View Full Version : racial profiling...nevermind
flowerseverywhere
3-30-15, 7:48pm
I thought this was a very interesting story how accusations can be made without all the facts in view of the countless threads on how awful the police are per some posters. This officer's career could have been ruined or protests and riots could have started.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/28/entertainment/taraji-henson-apologizes/
in other words don't believe everything you read or hear.
i hope her foot was clean.
gimmethesimplelife
3-30-15, 8:16pm
I thought this was a very interesting story how accusations can be made without all the facts in view of the countless threads on how awful the police are per some posters. This officer's career could have been ruined or protests and riots could have started.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/28/entertainment/taraji-henson-apologizes/
in other words don't believe everything you read or hear.I won't deny that there are cases such as this where people over react and then things settle down and new facts are brought to the table. I will give you this, Flowerseverywhere.
That having been said, there are also cases in which the police go too far.....do I need to play a broken record about the elderly man from India who was assaulted by an officer in Alabama for not being able to answer the officer's questions? Paralyzed on one side now and the officer involved - something for which I am very grateful - has been arrested and charged and of course the elderly man is seeking payday in court which he morally and ethically should.
I will give you that not every instance involves police misbehavior, I get that. My issue here is that unfortunately, there are instances such as the above in Alabama and I'm not capable of denying that. No system or country will ever get that from me, and that's something I cherish about myself. I do agree in this case though, it was not wise of the young man to have marijuana in his car or Ritalin without the prescription bottle. That having been said, are you aware that in the state of Arkansas it is a felony now to be caught with one Oxycodone pill without the prescription bottle? If you put one in your pocket, something I have done with blood pressure pills when I have been in a hurry, forget ever being employed again in the United States if you are caught. Even if you can later produce the prescription bottle. I'm waiting for a multi million dollar settlement on this one! I hope it goes to someone deserving, too. Point being, sometimes the law goes insanely far and sometimes the police cross the line, too. It sure appears if police crossing the line are more immune from consequences overall - though I do believe this is starting to change, thanks to social media and community activism and a drama hungry ratings seeking media. On the other hand, for everyday working people.....I'm sure you can see my point without my making it yet again.
And I do believe this time in this story, the police did not go too far. Not every time will they stop at the line and I have indeed seen racial profiling take place right before my eyes. Rob
That having been said, there are also cases in which the police go too far.....do I need to play a broken record .....Such as the "Hands up, don't shoot", Ferguson Police Officer murdered Michael Brown broken record?
It sure appears if police crossing the line are more immune from consequences overall - though I do believe this is starting to change, thanks to social media and community activism and a drama hungry ratings seeking media. Those are the very elements that destroyed Ferguson. I think a little discernment among the consumers of social media, community activism and ratings seeking media would go a long way in these cases, although that may be too much to ask.
gimmethesimplelife
3-30-15, 9:27pm
Such as the "Hands up, don't shoot", Ferguson Police Officer murdered Michael Brown broken record?
Those are the very elements that destroyed Ferguson. I think a little discernment among the consumers of social media, community activism and ratings seeking media would go a long way in these cases, although that may be too much to ask.No, I'd play the broken record regarding the elderly man from India who was brutally assaulted by a police officer since he could not answer the officer's questions as he did not speak English. This brutal attack resulted in this man being paralyzed on one side and the officer involved was arrested and charged. Point being, perhaps the Hands Up Don't Shoot doesn't always apply.....Maybe it should be changed to Hands Up Don't Assault in the state of Alabama. Please google this incident for yourself and read of what American cops are capable of. Pretty terrifying stuff. I don't come equipped with the ability to gloss over such realities. I'm also grateful I'm not, and if I did have kids I'd want to pass this on to them.
I will agree to disagree with you on your second paragraph. I'm grateful for social media, community activism, and the drama hungry ratings seeking media as these players give an average person some leverage towards leveling the playing field when the police cross the line, such as in the Alabama example above. These players also serve to intimidate municipalities into large settlements when the police brutally, clearly, and far beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt use their position to break the law. I'm grateful beyond words for the leverage against the police these three players can and do provide the average person. Without these players, honestly, how could the average person strike back against victimization in a way that hurts financially and in a way that provides maximum long term impact? I'd agree that smartphone video can provide leverage, too, but the average person really does need as much legal ammo as possible against the police in instances such as the one I keep referring to in Alabama.
Speaking of which, something good came out of what happened in Alabama. The governor of Alabama publicly issued a statement apologizing for this officer's brutal and illegal assault upon this Indian citizen - issued to the Prime Minister of India. I know it's a only a formality but I'm impressed the governor conceded this much. It gives me some hope for the future. Rob
PS I came back to add that there are multi million dollar civil suits on the table as we speak against how the police treated outsiders such as the media during the protests in Ferguson. I'm grateful the players named above exist so as to wring out maximum dollars out of the situation - a situation the police created themselves via their storm trooper behavior during parts of the protest drama. Maybe other towns and cities will learn to rein in their police to where they are following the law? If for no other reason, to prevent huge paydays for victims willing to stand up for their rights against the system.
Rob, I'm curious- what's the most responsible job or position you've ever had? By that I mean what's the largest number of people you've been responsible for managing and toward what important objective were they organized? And for how long did you hold that position?
That having been said, are you aware that in the state of Arkansas it is a felony now to be caught with one Oxycodone pill without the prescription bottle?
So you do realize that oxycodone is essentially pharmaceutical heroin, right? It is legal so long as you have a prescription. It is also one of the most heavily trafficked drugs on the black market. I'm just curious at what point the police should look the other way. A more interesting question is at what point a patient with a legal Rx actually needs to be responsible for their own actions by taking their oxy in the bottle if they want to carry it around town. Heavy cross to bear, I know.
I'm waiting for a multi million dollar settlement on this one! I hope it goes to someone deserving, too.
I still haven't figured out how making the citizens of a municipality (or their insurance company) pay exorbitant legal awards is going to lead to reform. It hasn't to date, but maybe next time will be different. Want to really make a difference? Put that multi-million dollar sum into cleaning up urban decay, building parks, creating a cops and kids softball league... If we were truly radical we could even spend some of it on schools! But that wouldn't sell many papers, would it?
Rob, I'm curious- what's the most responsible job or position you've ever had?
Note this tidbit from another of Rob's discussions:
And I happen to believe in the basics of Astrology - shouldn't surprise anyone on this board by now that believes in Astrology that I am a Scorpio.
Rob claims that he believes in astrology. Rob believes the motions of the stars and planets somehow magically influence the lives and actions and outlooks of people here on earth. Pure bunkum pseudoscience.
gimmethesimplelife
3-31-15, 2:50pm
Rob, I'm curious- what's the most responsible job or position you've ever had? By that I mean what's the largest number of people you've been responsible for managing and toward what important objective were they organized? And for how long did you hold that position?I will answer your question but first I just want to state that I don't see a connection between your question and what I have posted above. But anyway -
I once worked a season - five months - at the Grand Canyon as an Assistant Dining Room Manager - one of the worst jobs I've ever had. The hours were even worse than as a server, the pay was less than serving, and on this job I realized that I'd ever want to be in management unless it was running my own business. I consider that since I love and respect myself - this is how I see it, no one has to agree with me here - I'll have to pass on the nightmare of being management - even lower management - in turbo charged captitalism. This job was very difficult for me as I could see things from the server's perspective and how management issued directives made servers lives more difficult and often, for no clear reason. The dining room manager was fired mid season for failing a random drug test and I was offered the dining room manager job - and I had the smarts to pass on it. The Food and Beverage Director was a clueless political (expletive) and I could see that if I wanted to work out the season, I'd have to pass on the promotion. So I ended out doing that job anyway for two months as the position was not filled and then the Food and Beverage Director quit and things just went downhill from there. At one point the other Assistant quit and I was alone as management in Food and Beverage along with the GM of the property. It was a disaster as I could do most of what was being expected of me but I am not cut out to work 80 plus hours a week under such conditions. Finally I threatened to quit and was given two days off after that - and lo and behold, a new Assistant Manager and a new Dining Room Manager appeared when I returned. I made it clear that I was unavailable those two days regardless of what drama took place and that my cell phone would be off to all and that those two days would be about me, myself and I alone. I also left the property and took a shuttle to the other side of the Canyon and spent time in a room at the South Rim. Before I left for the shuttle, I also packed up everything in my room for a quick departure if need be as my faith in the situation was less than zero. I did end out finishing the season, and I also found myself respected by most of the wait staff - there were a few policies I refused point blank to implement when I was working the 80 hour weeks and I basically said I could be packed up to leave in less than an hour when I was pressed. I was very much liked by the wait staff for this and a few of them hounded me to come back for the same job the next year - I did but only as a server. Which for me was the right choice. Funny thing, though, during the time I refused to implement policies from above - sales went up 12% during that seven week period, with no higher traffic count or cover count. My take is that if you treat people like they are human, mmmmm.....you might get better results once in awhile?
Does this rambling answer your question? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-31-15, 2:58pm
So you do realize that oxycodone is essentially pharmaceutical heroin, right? It is legal so long as you have a prescription. It is also one of the most heavily trafficked drugs on the black market. I'm just curious at what point the police should look the other way. A more interesting question is at what point a patient with a legal Rx actually needs to be responsible for their own actions by taking their oxy in the bottle if they want to carry it around town. Heavy cross to bear, I know.
I still haven't figured out how making the citizens of a municipality (or their insurance company) pay exorbitant legal awards is going to lead to reform. It hasn't to date, but maybe next time will be different. Want to really make a difference? Put that multi-million dollar sum into cleaning up urban decay, building parks, creating a cops and kids softball league... If we were truly radical we could even spend some of it on schools! But that wouldn't sell many papers, would it?After my surgery last year when I was just starting to get out and hobble around, I often carried oxycodone pills on my person without the bottle as I was so out of it I was afraid if I carried the bottle in my messenger bag I might leave the bag somewhere and walk away from it - I was that out of it and had to get some errands and some things done regardless. So I can see situations arising where others might do the same and not have the prescription bottle with them. I was not caught and no issues took place but I can see where they could for some hapless victim of the overzealous revenue hungry "justice system". This is why I state that I am waiting for the multi million dollar payoff for the first person with the courage to stand up against the system when this happens to them. I just hope it goes to someone so disgusted that they flee America with their payoff. Who knows, to my knowledge such a case has not come to court yet.
About how large settlements lead to reform - something I have learned about Americans with money and power - the only way to effect change with such people is terror of financial loss. I find this very sad but yet very true. Also large settlements are a way to hold America and what it truly is for some accountable to its victims. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-31-15, 3:01pm
Note this tidbit from another of Rob's discussions:
Rob claims that he believes in astrology. Rob believes the motions of the stars and planets somehow magically influence the lives and actions and outlooks of people here on earth. Pure bunkum pseudoscience.Bae, I am far from the only person who believes in astrology, and as I said, I only believe in the basics of it - I think it's entirely possible to take the concept too far. But I have read the basic traits of being a Scorpio and they fit me like a glove. I don't really hold much faith in the daily horoscope though, I just read that for entertainment. Rob
Bae, I am far from the only person who believes in astrology,...
So what?
Fact is, it's bunk. Your self-professed belief in it demonstrates a certain inability to observe reality and form reliable judgments.
gimmethesimplelife
3-31-15, 3:08pm
So what?
Fact is, it's bunk. Your self-professed belief in it demonstrates a certain inability to observe reality and form reliable judgments.Ok, Bae, I think this is going a little too far. I'm going to agree to disagree with you and will not respond to any posts of this nature going forward. Rob
So what?
Fact is, it's bunk. Your self-professed belief in it demonstrates a certain inability to observe reality and form reliable judgments.
Does this mean that you also discount the ability to observe reality and form reliable judgments of anyone who professes to believe in a religion?
Does this mean that you also discount the ability to observe reality and form reliable judgments of anyone who professes to believe in a religion?
Yes. The amount of the discount depends on the specifics of course... Some people get considerable discounts...
"If forty million people say a foolish thing it does not become a wise one, but the wise man is foolish to give them the lie."
- Somerset Maugham
After my surgery last year when I was just starting to get out and hobble around, I often carried oxycodone pills on my person without the bottle as I was so out of it I was afraid if I carried the bottle in my messenger bag I might leave the bag somewhere and walk away from it - I was that out of it and had to get some errands and some things done regardless. So I can see situations arising where others might do the same and not have the prescription bottle with them. I was not caught and no issues took place but I can see where they could for some hapless victim of the overzealous revenue hungry "justice system". This is why I state that I am waiting for the multi million dollar payoff for the first person with the courage to stand up against the system when this happens to them. I just hope it goes to someone so disgusted that they flee America with their payoff. Who knows, to my knowledge such a case has not come to court yet.
About how large settlements lead to reform - something I have learned about Americans with money and power - the only way to effect change with such people is terror of financial loss. I find this very sad but yet very true. Also large settlements are a way to hold America and what it truly is for some accountable to its victims. Rob
First thing Rob, not trying to pick on you. A little too much of that going on for my tastes already. You have chosen to live your life in a certain way and I respect that. Now...
Carrying the oxy on your person rather than in the Rx bottle was a choice you made with the full knowledge of the potential consequences. If you didn't know about them, you should have. Like they say, ignorance of the law is no defense. That is true and necessary in order for a legal system to have any prayer of working for everyone. You didn't murder anyone, but you did break the law.
Regarding the ability of the masses to inflict financial terror on the landed gentry: that's classic "lower the ceiling" thinking and IMO it is totally wrong. The way to improve a situation is (almost) never to take from someone and "distribute" the booty to others. We're not Robin Hood. We are a society and the way to affect positive change within a society is to provide support and opportunity to those who, for whatever reason, got shortchanged. Check that, just provide it to everyone. Raise the floor.
In a very real way my comment above is totally moot anyway. The multi-million dollar award granted to someone who suffered from police misbehavior does not come from the oligarchy any more than it comes from you. Those payments are made by insurance companies retained by municipalities. At least that's how we do it where I live. The payment is made and then guess what happens to the price of the policy? Here's a hint, it goes up. But that additional cost is not assessed to only the 1% in the jurisdiction, it gets split up among everyone who lives there and works hard and pays taxes. The 1% AND the other 99%. And in the end if you are uber-wealthy and your property tax goes up, say, $1,000/year because of that its probably not going to even show up on the financial radar. But if you are an assistant dining room manager who scraped and saved to buy a home and your tax goes up $50 that means you have to work what? Three? Four? Five extra hours to pay the increase when you may already be working well beyond a comfortable level just to make ends meet. Its a classic case of being careful what you wish for.
Where is Big Al, here? I must notify him(tattle) that some of the forum members are "disparaging" each other! Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
gimmethesimplelife
3-31-15, 9:51pm
Does this mean that you also discount the ability to observe reality and form reliable judgments of anyone who professes to believe in a religion?Very good point. Rob
In a very real way my comment above is totally moot anyway. The multi-million dollar award granted to someone who suffered from police misbehavior does not come from the oligarchy any more than it comes from you. Those payments are made by insurance companies retained by municipalities. At least that's how we do it where I live. The payment is made and then guess what happens to the price of the policy? Here's a hint, it goes up.
As a commercial insurance underwriter I will say that you are absolutely correct. I will also say, however, that if enough municipalities go through expensive lawsuits something else will happen. Police actions exclusions will end up being put on the policies, not just of the 'bad' cities that have had these lawsuits against them, but all of the policies written. At that point, with coverage for this type of claim either not available or horrendously expensive to be added back on (and even then only available to cities that haven't had any lawsuits about this), city leaders will have to come up with a risk reduction strategy such as new training for police officers in methods of de-escalating conflicts.
Not saying that I agree or disagree with Rob's hope for how things will play out, or that it's the best way to resolve this, just that in the very long game he may well be right. Insurance companies are ok with losing money short-term but aren't willing to keep doing it for the foreseeable future.
flowerseverywhere
4-1-15, 8:01am
Well my original post was to point out the tremendous stress police are under and people are free to incite riots and tell lies with no consequences. Oops I'm sorry does not cut it.
So here is my story of a stressful job. I was working in a hospital as a nurse. My shift ended at 11:30 PM but it was so busy several of us were working overtime. It was about midnight and I went to the ER with someone to transport a Patient to the ICU. Some guy comes barreling into the ER and starts throwing things around and shouting profanities. There is glass everywhere, frightened old people and children, The staff is trying to protect the patients and outside police are called to help hospital security. Four police come in, take one look at the situation and take this guy down so fast I was awestruck. I was never so happy to see a police officer in my life. The guy was pretty cut up from all the glass and was spitting and verbally assaulting the officers. Needless to say I had young kids and ended up getting a much lower paying job in an MD office, although I loved the challenges and rewards of patient care.
I could have been sued on the job, or assaulted, or caught some gruesome disease but that is the way of the world. Police officers encounter the drunks, drugged, mentally ill, violent, armed and so on. Plus they have to pay the bills, deal with kids and spouses, maintain their property and so on, the normal stresses of life. So I was just trying to point out that while nobody disputes there are officers who overstep their bounds, there are a great majority of good guys out there protecting the public and it is so easy in today's climate to run with a story of racial profiling, or hands up don't shoot whether or not it is true. There is enough true stuff you don't have to lie.
Now if you really want some interesting reading, look up people killed by police officers in the US. For the few stories we read of bad officers wrongly firing guns you will read story after story of police being shot at, civilian human life in danger and General fearsome situations.
i maintain the only way to make change is not from fear or lawsuits, but working with the system. Get people on the force from the neighborhood that reflect the culture and racial makeup of the neighborhood. Step up and walk the walk.
My hat is off to ER nurses - they deal with a stream of mentally disturbed, drunk and high people coming in 24/7, and they do it without guns.
iris lilies
4-1-15, 9:28am
My hat is off to ER nurses - they deal with a stream of mentally disturbed, drunk and high people coming in 24/7, and they do it without guns.
...because they can call in the guns when needed, as evidenced by flowers' story.
...because they can call in the guns when needed, as evidenced by flowers' story.
and deal with the situation the 10-20 whatever number of minutes waiting for the guns to show up. Unless hospital security is armed? I'm not sure.
But thinking about it I'm actually surprised we don't hear more stories of people being shot in ER's.
flowerseverywhere
4-1-15, 11:39am
Well this was quite a few years ago and things like surveillance and security have been upgraded. If you google assaults on medical personnel or ER assaults there will be story after story. The bottom line is that there are violent and bad people out there.
But my point is there are numerous people out there who depend on the police to help them be safe. Anyone who goes into a person's home for whatever reason, like Firemen or EMT or police probably has an arsenal of stories to tell. I imagine Bae, with his emergency work has some doozies. If we had no police it would be like lord of the flies, bullying, victimizing, and violence would run amok. In a civilized society you have to have rules and people to enforce them or there would be chaos. Just look at the stories coming out of war zones as people try to flee. Horrendous.
A few bad apples do not give society the right to make up lies about police. Especially when the end result can be riots, burning down businesses, defamation of good peoples character adding stress to an already stressful job.
ApatheticNoMore
4-1-15, 11:54am
Of course if they under so much stress it might be a reason there judgement might be quite poor at times. I'm not sure it's the profession with greatest burnout as in people fleeing the job though, teachers in horrible school districts etc. tend to come to mind there, barely last a year (and they often start out believing in it as well).
They had a police chase recently, right here in this town, attempting to apprehend a bad guy, in a part of town that actually is not particularly rough. The officer was chasing the suspect on foot, and the guy turned and shot the cop in the head. The officer survived, but is permanently disabled--I think he lost an eye. The suspect, apprehended later, is in his late-30's, & will probably be incarcerated and living off the taxpayers for the rest of his life, due to this and numerous other prior felonies. It may not be pious to say so, but it would have ended somewhat better if the suspect had been shot fatally, at some point during the chase, before he wounded the officer. Saved everyone a whole lot of trouble and expense.
Anyone who goes into a person's home for whatever reason, like Firemen or EMT or police probably has an arsenal of stories to tell. I imagine Bae, with his emergency work has some doozies.
There are locations even here in Brigadoon that we will not respond to fire/EMS calls without law enforcement support. Our fire agency's technical rescue squad also backs up the Sheriff on calls requiring lots of force. We have a seminar tonight on domestic violence/sexual assault scene assessment, scene safety, and evidence procedures.
However, I think around here without police we wouldn't degenerate into the Lord of the Flies. We would however have a lot of well-fed crabs just offshore, and very few troublemakers. The veneer of civilization covers all sorts of behaviours....
However, I think around here without police we wouldn't degenerate into the Lord of the Flies. We would however have a lot of well-fed crabs just offshore, and very few troublemakers.
Lynch mobs are all good fun until you're the one who offends somebody.
Lynch mobs are all good fun until you're the one who offends somebody.
Ya, that's why civilization is generally preferable.
Its all about getting your message to the public. K.I.S.S. works.
http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/166201
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