View Full Version : What the hell ...
I considered keeping this to myself, but it's making me absolutely crazy today. Maybe someone else will feel better when they read about my particular brand of family dysfunction. In any event, I'd welcome feedback. There's a whole lot of psycho back story going back to childhood here, but suffice to say while I don't have a great deal of contact with my parents, maybe once a month, I'm not estranged from them, we're not "in a fight" or anything like that, I consider myself "on top of" the relationship and they are really the only two blood relatives I have in this country.
So ...
My mother writes me email last night saying that she and my father finally used up the rest of the Amazon gift certificate I gave them to buy a new griddle, they ruined the old one so this is really helpful and they can finally have pancakes again, isn't this wonderful! She then goes on to mention in passing that my 90 year old father had a stroke (what killed my grandmother at about the same age) and was in the hospital for three days but he's home now and doing well, he should make a full recovery. Hope you are doing fine, love Mom.
?
!
Really? I expect the next one to read something like, "I won my mahjong tournament! Sorry you missed Dad’s funeral but it was just a small gathering."
My feelings are so all over the board. I'm trying to make this not all about me. Not succeeding. Worried about my Dad. Angry at my mom but worried about her too, this must be incredibly stressful and scary for her. Feeling rejected, isolated, cut off from anything real in this family (story of my life with them). Angry. Hurt. Frustrated. Guilty. Fed up. Trying to do what is right. Totally and completely not sure if what is right is about honoring my mother's perceived wish to exclude me, reinterpreting it as a wish to protect me, totally going over her head and for once connecting directly with my Dad as she stands there pushing me away ... just ... I ...
Wow..
I'm sorry but I laughed out loud at:
"I won my mahjong tournament! Sorry you missed Dad’s funeral but it was just a small gathering."
But regarding the bigger issue--not sure what context to put that in. I'm assuming your mother is also quite on in years?
Trying to put myself in a similar situation.. well, I have a story from the opposite POV in which I felt just like you.
I get a call from DS29 (at the time), around 4pm one day. He says, "Did you hear from [DD] or [DS34]?" I said I hadn't, and then he started crying. As it turns out, the previous evening he was at someone's backyard party, and he had to go to the bathroom. He went to a door that he thought led into the house. It opened in, to the basement. So as you would do if you were opening a door that opens in, he leaned in, and stepped and fell down a flight of stairs to the basement. He had a gash on his head and a broken shoulder. He was in the hospital all night with tests for concussions, etc.
I could not believe my two other children did not call and tell me IMMEDIATELY. Every night I make sure my cell phone is fully charged by my bed in case they need to reach me. I had a very frank discussion telling them I do not need to be protected, I need to be informed. We are a very close family, and this kind of blew me away.
So I think your general observation that your mother didn't want to "bother" you with something as little as a stroke (??) is probably correct, although a little misguided. Could you speak her about it and just find out what she was thinking? And then tell her that the next time your dad has anything that's any more significant than a teeth cleaning, you want to know. Then that takes her off the hook, "Oh, should I call kib? I don't want to upset her." etc…
Sorry Kib! Has your mother always had her head in the sand? I ask that because my mother did, and she would do things like that. She came to visit me in college once (not far from home) and nonchalantly said while we were out eating lunch.........Aunt Kitty awhile back and we went to her funeral." Huh????? Sometimes I think some women are just out-to-lunch when it comes to thinking things through.
Maybe she thought you weren't very close to him? You made the comment that maybe she didn't want to upset the kids. Did she always do that? I have a SIL who is doing that with her grown children about her DH/their father, who has been struggling with cancer for years, but she doesn't share most of the info with them because she doesn't want to "upset them." That really ticks me off. I think it's an excuse for something else. (not sure what, but to me, it IS an excuse).
Can you come out and say to your mom "Mom......when someone in our family becomes ill or dies, would you PLEASE let me know when it happens........not a couple weeks later.......but right after it happens?!!?"
Maybe I'm thinking too much about my own mother........but there are some people out there who just don't think right about these things.
KIB - are there perhaps cognitive issues involved? I have several elderly relatives who exhibit what from what my end looks like inability to prioritize actions or communications, but what is from their end simple scatter-brained behavior.
"I'll call bae to tell him about The Important Thing."
Call
"Oh hello, did you see the weather we're having today. Yada yada yada... OK, well, bye bye - oh, wait, I forgot to tell you - the house is on fire! Talk to you later!"
"..."
I did try to ask, and got what I consider to be the usual sort of non-answer I don't know what to do with. "The hospital is an hour away, I've been very busy, if it was really important of course I would have called." Really? Past experience says otherwise. And I'm sure she has been busy, busy and stressed out and frightened and even though she's been complaining about this man for 54 years, terrified of losing him. But for me it doesn't address the underlying thing ... which might be a matter of self importance or narcissism on my part ... the underlying thing being that telling the relevant people, the other people who have relationships with this person and with you, is part of what being connected in family means. I keep having to re-examine that basic life connection and question its very existence, and I can't seem to get beyond that.
ApatheticNoMore
2-9-15, 2:01pm
Some people are that way about the prospect of death of loved ones (or close enough to death, I do realize he's not dead yet), they try to put on a cheery face, think they should be cheery that way. And then it's really not about you but their way of coping. You should talk to your dad at least on the phone, and maybe go out there (you know you want to - I bet - know you have the compulsion - dad might be dying etc. - of course he might as well completely recover, that's certainly possible - it's just 90 years old with a stroke is all. My dad didn't quite make it to 90 :( ).
My mom seems to have a good capacity for denial as well. She needs it. Oh trust me she needs it, it keeps her able to take the punches of life and be the mostly content and lovable person she is. If she was not like that she'd be more prone to the melancholy I can be at times, she'd have to be.
Yea it does make me feel better about my family. And I'd been depressed about them this weekend, I feel like I'll need to bail them out financially because of their stupid, but at the same time I don't really have the financial capacity to do that (I'm honestly not that high earning etc.). But yea it does make me put their crazy in perspective, it could be worse.
Kib, once we got a very upset call from my MIL. She was upset that no one had sent flowers while she was in the hospital having surgery for breast cancer. Ummm.....she hadn't bothered to tell any of us that she was going into the hospital for surgery or that she had cancer.
the underlying thing being that telling the relevant people, the other people who have relationships with this person and with you, is part of what being connected in family means. I keep having to re-examine that basic life connection and question its very existence, and I can't seem to get beyond that.
That seems like a reasonable expectation, but I don't think you're alone in this type of experience, and I don't think it necessarily signals a lack of love or caring. Seems hard to believe. I think bae could be right--that's why I asked about your mother's age. And I can also testify that coming from a dysfunctional family, going through life as if you live in a silo is not unusual. I adore my brothers, but the way we connect is very detached, unfortunately. When my mother died, my brother wanted to let my other brother know in an email. I had to say, "No, I think this is the type of thing you use a telephone for." My SIL can't get over it, and she can't understand how we relate--and we're not mad, and we're not even neutral. We love each other.
So try not to take it personally. There could be a lot of reasons that she didn't tell you which have nothing to do with her love for you.
Bae, I think that's a possibility, or at least a contributing factor. She seems like the one who's more active, but she's also the one who makes things ridiculously complicated and makes me feel out of control - keeping me away from any sort of action and then blaming me when things go wrong because I didn't do anything. This has always been annoying but as I question her judgment more and more, it is becoming worrisome as well.
Your post hit home as about an hour ago, I texted dd to let her know that her dad was seeing a cardiologist today and that there might be repercussions given his recent symptoms. I thought long and hard about not notifying her but honestly, I may need her moral support if the outcome is not positive. I think there is probably a bit of martyr syndrome in some females (especially older ones) about not wanting to upset people. My in-laws do the same thing but in their case, it is because they spend so much time at the hospital that we have all become used to it.
My immediate family, meaning parents and siblings, have this tendency to be secretive and insular and won't even share with wider family, whom they consider as the "outside the family", things that are going on. It makes me nuts and even I find myself on that fringe at times, because it's a cultlike family dynamic that I escaped years ago so I am not on the A list as far as sharing information.
Last week I learned that my mother, after being in and out of the hospital for the last month, has probable cancer that has spread and there's a strong likelihood that she will not live very long. I didn't know for five days and after my dad and siblings had a committee meeting to tell me. The same thing occurred (without me included) to tell her own siblings, my aunt and uncle who are baffled that over the damn secrecy. I have a close relationship to same aunt and uncle and it's hard to communicate being under the "family gag order".
ETA: so I get this "what the hell?" feeling
domestic goddess
2-9-15, 3:26pm
Oh, my. I was laughing at the same point as Catherine, although a little sheepishly. I tend to minimize things, too; it is a family trait, I think. My parents have always done that, too. During my father's last hospitalization, I spoke to one or the other of them daily, or more often, and they wouldn't commit to saying that I should come down. Finally, my brother called me and said I should come down, as things weren't going well. I packed a bag and left immediately. Halfway down there, I got a call from my brother, telling me that my dad had died. Later, I found out that my dad's potassium had been high all day, and they couldn't get it down. Like I said, we tend to be minimizers. When I was in the hospital with very high blood pressure, I didn't let my mom know; she just would have worried and there wouldn't have been anything she could have done about it. But I wasn't near death then, though you might have thought I was by the way the staff acted. My dd knew and I asked her not to share that bit of info unless I asked her to, and she respected that. It, frankly, would have been more exhausting to deal with the rest of the family; since I am a nurse, they count on me to provide information. Except for my dsil; he thinks I am trying to kill their children-lol!
domestic goddess, your story reminded me of this old joke:
http://youtu.be/OITxxsk1E7k
My mom doesn't disclose things like she should either---she "doesn't want to worry us." sigh......
Even with diddly stuff, like my brother was appointed a position at his job because his boss was fired. I asked my mom (who "talks" to him often) if he wants to keep it permanently, and she said she didn't know... she was "afraid to ask."
What??? Why? She makes me nuts. It's like she's afraid of us, or doesn't want any level of emotional upset.
I think what makes me so especially nutty is that, seriously and without exaggeration, there are three of us. Three. Her, Him, Me. My mother has family overseas she has very intermittent contact with. My Dad literally has two people in his life that qualify as friends and family. Her and Me. And it's not like we're competing for the same position, she's his wife, I'm his daughter - and his only remaining blood. And I'm not on the A list?? It's hard not to feel unjustly rejected and punished and even hated, perhaps judged by some insane standard I could never uphold.
Dad is extremely hard of hearing and it's difficult to talk with him on the phone. And now he apparently can't type either. I shouted an apology for not sending a card or calling him in the hospital, he said "WHAT DID SHE SAY?" and handed the phone to Mom, she said 'what?' I repeated myself, she said, sotto voce, "sigh ... that's ok." Aaargh!
ETA: for those of you who laughed, don't worry. Although I'm actually not kidding, she's "forgotten" the deaths of relatives before and then gotten angry with me for getting upset that they died, because it happened in the past. Having a screw loose apparently runs in the family. I'd like to understand this, but I guess in the end I gotta laugh, and sometimes I do. And thanks, Catherine, that made me chuckle. Dad, get down from there!
... and she said she didn't know... she was "afraid to ask."
What??? Why? She makes me nuts. It's like she's afraid of us, or doesn't want any level of emotional upset. Yes! that's exactly how I feel sometimes, like any level of honest discourse is some horrible torture that should be avoided at all costs in favor of remaining completely devoid of specific content, that I'm insensitive and stupid for even wanting to bring up anything real. You have no idea how in depth we get about the weather!
Just curious, - to everyone - do you exchange "I love you's" with all of your family? I tried out "I love you" on my Mom at Christmas, and the response was this begrudged, "SIIIIGH ... I love you too". Like I was fishing for some compliment I had no right to ask for. Seriously, I ... if I've fallen out of grace I have no idea why, (see above), and it's just making me nuts. Can't know, and can't ask.
Gardenarian
2-9-15, 3:48pm
I can see a few kind of scenarios where this could happen.
After reading what Float On wrote, I wondered, did your mom think that there was some other way you would find out about your dad? Siblings? Many people don't like to make an announcement about their troubles; they tell one other person and assume that person will spread the word. I got virtually all of the news about my parents' health problems second- or third-hand.
And I guess that is another issue; your mom might see this as her problem, not yours, or even your dad's.
I think there is also a factor of simply not knowing how/when to break the news. Maybe what happened with your dad started out as something small, and there was never a point where your mom felt like "I'd better let Kib know." When things are snowballing, it's hard to have any perspective.
It's also difficult dealing with hospitals and very draining; she may have felt that having to go through the whole story with you (and possibly have you visit, and give your input, etc.) would just be too much.
The way she told your sure was strange, though I can imagine my mom doing exactly the same thing.
Oh Catherine--I immediately thought of that old joke, too. I guess wanting to "let people down easy" is pretty universal.
Your post hit home as about an hour ago, I texted dd to let her know that her dad was seeing a cardiologist today and that there might be repercussions given his recent symptoms. I thought long and hard about not notifying her but honestly, I may need her moral support if the outcome is not positive. I think there is probably a bit of martyr syndrome in some females (especially older ones) about not wanting to upset people. My in-laws do the same thing but in their case, it is because they spend so much time at the hospital that we have all become used to it.This is really interesting to me because while you don't sound like my mom at all, you are coming from the opposite perspective, that of the parent. Why is it that you hesitated so much, if you don't mind saying?
I can see a few kind of scenarios where this could happen.
After reading what Float On wrote, I wondered, did your mom think that there was some other way you would find out about your dad? Siblings? Many people don't like to make an announcement about their troubles; they tell one other person and assume that person will spread the word. I got virtually all of the news about my parents' health problems second- or third-hand.
And I guess that is another issue; your mom might see this as her problem, not yours, or even your dad's.
I think there is also a factor of simply not knowing how/when to break the news. Maybe what happened with your dad started out as something small, and there was never a point where your mom felt like "I'd better let Kib know." When things are snowballing, it's hard to have any perspective.
It's also difficult dealing with hospitals and very draining; she may have felt that having to go through the whole story with you (and possibly have you visit, and give your input, etc.) would just be too much.
The way she told your sure was strange, though I can imagine my mom doing exactly the same thing. Nope, there is literally no one else. I've actually considered if there is a way to get info - say, from a director of the retirement community they live in - without going through her. The weird thing is ... my Dad's 90. *I* have come to terms with his death, although I sure will miss him and still, you know, hope he lives forever. What I haven't 'come to terms with' after 50 years is being cut off from communicating my feelings and love for him from my own heart in my own way.
Why is it that you hesitated so much
I am averse to drama of any kind so didn't want to raise alarm until I knew more.
I am averse to drama of any kind so didn't want to raise alarm until I knew more. How sane and reasonable. :) I would like to think that this is the case with my mom, and I suppose to some extent it is, but it seems to go deeper. Still, that's a helpful perspective for keeping this off being all about me. Thanks.
I was in an emergency room for 8 hours with my husband last week. After ruling out pulmonary embolus and heart problems (both scary) it was diagnosed pneumonia (less scary but still ...)
I kept in contact with our 3 adult kids by text every hour with updates. I told the one who lives close by not to come.
Why?
I'm a nurse. I know how the system works. Lots of delays, false rule out diagnoses, waiting around. And I was also sick with bronchitis at the time and frankly didn't have the energy to deal with any extra people around.
I'm wondering now how it was viewed through my kids' eyes.
I can't say, Tammy, but I think you did a reasonable and respectful thing - let them know in real time what was happening in at least some detail, and then took care of your business and let them make up their own minds. I do understand what you're saying about more complexity of added people just being too much to handle. I'm just kind of fed up with this age old treatment that assumes I'm incapable of managing myself properly or making an intelligent decision. It's infuriating, I've been independently managing myself and keeping my personal life and drama out of the family mix since I was about 12, way too early to have that put on me but I was tired of the blame and resentment that came with being honest about my life and feelings, I've painted a nice picture and been oh so compliant about not being "difficult" and yet I'm still treated like someone else's burdensome responsibility. I get it, this isn't about me, it couldn't actually be about me, but it still bothers me. Obviously. :|(
iris lilies
2-9-15, 6:36pm
I'm curious to know what involvement your parents had in your wedding/marriage ceremony. Were they present? Did they care to be present?
Also, what would happen if you told your mother straightforwardly "I want to be informed the minute dad has a health issue that puts him in an ambulance or a hospital." What do you suppose she would say? More muttering?
But really, I worry about you in this environment when and if your father passes on and you have to, in some form, care for your mother's business. This strange communication, the lack of it, won't serve you well in that situation.
kib,
have you read Roz Chast's book "Can't we Talk about Something More Pleasant?" it's her memoir of dealing with her very elderly parents who also had some of these same communication eccentricities, to say the least. It's a combination of her drawings (she's a cartoonist for the New Yorker so they're in that style) and family history and photos and actual conversations. Sad and funny and everything in between.
I don't have any words to add except reading that book might help you feel like you're not the only one. And I'll echo what others here have said: if this is life-long behavior it's not likely to change now.
Kib.......has it always been like this with your parents, even in your younger years?
Sometimes we just keep demanding/hoping/praying/wishing that they will finally understand that their behavior is hurting us.........but they might never have that awareness. Or it might not even be what they care about. That was the situation in my family.
Adult children keep hoping and feeling responsible and guilty and thinking it CAN be different.............but sometimes it can't. Sometimes it really surprises me how many chances adult children give their parents.....to be better parents. We keep hoping and hoping.
If your parents have always sort of been like this, then I think you have to come to terms inside yourself and maybe grieve that it was never what you hoped it could be.
But if this is very recent, then you might try to find some acceptance....that it's their brains that are aging.
I think it's a good idea that you mentioned that maybe someone else could tell you if there's a health problem with your dad or your mom.
Cathy's very wise. Some things can't be changed, so had better be accepted with grace. I had a fairly awkward relationship with both parents. At the end of her life, my mother asked "Why didn't we get along?" The truth was we were very different from each other, and not very interested in understanding the differences. But we maintained a connection, nonetheless. I think that's all that's expected of you.
I'm curious to know what involvement your parents had in your wedding/marriage ceremony. Were they present? Did they care to be present?
Also, what would happen if you told your mother straightforwardly "I want to be informed the minute dad has a health issue that puts him in an ambulance or a hospital." What do you suppose she would say? More muttering?
But really, I worry about you in this environment when and if your father passes on and you have to, in some form, care for your mother's business. This strange communication, the lack of it, won't serve you well in that situation. Yeahhhh, don't I know it. And yes, more muttering, blustering, detached and peculiar, defensive excuses. Nothing is her fault, everything is mine, and doing something real, in real time, might upset that applecart.
I eloped with Adam, but I let them know we were going to do this beforehand, it wasn't about them. At the time they seemed perfectly fine with it, sent their blessings and a gift and attended a reception later in the year, but of course I've been getting public jabs and digs about it ever since - "the rotten kids" (who were almost old enough to be grandparents when they got married) are brought up whenever a public humiliation is needed.
Thank you, Jane, for saying that it's reasonable to set limits on how scratchy a hair shirt I need to wear. I'm not sure that's what's "expected", but it's nice to hear that what is expected and what is reasonable are not necessarily the same thing.
Thanks, in fact, to everyone who shared and listened. I feel more or less normal again.
And Lainey, yes, I have that book and loved it for exactly that reason. Knowing that other adult people have less than close parental relationships that hurt, and maybe even still struggle over them, is reassuring.
ETA: And that is most likely the biggest issue for me. I think I'm over it, I think I've learned and grown, I hear other people's stories and feel relief and gratitude, and then here I am, feeling like my five year old self old not allowed for days on end to socialize with anyone who might give me unequivocal love, because I was Bad. Does this s**t never end?
Just wondering if maybe your mom has some mental health issues. Knowing that wouldn't necessarily make things easier but would maybe help you understand her more. She sounds a lot like my MIL. ((Hugs))
iris lilies
2-9-15, 11:36pm
I grew up as an only child (my brother was born when I was 9) and as much I liked being an only child, as an adult I am grateful that he is in the world. And I truly support parents who have only 1 child! But I gotta say, my brother was most useful in the care and feeding of our parents. And for commiserating about the actions of the parents. If one's sibling relationship is good the burden can be shared. Or even cousins, I have cousins now going through parent care time and it helps them a little that my brother and I have been through it.
I agree with Iris Lilies about sharing our feelings with someone. It's important to have some sort of validation for our perceptions of what's going on. My brother has been in denial of how our parents treated us his whole life and I could never talk to him about things. In fact, he would get angry at me if I would bring anything up. It IS very important to have someone to share these things with and have memories of funky behavior with. Otherwise.......you're sort of at the mercy of how the "perpetrators" have perceived things. A little validation (and commiseration) about our situations goes a long way!
That's not to say that we can't trust our own perceptions of how things were/are.........but it feels really good to hear the same thing from someone else.
It's always been amazing to me that even as grownups, our buttons are pushed just as if we were still children. It's a difficult situation Kib. I'm pulling for you to find some peace in this.
Thank you, Cathy. I totally agree with you and IL, while sibling relationships are a mixed bag, ideally they can definitely provide that grounding validation - or expand on a perception. "Mom was so mean to me" ... "yeah, but she had a brain tumor you didn't know about." I grew up rather isolated and my parents didn't have many friends or any relatives around, I really can't think of a living soul who could shed more light on their past (or present) behavior, and they refuse to look at it. So it's basically me and my memories, which is a rather shaky reality. ... I guess the good news is, since there's no guardian of the truth or differing perspective here, I can view my past in any way I want ... I just have to come up with an interpretation that gives me more peace.
DD1 informed me that she was discussing just this with coworkers - about parents contacting kids when health issues arise for the parents. The coworkers felt as some of you have expressed while she felt that as long as there are two cognitively aware adults who can look out for and advocate for the other parent, the need for contact was not as acute.
I told them when their dad had serious issues and quietly kept them updated. He would have preferred keeping the health issues under wraps because that was what he grew up with.
You simply lived your life, expected to get sick at some point and then to die. What was the need for all this info? It was a very matter of fact approach. If the older adult had said something like this, the children would have denied them the validity of their point of view. Younger people expect, by contrast, that some intervention is needed, the more dramatic the better, will change the end result and often find that the ordeal is not worth the effort. Society has been brainwashed into believing that more healthcare will prolong abundant health but more often, prolongs misery because we no longer accept that not everyone wants to last longer. The parents have had a good life and are ready to move on when the time comes.
However, she asked me now that I was on my own to please let both DD's know whenever i have any health issues since I am on my own. I agreed. Why can't people simply discuss talk things out?
Yes, Razz. I think my frustration comes from that fact that while I agree with everything you said about "younger people" - or in my lexicon, what "Society" has come to expect and push - that's not my view or my way. I don't have an agenda for what my parents should do, medically speaking, I understand that they're going to die, and I have no wish to complicate the choices they will make with "demands" of my own about their lives.
I feel like I've been like that about every decision they've ever made. They've never considered my opinion to be valid input, and I long ago stopped trying to have a say in our family's decisions. If they don't know this about me by now ... well that's really disturbing. Seems like they find it too offensive that I might have a personality of my own to ever get to wondering what that personality might be, the only parts they ever notice are the traits that aren't what they want. Ok, too complicated and messy there, sorry.
I just want to know what's going on with the people I consider my core - no matter how much psychological goop I have about them.
I still remember the message I got from my mother that my brother was just getting out of the hospital after a severe beating. "BEATING" WTH?
But this is the typical message I get from anyone in my family. Sometimes laughter is all we can do.
catherine, big hugs, it is good to see these things and for moments we can get this clarity that is not always kind to us. it is a very important part of empathy within our families, and then is best followed up with some serious self compassion. (different than self esteem or self praise, and i feel self compassion is the best way to take the lesson of your realization, be kind to yourself and move forward with your brother).
no real advice, just encouragement that you are sitting with this, it has taken me decades of meditation practice to sit with things like this.
catherine
2-14-15, 11:06am
no real advice, just encouragement that you are sitting with this, it has taken me decades of meditation practice to sit with things like this.
Thanks, ZG. Yeah, I've just started meditating more rigorously, so for me, meditation isn't about dealing with feelings because I'm a big-time stuffer, it's about feeling the feelings, so I think it's a good thing that this stuff is coming up.
Yes! that's exactly how I feel sometimes, like any level of honest discourse is some horrible torture that should be avoided at all costs in favor of remaining completely devoid of specific content, that I'm insensitive and stupid for even wanting to bring up anything real. You have no idea how in depth we get about the weather!
Just curious, - to everyone - do you exchange "I love you's" with all of your family? I tried out "I love you" on my Mom at Christmas, and the response was this begrudged, "SIIIIGH ... I love you too". Like I was fishing for some compliment I had no right to ask for. Seriously, I ... if I've fallen out of grace I have no idea why, (see above), and it's just making me nuts. Can't know, and can't ask.
Although I know my mother loved me, exchanging verbal I love yous was not something she did. Happened one time at my instigation, and no more after that. Might be generational, or family style, but not necessarily a reflection of not feeling love.
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