc if any of those were even schizophrenic). Most Muslims would never do this, and most schizophrenics can't get dressed on their own. While there will likely always be people killing other people even with their bare hands in the case that they lack weapons, there are probably a number of factors that drive a few people to mass kill. The first thing that needs to happen is that the potential perp needs to believe he can do it. This is aided and abetted by tiny, extreme internet groups in many but not all cases. The second thing is that the perp needs to acquire weapons and knowledge to use them. Again, aided and abetted by the internet but certainly not the only source. The third thing is that the perp needs to have some major burning desire to get rid of some type of enemy. This can stem from a mental illness/personality disorder, singular thinking (there's that extremist stuff again!) and/or hopelessness of other solutions, or hope for fame/glory. I'm sure folks who study this stuff know way more but the point is that while there are patterns, blocking immigration won't stop terrorism: Oklahoma City, the vast myriad of mass shootings, random bombings, etc show that for the US.
If someone is angry, hopeless, single-minded, psychopathic, depressed and hoping to make an impact on the world any way he can, the result is sometimes terrorism. Religion is an excuse, virginity is an excuse, bullying is an excuse, politics is an excuse. But most of the time those are the excuses, not the underlying reason. That said, increasing the proportion of people who are angry, depressed, hopeless and who grow up in a chaotic world is a great way to increase the number of would-be terrorists. Bombing places for example, would help create these conditions. Increasing oligarchy over democracy would help create these conditions. Increasing the instability of the climate will help create these conditions. We have some work to do but we are running in the wrong direction.
I think lumping mass-shootings in the USA (of which we have ~20/year) into the same category as, say, flying airliners into skyscrapers or exterminating 1000 people in a village is perhaps an error in analysis, and unlikely to produce useful approaches to solutions.
You kids are correct, but let me throw my 2 cents in, just for fun. The big news is, in Ohio, Spectator-Sports Fanatics rioted, this weekend. Rioting, over a dumb game! See what I mean about how senseless football is? As for the incident in Paris, City Of Love: France is a country of close to oh, 70 million, and multicultural in that there are many immigrants from the Middle East. So, it stands to reason that, just like Callyfornians moving up North, or back east, down South, to get away from it all, there will be a tendency to "bring it with 'em". See? How many terrorists were there? Well, divide that number by 70 million, and you'll get a percentage, Okay? Then, divide the number of Ferguson Rioters, add it to the number of Ohio Football Rioters, and divide it by 300 million, the approx. pop of the USA. Add Canada, too, since they are culturally similar. Then, compare. My point is, all this hoopla is another Media Fest. Magnifying the perverse acts of a tiny minority of unbalanced people caught up in fanatic behavior. The only purpose it serves( besides increasing Fox viewership)is just to get the Hyper-Neocons and others in this Country stirred up, rallying for a Religious War! A completely self-destructive foible of Human nature--like sports fanaticism. As if it, war, is a Football Game. Our Side VS Theirs. Go Team Go!! You Do Support The Troops Fighting For Our Freedom, don't you? You do fear Islam, don't you? Don't tell me you're not a true Patriot.. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
flowerseverywhere
1-14-15, 7:34am
Cathy A, the solution won't be easy for sure but maybe some of these ideas will work
first we as a country need to get our act together. our system of checks and balances means our leaders have to work as a team to solve problems, not all these power struggles and one upmanship and reelection strategies. Do what you are being paid to do. The behavior of our elected leaders is at times ridiculous and shameful.
Second, immigration reform. See above.
Third, firm policies dealing with radicalization. A ban on visiting certain countries where training camps are known to be and returning to the U.S. Harsher sentences for terrorist activities.
Fourth world unity. Countries that are dealing with terrorism need to band together to share information on known terrorists, plan strategies and work towards a common goal of freedom for all. No one country can go it alone.
fifth, listen to our military leaders on what they need and don't need. Spend our money wisely.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congress-obama-hand-pentagon-billions-for-unwanted-military-spending-programs/article/2557699
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html
Thank you flowerseverywhere! That's what I'm looking for, in terms of a discussion here............not how I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill and there's no problem other than the media, or what's in my perception.
A friend of the family was beheaded by ISIS not long ago....so maybe it's a little more real to me. It's not that their numbers are so big in comparison to the whole world........it's their deadly tactics, and the number of people it can kill at one time (remember 9-11?). And let's get one thing straight.........I am in no way saying this is a general Muslim problem....so let that go.
I just like having conversations about these things. Some people want to minimize them or insinuate I'm worried about nothing. I figured this would be a good place to have a discussion about it. Maybe I was wrong.
But flowerseverywhere........I do appreciate your reply, and I do agree with you in the points you mentioned.
Cathy, since you encouraged discussion about this issue I'm wondering what you would do about this problem.
Not everyone who believes in fighting back against avowedly Muslim terrorists is somehow an anti-Muslim bigot.
Not everyone who believes in self-defense is overcome by insatiable bloodlust.
It would be nice if we could end terrorism by distributing cultural and economic goodies. It would also be nice to make it rain chocolate.
Having worldwide interests does not make you a predatory empire.
Writhing in guilt over real or imagined past sins is a poor solution for terrorism.
Fighting back against one particular terrorist group does not mean you’re indifferent to the victims of some other terrorist group.
If you're waiting for "world unity" on terrorism (or global warming or the metric system) you will be waiting a very long time indeed.
rodeosweetheart
1-14-15, 10:57am
Cathy, I read your initial post with interest and was going to write that I did not know, but that I would be interested in reading responses. I didn't, and I have been thinking about it while I have been reading the responses and the only solutions I can think of are spiritual in nature, and probably not what anyone is looking for.
It's a different world today. What the U.S. believed in was fine in the 1700-1800s, but I see sticking with some of those principles is being self-destructive.
I think we need to have safer borders, and as was mentioned above, a ban on travel to those countries that are training these people...and harsher treatment for those who are in any way involved in our own country. I don't mind losing a few freedoms to keep the majority of people safer.
Just because I ask a question doesn't mean I have the answers. That's what this post was about.
This country (and world) is never going to be all butterflies and puppy dogs. In fact, I feel it's heading towards some very ugly times. I see a fair number of people here who seem to be sort of unrealistic towards how to deal with these problems.....since we're supposed to be open to everyone. Is it being "blood-thirsty" to want to talk about how to control these murderers?
I liken our country (or any country) to a family. Should we take in people who are at very high risk for destroying the family? Should we not have rules for the family members, to keep the family safe?
And some here think I'm being a "the sky is falling" kind of person. And there will always be certain people here to just like to disagree with anyone.
My original question was how do we deal with groups of people who are dead-set on killing other people? If you think this is a stupid question......then just find other posts to read.
I asked the question because I thought it was worthy of discussion.
And yes, I'm disgusted with our leaders too.
There are so many people "in solidarity" about things, but nothing seems to make a difference. How can we make a difference?
catherine
1-14-15, 11:11am
I just like having conversations about these things. Some people want to minimize them or insinuate I'm worried about nothing. I figured this would be a good place to have a discussion about it. Maybe I was wrong.
I think the responses to your posts are kind of thin because the answers fall under the "things we can't control" category. Denying the issue is not going to make it go away, but neither is worrying about it. What we can do is to check our knee-jerk reactions at the door, refuse to subscribe to the emotion du jour, elect the people to office who align with our values and have the power to do what they can politically and legislatively, and be the change that we wish to see in the world, to put it tritely. We can only control our own small circle of influence. For me, personally, that means limiting my exposure to the news, especially TV news; giving to organizations like Amnesty International and Doctors Without Borders; and refusing to be terrified by the terrorists.
Creating a culture that minimizes inequality, poverty, frustration and disenfranchisement will help, but eliminating all violent acts by people driven by ideology, mental illness, depravity, or rage against the machine is just not going to happen, unfortunately.
I don't mind losing a few freedoms to keep the majority of people safer.
Who was it who said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Who was it who said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
I'm sure the British would have gladly labeled the founding fathers as insurgents and terrorists.
limiting my exposure to the news
DH tends to have reactive opinions regarding media news stories. When we see these terrible news stories, I have to remind him and myself that at the same time that there are positive, wonderful things occurring everywhere. Hopefully, way more than we can comprehend. There is nothing I can personally do to stop terrorism other than to not give it my attention. Fear feeds itself. Men have always killed each other and probably always will. If I had to come up with one practical solution, it would be to let women run the world for a while but that ain't gonna happen unless we get our own planet.
IshbelRobertson
1-14-15, 12:59pm
Well..... They were :D
One man's terrorist is usually another man's freedom fighter.....
ETA My comment was in reply to Creaker's post.
I think the responses to your posts are kind of thin because the answers fall under the "things we can't control" category. Denying the issue is not going to make it go away, but neither is worrying about it. What we can do is to check our knee-jerk reactions at the door, refuse to subscribe to the emotion du jour, elect the people to office who align with our values and have the power to do what they can politically and legislatively, and be the change that we wish to see in the world, to put it tritely. We can only control our own small circle of influence. For me, personally, that means limiting my exposure to the news, especially TV news; giving to organizations like Amnesty International and Doctors Without Borders; and refusing to be terrified by the terrorists.
Creating a culture that minimizes inequality, poverty, frustration and disenfranchisement will help, but eliminating all violent acts by people driven by ideology, mental illness, depravity, or rage against the machine is just not going to happen, unfortunately.
I can't improve on this, it deserves being said again.
Increasingly militarized borders wouldn't have stopped Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, or Scott Roeder, among others. Terror is a weapon, not a nationality--just as xenophobia is a problem, not a solution. It only increases fear and isolation from "the other;" we need more familiarity, not less.
gimmethesimplelife
1-14-15, 1:16pm
DH tends to have reactive opinions regarding media news stories. When we see these terrible news stories, I have to remind him and myself that at the same time that there are positive, wonderful things occurring everywhere. Hopefully, way more than we can comprehend. There is nothing I can personally do to stop terrorism other than to not give it my attention. Fear feeds itself. Men have always killed each other and probably always will. If I had to come up with one practical solution, it would be to let women run the world for a while but that ain't gonna happen unless we get our own planet.I was talking to my Mom just the other day when I went over to Drano her sinks and I told her I remember when I was 13, waiting for her to come home from work. I would watch the news at 5:30 PM and I told her that the news today is much more negative, to which she agreed. I went home later and logged onto yahoo.com and there was a heartwarming story of a young black man who followed the abductors of a little Caucasian girl on his bike and somehow managed to scare them enough that they let the young girl go - the young man saw the abductors take the young girl out of her front yard. I was so touched by this story, especially with the race relations issues stirred up lately. There is good out there, and maybe media fasts are one way to see/sense/feel this. And I should be taking my own advice here as I get caught up in this cycle of negativity myself. Rob
Increasingly militarized borders wouldn't have stopped Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, or Scott Roeder, among others.
Of course not, border security can't prevent people already here from doing anything, but, what about those only just now preparing their itinerary?
....there was a heartwarming story of a young black man who followed the abductors of a little Caucasian girl on his bike and somehow managed to scare them enough that they let the young girl go - the young man saw the abductors take the young girl out of her front yard. I was so touched by this story, especially with the race relations issues stirred up lately.
You know what keeps race relations stirred up? I think it starts when people feel the need to notice race and get all warm and fuzzy not because some young man saved a little girl, but because a young black man saved a Caucasian girl. Wouldn't it be nice if we saw things through a content of character lens rather than the color of skin?
I know, wishful thinking, right?
Of course not, border security can't prevent people already here from doing anything, but, what about those only just now preparing their itinerary?
We have all kinds of tools in place already: no-fly lists, massive amounts of intel...If we don't ignore clear warnings like "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US," we should be OK. We've done pretty well the last fifteen years or so. I see no reason for panic--or even worry--on the part of the average American.
gimmethesimplelife
1-14-15, 2:01pm
You know what keeps race relations stirred up? I think it starts when people feel the need to notice race and get all warm and fuzzy not because some young man saved a little girl, but because a young black man saved a Caucasian girl. Wouldn't it be nice if we saw things through a content of character lens rather than the color of skin?
I know, wishful thinking, right?If this were a perfect world, I'd agree with you. And in theory I agree with you, too. In reality, I don't, however. The problem here that I see is that there is so much fear and distrust out there in general that issues become one-dimensional and when issues are seen through this filter, it's hard to not one-dimensionalize. I catch myself doing this and I try to be better than this - have you not read lately that I don't agree with cops being shot, for instance? Have you not read that although many of my neighbors are OK with this, I am not as we are talking of human life here? This represents not only decency on my part (especially coming from my background) but also a refusal to one-dimensionalize. And an attempt, however feeble to put myself in someone else's shoes.
But I'll say it again. In this current climate, it is hard, very hard, not to one-dimensionalize. Yourself and other posters here have referred to this in the past as being emotional - but to me, dealing with facts exclusively is also one-dimensionalizing, just in a different way. I'd wager it's just as hard for people who deal in facts only to not one-dimensionallize than it is for me not to put the emotional aspects of a given situation first. But if you will go back over my posts, I have made an attempt, agreeably somewhat feeble, not to one-dimensionalize. Rob
We have all kinds of tools in place already: no-fly lists, massive amounts of intel...If we don't ignore clear warnings like "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US," we should be OK.
I believe ISIS has warned that they will plant their flag on the White House lawn. Would an open border help thwart that, given that we have no-fly lists and intel?
If this were a perfect world, I'd agree with you. And in theory I agree with you, too. In reality, I don't, however. Would the world be a little more perfect if we all, each and every one of us, changed our perception of reality to adhere to the theory?
I believe ISIS has warned that they will plant their flag on the White House lawn. Would an open border help thwart that, given that we have no-fly lists and intel?
So we should base our national security on bravado? Where do we stop--walled cities with moats and gun turrets? (But we need to take a closer look at the secret service--they seem incredibly lax--they'd
probably offer Isis a tour... .)
So we should base our national security on bravado? It's only bravado until they accomplish their goal, and many would consider it to be one of those "clear warnings" you alluded to. Your example of "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US," was just a threat until he actually did it.
gimmethesimplelife
1-14-15, 3:41pm
Would the world be a little more perfect if we all, each and every one of us, changed our perception of reality to adhere to the theory?No, honestly, I don't think so. This has too many innuendos (sp?) of towing the party line to me. Like my mother once said to me, years ago - I would have been one of the Germans who fled Germany during World War 2 because they were not in agreement with what was going on - and there were some that fled. My point is - although it can be extremely frustrating at times, it's good that people have differing opinions on every subject under the sun. And some people are even capable of compromise - adjusting your perception of reality to adhere to any theory to me implies being unable to compromise. Rob
No, honestly, I don't think so. This has too many innuendos (sp?) of towing the party line to me. Like my mother once said to me, years ago - I would have been one of the Germans who fled Germany during World War 2 because they were not in agreement with what was going on - and there were some that fled. My point is - although it can be extremely frustrating at times, it's good that people have differing opinions on every subject under the sun. And some people are even capable of compromise - adjusting your perception of reality to adhere to any theory to me implies being unable to compromise. Rob
I was speaking of a specific thing, judging people by character rather than color. I think that got lost in the weeds. You said you agreed to the theory but not the reality. My point is you make your own reality, if you really believe in something, make it so.
It's only bravado until they accomplish their goal, and many would consider it to be one of those "clear warnings" you alluded to. Your example of "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US," was just a threat until he actually did it.
Point taken--but we're watching ISIS closely already.
Point taken--but we're watching ISIS closely already.
I expect we are - now. Maybe just the way the media presented it, but it was like they came out of left field. Not much was said about this group while they were just fighting Assad, they seemed to be just lumped in with all the other rebel groups our government was hoping would overthrow the Syrian government. It really wasn't until they invaded Iraq that we were presented a clearer picture.
Worse would be if our government had been watching them closely the whole time - and ignored their actions toward civilians because one of ISIS's goals had coincided with one of ours.
We ignore threats to foreign civilians all the time--Boko Haram is one example--unless our security or corporate money is at stake. Meddling in other nation's affairs (Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) contributed to our being a terrorist target to begin with.
I think lumping mass-shootings in the USA (of which we have ~20/year) into the same category as, say, flying airliners into skyscrapers or exterminating 1000 people in a village is perhaps an error in analysis, and unlikely to produce useful approaches to solutions.
The France incident with Charlie Hebdo was the comparison. A couple of well-armed men with a vendetta walk into the place and kill 12, then escape for a few days and take hostages and kill a couple more people. This does not sound too different from any of the following scenarios:
A well-armed man walks into an elementary school and kills >20 people, most of them 6 year olds. (Newtown)
A well-armed man enters a movie theater dressed as a character from the movie franchise, and kills or maims ~70 people. (Aurora)
A well-armed man with a vendetta that he hasn't gotten laid drives through a college town shooting a number of people. (Santa Barbara)
A well-armed man with a political vendetta drives to a grocery store parking lot on a weekend morning and shoots a sitting member of Congress, plus many others. (Tucson)
A well-armed man on a military base shoots a number of people. I think this variation has happened at least 2 or 3 times. (Ft Hood, TX; NY)
A well-armed man walks around his college campus and shoots a number of people. (VA Tech)
Two-well-armed boys walk through their high school, shooting a number of people. (Littleton)
This is why I said if something like the Hebdo thing happened in the US, we would call it...Tuesday.
We ignore threats to foreign civilians all the time--Boko Haram is one example--unless our security or corporate money is at stake. Meddling in other nation's affairs (Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) contributed to our being a terrorist target to begin with.
+1 Jane. You can't please all the people all the time, but the most obvious way to deal with terrorists would seem to be removing their motivation. If the actions of our government are not clearly in the best interest of all its citizens do we really have any business taking those actions? Our involvement in the countries that typically produce the most potential terrorists is dubious at best and the benefits to that vast majority of Americans is far from clear. We may not be able to eliminate the target on our back entirely, but I bet we could make it a whole lot smaller by simply getting our people out of a few, select countries.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.