Pensioners may need a plan B

[cx3]

http://www.jsonline.com/business/new-law-allows-reductions-in-certain-retiree-pensions-b99455953z1-295817401.html

New law makes it legal for some pension plans to reduce pension payments by as much as 60%.
Not trying to scare anyone,but if a pension is part of your retirement planning you may want to have a plan B.

[sweetana3]

Before we all go screaming off into the sunset, read the article. Anyone with a union pension plan has always been in some danger.

ps: Everyone should have a Plan B, can C and D......

[iris lilies]

Before we all go screaming off into the sunset, read the article. Anyone with a union pension plan has always been in some danger.

ps: Everyone should have a Plan B, can C and D......

Please! Stop being so rational! :)

[Packy]

There is a plan that many people follow, who do not have a pension, were self-employed, did not get rich, and underreported their income to FICA. So, they ain't got jack to retire on. So, what they do is--(get your pen & paper to write this down)--what they do is---make sure they follow a special diet---Pizza: an extra-large meat-lovers piled HIGH with ooooey-goooey mozzarella cheeeese, EVERY DAY; lockered beef and pork on the grille EVERY DAY and for Sundy dinner. Also, don't waste your time on that exercise; if you want to look BIG and TOUGH--gain weight! Blubber can make you look BIG a lot easier than doing regular exercise workouts that cause you to look skinny and WEAK. Sit at home and watch TEE VEE, MooooVVEEES--especially TEE-VEEE stadium sports. Okay--drink like an Irishman--no wait--like a SCOTSMAN! Drink, drink, drink. Also--smoke cigarettes, and that other stinky stuff that is absolutely 100% harmless, according to the addicts I've heard. Filling your lungs with smoke around the clock, is the Plan. Okay next--buy a murdercycle---one o' them Hardly-Doitson "Fat Slob" that are all the rage with the geezer faction. If you are "lucky", while you are out riding it around without a helmet, making noise and wasting gas, maybe some idiot who has good insurance will turn in front of you and this will happen: You will die, and then there will be a biker funeral with a roast pig and lots of beer and a biker procession to the cemetery. The geezer giving the eulogy will invariably say: "At least He died doing what he loved". Then, the 'surance company for the motorist that hit you will settle for a nice sum to tide your widow over until she, too, dies prematurely, due to complications from obesity. Maybe you will survive, but be crippled for life. Well, same deal. See? What other risk factors have I covered? Oh yes--keep an arsenal of guns, to protect your Second Amendment Rights. Keep tons of Ammunition, and keep them guns loaded and ready, at all times. You need to have your "problem solver" at your disposal, to resolve domestic problems, or if a cop stops you for no damn good reason, or the neighbors are getting on your nerves with loud music and this kind of thing. Stay Drunk, and don't give up your gun without a fight. Make Charlton Heston proud of you. Plus, if you ever get despondent and intoxicated, you've got a gun already handy to make your exit. So, there ARE alternatives to having a nice, big, fat, generous Pension to look forward to. Hope that helps you some. Thank Mee.

[ToomuchStuff]

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?11594-Union-retirees-fear-dramatic-pension-cuts-because-of-a-new-federal-law

Deja vu

[ApatheticNoMore]

Before we all go screaming off into the sunset, read the article. Anyone with a union pension plan has always been in some danger.

ps: Everyone should have a Plan B, can C and D......

at a certain point it's pretty much impossible to have all these plans A, B, C, D for everything under the sun (for what retirement? unemployment? stock market collapse chopping your assets in half? laws being changed as in this case? cuts in social security and medicare? outsourcing of your field so you should have had a plan B career ready to go? age discrimination in employment? climate change .... :laff: - ok threw that one in tongue and cheek because unlike laws about pensions it could at best be mitigated and is at this point out of anyone's control) . It expects people to be more than human to expect people to have a plan B for every possible contingency, especially those caused by laws constantly changing from under them.

And yes I think of what could go wrong a lot, and I catastrophize (er this probably had evolutionary advantages to the tribe to have people like this :) ).. And yes it is indeed very bad for people to lose their pensions. If the pensions were uncertain I wonder if people planned on them being so? To the degree they plan to lose 1/2 their 401k if it's in stocks? (why it's never all in stocks for me) And of course, I've never had a pension to begin with. I hope their plan B wasn't 401ks as they seem to have over fee-ed everyone and most employees weren't great at investing either. If it was moving somewhere more affordable (south America?) it could work, if it was just living off Social Security in the u.s., people do it, but it's often poverty.

[sweetana3]

Learn how to live on less and be as self reliant as possible. Diversify into various categories (old adage of not putting all eggs in one basket). Save early to have some flexibility. Do not depend on any one or two sources.

Far more people I know have planned zip for retirement. Zip, nada, nothing, zero. This is usually confirmed with newspaper articles about the number of people living paycheck to paycheck no matter the amount of the paycheck. My husband worked for a huge corporation and so many had all their assets (medical insurance, pension, 401K, etc.) 100% wrapped up in this one company. You would think they would learn from Enron. When the patents started to expire (a totally known situation), the value of the company plummeted.

[cx3]

I think many are not seeing the forest because there are too many trees in the way.
To me, the most interesting part of this new law is the part where everyone over 80 or disabled, is exempt from the pension cuts. Why is this? I speculate that age 80 will be the new age 65 when it comes to defining the proper retirement age, and therefore, the proper age to receive SS benefits.
ToomuchStuff, my apologies, I didn't realize a thread had already been started on this.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I speculate that age 80 will be the new age 65 when it comes to defining the proper retirement age, and therefore, the proper age to receive SS benefits.

of course it's hard to get hired after 50 (and sometimes younger than that), not to mention after 60. So 20 years at least where you can't work (maybe as a Walmart greeter if your one of the lucky ones who gets hired by Walmart?) and you can't get retirement benefits.

The full age of SS collection is already past 65 of course (67 I think). But I think most people collect at 62 (which shows you how great the economic options are for people at 62, because it's not great financially to do so and people still do it).

Sometimes my plan B is just to live in the now and not think about horrible the future will be. Yes horrible is coming regardless in one form or other ... our parents don't have enough money to make it through their retirements and so how will we possibly, we don't have enough money to bail them but might end up having to anyway, the wheels are starting to come off the global economy now, the wheels are coming off the planet ... etc. One can save but enough for 20-25 years of neither being able to collect SS or work, and then old age as well?

[Gardenarian]

My pension seems quite secure, as far as I can tell.
The red tape and bureacracy you have to go through are insane (I get mail nearly every day from my pension plan.) They could slip something by me pretty easily.

Unfortunately, my pension has no health benefits, but our health insurance costs have decreased by 2/3 in the past 2 years. Touch wood.

I do have a plan B. (And I have a post-retirement job as well.)

[Teacher Terry]

Our plans are also very healthy & are from public employers. I am grateful for that. We also both work p.t. consulting. I feel really sorry for the people that are getting screwed.

[flowerseverywhere]

This should be everyone's plan b

live below your means
if you don't have enough money figure out how to make more and spend less
Figure out how to invest money. Pay low fees, diversify, never invest in something you don't understand, don't put very much into any one investment. Always remember someone who is trying to sell you something may be far more interested in their profit than yours. This is not rocket science. News article after news article has this exact info.

Retirement is a multi legged stool. The more legs you have, the more stable the stool. Relying on social security alone is a very unstable one legged stool. You can make it more secure with a pension or other source of income. Add legs by having no debt. A paid for house well maintained with a newish roof, good furnace, good appliances for example could add more stability. Another leg can be 401 or IRA plans. Money in cd's, bank accounts or other savings vehicles add more stability. Every skill you have adds more stability like Cooking at home every day, mending clothes, fixing the lawnmower, maintaining your car all add value. Knowing how to cheaply entertain yourself through reading library books, gardening, walking, riding bikes, playing cards etc. saves a ton of money.

the only one you can depend on is yourself. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I wonder if it's enough, what one imagines is enough, working at a middle class job and saving. Noone my age but government workers has pensions, so no one talks nor thinks about them in any in person social circle I'm part of at or outside of work.

It seems to me a lot of the people around me really have other plans than just working at a middle class job and saving (working at a middle class job and saving is what I do). Ok they may work a middle class job, I don't actually socialize with the super rich - or with all that many doctors even, but they manage rental properties on the side etc. (*rental* I don't mean just own a home). I doubt I have the energy or will to do that in addition to working full time anyway (this is very different than a side income you have some passion for - some of them actively dislike the rental property ownership. Yes even a hobby type of side income would take energy but less than it takes to do more stuff you don't enjoy - beyond your job that is). If my health permitted I would resign to working if I thought I could work till 70 or so, but I don't think this society is really set up to have any use for older workers.

I have no idea how we're supposed to come up with endless plan Bs for ourselves. Maybe I'm just not that smart :~). (one of my plan Bs - a long shot - is to encourage activism - so that if they dare raise retirement age to 80 or something, holy heck will be raised.).

[Teacher Terry]

Besides consulting I teach an online uni class 2x's/year that pays very well. I figure as long as I have my mind I can keep doing this forever. We also use the multi-leg stool. In addition, we could easily shave a ton of expenses if we needed too. Right now we are traveling as much as possible because you just don't know what is around the corner. I also know that the older you get the less you want to travel so need to do it while you can.

[Rachel]

I identify with what ApatheticNoMore is saying. Regardless of how self sufficient you are -- and there is a limit to how self sufficient a person can be, given their situation -- we all are counting on certain things working at least to some extent.

[Teacher Terry]

Absolutely!