View Full Version : Large, Fairly New Home To Be Razed....
In case anyone had not seen the news story, can someone post a link? Anyway, the former home of that notorious spree killer who shot up the schoolhouse in Conn. is going to be demolished. I'm not mentioning specific names, so that this topic won't invite too much outside controversy. But, I'll lead off by saying it is very wasteful, and a purely emotional decision. If every structure associated with tragedy were torn down--well, that would be a whole lot of buildings. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory located in a Building in NYC, for one. Read the history on THAT. But, it was rebuilt, and is still in use.
Two-for one-response:
Here's the one you are referring to:
http://www.people.com/article/newtown-votes-to-demolish-sandy-hook-killers-home
And here's an extra story about a woman who returned home to find her husband had bulldozed their house without even telling her, or even taking the stuff out:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/House-Demolish-Woodlawn-Middletown-James-Rhein-Police-Wife-Bulldozer-289199611.html
Referring to the first house, I don't see anything wrong with bulldozing that one. It must be a horrible reminder for the residents. Plus, who would buy it?? I wouldn't.
They plan on using it for open space. There's some disagreement in the town about that. Some would prefer to rebuild a new house and have a new family there.
Regarding the second link, all I have to say about that is, unbelievable….
Yes, it is terribly wasteful..........but I wouldn't feel comfortable living in it and probably lots of other people wouldn't either. So much evil.
Maybe they could have it exorcized and someone would buy it???
Well, when I think waste, I'm not thinking as much about this particular instance as I am considering the destruction a beautiful retreat house that's been on Staten Island for a hundred years and sat on property with very old growth which served as a habitat for all kinds of birds and other creatures. They've cut down all the trees, torn down the old brick and stone buildings and are replacing them with town homes. Then, in the middle of the demolition of the buildings, they learned that the engineers had lied about the asbestos so they had to stop--Not sure where that stand now, but it was a crying shame.
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141017/fort-wadsworth/mount-manresa-project-hit-with-second-stop-work-order
Miss Cellane
1-22-15, 7:12pm
For the house in Connecticut--why is making an emotional decision about tearing it down a bad idea? The parents, siblings and extended families of the victims of the shooting live in that town. They don't want to see the house. And don't forget that one of the victims died in that house.
Selling the house would be a long, drawn-out ordeal, I think. Few people would want to live there. The bank that currently owns the house would pretty much have to sell at a loss, and after carrying the house for who knows how long, until a buyer could be found.
Maybe the zoning could be changed to make the building into some sort of community center? But again, time and money would be needed to do that.
I read that everything was stripped from the house and destroyed, so that it would not become "collectible."
While I don't think houses should just be randomly torn down, in this specific instance, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. And if it brings the families of the victims a bit of closure, then it is a good idea.
What bugs me more is the lovely older, 1920s and 1930s houses in the greater Boston area that are being purchased and torn down, with huge, awkward McMansions put up in their place, as large as the building codes will allow, almost filling the house plot. Perfectly good houses torn down, because someone wants an even bigger house--and the houses that are being razed aren't small to begin with. All that good workmanship replaced by crappy, shoddy new builds that are thrown up in a hurry. That's a waste, to me.
huge, awkward McMansions
I live in a tear-down neighborhood and it is very sad to watch it happen before our eyes after living here for 15 years. The old residents die or move on and the developers swarm in, bulldoze and replace with butt ugly houses that don't fit.
I live in a tear-down neighborhood and it is very sad to watch it happen before our eyes after living here for 15 years. The old residents die or move on and the developers swarm in, bulldoze and replace with butt ugly houses that don't fit.
Yup, same thing happening in my area. It is sad.
Well, I did some research and found some other fine homes that were crime scenes, and the outcome. Okay--The home of the young man in Denver who planted a bomb on an airliner, killing his mother and 43 others, in 1955. He was executed just 14 months later. His modest(but new in 1955)residence, where he built the bomb, is still there in Denver & looks much like it did 58 years ago. So is the small drive-in restaurant building he owned; it is now a Mexican Place. The scene of the infamous Clutter Murders, described in the movie and the book; a large home, built in 1948, it is still there, occupied, and looks much like it did in 1959, when the murders happened. People magazine(back when it was a good read) did an article on the home in 1996. The home on Cielo Drive in suburban L.A. where Sharon Tate, et al were killed by the Manson Cult in 1969. It was a rental, but after the crime, the owner moved in and lived there for 20+ more years, and then rented it out again. That house was still there until 1994, when it was sold, and razed to build a more sumptuous mansion on the 3-acre lot. Last resident was NIN's Trent Reznor, who helped his buddy, shock-rocker Marilyn Manson, record his first album of "music"there, in 1993. Okay--the so-called "Amityville Horror" house on Ocean Drive, Amityville, Long Island, NY. Still there, 40 years after. It has been remodeled somewhat; they got rid of those weird wedge-shaped upstairs windows, and changed the address. It has drawn curiosity-seekers, over the years, since it is near a population center. The house where Andrea Yates systematically murdered her young children in Houston, Tx--still there. New owner occupies it, no problem. The "Heavens Gate Cult" mass suicide house in Rancho Santa Fe, Callyfornya. Well, this one sustained some nasty damage, after 39 people ingested poison, and their corpses weren't discovered for quite a few a days. So, it did need some, um, redecorating work when it went back on the market for 1 1/2 million. But, a neighbor bought it, and had the 9,000 s.f. home razed. Must be nice to have money to waste! Lessee, what else? Ok--the BTK killer. BTK's modest house in Wichita was auctioned off, but ended up in the hands of the local (city)government, who tore it down. There was supposed to be a practical concern-the lot was used for an access lane into a park that adjoined it. But, the other modest homes of his victims, where he committed his atrocities, are still standing and occupied. One was on the market and sold at auction several years ago. Due to the notoriety, it only brought 35k, saidto be about 10-15k under market for similar properties. Oh yes--the Lemp Mansion in St Louis. That place wasn't zackly a crime scene, but it had various members of the Lemp Family commit suicide there. It's haunted as hell, or so I hear. But, it's a fancy-schmancy restaurant now, I guess. Next time you are in San Lo, and feel hungry...there you are.There's more, but that's it for now. The real estate term for crime scene or violent death homes is a "Stigmatized property". A few states require disclosure, to prospective buyers. I think the concern is as much about highly-publicized crime scenes drawing annoying, curious tourists and even trespassers looking for souvenirs, even for years. A situation which might diminish a residents sense of privacy and security. So, typically they are priced lower, though not always. Some people might simply be uneasy about occupying a home where a terrible death(s) happened, others, not so much. The former Bentler home nearby little old Bonaparte, Iowa, is a large, newer country home where the son murdered his parents and sisters, in 2006. The place was sold to a new owner, who says he likes living there, in spite of its' tragic history. Well, hope that helps you some. I figure that that house in Newtowwn should be sold, quietly, to a new owner who can restore it, live there, and not be uncomfortable with it. The other people can try and reconcile the past, without resorting to superstitious acts, like destroying a good, useable large home. It is irrational behavior. It won't bring their kids back, it won't undo what happened, and certainly using the site for a memorial won't help them forget , either. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
rosarugosa
1-23-15, 5:48am
I agree with Packy on this one. When I saw the news, I thought what a terrible waste. It's irrational and superstitious. There's nothing evil about the house itself, and if priced correctly, someone would buy it and most likely make a much happier set of memories there.
That was interesting information on those other properties, especially the Cielo Drive property.
on a side note, Stephen King was in a horrible accident. He was walking and a drunk driver hit him and twisted his entire body into a pretzel. After it all Stephen King made sure he got the car from the accident and parked it where it would not be accessible on his property i believe (or destroyed it) so that it would not attract anyone to collect any parts of it. Figure this is the guy who wrote Christine after all! it is valid however to consider what people will do and how that affects others. My daughter works at the movie theater in Aurora, they screen new applicants to make sure no one is there for the creepy factor, but that seems to have passed some time ago. the media is very low key on the shooter here.
I agree with Packy, but when I brought this up to my SO last night it quickly became clear that SO agreed with tearing it down and didn't want to particularly hear a different viewpoint. Superstition is quite common in the US (when was the last time you took an elevator to the 13th floor?) so I suppose I'm not surprised.
Teacher Terry
1-23-15, 2:16pm
Too sad for the parents to see it everyday. I think they are doing the right thing.
it is valid however to consider what people will do and how that affects others. My daughter works at the movie theater in Aurora, they screen new applicants to make sure no one is there for the creepy factor, but that seems to have passed some time ago. the media is very low key on the shooter here. Was she employed there at the time of the shootings? Wow, that would be upsetting. I read, (and I should've included it, but my memory hazy on that one), that the theater was remodeled extensively before it was re-opened, but it is the very same building where the murders occurred.
Was she employed there at the time of the shootings? Wow, that would be upsetting. I read, (and I should've included it, but my memory hazy on that one), that the theater was remodeled extensively before it was re-opened, but it is the very same building where the murders occurred.
Yes she was, she had just returned to work after a leave for another rather traumatic event in life. She went back (and 100% of the staff did) to work after in the remodeled building. The main theatre has been changed and the whole place looks very different inside. It is very much a community place where we knew so many of the staff, the regular attenders, etc. , we all knew multiple people who were there. The funny thing to me is that the theatre also serves the Indian community with Bollywood movies, now you can order samosas in the stand with nachos and all.
ZG- Was she there inside the building during the shooting?
ZG- Was she there inside the building during the shooting?
Yes she was in the concession stand, 2 of my close friends had sons in the actual theatre and they also survived
Yes she was in the concession stand, 2 of my close friends had sons in the actual theatre and they also survived
I did not realize that. Sorry if you had posted this at the time and I didn't remember.
What a tragedy. I am glad they were not physically harmed.
I did not realize that. Sorry if you had posted this at the time and I didn't remember.
What a tragedy. I am glad they were not physically harmed.
thank you, it reminds me to not take a firm stance on what 'should' be done in many cases. i am even more firmly grounded in pacifism however my kids went more towards guns. there is not a right answer necessarily, and i even consider getting aggressive with my point of view to be at odds with my practice of pacifism. when i am faced with a very different point of view i get curious about why and where that comes from, and watch for my judgement. to respond to tragic events by creating even more painful polarization is something we can work on deeply,
so my response to this original topic is really about who got to have a say in the decision to raze the house, how was the decision made, what is the effect? the house being torn down is not nearly as interesting to me as how the community worked things out, healed or created more wounds, etc.
Too sad for the parents to see it everyday. I think they are doing the right thing.
I guess to me I wonder if it would be more traumatic seeing the house there, but with a new (hopefully happy) family reclaiming it back into normalcy, or the empty space where it used to be, day after day forever just a meaningless plot of land that forever reminds people that it "used to be the home of this awful person who did this awful thing"
I guess to me I wonder if it would be more traumatic seeing the house there, but with a new (hopefully happy) family reclaiming it back into normalcy, or the empty space where it used to be, day after day forever just a meaningless plot of land that forever reminds people that it "used to be the home of this awful person who did this awful thing"Zackly. I couldn't have said it better. Guess I should mention the World Trade Center Site. It was suggested that it remain vacant, as a memorial, like the former Murrah Building location in OKC., which looks like a faux Graveyard. But, Practical considerations prevailed over Mawkishness. Yet, I don't think either event will be forgotten, anytime soon.
Teacher Terry
1-24-15, 2:26pm
Zoegirl it would be interesting to see how they worked it out. HOpefully, the parents were in agreement with the decision because you certainly would not want to make things worse for them. So glad your daughter & the other people you knew survived. Regardless I am sure they all experience some PTSD from the situation.
In case anyone had not seen the news story, can someone post a link? Anyway, the former home of that notorious spree killer who shot up the schoolhouse in Conn. is going to be demolished. I'm not mentioning specific names, so that this topic won't invite too much outside controversy. But, I'll lead off by saying it is very wasteful, and a purely emotional decision. If every structure associated with tragedy were torn down--well, that would be a whole lot of buildings. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory located in a Building in NYC, for one. Read the history on THAT. But, it was rebuilt, and is still in use.
Hard to pretend "things like that don't happen here", when the house is just down the street.
Didn't they raze the school as well?
Yes, Creaker, the school was razed. I can kind of meet them halfway, on that one. I do see some rational justification for it. But, the house, no. For one, choosing to live in the home is one thing. But, occupying the school building(by pupils and staff) is more or less involuntary, and the facility may have needed upgrading, anyway. That said, Only one of the three grade school buildings I attended, and two of the 4 high schools I went to are still in use. Actually, one of the high school buildings was replaced, but was sold for use as a parochial school. The one I graduated from was ten years old, two stories, when it was in an earthquake, and sustained extensive damage. By the time I arrived there, it had been repaired, the second story removed, with a large ground-floor addition. It is still in use, nearly 1/2 a century later. There are public school buildings in this town that are 60-70-80-90-110 years old, still in great shape & well-maintained. But, on the affluent side of town, a mid-fifties grade school was deemed inadequate to meet the needs of THEIR kids, so another site was acquired, a nice, new, clean, new, safe, nice NEW school was built, and the old, inadequate, old, not-good-enough-for-OUR-kids, (old) building sold for $3 million to a real-estate flipper, and then razed, to make way for a nice, new Big Box Store. How do you like that?
Remember the murder of the Amish children in their school a few years back? The community razed it and built a new schoolhouse elsewhere.
When the infamous Our Lady of the Angels Catholic grammar school fire happened in Chicago in the late 50s, the school building wasn't repaired. It was torn down and a new school built. I remember reading in a book about the fire that the parish thought there would be too many painful memories for the children who had been through the fire, but would return to school there.
Miss Cellane
1-24-15, 10:36pm
I did a little more research and the bank that owned the house gave it to the town. The town voted on what to do with the house--the majority wanted it torn down. A few wanted a new family to move in. There seem to be a lot of gawkers driving by the house--that alone would make it a difficult building to have in your neighborhood.
I'm not saying that destroying the house was absolutely the best option here. But I don't live in the town and don't have to deal with the aftermath of the shooting. What my heart says is that if tearing down the house gives some of the survivors a bit more peace in their lives, it isn't a bad thing.
I have an alternative solution, since the high road to opposing stuff is to offer alternatives. What they could do is let an Amish group come in, disassemble the house(maybe in subsections), and then they could transport it to another location and reconstruct it, there. They probably would do it at little or no charge, especially if you provided them with transportation to move it. The Amish have been known to have deconstructed buildings here, so as to salvage the materials. That said, I don't know if it would be practical, in that case.
ToomuchStuff
1-26-15, 12:56am
One of our local serial killers (the one I dealt with as a kid), had his home bought, with all the possesions and destroyed by a wealthy person, so it didn't attract the "creeps" that collect that or someone make a shrine out of it. Emotional, yes, but remember this may help the community heal and it was their choice.
I don't really see the difference between that, or the people who collect Manson stuff, or how a friend of mine felt when he had several autographs he was going to frame together (Churchill, Truman, Roosevelt, Hitler) and decided to get rid of the Hitler.
If you don't like it, you should have bought it.
Well, many ancient cultures conducted sacrifices--animal, human, and Valuable objects; in the hopes of alleviating the human condition. Which is: We Think Too Much. We get to thinking we are Victims, and then build a nest of self-pity. Then, do superstitious(or neurotic) things in desperation. Those People in That Town may be affluent, but to me, they are no different than a primitive tribe having a Ritual Sacrifice, to appease the gods after an epidemic that has killed many people.
It demonstrates the limits of their collective intelligence, to me. All it is.
rosarugosa
1-26-15, 9:01pm
Well said, Packy.
The house of the BTK killer in Wichita KS was razed years ago. IIRC the city bought it to be razed and there were police guarding from people carrying off pieces as artifacts.
Sloeginfizz
4-7-15, 9:40pm
I agree with Packy, but when I brought this up to my SO last night it quickly became clear that SO agreed with tearing it down and didn't want to particularly hear a different viewpoint. Superstition is quite common in the US (when was the last time you took an elevator to the 13th floor?) so I suppose I'm not surprised.
just this morning. I work on the thirteenth floor of a building. Definitely an unfounded superstition not to have 13th floors. Nothing bad has ever happened there. Except, you know, having to go to work every day. ;)
Sloeginfizz
4-7-15, 9:54pm
I'm not sure you can compare a private home, like the one mentioned, with a public space like the World Trade center. It's nice to think that a family could move it, make new memories there and make people forget that it was the focal spot of some tragedy, but in practical terms, I think there will always be people who want to come visit and see. Maybe they're mourning, maybe they're just curious. And the attention can continue long after the tragedy. Lizzie Borden's house was made into a themed B and B. I can't imagine how disruptive it would be to the family who moves in. With a large public site, like the WTC, it's just that- public. It's not disruptive because people come and go all day long anyway.
on a side note, Stephen King was in a horrible accident. He was walking and a drunk driver hit him and twisted his entire body into a pretzel. After it all Stephen King made sure he got the car from the accident and parked it where it would not be accessible on his property i believe (or destroyed it) so that it would not attract anyone to collect any parts of it. Figure this is the guy who wrote Christine after all! it is valid however to consider what people will do and how that affects others. My daughter works at the movie theater in Aurora, they screen new applicants to make sure no one is there for the creepy factor, but that seems to have passed some time ago. the media is very low key on the shooter here.Yeah, not only did King buy and destroy his car, the guy who hit him died suddenly about a year later--he was in his early 40's. That's what happens when you mess with someone who has "supernatural" connections< Just kidding, okay? I happened to think about the 10-story building in Manhattan, NYC., that housed the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory on its' 3 upper floors. A fire broke out in 1911, and 146 garment workers perished--many jumped to the sidewalk below, and bodies were piled up. After the tragedy, the building was restored, and is now occupied by New York University, and is used to house research labs and offices. There's a plaque on the building, but life goes on, there. See? They don't need to tear down a building, just because.....
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