View Full Version : Strange, talking about death.............
Last night DH and I were discussing which choice to make on one of his past-job retirement pay-outs. We were talking like "Okay.....if you live 10 more years", and "if I die before you do", and "what if we both die at the same time?" Anyhow........it was a bummer for both of us. I can't think about death too much.....it just overwhelms me. I know we all have to prepare (or not) for our eventual deaths, but it was just very unpleasant. I feel like at 65, we're now on the start of "walking the plank", and every year we get closer and closer to the edge.
Maybe this should be in the spirituality forum, but I didn't feel comfortable putting it there.
I suppose the silver lining of talking about it is that we (hopefully) are aware of how wonderful it is to be alive each day. We will make the financial choice and move on. (closer to the end of the plank....haha).
It was just a very strange thing to talk about.......to guess how much time we might have left. And I understand that nobody knows how much time they have left.......not a new-born, not a teenager, not an old person. But still, it's a bit uncomfortable and distressing.
I just needed to talk about it.
iris lilies
1-15-15, 10:58am
We have those conversations all the time. In fact we just had one a couple days ago about pension payout and it's like what you're talking about, the ten-year gamble.
I think I might not be depressed about it because I haven't internalized thoughts of my own death. And that's a good thing.
I do think that DH will live longer than I will. And that's okay.
lessisbest
1-15-15, 11:22am
We generally use the term, "it's all downhill from here".... when we have these conversations and have made many of these decisions already, including having our memorial marker already in place at the cemetery, and our funeral information in writing (don't want to end up in a Casey Kasem situation - children VS step-mother). The hard part is deciding exactly WHEN hubby should retire, or should he work part-time for awhile.... Next month he will have 40-years with the same company. The economy is still a point of contention, and my crystal ball is in the shop for repairs...
My parents, especially my mother, wouldn't address this topic at ALL, which left a lot of decisions to me because I was their caretaker and had DPA, and took care of their accounts for them. My mother literally dropped dead at the age of 73, but I already had prepaid funeral arrangements and their memorial marker and cemetery space taken care of well ahead of the need while they still had the finances to cover those "essentials".
I'm 65 and I was just diagnosed with ALS last month. My husband is 71 and not in great health. We always thought that he would die before me and made our plans accordingly. But as they say...and we found out...life is a crapshoot at best!
I am currently reading a new book called The Grace in Aging: Awaken as You Grow Older by Kathleen Dowling Singh and am finding it very helpful on that topic. With a Buddhist slant, she reminds us that all things are impermanent and the sooner we come to terms with that, the more freeing our later years will be.
rodeosweetheart
1-15-15, 11:53am
I know what you mean, Cathy. I keep bumping up against this when buying bonds and stocks--I am seeing things mature now that I bought 15 years ago, remember thinking at the time how long out it seemed, and now I am like, "Jeesh, I feel just the same way, and I thought by now I could relax and stop planning."
It's a bit of a relief though to thing a 30 year Treasury should last me just fine!
Gardenarian
1-15-15, 12:31pm
Having recently gone through the retirement process, I have been experiencing many of the same feelings. The phrase "after my death" crops up a lot. It's not something I like to dwell on.
I do the same thing, Gardenarian........I try not to dwell on it. I don't understand it.....but what else can we do? I try to be thankful every day that I have had the opportunity to just get older. Also, I don't want my remaining time to be spent worrying about not having it.....and actually making it less good than it can be. But sometimes, it's hard not too. I guess I worry more about my DH and kids suffering because I'm not here anymore. But.....it's part of life, right? I hope I haven't depressed anyone today! :) Let's tell some good jokes now. LOL!
My mom, 82 years old this year, keeps joking that, at her age, she no longer wants to buy green bananas and have to wait for them to ripen. :) There's nothing on the horizon that keeps her from buying green bananas for quite a while yet. But we all have our way of dealing with the demises of ourselves and our partners and peers.
DW and I, in our mid-50s, aren't even in full retirement mode, though the money talks certainly have included discussions of survivor benefits and wills. In the next few years, we're planning to move someplace where we don't need to navigate stairs or drive, if that's what it comes to. We both know what the other wants in the way of funeral services, burial, etc. I suppose that's valuable to know even if you're starting out as newlywed 20-somethings. It's just a little odd knowing we're closer to the end than the beginning. But (ironically) that's life....
goldensmom
1-15-15, 4:12pm
A friend once showed me a tape measure and said ‘this is the life expectancy of woman of our generation and this is how old you are’……think about it. Quite a visual. I think talking about death and the issues surrounding it, i.e. financial, arrangements, etc., is normal. I experienced the death of a sibling when I was 10, I know life can short or long so I learned at a young age that death is a normal part of life so I might as well not ignore it. I’ve read that illness and aging prepares us for death and I can see how that can be. The older I get, when I think of end of life things I‘m okay with it, in the meantime I just live every day, plan for tomorrow but know all things are temporary.
Some friends in FL called the other day, Bob always starts a call with "hello from God's waiting room!"
Tussiemussies
1-15-15, 6:23pm
I am in my mid fifties now and think about it quite a lot. I think out of fear for when it really happens. Although our plans are to live a good, long life....
Teacher Terry
1-15-15, 6:29pm
At age 60 I know what everyone means. We had some decision making when we choose our pension options. We know we want for end of life decisions but have not actually bought a cremation plot, etc. I had a weird thought this year when we each had to get a car-we don't drive a lot so thought I wonder if these will be our last cars. Although, my mom kept saying that & she died just short of 90. A good friend of mine is having a life/death struggle with cancer & my bf daughter died at 19 so life can be short.
ToomuchStuff
1-15-15, 6:53pm
I have been in a few of these conversations and too many times, the person is saying IF they die, instead of when. Facing mortality is a fact PERIOD. People do not feel wonderful about life each day, IMHO, proves that we don't comprehend that reality.
I grew up around the funeral business, dealt with a friend dying of Leukemia in elementary school, was told as a kid that certain parties could be danerous to me, and have lost people all along the way (both older and younger then myself). Had a former coworker die last year, that in one workdays time, he was rushed to the hospital and told he was going in for emergency surgery, with at best a 50/50 chance of living (rare operation that out of five that year, three died). Things change quick and not on "our timetable". (edit, he made it through the surgery, and lived around 2 years longer)
When you start getting bummed about it, look both backwards and forewards. I want you to remember relatives as far back as you knew (grandparents/great grandparents) and then think back if you could meet their priors. Then look forward and wonder about your grandkids, grandkids. Get some perspective on the passage of time WAY beyond our lifetimes and start to realize how small of a fear death really is, and the stuff that fear could keep us from imparting, that should be important.
Just my $.02
I'm 65 and I was just diagnosed with ALS last month. My husband is 71 and not in great health. We always thought that he would die before me and made our plans accordingly. But as they say...and we found out...life is a crapshoot at best!
Valley, I just wanted to acknowledge your post. It must have been tough to hear this diagnosis. Very true that we never know what life holds in store. All the best to you.
Yes Valley.........we're hoping the very best for you!
Tussiemussies
1-15-15, 9:16pm
Yes Valley, I saw what you wrote in you post. It must be a very trying time for you. I will send prayers....
Thank you very much...it is a very overwhelming time for me and my husband. My faith is strong, so I'm not afraid of death itself...but I am anxious about the process of dying from ALS. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers!
rodeosweetheart
1-16-15, 5:23am
Hi Valley, sending lots of healing thoughts your way, along with a book suggestion--this book is FABULOUS--I read it when I was recovering from lasting effects of a serious illness, and it was amazing what is contained there in--lots of different stories, and I found so much in there-
http://www.amazon.com/Remarkable-Recovery-Extraordinary-Healings-Getting-ebook/dp/B00JTHZX7U/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421399868&sr=1-1&keywords=remarkable+recovery&pebp=1421399869478&peasin=B00JTHZX7U
I sent my copy to my sister-in law who was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer. She is doing great 5 years later and she loved the book, too, so take a look at review and see what you think/
Anyway, please know I am thinking about you and I care!
It is difficult to face your own mortality. I'll be 68 in a couple of weeks and have three very good friends facing serious medical conditions. And, a group of us are planning our 50th high school reunion and are finding out how many of us have died. And, time is going by faster than ever.
Whenever I think of death, I think of birth. Poof we're here, poof we're gone. Pretty neat really!
DH gets completely freaked out about death. If I say something like, "I think when I'm 110 it will probably be time to pull the plug" he gets tense; "I don't think it's Ever time to pull the plug." This gets to be a bit of a drag, because we can never discuss the future in realistic terms. As far as I'm concerned, the secret to a good life is preparing ahead of time and then riding the roller coaster. I think ... if someone could promise me I'd live well to 100 and then have to step out, I might go for it.
I think much more along the lines of Pinkytoe, it's amazing I'm here. Actually, understanding the fact that I'm going to die makes it even better, even more wonderful.
And Rodeosweetheart, that's sort of amazing, yesterday, perhaps as you were writing those words, I was buying a 30 year bond, and thinking just that: within a decade or two, this isn't going to be a sensible choice. (I'm 52, but yes, I do expect to live to be 100. I won't be surprised if I don't last that long, but I won't be surprised if I do, either, lots of old folks in my personal history.)
catherine
1-16-15, 12:33pm
Whenever I think of death, I think of birth. Poof we're here, poof we're gone. Pretty neat really!
"From dust we came and to dust we shall return."
I love Ecclesiastes, that great existential book of the Bible!
When DH was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2010 with a possible 15% chance of surviving 5 years, all the discussions we had had before consolidating our assets, our funeral arrangements with family (meaning cremation and scatter ashes and nothing else) and hope that whoever survived would continue to find some happiness, it was not as hard for me to cope with his passing.
At age 70 years, I bought this little house that I told the builder was perfectly designed for my next 25 years - one floor, ease of movement, walkable neighbourhood etc, he had the audacity to suggest that it was not built for 80-90 year olds in mind. I proceeded to show him how it was, in very emphatic terms and he has become a supportive friend instead. Several friends have spoken to him about having similar homes made for them. I had warned him that there was an increasing demand for homes for people my age and older who did not want to live in a condo or apartment with other older adults but rather in a vibrant community with a mix of age groups, families and lots of activity.
I expect to be here for as long as I can be independent, hoping that I can go out feet-first but accept that I may move to an assisted living facility nearer either daughter and their family for support who have power of attorney, if needed They know all the details of my life and assets.
Having all these talks over the years and arrangements outlined is important for peace of mind. I am now going to live my life with gusto, volunteering, painting, gardening, traveling and enjoying my music and friends of all ages for the next 25 years if possible.
When I die, I hope that it is my choice and that I go as peacefully as my mother did.
For those who have struggled or discovering health issues that compromise their future, my wish is that you have all the support, love and peace as needed.
having similar homes made for them
Perhaps in another thread this could be discussed. Simple low maintenance houses...for any age really.
Teacher Terry
1-16-15, 3:45pm
I am really sorry about your recent diagnosis Valley. Take care:))
rosarugosa
1-16-15, 8:18pm
Valley: I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You are very much in my thoughts.
rosarugosa
1-16-15, 8:24pm
Razz: It sounds like you and your DH had a wonderful marriage, and you have such a great outlook on life. I always enjoy your posts.
ApatheticNoMore
1-16-15, 9:10pm
I don't think death makes life so cool. In fact it makes me wonder why I was ever created. For no reason at all no doubt. But still many are the periods in one's life, especially growing up, one resents one's parents for that one .... (in addition to whatever else one may resent them for).
It's awe inspiring when it's not terrifying, but mostly it's painful.
Valley, I too am sorry for your recent diagnosis. It can be counted on that life will always present challenges to all of us in one form or another.
Blackdog Lin
1-16-15, 10:07pm
I fear for pain in my passing, much more so than the passing itself. I don't think I would handle pain and/or being incapacitated very well.
The passing itself, well, I've always looked upon it as the last great adventure. The greatest adventure of all.
(however, as I am aging I am finding I don't want adventure nearly as much as I used to. A conundrum, eh?) :)
Thank you very much...it is a very overwhelming time for me and my husband. My faith is strong, so I'm not afraid of death itself...but I am anxious about the process of dying from ALS. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers!
Valley, I will be keeping you and your husband in my thoughts and daily prayers.
Valley.....come here any time for support! We're here for you!
Thanks everyone. We had stair lifts installed this week, and I got fitted for leg braces. It is making my ALS diagnosis all too real. My hands are becoming weaker and I'm saddened to think I might not be able to sew or do my beloved craft work in the not too distant future. I hope that I hit a plateau soon. I'm determined to make the very best of the time I have before I am closed into my body. I'm grateful that I have a strong faith, a wonderful famly, and good friends.
Valley, you are inspiring in your attitude and your faith.. like all the others here, I send you love and support.
rosarugosa
1-18-15, 3:56pm
Valley,
I recently became acquainted with a blog written by a woman with ALS. I find the writer to be witty, irreverent, eloquent, clever, brave, and brutally honest. She is also extremely debilitated at this point, which is heart-breaking and I do find the blog upsetting in that respect. I believe she is in her forties and has a young daughter. I vacillated about whether to share the link, but ultimately figured I would share it and you (and others) could decide whether to visit her site or not. I should note that ALS is not the blog's actual subject, but it is such a dominant factor in her life that there really is no avoiding it. It's a "style" blog. She lives in Paris and is very interested in fashion, decor, food, etc. She can also be profane at times (an issue for some, although not for me).
http://havesomedecorum.blogspot.com/p/about.html
rosarugosa, I'm glad you found a blog about a woman with ALS. When Valley posted her diagnosis a while back, I got to thinking about statistics of number of men vs women with ALS. I've known 4 men in recent years to have ALS....Valley is the first woman I've "known". I watched some of the Ed's Story videos when a fellow glass artist friend rec'd his diagnosis. Valley, I am keeping you in my prayers...I wish this wasn't such a difficult journey but I pray you have peace and joyful experiences in this journey.
Yossarian
1-19-15, 10:14am
Here's a good book on the topic written by one of our own SLN members. It's an easy read if not an easy topic.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TGLO0Q/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o00_?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Here's a good book on the topic written by one of our own SLN members. It's an easy read if not an easy topic.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TGLO0Q/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o00_?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I second the recommendation- really excellent book.
domestic goddess
1-19-15, 5:44pm
I think this is a topic that depends so much on your personal experiences. I've had quite a number of deaths in my family over the last 15 years. My father-in-law died in 2000, my dh in 2002, my father, two aunts, my mom in 2012, and my mother-in-law in 2013, one of my dh's aunts, and his uncle, and a number of my pediatric patients. At this point, I don't have any really negative feelings about death. When my work here is complete, I am ready to go. My dd won't discuss it, but she is only 34, so I can understand that. She used to get very upset when my mom would say things like "I'd buy a new car, but I'll probably die before I get my money's worth out of it." I understood that, but dd and my niece didn't. With all the recent deaths in our family, it has become something of an old friend. When my mom's estate is finally probated, I can finalize all the business and my dd won't have to do anything with that.
I took a how long will you live type quiz when I was in my teens and it said I would live to be 94. So I've always arranged my affairs with that in mind. I have my IRA withdrawals such that the money will last another 27 years. It's all a crap shoot but you have to have some kind of base.
A few years ago DH and I heard a friend describing her dying uncle say to her aunt, in fun, "I know the first thing you're going to do after I die is buy a new car!" Which is what she did--he'd kept her from doing it while he was alive. So DH and I sometimes joke, "If you die first, I'm going to ..." I think it's helped us with being freer to refer to the other aspects of dying.
In 2003 we too got a one-story house in walking distance of essential places--with old age in mind.
I took a how long will you live type quiz when I was in my teens and it said I would live to be 94. So I've always arranged my affairs with that in mind. I have my IRA withdrawals such that the money will last another 27 years. It's all a crap shoot but you have to have some kind of base. I've decided if I live to be over 105 and choose not to willingly hang up my hat, I can be someone else's problem. :~)
I'm 65 and I was just diagnosed with ALS last month. My husband is 71 and not in great health. We always thought that he would die before me and made our plans accordingly. But as they say...and we found out...life is a crapshoot at best!
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, Valley. Kind thoughts coming your way.
I think about this a lot, esp. since my mother died 5 years ago. I wish I knew WHEN our "expiration dates" were--it would make financial planning so much easier!
A friend at my church just passed away suddenly---he was very vigorous and seemed to be in excellent health. I think he might have been in his early 70's I just can't believe this happened. I was just talking to him about his plans for his next trip. Breaks my heart.
PS--Just wanted to add: please, please, please, everyone think about the fact that if you live into your late 70's, 80's, or beyond, you will not be able to keep driving. Move to a place that has a walkable neighborhood before you get too frail to organize a move. If you have adult children who don't drive, please please please get yourself into a home that has easy access to public transportation. Our beloved MIL is living on her own at age 97 in a community that has no public transportation, and no local cab company. She is partially blind. And we do not drive. It is a terrible situation.
sweetana3
1-28-15, 10:17pm
Rachel so true. We researched and found Mom a senior living community with bus service both by the community to local needs and a public bus at the entrance that would bring her downtown. She has yet to use that last option and I think I need to go with her and show her how it is used. Then when she gets downtown it would be 6 blocks we would have to drive rather than 1/2 hour to pick her up and another to take her home.
We are looking at various places and easy walking access to most of what we need is our most important criteria.
Rachel so true. We researched and found Mom a senior living community with bus service both by the community to local needs and a public bus at the entrance that would bring her downtown. She has yet to use that last option and I think I need to go with her and show her how it is used. Then when she gets downtown it would be 6 blocks we would have to drive rather than 1/2 hour to pick her up and another to take her home.
We are looking at various places and easy walking access to most of what we need is our most important criteria.
Great solution you found for your Mom, sweetana3. Great that she was willing to move there. We are looking for similar options and hoping we can get ours to consider a move. Step by step...
I believe that the most wonderful gift that you can give your children is not the money or assets but the peace of ind and knowledge that you have designed your end of life decisions so that they don't have to do anything to keep you comfortable, active and housed appropriately for your needs.
SteveinMN
1-30-15, 11:08am
Great solution you found for your Mom, sweetana3. Great that she was willing to move there. We are looking for similar options and hoping we can get ours to consider a move. Step by step...
It is a step-by-step process. I think it's easier in some instances than others. A friend of mine and his siblings recently moved his 93-year-old mom to the metro because she cannot drive anymore. It took a lot to move her away from the farm she and her husband lived on for decades. Then there's the denial ("Oh, that's for old people!"). And the fear of loss of independence (though IME this one pretty much takes care of itself as the older person becomes more and more isolated and dependent). Start early, start often.
I believe that the most wonderful gift that you can give your children is not the money or assets but the peace of ind and knowledge that you have designed your end of life decisions so that they don't have to do anything to keep you comfortable, active and housed appropriately for your needs.
Amen! I don't want the money and the stuff; I have enough. It would be enough for our moms to spend the money where they want to and to get the "stuff" to others who can use and/or appreciate it. DW and I have been working on our moms to get financial affairs at least known (if not in order) and to describe their final wishes (some people just don't like to talk about it). Preparing (you know it's coming; you just don't know when) is the best and final gift a parents can give their children.
rodeosweetheart
1-30-15, 11:23am
Then there's the denial ("Oh, that's for old people!").
Steve, I had to laugh at that one. My father, who has stage 4 cancer and is 87, said the other day, "If I die" and I had to NOT laugh. It's sweet and it's funny--and who knows, he might outlast me; he is tough as a boot.
My in-laws, both in their 80s and in poor health with chronic diseases, refuse to move from their little house that is woefully removed from any shopping areas. Father in law actualy gets on the interstate to get to the grocery and it scares us to death that he is going to hurt someone if not himself. The kids including dh refuse to talk about it but having been through this with my own parents, I know what will happen at some point. Great stress can be removed from everyone's life if old folks will just let go of the pride.
SteveinMN
1-30-15, 11:37am
Great stress can be removed from everyone's life if old folks will just let go of the pride.
I'll let you know how well I do with that when I get there! :)
iris lilies
1-30-15, 12:05pm
I can always see "downsizing" as a next stage. As you all know, I fantasize about tiny houses. I drool over small pre-war apartments with plaster crown molding and wood floors (and tiny kitchens and no storage!) Somehow, I have to have a plot of land to keep up, but it doesn't have to be my own yard, I know I would be happy in these small places.
I think I'll downsize just fine when the time comes. But in reality, DH will not.Since I'll likely be dead before him, it's not my problem.
Teacher Terry
1-30-15, 8:18pm
My Mom moved into an apartment right by a bus stop for when she could not drive. She died right before turning 90 & continued to drive because she was fine. I rode with her & she did not scare me. Of course the town only had 100,000/people so not tons of traffic like big towns. A friend of mine had an awesome Mom. She was 88 & dying from bone cancer but still doing everything by herself okay. The social worker says to her "You do realize you are dying don't you" -she says I am not dying today!
My father held onto his car far longer than he needed to. He was living in an assisted living facility and would have them drive him to his doc appointments, so he didn't need it even for that. And there was an Albertsons across the parking lot where he could get toiletries and such. So he owned a 13 year old car with just 20,000 miles on it. But he still felt the desire to keep the car "just in case I need to go somewhere". Thankfully he drove it so rarely that the battery was dead anytime he wanted to go anywhere, which meant he drove even less since finding someone to jumpstart it was a lot of effort. Finally last June, when he first went into the hospital for the last time, he decided to give it to me. He ended up never going home again, but at the time he gave it up I was so glad that we didn't have to have that conversation. So much dignity and independence gets lost once old age frailness sets in that it would've been awful having to tell him that he needed to give up yet another piece of his perceived independence.
Regarding people who don't seem to realize/accept that they are old, I find that totally charming. My aunt by marriage's mother was that way. She was almost 90 and would still go volunteer once a week to help do the women's hair in her small town's nursing home, saying "us young folks gotta go help take care of the old folks." Never mind that she was probably older than 2/3 of the women whose hair she was doing. What a great attitude to have.
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