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ejchase
3-8-15, 9:53pm
Hi All,

I know a lot of people here work on 15 minutes a day of decluttering, but I always find I need a block of at least 30 minutes to dive into really going through my stuff, like papers, that has piled up. So I sent a big decluttering goal of 40 hours - another thread here - and I've been chipping away at it in larger blocks of time.

But I've also noticed one of the reasons every house I've ever lived in has been a disaster area is because I don't have a habit of taking a little time every day to pick up so that things look what I call "surface clean." And I've decided a method that might work for me is to think of it as a Seinfeld Chain. More info is at this link:

http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-secret

Basically, I'm setting a goal of doing 15 minutes daily of tidying up at home (8 minutes in the morning before I leave for work, 7 minutes when I get home from work) and the same in my office at work, and I want to see how many days in a row I can stick to it. I've also added to the routine 10 minutes of meditation and prayer and at least 30 minutes of creative writing when I first wake up, and I'm establishing some cue and reward cycles for each habit I'm working on as recommended by Charles Duhigg. More info is at this link:

http://duhigg-site.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/A-guide-to-changing-habits.pdf

I may be being overly ambitious to try to work on so many habits at once, but I'm just going to try it, then see what's working and what's not. I will probably have to do a lot of tinkering before I figure out a system that works, but I really want to try something. It's really clear to me that the state of my home is one of the biggest sources of stress and insecurity in my life, and I'm really wanting to make dealing with it a priority. I figure even if I can only make it 3 or 4 days in a row at first, that if I keep tinkering and trying to find something that works, I may be able to establish some tidying routines that really work.

If anyone else here wants to build a Seinfeld chain along with me, I would love that!

kib
3-8-15, 10:01pm
I had one I'd like to update and re-commit to. I've found that having a daily (and every-other-daily) to-do list of little things is extremely helpful; as long as I keep it under about 20 items I can usually manage to give myself a "gold star" every day. Even if nothing else goes right, I know the cats have clean water and my manicure looks acceptable. :~)

My first item on the list is about my Fitbit. Given as a Christmas present, it's not a gadget I'd have chosen but since it's here, I might as well take advantage of it, it is a rather neat little tech toy. It tracks my steps, and I am swearing that I will get in at least 5000 steps a day. This is half the recommended daily average, but notably more than my couch potato mode.

ApatheticNoMore
3-8-15, 11:55pm
The problem with the 30 minutes a day thing is it sounds so easy and sensible right. Only in reality of course I'm mentally blocking off 30 minutes for this and 30 minutes for that until I've mentally allocated 30 minutes chunks for far more time than I have free in a day (which for me is realistically at maximum maybe 3 hours?). How do I figure? Maybe 1/2 hour before work that isn't getting ready for work, about 4 hours from when I get home to when I go to bed - but I need to heat up dinner (it's often something made previously) and I need to eat it - and I know your not supposed to eat fast though sometimes I do, and I need to make the next days salad lunch, and what about dishes, and winding down a bit before sleep).

So yea the 30 minute a day thing would work if you can keep it to a maximum of maybe 3 things you've committed to, not 10, not 5 - and maybe 2 might be a lot more realistic. So choose wisely :) But with 3 "free" hours why not 6 things? Uh do you cook sometimes - well that can be several hours at a pop, do laundry, come home some days virtually unable to function (heck sometimes in pain). I also often come home sometimes with an insane craving for pleasure. I've just pushed my self through 8 hours of workday and at least 1 1/2 hours (roundtrip) of commuting heck. To say I get pleasure out of that, oh very rare indeed, once in a blue moon out of work, but generally it's just pushing myself through drudgery, and who gets pleasure out of commuting? I think the feeling is actually caused by an intense lack of stimulation (workdays are boring beyond belief). Now the temptation if the mood is bad enough is for my thinking to go: "I want to stuff myself with sweets NOW!!! Get a nice little biological stimulation from a sugar rush. But I generally don't, maybe I just lie around until my mood turns, read something not very demanding, take a long hot bath, maybe I find myself some music to listen to. That's why 3 hours of straight "work" after work isn't likely to actually happen consistently - because if you book no down time for such realities, it's planning to fail. Because I quite frankly need more stimulation from life than that dull routine without breaks forever. So I think it can work if you keep to from 1-3 things (3 at maximum).

Chicken lady
3-9-15, 3:41pm
I want to play. I read your links and they look really interesting, but I think mostly I'd like to use it for my basement - keeping track of time measures effort, but not always progress, and the thread about discarding items doesn't always work because I don't really feel like consumables/trash/recycling are items and sometimes I don't actually get rid of the thing, I just move it to where it's actually useful.

but "remove stuff from the basement" would track actual progress.

I have a bunch of other habits I think the cue-behavior-reward model could apply to, but for now I'd like to just start my chain - today, I removed something from the basement.

ejchase
3-10-15, 2:04am
I'm glad others are into it.

I got through my first day successfully and it feels great. I have already decided to take my creative writing off the list for the chain, though, as I keep track of that goal in a separate system. Also, I know I will miss days of writing once my semester gets super-busy, but I'm hoping I can maintain the tidying. I suspect it would really help reduce my stress level if the spaces around me were a little neater!

Float On
3-10-15, 10:06am
The lady my husband rented a room from before we married had a 20 minute morning clean-up time before she left for work every day. She did different things every day but she said 20 minutes was the perfect amount of time if done daily and that way she got to come home to a clean house and could just play or relax instead of "needing to clean". Making a routine a habit can be life changing.

I agree with you that a house can create stress. I want everything to stay perfectly clean. We tend to be "droppers*" and must get out of that habit! (* instead of putting things where they go we drop them here for now)

ApatheticNoMore
3-10-15, 11:15am
The lady my husband rented a room from before we married had a 20 minute morning clean-up time before she left for work every day. She did different things every day but she said 20 minutes was the perfect amount of time if done daily and that way she got to come home to a clean house and could just play or relax instead of "needing to clean". Making a routine a habit can be life changing.

I don't get the can play or relax thing though. Ok so things are clean, but aren't there a 100 other things you are trying to do in life that preclude the "can relax" pretty much, only that you own body and psyche often force relaxation against your will, as you can't' drive yourself anymore, and I curse myself for lack of self-discipline again, which is probably true, I do like to procrastinate yucky things, and they all are. If I was the slightest bit content with things the way they are, then I really wouldn't mind relaxing. I've already blocked off a 30 minute block before work for something. I don't think there is an additional 20 to spare.

Float On
3-10-15, 12:21pm
I don't get the can play or relax thing though.

Yeah, that was her....not me. I did observe that every day after work she came home, changed clothes, grabbed a glass of wine and went to sit on one of the decks overlooking the lake or in winter she went right to the hot tub room (3 walls of glass overlooking the lake as well). She'd do that for 30 minutes and then had a light dinner and worked on a few projects during the evening hours (she did stained glass at home) or went out dancing a couple nights a week with her friends. She was very routine and disciplined, but she was also past the age of having kids at home and her husband had died a few years before.

Chicken lady
3-10-15, 5:14pm
I am quite able to relax when there is stuff to be done. there is always stuff to be done. I think it is part personality and part learned behavior. dh is having to learn to relax instead of just doing the next thing - for health reasons - and he has to look at the relaxing as one of the things to be done. leading our family to coin the expression "this is fun. the fun is mandatory. you don't have to enjoy the fun, but you have to participate in it.

I have two links! - is it a chain now?

ejchase
3-10-15, 6:54pm
I hereby pronounce it a teeny tiny chain, chicken lady! I'm still working on my second link!

jp1
3-10-15, 7:15pm
Personally I'm very,much a 'place for every thing and every thing in it's place' kind of guy. I also tend to,'clean as I go' when cooking so that by the time dinner is served the kitchen is pretty clean except maybe the main pan,the food was cooked in. SO, on the other hand, is a 'any flat surface is a good spot to put this' kind of guy. It took a while after,we,moved,in but I figured out that creating spots for his most commonly randomly set down items that were near where those items usually ended up made picking up after him quick and easy. Ie, mail drawer near the front door, key hook in the kitchen, laundry hamper in the bathroom, not the bedroom closet. Maybe 3-5 minutes per day is spent on that and another 15 on keeping the kitchen tidy. Beyond that I'm more like the lady Float On mentions, I can come home, pour myself a glass of wine or beer and go sit on the deck and look at the ocean and not worry about feeling like I need to be "doing something". After all, I don't live to clean house. I live to do things like enjoy a glass of wine while looking at the sunset. If SO's dirty socks are sitting on the living room floor life will go on. Yes, I'd prefer that they not be, but it won't really make my life better if I take yet more time to deal with them. And since I'm the only member of our household who cares, it was really a matter of me figuring out what mattered to me. In the end it was a combination of finding quick fixes for some things and lowering my standards in other ways. After living with him almost 11 years I've long been at peace with this and no longer obsess about stuff that needs to be done around the house.

ejchase
3-11-15, 9:08am
Even though seeing mess when I walk in the door stresses me out, I have developed the skill of tuning it out too, and I can usually find a way to relax amidst mess.

But I also find that if I take 15 minutes to deal with the most pressing areas of mess, I feel so much more relaxed and better.

Starting these routines is a way for me to show myself that I don't need to be tidying up all the time - which would make me miserable - but that taking care of a little bit every day might result in a generally improved quality of life.

I've now got two links in my chain and am making another adjustment to my routine. I'm realizing 8 minutes of decluttering is too much for our busy mornings around here, so I'm going to do just 5 in the morning and 10 at night.

Float On
3-11-15, 12:43pm
So I tried to see just how much I could get done in 20 minutes this morning before leaving for school/work. It was a lot!

Chicken lady
3-11-15, 3:07pm
3 links!

I also started working on a cue-behavior-reward cycle - I'm trying to create one. The cue is that the microwave is running, the behavior is cleaning up the kitchen, and the reward is getting to consume whatever I just heated up (usually tea) in a cleaner kitchen. So every time I make a cup of tea I get in two minutes of kitchen cleaning. I can almost empty the dishwasher in two minutes. I'll probably get it established about the time it gets too hot for tea.

iris lilies
3-11-15, 9:39pm
3 links!

I also started working on a cue-behavior-reward cycle - I'm trying to create one. The cue is that the microwave is running, the behavior is cleaning up the kitchen, and the reward is getting to consume whatever I just heated up (usually tea) in a cleaner kitchen. So every time I make a cup of tea I get in two minutes of kitchen cleaning. I can almost empty the dishwasher in two minutes. I'll probably get it established about the time it gets too hot for tea.

that is kind of cool. I like rewards, I can get motivated by that kind of thing.

Chicken lady
3-12-15, 8:32am
I did my 4th link this morning. Instead of a calendar I have a piece of scrap paper. I'm making my chain like this "March 9-10-11-12" with little boxes around the dates. I have scrap paper but I don't have a calendar on one page, and I'm supposed to be purging.

The problem with rewards for me is that generally I can't be trusted. I'm like the cat guarding the milk - If I have discretion over the reward, sooner or later I cheat and just have the reward. "Why am I doing this to myself...." So the reward has to be something someone else is in charge of - like dh agreeing to go to the quilt show after yoga if I go to yoga with him - or something that can't be gained without the action - like cleaning up so I have space to do x.

iris lilies
3-12-15, 11:15am
I did my 4th link this morning. Instead of a calendar I have a piece of scrap paper. I'm making my chain like this "March 9-10-11-12" with little boxes around the dates. I have scrap paper but I don't have a calendar on one page, and I'm supposed to be purging.

The problem with rewards for me is that generally I can't be trusted. I'm like the cat guarding the milk - If I have discretion over the reward, sooner or later I cheat and just have the reward. "Why am I doing this to myself...." So the reward has to be something someone else is in charge of - like dh agreeing to go to the quilt show after yoga if I go to yoga with him - or something that can't be gained without the action - like cleaning up so I have space to do x.
haha well, cats. yes, they cannot be trusted. :)

Chicken lady
3-14-15, 10:13pm
Still going.

ejchase, how are you doing?

ejchase
3-15-15, 1:35pm
Oh, I'm afraid I stumbled.

On Thursday, I left work at lunchtime and completely forgot to do my 15 minutes there, and then on Thursday night I had bad insomnia and only got three hours of sleep and I admit I let that throw me off for Friday too.

I'm now sort of thinking about my chain as actually three different chains: a.m. home routine, 15 minutes at office routine, and p.m. home routine. So I got up to 4 links on my a.m. home chain and 3 links each on my office routine and my p.m. home routine.

So I have started over. I now have one link on my office routine chain (Friday) and one on my chain for each of my home routines from yesterday. Just about to get started on the home routines for today now.

Chicken lady
3-15-15, 2:03pm
I think that's good because it's 3 different behaviors. that way if you do miss one behavior it doesn't throw you off the other ones - you still want to keep those chains going.

good for you for starting again. it won't take long to beat your record!

ejchase
3-15-15, 8:14pm
Thanks for the encouragement, chicken lady, and congrats on sticking with yours.

I did my a.m. and p.m. home routines today so am up to 2 links each on those.

Chicken lady
3-16-15, 7:25am
well, I actually broke my chain yesterday. I had a bunch of stuff going on and didn't get it in in the morning as I have been. I thought I'd do it in the evening, but then some other stuff happened, and here I am back at one. got that one in this morning though - so we'll see if I can do a solid week or more this time.

ejchase
3-16-15, 2:16pm
I totally get it, chicken lady. Some days it's just hard to fit it in.

But I think the idea of the chain - just seeing how many links you can build - is great motivation.

Maybe if we get up to 20 or so links at some point, it will just become automatic.

Chicken lady
3-17-15, 9:45am
That would be nice. although - if my chain gets long enough, it will be done! At some point, everything still in the basement will actually belong there.

back at 2.

Chicken lady
3-18-15, 7:35am
keeping on. This morning I felt more productive. I have a paper ream box in my basement I call the "random box". When we moved here, there were lots of "random boxes" - think junk drawer on steroids - because at the end of packing I just swept things off of surfaces into boxes. Over the years the random boxes have emptied as we have looked for things or I have found time to sort them out, but now there is one that increases and decreases just like a junk drawer, except it has both items and papers.

I think I am reaching a tipping point, because as I was working today I kept finding things that led to finding other things - like when you get to the end of a puzzle and instead of 5,000 random pieces you suddenly have holes that let you see the picture and spot where other pieces go. - Oh, here is the box of these toys! I saw some of those in the random box - moves toys from random box, culls some of the toys that were already in the box, puts box away. Makes mental connection from toys to something else, finds other thing, sees something from category A during search process and puts it with other category A things - freeing shelf space... etc.

Chicken lady
3-19-15, 7:41am
4. Are you still working your chains ejchase?

Today is my day to concentrate on areas where there might be trash or recycling because the bins go up tonight. I started with a basket of bath products in the basement. I only have a little wastepaper basket down there, so now I want to hunt around and see if I can fill it and my paperbag for recycling.

Chicken lady
3-23-15, 7:45am
today my chain is over a week long. I feel like this is starting to become a habit. There was one day when all I got out was a handful of papers, but the point is to do it - I did spend quite a bit of time down there just straightening up and organizing unil I found the papers. I was determined not to quit without finding something that could leave the basement.

Is anybody else still doing this? I feel awkward talking to myself, so I probably won't post in here again if no one else wants to use the thread.

ejchase
3-23-15, 10:32am
Hi, Chicken Lady, sorry for the silence! I had to go out of town this weekend to visit a sick relative and though I thought I'd be able to maintain the chains there, I didn't. And today, I've got a cold, so I slept in and probably won't be able to restart the chains until I get to my office.

But I'm determined to start up again. Good for you for sticking with yours - I'm inspired!

nswef
3-23-15, 11:48am
Chicken Lady, Keep talking...you are not talking to yourself but to all of us who are thinking about doing something, but haven't. I love the idea of one box leading to another which means you have spaces that are emptying.

Chicken lady
3-24-15, 7:14am
I didn't mean to nag - I just felt silly posting over and over.

This morning I straightened up a little, but I didn't do my taking something out yet - dh is working late tonight and I have to go into town tomorrow. So I'm going to load the big Goodwill pile into my car this evening for drop off. That should make a pretty nice open space and be encouraging. Some of what is in the pile came down from other parts of the house, but some of it started out in the basement, so it counts.

Float On
3-24-15, 9:31am
Chicken Lady, Keep talking...you are not talking to yourself but to all of us who are thinking about doing something, but haven't. I love the idea of one box leading to another which means you have spaces that are emptying.

Yes. Keep talking and keep going! :)
I went to SC but am back and even though I'm not making a physical or mental chain I am trying to get as much done in 20 minutes every morning while I'm waiting for the boys to finish getting ready.

Chicken lady
3-24-15, 6:21pm
So I put all that stuff into the car, and it made a big empty spot on the floor. The empty space actually makes me feel a little unsettled. However, I'm sure - for better or worse - things will get spread out into it as I continue to work down there. It seems I clear floor space and then lower the height of the stuff, clear floor space, lower height, lather, rinse, repeat.

mschrisgo2
3-24-15, 9:13pm
Ah, Chicken Lady, I know that feeling! I've done the same thing. Eventually, it got better for me.

danna
3-24-15, 9:27pm
ejchase

I have been reading this post.......
-I have done most of my decluttering (expect the garage needs more and the more I lose the more I want gone everywhere else too)
That's a good thing I think!!!

--But, considering I have it mostly all good I was finding I was still feeling the house was always messy. I have spent my life working while still doing kids/crafts/sewing/volunteering
I couldn't think why it was better then. Now I am retired and have lots of time except for family here a lot (mostly a very good thing), volunteering etc. but, the house
didn't feel good!
--Reading this post it made me remember that when I worked I always did things in chunks of time, so last week I have started again with 10 min tidy before bed,
and a routine in the morning of dress, make bed, tidy, personal, coffee on and make breakfast, it is surprising how little time it takes and then there is no reason not to get to other things.

It has given me much more structure to my day.

This week I am adding 30 minutes for crafts/sewing and 30 min. for deeper cleaning.

It is totally surprising how much extra I have done in between these chunks of time without even thinking out it......I am feeling much more organized, less messy (I remembered I don't work well
when things are untidy) and have been generally more productive.

Thanks for keeping the post going Chicken Lady.

Chicken lady
3-26-15, 7:21am
And then yesterday I dropped all that stuff off, but I never went down to the basement to take anything else out.

So now I have a 9 link chain to beat. I'm learning - if I don't do it in the morning I just don't get to it.

8 more days until my daughter starts moving her stuff out.

I am still working on the kitchen habit too - I think it's getting better.

ejchase
3-26-15, 10:15am
Things have been a little crazy at home and work this week, so it's been hard to get back to routines, but I did do my p.m. home routine of 10 minutes tidying up last night, so that's one link on that chain.

Chicken lady, your sticking with it and posting here has really helped me get back to it, so thanks.

Chicken lady
3-26-15, 2:20pm
ejchase, I appreciate your coming up with the idea. It definitely helps to have a place to check in for me.

I got some stuff out of my basement this morning, so we each have one link now - but if you tidy again you'll have two by bedtime!

I vacuumed my empty space, then I created a pretty good sized empty box and stuck it right in the middle of the space to throw more goodwill stuff in.

danna - 30 minutes for crafts! That's the sort of thing I plan to reward myself with if I ever get done with all this mucking out.

ejchase
3-27-15, 9:44am
Aargh, I got a migraine yesterday - only the second one I think I've had in my life. And while I feel better this morning, I'm not 100% so not sure about getting any links today.

But I'm not giving up! This too will pass.

Chicken lady
3-27-15, 9:24pm
I hope you feel better!

ejchase
3-31-15, 2:04am
I finally got back to all three of my chains today - one link on each!

Chicken lady
3-31-15, 10:13am
I'm glad your are keeping at it. even though my chain keep breaking, restarting is keeping me focused and I'm ending up doing a lot of the days in the month. This morning I was in a hurry and only had time to grab a sample bottle of lotion and throw it in my purse. that is a tiny step, but I wouldn't have gone down at all if not for the chain. and the more I look around down there, the more I see that I can do. When I get home from work I'm planning to vacuum and start getting out Easter/Spring decorations, purging as I go. I think maybe I can cut down a whole bin.

19Sandy
10-13-16, 7:57pm
How is this working for everyone?

Chicken lady
10-13-16, 8:49pm
I gave up. There are still things I try to do every day, but I stopped keeping track on the chain.