View Full Version : Here's something positive after all that drama in Missouri.....
gimmethesimplelife
3-5-15, 3:39am
Today I read that the Federal investigation in Ferguson revealed that the police department there way overstepped their authority by menacing African American citizens for revenue - something I suspected all along to be quite honest. I have to say I am impressed that the government is releasing findings of this nature, I had my doubts that the government would do this. Now the question is - will anything change, and if so what? And in other cities and towns where this happens, will change take place or the same status quo? I see some hope here, I really do. I'm of the opinion that more people harassed by the police will be willing to step forward and try to effect change. What that looks like, I don't know. Perhaps large settlements, perhaps making police departments more reflective racially of the areas they serve, perhaps more citizen rights against the police, with a streamlined process to report and determine violations of rights in their part. Hopefully more body and dash cameras on police/police vehicles with severe and immediate consequences for turning them off. We'll see what happens yet.
I do have some hope for this situation now, though. Rob
I was impressed too. I thought it might gloss over the realities.
Heard on NPR today the story of one woman in Ferguson who got 2 parking tickets for $150 total. She was poor but paid something on them but did not pay them off totally. Then the fines and penalties multiply. She also gets arrested and spends time in jail for unpaid parking tickets. She eventually pays over $500 but today still owes another $500. The local public defender said their clients have been telling them these same types of stories for years. No wonder they're fed up.
Today I read that the Federal investigation in Ferguson revealed that the police department there way overstepped their authority by menacing African American citizens for revenue - something I suspected all along to be quite honest.
Rob. I hope this doesn't upset you. But I agree with you 100% here.
iris lilies
3-6-15, 12:16pm
North county is full of this kind of thing, small municipalities squeezing the citizenry for traffic violations. It's how they get their revenue to pay themselves unnecessary salaries. St. Louis county is a model of silly-small villages, each with its Big Fish in a little pond. Not that it matters, but most of them are run by African American mayors and aldermanic boards. The clear answer is and has always been to consolidate these small towns and villages into the county government, but when presented with these options it's always voted down.
Ferguson, however, is a legitimately largish place that was once its own viable town, then later it became a bedroom community, and now it is a decaying suburb.
How does one sift through this stuff? When you have high unemployment, high crime, etc., etc., and blacks are the majority of the population there....doesn't it makes sense that they would get confronted by the police most often?
And how does law enforcement deal with people who get speeding tickets, etc., but then don't pay them? Are you just suppose to drop it? Just wondering....
No way would I ever want to be in law enforcement in a place like that. Even if you're constantly being fair/ethical/etc., it must be exceedingly frustrating.
How does one sift through this stuff? When you have high unemployment, high crime, etc., etc., and blacks are the majority of the population there....doesn't it makes sense that they would get confronted by the police most often?
And how does law enforcement deal with people who get speeding tickets, etc., but then don't pay them? Are you just suppose to drop it? Just wondering....
No way would I ever want to be in law enforcement in a place like that. Even if you're constantly being fair/ethical/etc., it must be exceedingly frustrating.
The NY times article on this pointed out a couple of key issues. First, the focus of the fines was revenue generation, not trying to get people to do the right thing. Ferguson apparently has the highest parking ticket rate in the St Louis area at over $100. Compare that to the one speeding ticket I ever got, back in the mid 80's, $32 for 14 mph over the limit. Even adjusted for inflation my ticket, for a much more serious offense, was less than a parking ticket would be in ferguson. Second, people (mostly white) who have friends in the ferguson government (again, mostly white) routinely get their tickets "taken care of" by those friends.
ApatheticNoMore
3-6-15, 4:35pm
The NY times article on this pointed out a couple of key issues. First, the focus of the fines was revenue generation, not trying to get people to do the right thing. Ferguson apparently has the highest parking ticket rate in the St Louis area at over $100. Compare that to the one speeding ticket I ever got, back in the mid 80's, $32 for 14 mph over the limit. Even adjusted for inflation my ticket, for a much more serious offense, was less than a parking ticket would be in ferguson.
You REALLY haven't gotten a ticket lately. Speeding tickets (like everything else ;) ) have probably gone up more than inflation. I've gotten traffic tickets for $500 a pop and the instructor asked everyone in the class their ticket prices, and that was fairly typical $160-$600. Of course the more expensive were the camera tickets, always running at least $400, until they took away the cameras (for which everyone is very glad). I just paid $50 for a fix it ticket (not a traffic ticket) and $40-$50 for a parking ticket is not unusual and some places are known to exceed it. $100 does seem kind of excessive (see this is why you don't ask a Californian about the costs of such things - an arm and a leg sounds reasonable, does it cost an arm and a leg? I don't think such prices are quite so typical in MO)
It was a lousy and racist way to fund Ferguson anyway.
The whole issue of tickets for revenue has been a TV and movie (generally Southern) topic for decades. I dont agree with it but it is a common generally small community way of making money to pay for government. Nothing rare or new in this issue.
The whole issue of tickets for revenue has been a TV and movie (generally Southern) topic for decades. I dont agree with it but it is a common generally small community way of making money to pay for government. Nothing rare or new in this issue.
You're right. Several of the suburbs around my area are known for their aggressive traffic enforcement as that is how they raise a goodly portion of their operating revenue. It is typical in those little burgs to have speed traps where as you enter town the speed limit drops from roughly 50mph to 35mph, then several hundred yards later, drop again to 25mph. They get lots of 10mph over the limit tickets at around the 300 yards in point, each at around $150 per.
I have a hard time believing there's anything racial in this whole thing, but if it's not, it's not news is it?
gimmethesimplelife
3-6-15, 5:53pm
Rob. I hope this doesn't upset you. But I agree with you 100% here.Thank You for agreeing with me on this point, Bae. Now I'm curious - given that you agree on this one point, what do you believe should be done about it, if anything? I have gone on and on and on about what I believe should be done, I'm sure everyone has heard enough of what I think should be done. I'm curious though as to what you think should be done. Rob
You're right. Several of the suburbs around my area are known for their aggressive traffic enforcement as that is how they raise a goodly portion of their operating revenue. It is typical in those little burgs to have speed traps where as you enter town the speed limit drops from roughly 50mph to 35mph, then several hundred yards later, drop again to 25mph. They get lots of 10mph over the limit tickets at around the 300 yards in point, each at around $150 per.
The difference is that the target in the case of Ferguson are residents. For small town speed traps it's outsiders.
You REALLY haven't gotten a ticket lately. Speeding tickets (like everything else ;) ) have probably gone up more than inflation. I've gotten traffic tickets for $500 a pop and the instructor asked everyone in the class their ticket prices, and that was fairly typical $160-$600. Of course the more expensive were the camera tickets, always running at least $400, until they took away the cameras (for which everyone is very glad). I just paid $50 for a fix it ticket (not a traffic ticket) and $40-$50 for a parking ticket is not unusual and some places are known to exceed it. $100 does seem kind of excessive (see this is why you don't ask a Californian about the costs of such things - an arm and a leg sounds reasonable, does it cost an arm and a leg? I don't think such prices are quite so typical in MO)
I have recently gotten a parking ticket in San Francisco. $64. That seemed ok to me. More than $100 would not seem reasonable to me. Even NYC doesn't come close to that price for a standard parking ticket. $65. Certain situations like parking at a fire hydrant are more, which is reasonable, but basic parking in a no parking zone or expired meter, etc, $65. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/parking/violation_codes.shtml
The difference is that the target in the case of Ferguson are residents. For small town speed traps it's outsiders.Around here, being a resident doesn't make you immune, although it does help to know where the most lucrative spots are.
although it does help to know where the most lucrative spots are.
bingo.
At least we found out the "hands up, don't shoot" was a lie. I guess it was a catchy phrase that couldn't hurt anyone. So Holders just-us department was able to find the cops were giving tickets for a revenue stream. Not to shocking that they had to find something after all the rabble rousing.
I wonder how the honest citizen and business owners will like things if they get rid of the police department there. It will soon look like north St. Louis City. Mostly burned out and crime ridden.
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 2:30pm
At least we found out the "hands up, don't shoot" was a lie. I guess it was a catchy phrase that couldn't hurt anyone. So Holders just-us department was able to find the cops were giving tickets for a revenue stream. Not to shocking that they had to find something after all the rabble rousing.
I wonder how the honest citizen and business owners will like things if they get rid of the police department there. It will soon look like north St. Louis City. Mostly burned out and crime ridden.I take it you'd rather the status quo remained, with residents being vulnerable to an overstepping police force that even the Federal government is fessing up to? I personally would not like Ferguson to be burnt out and crime ridden - that is not what I'd want either. But the status quo isn't working, either.....please don't take my word for it, please google the government findings, which express this much better than I ever could. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 2:34pm
You're right. Several of the suburbs around my area are known for their aggressive traffic enforcement as that is how they raise a goodly portion of their operating revenue. It is typical in those little burgs to have speed traps where as you enter town the speed limit drops from roughly 50mph to 35mph, then several hundred yards later, drop again to 25mph. They get lots of 10mph over the limit tickets at around the 300 yards in point, each at around $150 per.
I have a hard time believing there's anything racial in this whole thing, but if it's not, it's not news is it?Once again I'll agree to disagree with you. I see nothing but racism in the government's findings. Apparently I'm not the only one out there with this perception. Good news is that maybe now something will get done about it. For starters I'd love to see the police chief in that town dismissed. And fees and fines for those living in poverty reduced, perhaps reducing the fines across the board for all might be a good idea at this point. To not cave on reducing fines is just asking for continued juicy media coverage if nothing else. Rob
Once again I'll agree to disagree with you. I see nothing but racism in the government's findings.
I think you're the DOJ's target audience.
Are you familiar with the song "The Boxer"? It's lyrics ran though my mind as I considered your words:
"I am just a poor boy though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises.
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest, hmmmm....."
iris lilies
3-7-15, 3:39pm
At least we found out the "hands up, don't shoot" was a lie. I guess it was a catchy phrase that couldn't hurt anyone....
Oh come now, reality won't trump perception. Hands up Don't Shoot will be a symbol for years to come.
As for Ferguson residents, wonder if they will exercise their power at the ballot box to vote the bastards out, or will they rely on agents of Nanny G. to take care of them?
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 6:30pm
Oh come now, reality won't trump perception. Hands up Don't Shoot will be a symbol for years to come.
As for Ferguson residents, wonder if they will exercise their power at the ballot box to vote the bastards out, or will they rely on agents of Nanny G. to take care of them?I'll agree with you on one point - the residents of Ferguson do need to get off their butts and get out there and if they are unhappy with any elected official, vote them out. On this I could not agree more.
About the Hands Up Don't Shoot - to me it is a very valid symbolic expression - case in point - recently in Alabama an elderly man from India was attacked by the police - partly because he could not communicate in English to the police. He is now partially paralyzed on one side and Thank Goodness he is suing.....and gathered some juicy media coverage. This was yet another case of police going too far that needs to be cold bloodedly and aggressively curtailed. I can understand that many on this board don't get where I am coming from - I'll accept that as reality is shades different for different people, I get that. However, for those who have learned through no real fault of their own to be afraid of the police Hand Up Don't Shoot will remain symbolic for years to come. It's almost a rallying cry at this point. And what I really like is that it is a rallying cry that seems to go beyond race - African Americans are not the only ones for whom this is symbolic. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 6:33pm
I think you're the DOJ's target audience.
Are you familiar with the song "The Boxer"? It's lyrics ran though my mind as I considered your words:
"I am just a poor boy though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises.
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest, hmmmm....."I'd love to switch socioeconomic places with you for one month, with both of us switching places in society. I'd love to talk to you after a period of on month on how you feel about the police then, once you have experienced life on my side. And it would be interesting for me to see life a couple of bumps up on the pole too.....it would be very interesting to compare notes. Too bad it can't happen. But at least we might understand each other's reality a bit more. Rob
Hand Up Don't Shoot will remain symbolic for years to come. It's almost a rallying cry at this point.
Thanks, I've been finding it hard to keep up with all the self defeating mantras. And people wonder why we don't have more class mobility....
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 8:13pm
Thanks, I've been finding it hard to keep up with all the self defeating mantras. And people wonder why we don't have more class mobility....I'd love it if we could switch places socioeconomically for a month too and then meet to compare notes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if after four weeks living where I do and experiencing what I do that you never made a comment like the one above again. Unfortunately, we are not going to switch places so all I can do is to agree to disagree with you and to post my truth. As for class mobility as a separate topic, studies have shown that it is higher now in some of Western Europe than the United States - which doesn't surprise me with decent paying jobs being offshored to the third world so that those on the very top can make yet more money. All I can say is that if thing continue as is, the United States is not going to end well. OTOH I'd like to live to see this - and I believe I will if I live my expected life span - on the other hand, it's going to get really ugly and people will learn things I already know about America - part of me would like to pass on this experience. All I can do is live the best I can every day and as my family in Austria advises, have a suitcase packed just in case I need to flee in a hurry - with 18 trillion dollars of debt and counting in the US I believe this is very good advice. Thirty years ago I would have thought such advise was a bit extreme - no longer do I believe such is extreme. Rob
I'd love it if we could switch places socioeconomically for a month too and then meet to compare notes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if after four weeks living where I do and experiencing what I do that you never made a comment like the one above again.
LOL, been there, done that. For a lot longer than a month! You make such silly assumptions about people.
I think there are plenty of people here that if you took away everything they had and put them out on the street they would not remain "poor" forever, maybe even not for long. Why not? What separates them from people who remain mired in poverty? And don't say luck, because I think it's pretty predictable who will and who won't. Any other ideas?
as my family in Austria advises, have a suitcase packed just in case I need to flee in a hurry - with 18 trillion dollars of debt and counting in the US I believe this is very good advice.
LOL, just flipped from reading your post to the latest financial news. Maybe they should pack a suitcase too.
http://www.businessinsider.com/austria-is-fast-becoming-europes-latest-debt-nightmare-2015-3
Austria is fast becoming Europe's latest debt nightmare
A mini-Greece could go off in Europe's heartlands
what has been holding you back from moving up the last 30 or so years? I would think by now you would have figured out that waiting tables is not the pathway to riches. I'm sure there are some that make a decent living doing it, but I don't know anyone in my neighborhood.
LOL, been there, done that. For a lot longer than a month! You make such silly assumptions about people.
Me too. I'm certain that I started life in poverty the likes of which Rob has never experienced. Assumptions indeed!
Rob, I'm interested in your your current situation and what you think would be surprising to others. From this side of the screen life is looking good for you (I mean this sincerely). You have a job, health insurance, a place to live, food to eat, clothes, friends, social support, and a relative with enough means to send you abroad.
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 10:03pm
LOL, just flipped from reading your post to the latest financial news. Maybe they should pack a suitcase too.
http://www.businessinsider.com/austria-is-fast-becoming-europes-latest-debt-nightmare-2015-3
Austria is fast becoming Europe's latest debt nightmare
A mini-Greece could go off in Europe's heartlands
I didn't know this but I'm not surprised. Not only Europe but also the rest of the developed world is awash in way too much debt. Scary thing is now that we have all these free trade agreements decent paying jobs have to flee to slave labor wage countries and wonderful social benefits that I so approve of are going to be very hard to keep funded under these conditions. I am not unaware of this. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 10:06pm
I think there are plenty of people here that if you took away everything they had and put them out on the street they would not remain "poor" forever, maybe even not for long. Why not? What separates them from people who remain mired in poverty? And don't say luck, because I think it's pretty predictable who will and who won't. Any other ideas?I don't buy the pick yourself up by the bootstraps thing - I saw through this at the age of 14 and started questioning it at 12. In a hyper competitive system a few people will rise to the top - I don't argue this at all. What really matters is how stable are the lives of folks in the middle and how vulnerable are the folks at the bottom? The US doesn't score well using my criteria at least as far as developed countries go. We could do far better but that would mean less money flowing up to the top, we can't have that, can we? Big reason right there I don't believe in America. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-15, 10:19pm
Rob, I'm interested in your your current situation and what you think would be surprising to others. From this side of the screen life is looking good for you (I mean this sincerely). You have a job, health insurance, a place to live, food to eat, clothes, friends, social support, and a relative with enough means to send you abroad. I am not doing as bad as I have in the past, I'll give you that. Very lucky I am that I am going overseas later this year - I won't deny that either. The health insurance I may very well lose this summer as there is a lawsuit against Medicaid expansion going through the courts as we speak - and I have no faith that expanded Medicaid won't be taken away in Arizona. But even there I am only five hours away from Mexicali and as you know have no problem offshoring my health, dental and optical. I think what bothers me now is the quality of life isssues in this country. Case in point - today I was walking down the street I live to the bus stop to send some packages out (things I had sold on ebay) at the post office - and a cop very slowly drove by me. I was full of adrenaline as I know that I have no real rights against this cop - he could shoot me, kill me, and lie about it and get away with it, just like in a third world country. Once you realize something like that, that you have no real rights in certain situations, it's much easier to see the rot all around you.
I see more homeless people than I ever have in Phoenix before, I see the long lines at the food bank I volunteer at, I see people I know mid 40's and above getting laid off forced into work (if they can even find anything) paying much less than their last wage with no real hope of ever climbing up the ladder again. I see wages not budging and food costs soaring, ditto utilities costs. I see a lot wrong all around me and I don't see much getting better. Though I will say I have always seen the rot even when things were better, and I don't know at this late date that I will ever have any loyalty to any country I might find myself in - I don't think I'm capable of this at this late date. I don't see much of a future in the United States, really. Too much of the pie is sifting up to the top and the system is set up so that this can happen. I trust this answers your question? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-15, 1:07am
Ummmm.....just heard of the fatal shooting of an unarmed African American 19 year old by a Caucasion LEO in Madison, Wisconsin. Apparently protests are being organized and perhaps we'll have a repeat of last summer to some degree.....something truly needs to change here. That's all I can say now, something truly needs to change here. Rob
I trust this answers your question? Rob
Not so much;). It shares how people around you may be living, but you offered to switch socioeconomic places with others so that they could see your situation. Your situation, even with the above, still looks quite good. On another note, my father is from Guatemala and I think he would take issue your your "just like a third world country" comment.
I think there are plenty of people here that if you took away everything they had and put them out on the street they would not remain "poor" forever, maybe even not for long. Why not? What separates them from people who remain mired in poverty? And don't say luck, because I think it's pretty predictable who will and who won't. Any other ideas?
If I had to guess I'd say that those few people who have successfully used their own bootstraps once can probably utilize the knowledge gained the first time around to do it again. Probably with a lot less effort the second time around.
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-15, 2:30am
Not so much;). It shares how people around you may be living, but you offered to switch socioeconomic places with others so that they could see your situation. Your situation, even with the above, still looks quite good. On another note, my father is from Guatemala and I think he would take issue your your "just like a third world country" comment.You have me absolutely intrigued, Reyes. How is a police officer gunning me down, lying about it, and getting away with it here any different than if it were to occur in the third world? I am absolutely intrigued by your comment, I really am. Rob
Me too. I'm certain that I started life in poverty the likes of which Rob has never experienced. Assumptions indeed!
I grew up in a 10-wide mobile home, to the soothing sounds of banjo music accompanied by bloodhounds. Grandma didn't move out of it until about 15 years ago. I'm sort of glad we got away from that, and that I still have all my teeth and appendages. Still, I learned how to cook up a mean corn mash for making grandpa's moonshine. (The family went legit and got into stock car racing, drag racing, and NASCAR when things picked up. Moonshiner/runner to race car driver to race track owner in only 3 generations, it's an American success story really.)
I still have a banjo and a coonhound. You can take the boy out of the holler, but you can't take the holler out of the boy.
.. a cop very slowly drove by me. I was full of adrenaline as I know that I have no real rights against this cop - he could shoot me, kill me, and lie about it and get away with it, just like in a third world country.
That's not how it really works though.
ApatheticNoMore
3-8-15, 3:40am
If I had to guess I'd say that those few people who have successfully used their own bootstraps once can probably utilize the knowledge gained the first time around to do it again. Probably with a lot less effort the second time around.
whereas a person who had always been middle class who suddenly lost it all would probably be hopeless screwed. Hmm maybe. I don't see stuff as repeatable, it's stepping in the same river twice, it's never the same river. It's one thing to start a career as a fresh face youngster when the economy was not great but not terrible, and have someone give you a chance and hire you on etc. - but is that repeatable in middle age? Shrug, probably not so easily.
I don't buy the pick yourself up by the bootstraps thing
That's been obvious for a while Rob.
something truly needs to change here. That's all I can say now, something truly needs to change here.
It does, but not what you are thinking.
As an aside, I used to think it was stupid for people to rush to judgment on these high profile cases only to be proven wrong by the facts later. Now I think it's probably more offensive than that, no one cares about the facts, people just want to pimp a claim regardless of the facts so you push the narrative early as whatever you want since there doesn't seem to be any consequence to being wrong or even lying.
But at first blush you are still waiting for a good poster child
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/armed-robbery/tony-robinson-shooting-890562
Wisconsin Shooting Victim, 19, Was Convicted Last Year For Role In Armed Home Invasion
The unarmed Wisconsin teenager who was shot to death last night during a confrontation with a Madison cop pleaded guilty last year to armed robbery and recently began serving a three-year probation term for that felony conviction, court records show.
According to police, an officer responded Friday to a 911 call about a man who had assaulted a victim and was dodging cars in traffic. The cop followed the suspect into a nearby apartment, where the man allegedly struck the officer in the head, knocking him to the ground. During an ensuing struggle, patrolman Matt Kenny fatally shot the suspect.
Yossarian, of course, the "my baby dindu nuffin'" has already started from the mother of the black guy who was shot in Madison. The mother said her son was never a violent person. Really? When he's got that conviction?
Madison is quite different from Ferguson. Liberal as all get out, large university there. White by a large majority.
ApatheticNoMore
3-8-15, 10:18am
I think there are plenty of people here that if you took away everything they had and put them out on the street they would not remain "poor" forever, maybe even not for long. Why not? What separates them from people who remain mired in poverty? And don't say luck, because I think it's pretty predictable who will and who won't. Any other ideas?
I don't buy the pick yourself up by the bootstraps thing
I think if any such skills exist they might be more skills at self-employment than anything (by losing everything we mean losing any job skills they may have trained for etc.?). Because it seems employment is fickle. But if that's what's meant are we really prepared to say everyone should be an entrepreneur? How would that even work? (although of course there have been periods with more entrepreneurship, we do live in a very corporate age).
One certainly isn't protected by one's specialness (the shield of narcissism and grandiosity :laff: ), even with unique gifts which may be real, it doesn't mean one won't get sick or in an accident, that the bus is never late for them, and that it won't rain on one's wedding day etc. (though don't schedule it for that time of year duh). And it no more means one comes with some kind of economic guarantee inherently stamped on them, so to speak. But one may be more or less protected by whatever they have built up (savings, a resume, etc.).
I think if any such skills exist they might be more skills at self-employment than anything (by losing everything we mean losing any job skills they may have trained for etc.?). Because it seems employment is fickle. But if that's what's meant are we really prepared to say everyone should be an entrepreneur? How would that even work? (although of course there have been periods with more entrepreneurship, we do live in a very corporate time).
One certainly isn't protected by one's specialness (the shield of narcissism and grandiosity :laff: ), even with unique gifts which may be real, it doesn't mean one won't get sick or in an accident, that the bus is never late for them, and that it won't rain on one's wedding day etc.. and it no more means one comes with some kind of economic guarantee. But one may be more or less protected by whatever they have built up (savings, a resume, etc.).
You're missing the most important element, that being the desire/drive/ambition/willingness to change the current dynamic for the better. Most people provide for themselves, others await provision. You can usually tell which group individuals fall into.
ApatheticNoMore
3-8-15, 10:40am
You're missing the most important element, that being the desire/drive/ambition/willingness to change the current dynamic for the better. Most people provide for themselves, others await provision. You can usually tell which group individuals fall into.
Even if necessary, I don't think it's sufficient.
So that's why I went deep on the question of well are there such non-technical (ie I'm not talking about being an MD or something) skills? If so I doubt they are the skills people think they are. I imagine there's people working the black market who will do ok no matter what, but that's not a world anyone from a white market background gravitates that naturally to probably. Maybe there are people so charismatic they can get a job offer from any party they attend, but even this sounds rather unbelievable really - even though social skills are probably way underrated as a means of getting by and ahead.
I think a necessary condition is accepting that one has "agency", by that I mean, some people think they can change their lot in life, and some people think they have no control and are subject to whatever comes their way. The ones who believe they can change their lot in life often do. The ones who don't are not going to do anything to put themselves into a better situation, and "luck" is therefore unlikely to find them. My side of the family has agency, my husband's side of the family has many members who do not have agency. "It's just the way things are", "maybe we'll luck out", "maybe I'll win the lottery", "it'll all work out" (even though its unlikely to) are sayings one hears from people that don't believe they have any effect upon the world.
[QUOTE=Tradd;199627]Yossarian, of course, the "my baby dindu nuffin'" has already started from the mother of the black guy who was shot in Madison. The mother said her son was never a violent person. Really? When he's got that conviction? [QUOTE]
I was thinking about this too. I hear this a lot from the mothers of the young black men who commit crimes. How can this be? Is it denial, or have they been totally absent from their child's upbringing?
And I do wonder if some of the findings in investigations are skewed towards not making the situation worse and appearing to side in favor of the not-so-innocent "victim".
iris lilies
3-8-15, 12:03pm
[QUOTE=Tradd;199627]Yossarian, of course, the "my baby dindu nuffin'" has already started from the mother of the black guy who was shot in Madison. The mother said her son was never a violent person. Really? When he's got that conviction? [QUOTE]
I was thinking about this too. I hear this a lot from the mothers of the young black men who commit crimes. How can this be? Is it denial, or have they been totally absent from their child's upbringing?
And I do wonder if some of the findings in investigations are skewed towards not making the situation worse and appearing to side in favor of the not-so-innocent "victim".
I remember some years ago in one of the many shootings in St. Louis, where the mother of a black youth who committed a gun murder or two was interviewed by the local newspaper. She was so classy! she apologized for the loss of life and for her son's action in it. I just want to hug her!
And – – I wanted to say I'm sorry to her because she lost a son he'll be in prison the rest of his life, it's all tragic and if we could just agree to that rather than immediately taking stupid sides that be great.
I think a necessary condition is accepting that one has "agency", by that I mean, some people think they can change their lot in life, and some people think they have no control and are subject to whatever comes their way. The ones who believe they can change their lot in life often do. The ones who don't are not going to do anything to put themselves into a better situation, and "luck" is therefore unlikely to find them. My side of the family has agency, my husband's side of the family has many members who do not have agency. "It's just the way things are", "maybe we'll luck out", "maybe I'll win the lottery", "it'll all work out" (even though its unlikely to) are sayings one hears from people that don't believe they have any effect upon the world.
I agree. And I think it is in large part learned behavior. My dad got knocked down a few times, but always got up swinging. I saw that growing up and, even if I didn't totally understand it at the time, inherited some of those traits. If all someone is exposed to is a more passive attitude regarding their lot in life then why would anyone expect them to possess a desire to break out? Sure, a few do regardless, but I think most of us are to a very large degree products of our environments. If that's true then changing the environment is the only way to elicit any real change. We're not very good at doing that.
If my memory serves me today, I believe I read somewhere sometime that "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" was coined as a way to show that it's impossible. You can't pick yourself up by your bootstraps. Someone else had to help you.
Just sayin...
:)
I too have been poor. Spent 4 years living with 5 of us in a 2 bedroom trailer, making less than 20,000 a year, no insurance, sometimes only having a few meals of food left in the house. We never missed a meal but it was close. Some weeks we only had $30 for groceries.
Fun thing is that we were republican at the time, didn't believe in government handouts, so we didn't take them. We figured that if we actually ran out of food then we could ask about food stamps. actually turned down free health insurance for the kids when someone offered it through a govt program.
Now that life is changed and I'm standing a lot higher in my bootstraps, I wish we had accepted social assistance those 4 years. It was a lot of worry to get through those years. But we were proud, religious, and republican because of the connection between politics and religion the conservative arena of the early 1990s.
Fun thing is that we were republican at the time......Just out of curiosity, did you not accept assistance because you were Republican or did your belief in self-reliance make you a Republican? I'm not sure what role your political environment has to the subject unless you're saying that those traits which guided you to a particular party affiliation were the same traits which got you through a hard time.
Our conservative brand of Christianity (pro life, anti big govt, suspicious of many things, God will heal us, etc) influenced our republicanism. Think Pat Robertson.
We really believed God would provide. We really believed democrats were a slippery slope to hell. Ergo: we can't accept food stamps and welfare because of these beliefs.
Staunch libertarianism meets fundamentalist Christianity meets people who actually tried to live what they believed.
I'm not sure I answered your question ... I tell this story here first because we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me. Secondly I tell this story to show that I've been poor and I've been rich, and isn't it funny how now that I don't qualify for assistance I would actually accept it and I now believe in a safety net for everyone.
Maybe if everyone had the chance to live on both sides we would have more understanding and grace in the ferguson type debates.
I'm not sure I answered your question ... I tell this story here first because we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me.
Or perhaps there are multiple meanings to the phrase. Back in the 50's, early computer programmers used the term bootstrapping to describe the process of loading one function into a computer, which then loaded subsequent functions which eventually allowed the computer to "boot".
When I read the phrase, I think of those small actions which build upon themselves to eventually achieve a goal.
we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me.
It's an idiom, it doesn't need to be literal
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/pull+yourself+up+by+your+bootstraps.html
Idiom: Pull yourself up by your bootstraps
Meaning 1:
If you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you make the effort to improve things for yourself.
Meaning 2:
If you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you improve your problem or situation by your own efforts, without anyone else's help.
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-15, 1:53pm
About the young man shot and killed in Madison, Wisconsin - I'm not saying he wasn't a thug and I knew of his prior felony charge before posting as I did - I still don't believe shooting and killing him was justified. A spell in prison maybe yes - but killing him, no. It seems to me that for people who have made a serious mistake in their past - like this dead 19 year old, and like Michael Brown in Ferguson - it's way too easy to be deemed disposable by society and end out getting murdered by police. In the past there used to be this wonderful thing called second chances, but something I have learned during research after a post by Lainey a few months back is that if you commit a misdemeanor even - not a felony - good luck finding employment of any kind in this job market with background checks being what they are.
These two young men - Michael Brown and this 19 year old dead in Wisconsin - would really never have had a chance at employment in life due to background checks and not being worth a second chance in life in the United States. It's really depressing to me how easy it is to be disposable to society - even if convicted of a small misdemeanor - yet another reason to fear America. Who here hasn't done something that equals a misdemeanor these days in their life? It seems to me that eventually you could get hauled in and charged for sneezing too loud. Though I will admit that this 19 year old and also Michael Brown committed some serious mistakes, definitely not small misdemeanors. I still believe they were worth a second chance at employment and a place at the table in society. After that second chance, then yes I'm for more stringent punishment such as being unemployable - but then not for life as they would be if they were still alive. Rob
So your saying the thugs should be allowed to attack the police officers? I wonder how many police officers have been killed in the last year by some of these thugs?
iris lilies
3-8-15, 6:12pm
I think a necessary condition is accepting that one has "agency", by that I mean, some people think they can change their lot in life, and some people think they have no control and are subject to whatever comes their way. The ones who believe they can change their lot in life often do. The ones who don't are not going to do anything to put themselves into a better situation, and "luck" is therefore unlikely to find them. My side of the family has agency, my husband's side of the family has many members who do not have agency. "It's just the way things are", "maybe we'll luck out", "maybe I'll win the lottery", "it'll all work out" (even though its unlikely to) are sayings one hears from people that don't believe they have any effect upon the world.
yes, great post. The concept of agency is, I guess, demonstrated within the culture and within families.
i am fortunate to have, as does, DH, Both sides of our families with agency. That gives one a great launching pad for life in middle class America.
Regarding the idiom:
https://abetterworldisprobable.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/pulling-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps-an-etymology-of-an-american-dream/
Quote:
"... it is literally impossible for a person to lift themselves up by their bootstraps, which was the original intention of the expression."
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-15, 9:17pm
So your saying the thugs should be allowed to attack the police officers? I wonder how many police officers have been killed in the last year by some of these thugs?Wrong. I am not saying thugs should be allowed to attack police officers any more that police officers should be allowed to attack thugs (or non thugs) on the weakest and flimsiest of excuses such as in some high profile recent incidents. Case in point - if you want to learn something very dark about America, google the recent attack in Alabama on an elderly man from India - he was attacked because he could not speak English to respond to officers questions. The attack left him paralyzed on one side and he's suing for millions as he rightly should.
This is the country we live in - if you approve, more power to you. I did not sign up for out of control government thug police forces. All I can say is I'm grateful I have white skin - not that I believe this is great in and of itself but it does make me less likely to encounter police brutality than if I didn't have white skin. But you know what - if you were to come back and say, what are you doing about it, you'd have a point. This is an issue that causes such terror for so many - I need to be engaging in some kind of legal activism. If nothing else I have the righteous indignation to keep me going with it. Rob
It's to bad you live in fear of the police. But the vast majority of them are doing their job. I know several and I consider them good people. From what I've read about the choir boys that got themselves shot, they were just thugs doing what they do. They would have robbed and beaten you without remorse. You would be safer with a random policeman than either of those two.
have you considered counseling about your fears?
gimmethesimplelife
3-9-15, 9:00am
It's to bad you live in fear of the police. But the vast majority of them are doing their job. I know several and I consider them good people. From what I've read about the choir boys that got themselves shot, they were just thugs doing what they do. They would have robbed and beaten you without remorse. You would be safer with a random policeman than either of those two.
have you considered counseling about your fears?I have no doubt that there are some decent police officers who don't over step their authority - really, I don't doubt this. The problem is often (but I'll admit not always) in lower income neighborhoods something happens to some officers and their behavior leads to escalation. I would agree it takes two to tango - but I'd also agree that some officers enter a situation with an attitude before they even know all the facts. Much like I feel fear every time I see an officer. About the counseling thing - you could pretty much send my entire neighborhood to counseling - you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't feel this way in my neighborhood. I will admit it is a primarily Hispanic area - but I do know most of the Caucasians in the area due to my involvement setting up neighborhood meetings. They feel the same way - I introduced myself to several I knew only a little of when we had the neighborhood meeting regarding what to do in case of police harassment/brutality.
Stopping and thinking this over logically, and absent of the feeling of fear, it's a pretty sad day when a neighborhood meeting is held to advise the neighbors who show up how to handle the police - giving tips and pointers - never say anything and maintain your calm (hard for some people, though). Always ask "Am I free to go now?" Make sure to ask this repeatedly as it gives the officers the idea that you know something of your legal rights and will not be afraid to cash in via a lawsuit if they go too far. Never discuss anything or answer any questions, politely saying that you'd rather not speak of this issue. And of course, as I've said so many times, never leave home without a fully charged smartphone with video capability - video comes in handy for lawsuits and can sway public opinion/get you intimidating media coverage for leverage in court.
My point with the above is that it's come to a really sad day in America when a neighborhood meeting covers the above and the police are considered an enemy. I blame the police for past misbehavior and unnecessary escalation of situations. You say you know some good officers and I don't doubt that as I said. I have a hard time believing they are all bad. The problem is, you never know what kind of officer you are going to get and escalation on their side, not yours, can lead to your death with the officers involved getting off scott free. Sad but true. This is the America I know - if you knew this America, how jazzed would you feel about living here? I pose this question to you. Rob
PS. I came back to add to this post as I wanted to end it on a positive note. The elderly man from India I referred to in another post who was attacked by an officer in Alabama leading to one side of his body being paralyzed? Good news.....the officer involved is being charged. I feel such hope for this as this happened in Alabama....the deep South - but the officer is still being charged. This gives me some hope. It really does. Now if only there was consistency in handling police officer's human rights violations.....but at least this one time justice seems to be being served with the involved officer being charged with assault. So there is some hope.
a neighborhood meeting is held to advise the neighbors who show up how to handle the police - giving tips and pointers - never say anything and maintain your calm (hard for some people, though). Always ask "Am I free to go now?" Make sure to ask this repeatedly as it gives the officers the idea that you know something of your legal rights and will not be afraid to cash in via a lawsuit if they go too far. Never discuss anything or answer any questions, politely saying that you'd rather not speak of this issue. And of course, as I've said so many times, never leave home without a fully charged smartphone with video capability - video comes in handy for lawsuits and can sway public opinion/get you intimidating media coverage for leverage in court.
I think we already had Exhibit A, so let's call this Exhibit B on why some people are stuck in a bad situation.
PS- you forgot to pass out the don't snitch T-shirts.
If I didn't like where I lived, I'd move. I just moved 1000 miles due mostly to the weather. What's keeping you there?
gimmethesimplelife
3-9-15, 4:19pm
If I didn't like where I lived, I'd move. I just moved 1000 miles due mostly to the weather. What's keeping you there?A very low cost of living I am not going to beat anywhere else - my half of the mortgage is $250 a month - wonderful neighbors - a real feeling of community - close access to Mexico for affordable medical, dental, optical and medications and also much cheaper herbal teas. I don't know that I would be wise to give this all up, especially the cheap mortgage and the quick access to Mexico. Rob
PS I came back to make a correction as my mortgage number above is wrong - my 1/2 of the mortgage is $225 a month and not $250, sorry for being off on this number, I should know better.
You asked what I would do. I wouldn't live in Ferguson either though, but I bet the rent is cheap there. The neighbors even have bonfires on occasion. And your OK with going to Mexico, but your afraid of your local Police.
And I thought you were getting free government healthcare thanks to Allan paying his more than fair share.
So you like where you live, but not America, because you don't get enough free stuff and your afraid of the police. it's hard to keep track sometimes.
If you have close access to Mexico, seems like you could live in Mexico and have close access to the US
gimmethesimplelife
3-9-15, 8:41pm
If you have close access to Mexico, seems like you could live in Mexico and have close access to the USSome people do this, you have a point. The last time I crossed the border at Nogales, I had a conversation with a young woman who worked at the ticket counter on the US side for busses going on down to Mexico. She was around 24 and said she was a US citizen living on the Mexican side (I'm sure it helped that she was bilingual and Hispanic) because her dollars stretched so much further on the Mexican side. Overall - some things are cheaper on the US side. I remember being so impressed that someone that young would figure that out and make the border price wage/price differential work for them.
I will say I wouldn't do this in Nogales, Mexico, though, as Nogales has had it's share of cartel activity. It's been quiet recently and I'm sure there are people back to playing the border price/wage differential game but as of yet I wouldn't do this in Nogales, I'd go to Algodones which is much safer. But yes indeed you have a point here. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-9-15, 8:51pm
You asked what I would do. I wouldn't live in Ferguson either though, but I bet the rent is cheap there. The neighbors even have bonfires on occasion. And your OK with going to Mexico, but your afraid of your local Police.
And I thought you were getting free government healthcare thanks to Allan paying his more than fair share.
So you like where you live, but not America, because you don't get enough free stuff and your afraid of the police. it's hard to keep track sometimes.There are still parts of Mexico that are safer than major US cities. The whole country is not like the image the media feeds us. Simple networking with Hispanics you have earned trust from and also simple research online will point you to the safe areas.
I'm not asking for free stuff, DMC, I don't know where you get this from. I do my share volunteering downtown at St Mary's Food Bank, this is why I was able to post earlier of how long the lines are for food packs. I might qualify currently for food stamps but I have not applied as I'm able to feed myself on my own and someone in worse shape than me needs the food stamps worse than I do. My Medicaid might very well expire this summer anyway as there is a lawsuit against expanded Medicaid winding it's way through the courts in Arizona as I type this. I count on Medicaid for nothing, though I will admit I am grateful that I did get my surgery done last year on Medicaid. That was fortunate timing as my guess is that I will be back to going to Mexico for everything again in the future - but I'm totally down with that.
About America - it's not a good fit for me. Is that such a horrible thing to fess up to, and if so, why? If I am truly free I should be able to come to such conclusions based on life experiences. About the police, if you would kindly google what happened to the elderly Indian man in Alabama recently, and realize that this is not an entirely isolated incident, you might understand (?) fear of the police. Certainly they are to be avoided as much as humanely possible.
I'm going to just agree to disagree with you at this point. No need to keep going around in circles. Rob
I've had bad waiters, but I still go to restaraunts and give each one the benefit of the doubt :)
I wonder if the rabble rousers are happy now?
The rabble routers are probably going to be disappointed those two cops aren't dead, since they kept saying they wanted dead cops.
I have real concerns about where this is all heading. Racism is just getting worse and worse. But it just validates my feelings about what might be hard-wired in us to be with our own "kind".
.....and also what happens when a country tries to be too fair and too equal all the time. People aren't equal and life isn't fair. I don't mean that in a bigoted kind of way. I'm just thinking about nature and what seems to work and what doesn't.
The concept might have been a noble one in the beginning, and maybe it would have worked in Utopia, but this ain't Utopia. Of course I don't want us to act just like animals. I'm just saying that the further away we try to distance ourselves from primitive/natural behaviors, the more trouble we're going to run into. All the lines are getting blurred........what's right/wrong, what's reasonable/unreasonable, what's good/bad, fair/unfair. Human beings/cultures aren't a one-size-fits-all kinda thing.
I know some of you are saying that you live in a neighborhood where there are many cultures and everyone gets along.........That's great. But I'm not sure that's the norm everywhere else.
The thing about rabble rousers is, they don't take responsibility for their actions and our current controlling authorities, from the DOJ on down, not only refuse to hold them accountable but encourage them. Our culture is in decline. This is an example.
I agree Alan...........people aren't held responsible for much. But don't you think that stance by this country is in alignment with our trying to be more "humane"...and "fair"?
We have a lot of black crime (most of the crime) in the city near here..........and most of them are repeat offenders. But.........we seem to always want to give them a second, third, fourth, fifth chance.
We seem to think that discipline/consequences infringes on their rights too much, or is too inhumane. Some criminals aren't capable of being any different, and I don't see why we should continue to put our society at risk and use up a lot of money on them, just because we're trying to be more "humane". I'm not heartless. I'm just trying to figure out what would ultimately help (and maybe save) our society. But I really believe the hopes and dreams of this country might be impossible to attain, with what we're expecting and what we refuse to deviate from.
And just to get back to what I was bringing up earlier, is that I'm not sure we CAN have an end to racism. The culture of some of these people is too different from some of the rest of ours. And for anyone (in government) or anywhere else, to admit this, would be considered racist and evil. (Plus.........what the heck would you even do about it?). Maybe everyone getting along is just an impossible dream.
We seem to think that discipline/consequences infringes on their rights too much, or is too inhumane.
I guess that's why we lock up more citizens than any other country??? And why our prison population has steadily increased despite the fact that crime rates have steadily fallen for the past 20 years.
iris lilies
3-12-15, 11:02am
I wonder if the rabble rousers are happy now?
I doubt it. The rabble rousers were there protesting the resignation of the Ferguson police chief. Yes, I know it doesn't make sense, but that's who they are. Thugs. I guess any excuse to assassinate a police officer suffices.
iris lilies
3-12-15, 11:09am
I guess that's why we lock up more citizens than any other country??? And why our prison population has steadily increased despite the fact that crime rates have steadily fallen for the past 20 years.
Well, all I know is that we in my neighborhood have to organize a group to attend court hearings to see that the kind and gentle judges put the thugs in jail. Even if for a short time (and it usually is a short time) the thugs are off the street and out of our neighborhood.
Our latest neighborhood thug was not given jail time last month, despite the presence of several neighbors in the courtroom. Screw that. The essential problem from my point of view is that the thugs' attorneys know the game and they cancel a court hearing (after our neighborhood is poised and ready to descend on the court) and then reschedule. Rinse and repeat. After a while, the group that prepares to visit court becomes tired of the games or--shockingly--has to actually WORK for a living during the day and cannot take that much time off from work to show up in court. Thugs win.
Is this a great country, or what!!!????
gimmethesimplelife
3-12-15, 4:17pm
I think we already had Exhibit A, so let's call this Exhibit B on why some people are stuck in a bad situation.
PS- you forgot to pass out the don't snitch T-shirts.I take it then that you are OK with the recent police assault upon the elderly gentleman from India which left him paralyzed on one side? It seems you have glossed over this issue to make your point....My point is that you never know what type of officer you are dealing with and to have anything to do with the police is risking your life. If you find this statement to be over the top, please, be my guest and google what happened to the elderly man from India in Alabama. The officer involved DID get charged, something for which I am very grateful, and the gentleman is suing for millions and I bet he does get a huge settlement. The point here is you really don't know what type of officer you are dealing with and for the most part, your rights don't matter as far as the police are concerned. It is often about revenue extraction and their egos. The way the system is set up it is hard to get the upper hand over them to level the playing field and demand your basic human rights as per the law. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-12-15, 4:19pm
I guess that's why we lock up more citizens than any other country??? And why our prison population has steadily increased despite the fact that crime rates have steadily fallen for the past 20 years.Very good point, jp1, and also very true. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-12-15, 4:26pm
Well, all I know is that we in my neighborhood have to organize a group to attend court hearings to see that the kind and gentle judges put the thugs in jail. Even if for a short time (and it usually is a short time) the thugs are off the street and out of our neighborhood.
Our latest neighborhood thug was not given jail time last month, despite the presence of several neighbors in the courtroom. Screw that. The essential problem from my point of view is that the thugs' attorneys know the game and they cancel a court hearing (after our neighborhood is poised and ready to descend on the court) and then reschedule. Rinse and repeat. After a while, the group that prepares to visit court becomes tired of the games or--shockingly--has to actually WORK for a living during the day and cannot take that much time off from work to show up in court. Thugs win.
Is this a great country, or what!!!????I'm not going to deny that you have a point here, IL. I'm thinking the real truth is somewhere between my stance and yours here to be quite honest. I just want to state that there are instances where the police truly do go too far, such as with the elderly gentleman in Alabama recently who was from India and could not answer officer's questions in English so they brutally assaulted him. Thankfully the POS officer involved has been arrested and charged and the elderly gentleman is suing for millions and I'm of the opinion he'll get them....I just hope there's no gag order on it so that others will be encouraged to step forward and sue the police for their misdeeds. Officers of the law need to be held accountable to the law, too, in my book, with no exceptions.
All that being said, I'm 100% against the officers being shot at last night in Ferguson. That was stupid, brutal, and inhumane any way you slice it. It certainly is not going to help with race relations, police/resident relations, or with the court of public opinion. This is just as bad as the case I keep referring to in Alabama. It takes two sides to tango and this was a horribly stupid and thug type action and I have nothing to say to justify it or excuse it. Rob
You know what? I, am SO indignant about this whole Ferguson thing, that I have abandoned my plans to move there, as I mentioned I just might, last fall on the record-breaking thread about the subject. I thought maybe I could do my civic duty, and serve as Alderman or Mayor or even the Po-Leese Chief, to restore Law N' Order. Maybe, even have a community block party. But no, it's not gonna happen---even if they beg littlebittymeee "pretty pleeeeeze--move here and take over!!!" Forget it. Ha. That'll teach 'em.
iris lilies
3-12-15, 10:10pm
...All that being said, I'm 100% against the officers being shot at last night in Ferguson....
Well, that is something positive. :)
gimmethesimplelife
3-12-15, 10:20pm
Well, that is something positive. :)Cool. We agree on something! Rob
Well, all I know is that we in my neighborhood have to organize a group to attend court hearings to see that the kind and gentle judges put the thugs in jail. Even if for a short time (and it usually is a short time) the thugs are off the street and out of our neighborhood.
Our latest neighborhood thug was not given jail time last month, despite the presence of several neighbors in the courtroom. Screw that. The essential problem from my point of view is that the thugs' attorneys know the game and they cancel a court hearing (after our neighborhood is poised and ready to descend on the court) and then reschedule. Rinse and repeat. After a while, the group that prepares to visit court becomes tired of the games or--shockingly--has to actually WORK for a living during the day and cannot take that much time off from work to show up in court. Thugs win.
Is this a great country, or what!!!????
I suppose you could move to Miami Gardens, where a few years ago the newly created police force went on the offensive big time. So much so that they repeatedly arrested a man for trespassing at his place of employment while he was working... http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two It was only after the man's employer went to the Miami Herald and shared this absurd story that the harassment of the poor guy stopped. Not that he was the only resident being hassled by the cops. Miami Gardens, a small city in Dade County, issued an order of magnitude more tickets and summons for stuff than did Miami.
In all seriousness though I suspect that there are extremes in both directions which points to the problem of unequal enforcement of the law generally. Given the crime and prison stats I'd suspect that Miami Gardens is more common than your situation. Further to my point of unequal enforcement of the law, I was reading somewhere that the bailouts for the losses in 2008 caused by fraud on Wall St was greater than all the burglary and theft losses by regular means for everyone in the entire country that year. Yet not one person went to jail for the actions that caused the meltdown of the entire economy.
gimmethesimplelife
3-12-15, 10:44pm
I suppose you could move to Miami Gardens, where a few years ago the newly created police force went on the offensive big time. So much so that they repeatedly arrested a man for trespassing at his place of employment while he was working... http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two It was only after the man's employer went to the Miami Herald and shared this absurd story that the harassment of the poor guy stopped. Not that he was the only resident being hassled by the cops. Miami Gardens, a small city in Dade County, issued an order of magnitude more tickets and summons for stuff than did Miami.
In all seriousness though I suspect that there are extremes in both directions which points to the problem of unequal enforcement of the law generally. Given the crime and prison stats I'd suspect that Miami Gardens is more common than your situation. Further to my point of unequal enforcement of the law, I was reading somewhere that the bailouts for the losses in 2008 caused by fraud on Wall St was greater than all the burglary and theft losses by regular means for everyone in the entire country that year. Yet not one person went to jail for the actions that caused the meltdown of the entire economy.Agreed. And this to me is a true tragedy, that not one single person went to jail for the actions that caused the economic meltdown. That to me says a lot about America and it's priorities. I really don't know how to process this or forgive America for the fact that no one that helped cause the crisis went to jail for it, not even for a token amount of time. I'm working on letting this go, but it's not easy. Rob
Agreed. And this to me is a true tragedy, that not one single person went to jail for the actions that caused the economic meltdown. That to me says a lot about America and it's priorities. I really don't know how to process this or forgive America for the fact that no one that helped cause the crisis went to jail for it, not even for a token amount of time. I'm working on letting this go, but it's not easy. Rob
Rob, if you haven't, you need to read Matt Taibbi's "The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap". Not that it will make you feel better...
ApatheticNoMore
3-13-15, 2:27am
In all seriousness though I suspect that there are extremes in both directions which points to the problem of unequal enforcement of the law generally.
I'm surprised there was a trial, don't most charges never go to trial (they are plead out or whatever). It may have something to do with the severity of the charges I suppose, or well I have no geographic info on where trials are more likely. But people not going to trial is not only what I've read but what I've heard from those who have sat in courtrooms etc..
That to me says a lot about America and it's priorities. I really don't know how to process this or forgive America for the fact that no one that helped cause the crisis went to jail for it, not even for a token amount of time. I'm working on letting this go, but it's not easy.
instead of blaming America which is an abstraction, why not blame Obama, it was most definitely the policy of his administration. his justice department (not even congress). Yes I've heard all the excuses, Obama had to because he was bought by the bankers (they were big contributors I think), Obama is just a figurehead and has no real power, the deep state actually runs everything (perhaps, perhaps, but not sure how you'd prove that one). But at any rate a more commonplace view says he's more responsible than America (when did we vote on that again?).
the deep state actually runs everything
Who's that? The Illuminati? Our Space Lizard Overlords?
Follow the money. Obviously anyone with the ability to print unlimited amounts of the money that is used all over the world has the ability to control pretty much everything.
Follow the money. Obviously anyone with the ability to print unlimited amounts of the money that is used all over the world has the ability to control pretty much everything.
So the power to debase the currency is the power to control the world?
iris lilies
3-13-15, 3:57pm
This was in my email box today:
https://d19rpgkrjeba2z.cloudfront.net/static/nextdoorv2/images/avatars/avatar-male-34.png (https://nextdoor.com/profile/239957/?is=npe&ct=IwUzkRrk1hd7bWmnZrhm763NzqCqjxvkSjsrIz4ZoNHibF7 jc4T2jdI67-3CLRB-&link_source_user_id=252331&mobile_deeplink_data=action%3Dview_profile%26profi le%3D239957&lc=947)
Neighbors.
The sentencing for Phillip Criner has been changed from this coming Monday to Friday, March 20th at 9 am in Division 5 of the Civil Courts Building located at 10 N Tucker Blvd. If you can make this new date, please let Steve Skinner know at xxxxx
So now it's beginning with Mr. Criner, awesome robber, superlative manipulator of the legal system. Let's see how many more time Mr. Criner will postpone his hearing on sentencing, at least one more time would be my guess. As long as we have kinder and gentler judge who accommodate this, it will continue.
So the power to debase the currency is the power to control the world?
Pretty much. Especially if you can convince a majority of the people that the debasement, at least in moderation, is actually a good thing for them despite the obvious ridiculousness of it.
Pretty much. Especially if you can convince a majority of the people that the debasement, at least in moderation, is actually a good thing for them despite the obvious ridiculousness of it.
Someone should tell Paul Krugman.
Someone should tell Paul Krugman.
I wish someone would. Unfortunately I expect he'd ignore them and point to his nobel prize to explain why they're wrong (as if winning a nobel is any more relevant than my winning a blue ribbon* at elementary school field day is/was meaningful of anything at all), ignoring the fact that they were getting poorer and poorer by holding onto US dollars.
Someone who owned an ounce of gold in 1929 at $20/ounce would have $273 today according to the BIS inflation calculator. Gold today closed at $1158. Gold hasn't been $273 since the early 90's when it was rock bottom after its last run-up. Over the 85 year time frame from 1929 to today anyone holding gold did pretty well for themselves. Dollar holders had to struggle to find an investment that would give them real returns beyond debasement. Today with ZIRP it's even more difficult than ever. That only benefits debtors, not savers.
Again, follow the money. The only winners in this game are the people loaning money into existence. Having that power is critical to being in control. We can see it when we look at who funds our politicians' campaigns. Bill Clinton figured this out long ago when he decided to take Big Wall Street money.
*as people here know I didn't win a blue ribbon at field day, but even if I had it wouldn't especially mean anything...
iris lily
3-13-15, 11:02pm
...*as people here know I didn't win a blue ribbon at field day, but even if I had it wouldn't especially mean anything...
Dang, that's really eating at you, eh? :) Reminds me of when I heard that President Obama won the Nobel Prize. Well, he didn't really "win" it did he? He was awarded it. That was a WTF moment.
Dang, that's really eating at you, eh? :) Reminds me of when I heard that President Obama won the Nobel Prize. Well, he didn't really "win" it did he? He was awarded it. That was a WTF moment.
I read somewhere recently that the Chairman of the Nobel Committee was fired a few weeks ago. I suspect it was for incompetence.
Dang, that's really eating at you, eh? :)
It's funny, I didn't really care at the time and I still don't really care about my elementary school athletic prowess, but I do care that I don't have my shitty yellow and green ribbons to show people that at least I wasn't last. (mom wasn't sentimental about keeping stuff like that)
Next up, bitter angry jp1 shouting at the kids "get off my lawn, ya damn kids!" Oh wait, we live in an apartment building. We don't even have a lawn. ****, I really AM a total failure. No blue ribbons. No lawn. Geez. I'm such a loser. Now that I think about it it's probably my fault the economy went off a cliff. If only I hadn't expected a positive return on my money...
iris lilies
3-22-15, 4:49pm
This was in my email box today:
https://d19rpgkrjeba2z.cloudfront.net/static/nextdoorv2/images/avatars/avatar-male-34.png (https://nextdoor.com/profile/239957/?is=npe&ct=IwUzkRrk1hd7bWmnZrhm763NzqCqjxvkSjsrIz4ZoNHibF7 jc4T2jdI67-3CLRB-&link_source_user_id=252331&mobile_deeplink_data=action%3Dview_profile%26profi le%3D239957&lc=947)
Neighbors.
The sentencing for Phillip Criner has been changed from this coming Monday to Friday, March 20th at 9 am in Division 5 of the Civil Courts Building located at 10 N Tucker Blvd. If you can make this new date, please let Steve Skinner know at xxxxx
So now it's beginning with Mr. Criner, awesome robber, superlative manipulator of the legal system. Let's see how many more time Mr. Criner will postpone his hearing on sentencing, at least one more time would be my guess. As long as we have kinder and gentler judge who accommodate this, it will continue.
Here's another positive thing to add to the thread.
This message today from our neighborhood's safety committee guy shows that those who show get to decide the outcome:
Neighbors:
A group of eight of our neighbors made a court appearance today at the sentencing of Phillip Criner. Just a quick recap on Mr. Criner: He observed his victim taking money out of an ATM machine inside the Family Dollar across Jefferson, the victim rode his bike through our neighborhood with Mr. Criner following him. At some point, Mr. Criner knocked the victim off his bike, choked him, and stole $480 from him as well as his cell phone.
The Circuit Attorney’s office reported to our group that they were certain that Mr. Criner was going to get probation — however, since our neighborhood showed up, he was sentenced to five years in prison, and will definitely serve at least four years.
This speaks to the power of getting involved and working with our police department and circuit attorney’s office. Thank you to our neighbors who attended the court sentencing today. We are all safer due to your efforts and we’ve sent a strong message to others who are considering committing a crime in our neighborhood.
gimmethesimplelife
3-22-15, 10:02pm
Here's another positive thing to add to the thread.
This message today from our neighborhood's safety committee guy shows that those who show get to decide the outcome:
Neighbors:
A group of eight of our neighbors made a court appearance today at the sentencing of Phillip Criner. Just a quick recap on Mr. Criner: He observed his victim taking money out of an ATM machine inside the Family Dollar across Jefferson, the victim rode his bike through our neighborhood with Mr. Criner following him. At some point, Mr. Criner knocked the victim off his bike, choked him, and stole $480 from him as well as his cell phone.
The Circuit Attorney’s office reported to our group that they were certain that Mr. Criner was going to get probation — however, since our neighborhood showed up, he was sentenced to five years in prison, and will definitely serve at least four years.
This speaks to the power of getting involved and working with our police department and circuit attorney’s office. Thank you to our neighbors who attended the court sentencing today. We are all safer due to your efforts and we’ve sent a strong message to others who are considering committing a crime in our neighborhood.
IL.please don't be stunned here. I think it's wonderful that your neighbors were able to work with the system and get this thug prison time instead of probation. If you have positive relations with the police and your local system works for you, I think that's wonderful. But here's the famous but - but, it doesn't work that way everywhere. Matter of fact I thought of this board today and a few regular posters here - I was walking back home from the Mexican supermarket down the street from me and I stopped at a neighbor's house - I know the couple that lives there and they were working on their front yard. So, I'm standing there chatting when the police pull up. Instinctively the lady of the house pulls out her smartphone and gets it ready to record video just in case. Before I could even think to do so as I was full of fear. Turns out they were stopping for whatever reason (?) and drove off and there was no interaction from the police but I did see the officer driving notice the smartphone trained on him. Who knows what could have/would have happened without that smartphone? I'm embarrassed that I froze and didn't reach for mine.
I was invited into the house afterwards for a couple of shots of Mexican brandy. I'm not much of a drinker these days but I was glad for the shots as that situation was VERY unsettling.
I'm glad though that where you live, there does not seem to be this level of complete and total distrust of the police. Be glad, and I mean that sincerely. Rob
iris lilies
3-23-15, 9:23am
IL.please don't be stunned here. I think it's wonderful that your neighbors were able to work with the system and get this thug prison time instead of probation. If you have positive relations with the police and your local system works for you, I think that's wonderful. But here's the famous but - but, it doesn't work that way everywhere. Matter of fact I thought of this board today and a few regular posters here - I was walking back home from the Mexican supermarket down the street from me and I stopped at a neighbor's house - I know the couple that lives there and they were working on their front yard. So, I'm standing there chatting when the police pull up. Instinctively the lady of the house pulls out her smartphone and gets it ready to record video just in case. Before I could even think to do so as I was full of fear. Turns out they were stopping for whatever reason (?) and drove off and there was no interaction from the police but I did see the officer driving notice the smartphone trained on him. Who knows what could have/would have happened without that smartphone? I'm embarrassed that I froze and didn't reach for mine.
I was invited into the house afterwards for a couple of shots of Mexican brandy. I'm not much of a drinker these days but I was glad for the shots as that situation was VERY unsettling.
I'm glad though that where you live, there does not seem to be this level of complete and total distrust of the police. Be glad, and I mean that sincerely. Rob
After this talk of policemen and refreshments, I am reminded to write a check for the support of our police substation up the street. We like having the cops around here and we keep sodas and waters stocked up in the sub-station. We (the neighborhood) pay rent on a little office space for the cops.
Well, I/L--maybe you could take them some fresh, piping hot PIZZA, piled high with hummmolt sausage & oooooeygooooey mozzzarelllly cheeeese, just to show your appreciation. After all, they put their lives on the line for you, every time they go to work.
flowerseverywhere
3-23-15, 12:07pm
We had our local sheriffs come for a safety check. For free they come to your house and tell you how to improve security. There have been break ins around here
They were professional, gave us a ton of info, and when they were leaving told us how much they enjoyed this part of their job. We talked a little and they said so many people hated them these days. They said their job had become so much more dangerous and people were so disrespectful towards them. When I read the local police blotter and see all the crazy situations they are put in, especially when drugs and alcohol are involved it makes me see how things can spiral out of control. Just the other day a man called 911 on his wife and they both ended up being arrested when they went to arrest the wife and the man hit them with a cast iron frying pan. Crazy stuff. Not making excuses for those few bad police officers, but I have faith the large majority of law enforcers are like the ones who came to our home. Trying to keep us safe, enforce the law and provide for their families.
Always two two sides to every story.
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-15, 3:50pm
We had our local sheriffs come for a safety check. For free they come to your house and tell you how to improve security. There have been break ins around here
They were professional, gave us a ton of info, and when they were leaving told us how much they enjoyed this part of their job. We talked a little and they said so many people hated them these days. They said their job had become so much more dangerous and people were so disrespectful towards them. When I read the local police blotter and see all the crazy situations they are put in, especially when drugs and alcohol are involved it makes me see how things can spiral out of control. Just the other day a man called 911 on his wife and they both ended up being arrested when they went to arrest the wife and the man hit them with a cast iron frying pan. Crazy stuff. Not making excuses for those few bad police officers, but I have faith the large majority of law enforcers are like the ones who came to our home. Trying to keep us safe, enforce the law and provide for their families.
Always two two sides to every story.I have been thinking of your post here for awhile and I have to agree that I don't believe ALL cops are bad. And I'm sure that the good ones are paying a price now for the bad ones and their behavior and that's not right. I'll grant that. My problem here is that the system seems to be set up so that the bad ones are often above the law, and if the good cops are suffering so much for the actions of the bad ones, why are they not agitating to get the bad ones off the force PRONTO? This is a big reason I can't let the fear of the police go - two reasons, actually. Why is the system set up so that the bad ones are often above the law, and why do the good ones not agitate to get rid of the bad ones? Something is missing here - this seems glaringly obvious to me. If things stay the way they currently are, certainly police officers can't expect their job to get any easier or safer, and certainly they can't expect some of the public not seeing them as an enemy.
All that said, I'd never want to be a cop. To see the fear in the public's eyes when I show up on the scene for whatever reason - I couldn't live with that. Rob
flowerseverywhere
3-23-15, 10:29pm
I have been thinking of your post here for awhile and I have to agree that I don't believe ALL cops are bad. And I'm sure that the good ones are paying a price now for the bad ones and their behavior and that's not right. I'll grant that. My problem here is that the system seems to be set up so that the bad ones are often above the law, and if the good cops are suffering so much for the actions of the bad ones, why are they not agitating to get the bad ones off the force PRONTO? This is a big reason I can't let the fear of the police go - two reasons, actually. Why is the system set up so that the bad ones are often above the law, and why do the good ones not agitate to get rid of the bad ones? Something is missing here - this seems glaringly obvious to me. If things stay the way they currently are, certainly police officers can't expect their job to get any easier or safer, and certainly they can't expect some of the public not seeing them as an enemy.
All that said, I'd never want to be a cop. To see the fear in the public's eyes when I show up on the scene for whatever reason - I couldn't live with that. Rob
Exactly why you should be a cop. walk the walk. Deal with the lawbreakers with compassion and non violence. Keep your cool when things get ugly because you will be dealing with the mentally ill, drug and alcohol users, and people with attitude against the establishment. Stand up for what is right and go to work everyday not knowing if you will come home at night while always taking the high road and giving every criminal, even those with multiple violent episodes the benefit of the doubt. No nobler way to spend your time. Recruit a bunch of your neighborhood buddies and start a movement. A revolution from within to make the world a better place. Someone has to do it and it might as well be you. Be the change you want to see. Think of how wonderful your neighborhood could be. Free of crime, free of violence, law abiding citizens existing in harmony with the establishment.
goldensmom
3-24-15, 6:58am
I have been thinking of your post here for awhile and I have to agree that I don't believe ALL cops are bad. Rob
Here’s a story for you. A policeman was arresting a felon. The policeman put handcuffs on the felon. The felon said the handcuffs were too tight and hurt so the policeman loosened the handcuffs. The felon got loose, grabbed the policeman’s firearm and shot the policeman. Wish you could meet my nephew, one of the good policeman. When my husband goes to work in the morning, I expect to see him when he comes home at night. When I say goodbye to my nephew, after every visit, I never know if I will see him again.
goldensmom
3-24-15, 6:59am
Exactly why you should be a cop. walk the walk. Deal with the lawbreakers with compassion and non violence. Keep your cool when things get ugly because you will be dealing with the mentally ill, drug and alcohol users, and people with attitude against the establishment. Stand up for what is right and go to work everyday not knowing if you will come home at night while always taking the high road and giving every criminal, even those with multiple violent episodes the benefit of the doubt. No nobler way to spend your time. Recruit a bunch of your neighborhood buddies and start a movement. A revolution from within to make the world a better place. Someone has to do it and it might as well be you. Be the change you want to see. Think of how wonderful your neighborhood could be. Free of crime, free of violence, law abiding citizens existing in harmony with the establishment.
+1....+1....+1.....+1
More teenagers out having fun, http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Arrest-Questioned-Killing-Dad-Stuhlman-Walking-Dog-Overbrook-296849631.html#
i wonder if they look like The son Obama would have had.
Exactly why you should be a cop. walk the walk. Deal with the lawbreakers with compassion and non violence. Keep your cool when things get ugly because you will be dealing with the mentally ill, drug and alcohol users, and people with attitude against the establishment. Stand up for what is right and go to work everyday not knowing if you will come home at night while always taking the high road and giving every criminal, even those with multiple violent episodes the benefit of the doubt. No nobler way to spend your time. Recruit a bunch of your neighborhood buddies and start a movement. A revolution from within to make the world a better place. Someone has to do it and it might as well be you. Be the change you want to see. Think of how wonderful your neighborhood could be. Free of crime, free of violence, law abiding citizens existing in harmony with the establishment.
Agreed. +1
ApatheticNoMore
3-24-15, 11:41am
But a cop's perspective is not anymore "objective" than anyone's else's. No they are not speculating from afar, they actually have real experience. But of course there are biases in having a particular job etc.. But beyond that if a cops job actually is that traumatic (I don't think it always is - much of what cops do is mundane - but let's say a cop has actually seen a great deal of horrors as is being speculated and as is probably true for some), they probably are looking at the world through PTSD at a certain point etc..
Keep your cool when things get ugly because you will be dealing with the mentally ill, drug and alcohol users, and people with attitude against the establishment.
of course the same thing could be accomplished by being a social worker, if you chose to deal with the really down and out (surely it's as noble a way to spend your time? No nobler? And they could get pretty traumatized as well.). Of course I don't really expect anyone to train for an entirely new career because of some political position, anymore than I'd expect everyone concerned about climate change to become a climate scientist (although I've seen it happen with those who already had science backgrounds) or anyone concerned about measles outbreaks to become an M.D and get into public health.
flowerseverywhere
3-24-15, 6:46pm
But a cop's perspective is not anymore "objective" than anyone's else's. No they are not speculating from afar, they actually have real experience. But of course there are biases in having a particular job etc.. But beyond that if a cops job actually is that traumatic (I don't think it always is - much of what cops do is mundane - but let's say a cop has actually seen a great deal of horrors as is being speculated and as is probably true for some), they probably are looking at the world through PTSD at a certain point etc..
of course the same thing could be accomplished by being a social worker, if you chose to deal with the really down and out (surely it's as noble a way to spend your time? No nobler? And they could get pretty traumatized as well.). Of course I don't really expect anyone to train for an entirely new career because of some political position, anymore than I'd expect everyone concerned about climate change to become a climate scientist (although I've seen it happen with those who already had science backgrounds) or anyone concerned about measles outbreaks to become an M.D and get into public health.
So who will do the job? Obviously when a cop shows up and people whip out cell phones ready to video any interaction hoping to catch wrongdoing relations are bound to be strained. How can this hostility be overcome besides neighborhood people getting involved in policing themselves? Surely no one is going to wave a magic wand and everything is OK. If anything, police will become slower to respond and less likely to intervene if everyone is filming waiting for someone to do something wrong so they can get it all on video and have a lawsuit. It seems to me of one of their own shows up who understands the culture and struggles of the people there would be way less hostility and more cooperation on both sides. But you need people from the hood to sign up. Can you think of a better way to change things?
My problem here is that the system seems to be set up so that the bad ones are often above the law
I wish there were more negative consequences for people who make false accusations. All the damage caused in Ferguson is likely the fault of the little weasel sidekick making up stories after nothing more than a routine case of a thug resisting arrest.
Even when people get outed, it's just "oops". Here you go Rob, the latest high profile case of racial profiling abuse on video:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-actress-taraji-p-henson-son-racial-profile-20150327-story.html
iris lilies
3-28-15, 6:09pm
I wish there were more negative consequences for people who make false accusations. All the damage caused in Ferguson is likely the fault of the little weasel sidekick making up stories after nothing more than a routine case of a thug resisting arrest.
Even when people get outed, it's just "oops". Here you go Rob, the latest high profile case of racial profiling abuse on video:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-actress-taraji-p-henson-son-racial-profile-20150327-story.html
Mike Brown's sidekick was already in trouble with the law for lying to cops when he and his buddy Mike were confronted on Canfield Drive in Ferguson by Officer Wilson.
i was was surprised and gratified to see Tara P Henson's apology. She had a rather large pile of Xhit to eat and I am glad she did. I have a very positive view of her, silly I suppose, from her role in Hustle and Flow.
Kids like her son want to be heroes. The current "hero" role in Liberal Land is Uber Victum.
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-15, 6:28pm
I wish there were more negative consequences for people who make false accusations. All the damage caused in Ferguson is likely the fault of the little weasel sidekick making up stories after nothing more than a routine case of a thug resisting arrest.
Even when people get outed, it's just "oops". Here you go Rob, the latest high profile case of racial profiling abuse on video:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-actress-taraji-p-henson-son-racial-profile-20150327-story.htmlThere's just one problem with your post - and also mine, too, I'm capable of being that honest, surprise (!!!) - There are cases in which the police are right to shoot and kill and I have never once said that was wrong per se - the problem is that because some police have crossed the line (cases in point a female officer recently being arrested and charged for assaulting a motorist - and the elderly gentleman from India who was assaulted by a cop due to not being able to answer police questions in English (the officer involved threw this man down to the ground ending out with this man being paralyzed on one side, and the officer has been arrested and charged Thank God).....for every link you can give to support your point I can find a link where the police have crossed the line and terror of the police in general would not be an overreaction.
All that stated, I rather suspect the real truth of the matter lies in the middle of your support of the police and my terror of them and all they stand for. I stated this recently when I responded to one of Iris L's posts. I'm thinking the truth of the average everyday cop lies in between your seemingly total support and my abject terror of them. Translation, probably the average cop is just doing a thankless job to pull in a check and benefits and a pension and probably they at least start the job with some ideals intact. Probably. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line in lower income areas, the police have tended to over react and have crossed the line enough to cause terror. And probably there have been enough incidents like the one in Boston with the cop shot in his face (let me state right now I am 100% against this shooting of this cop!!!) that the police are going to tend to be paranoid and on guard in dicier areas. I don't see how this situation can be bridged - I really can't see this happening the way America is set up now so I guess this is the new normal we are all going to have to accept. I don't like it but as an adult, it is my responsibility to cold bloodedly see things for what they are - the only problem with that statement, however, is that the perception of an issue like this is going to tend to fall along social class lines. For the most part, anyway, I'm sure there are some exceptions to this.
This whole issue is just so complex and so problematic - I wish we could as a nation just human up and admit the way this country is set up now really doesn't work well for many people. That would be a healthy start towards fixing some of these problems. I don't see America as a whole ever admitting this however.....so this is just going to go on and on and on. All I can say is don't walk outdoors at night alone and always have a smartphone on you charged at least 50% so as to capture video - it is the video that will win lawsuits and win public sympathy. Sad advice but then this is what America is now.....why deny it? What's in it for you to deny this? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-15, 6:41pm
Mike Brown's sidekick was already in trouble with the law for lying to cops when he and his buddy Mike were confronted on Canfield Drive in Ferguson by Officer Wilson.
i was was surprised and gratified to see Tara P Henson's apology. She had a rather large pile of Xhit to eat and I am glad she did. I have a very positive view of her, silly I suppose, from her role in Hustle and Flow.
Kids like her son want to be heroes. The current "hero" role in Liberal Land is Uber Victum.I'm not going to deny that we have learned things about people involved in the Ferguson fiasco that are less than savory. Before I go on, I just want to be clear that I get this.
That having been said, how does one explain away the case of the elderly gentleman from India, who in Alabama was thrown down and ended out partially paralyzed on one side due to not being able to respond to the officer's questions in English? (Thankfully this POS cop has been arrested and charged.) Point here is that not all cops are worthy of trust, not all cops are in it for the right reasons, and it is not going overboard to fear the police to some degree. I still stand by my belief that there need to be multi million dollar settlements due to how the police treated protesters in Ferguson, especially for how they treated media representatives. But I'll also grant that Michael Brown was no angel and was a thug. Unfortunately, the police force went overboard with outsiders such as the media and now they need to be held accountable via multi million dollar settlements.
Another recent case involves a female officer who apparently shot at a motorist and has thankfully been arrested and charged. Point being, IL, it's great that where you are you enjoy decent relations with the police - this does not however mean this is the same everywhere else in this country. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-15, 6:46pm
I wish there were more negative consequences for people who make false accusations. All the damage caused in Ferguson is likely the fault of the little weasel sidekick making up stories after nothing more than a routine case of a thug resisting arrest.
Even when people get outed, it's just "oops". Here you go Rob, the latest high profile case of racial profiling abuse on video:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-actress-taraji-p-henson-son-racial-profile-20150327-story.htmlI wish there were more consequences for police who step over the line - such as instant pension loss. If this idea were truly ever implemented, I bet that right there alone would reduce instances of police brutality. There would be a survival based reason to not pull the trigger unless it was absolutely warranted - this is what is missing now in my mind. There really does need to be a cold blooded financial incentive to reduce the urge of some police officers to be trigger happy - I can't think of a better way than instant pension loss. If this seems like too much, how about instantly reducing the pension by about five years of accumulation? That way there would still be a cold blooded financial incentive to not pull the trigger unless it could honestly be justified, and yet for some officers they would still walk away with some money. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-15, 6:54pm
Something else I wanted to add to this discussion - my future husband feels the same way about the police and so does most of the rest of his family. They admit the police are not as crooked here as they are in Mexico - here they don't seek bribes is how they put it, but they go too far and are not afraid to kill for no real reason. My soon to be mother in law says she'd trust a cop in Mexico more than in the United States. Her logic is that in Mexico she could buy her way out of an issue, but here she could be killed and very little would be done about it given the fact that she is Hispanic. I don't particularly agree with this last, but given that she lives in Arizona, I'd agree that that would be true locally. Rob
Yossarian
3-28-15, 11:29pm
my future husband feels the same way
You can find people who believe in bigfoot, astrology, satan and Ted Cruz for President. Whatever.
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-15, 1:23am
You can find people who believe in bigfoot, astrology, satan and Ted Cruz for President. Whatever.I see your point and I'm not going to disagree entirely, but, but, but (here comes the famous BUT) - the only problem with this statement is that the majority of my neighborhood in Central Phoenix feels this way, an area spanning several miles. This line of thinking in regards to the police is not isolated as those who believe in Bigfoot might be. And I happen to believe in the basics of Astrology - shouldn't surprise anyone on this board by now that believes in Astrology that I am a Scorpio. Ted Cruz for President is something I just don't have the emotional strength at the moment to even fathom, sorry, and believing in Satan - isn't a belief in Heaven/Hell and good and evil figures in an afterlife central to Christian thinking? Believing in Bigfoot seems to be the only difficult to find example you have given here. Rob
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