View Full Version : Child neglect?
Are these bad parents?
Should CPS and the police be grabbing their children?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/maryland-couple-want-free-range-kids-but-not-all-do/2015/01/14/d406c0be-9c0f-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/CPS-Investigating-Md-Free-Range-Parents-Again-299520411.html
I think it really depends on the neighborhood but unless an area is known to be unsafe, letting the children explore on their own seems perfectly ok to me. My girlfriend and I would walk 8 blocks or so to school together when we were 7, I don't think this was seen as strange at all, and by the time we were 10, we were roaming the neighborhood all summer long. THe neighborhood was safe (of human predators) then, and it's safe now. I think learning to think and be competent in your environment includes learning how to be in the world without a leash, free to form your own perception of things. To me, this hypercontrol of children is freakish, egotistical and unhealthy.
It's amazing how many things that were a given in my childhood arouse the ire of the nanny state today. I rode my bike without a helmet. I had a paper route that involved knocking on strangers doors every month. I drank water from the tap. I walked to school. When another kid attacked me, I fought back. I would not have known what a "play date" was. It was a good week if I escaped some form of (generally well-deserved) corporal punishment. We could take peanuts to school. My parents would habitually shove me out the door for unsupervised play when I became too annoying. Nobody felt it necessary to censor my reading or TV viewing. Everybody most assuredly did not get a trophy.
My parents did not feel the need to treat me like a veal calf. I shudder to think how I might have turned out if they had.
catherine
4-13-15, 12:25pm
I assume the parents had assessed the neighborhood, and I assume they also trusted the relationship the two children had with each other, and thus felt reasonably safe in allowing them to take the walk. If that's the case, they are not neglectful at all.
I agree with LDAHL.
I don't know.
Everything is different in each generation. My 85 year old dad used to jump in the St Clair river and ride a 20 mile bike ride to his Aunt at age 10. I could not cross the busy street till 6th grade. My sons I joke had never rode bikes anywhere or crossed a busy street alone, then they got the key to the car.
It's a different world out there. I think those parents are acting like it's the world they want it to be........which it isn't.
So what do we do? ..........maybe let them do it and if their children get abducted or murdered, we just say "Oh well.........this is what you wanted."
It's a different world out there. I think those parents are acting like it's the world they want it to be........which it isn't.
What do the real-world statistics tell us about "danger" though, compared to the Golden Age of Ozzy & Harriet/Leave It To Beaver?
I realize the media likes to be all scary and such, but the data seems to indicate it is much safer Now than back in The Olde Days.
Ridiculous. The parents should be given an award for letting their children have even a moment of time without a hovering adult around.
Depends on the neighborhood. I would never do it, but I know I am paranoid...........
bae, I agree with you. The problem is that the media posts one off stories that happen (sometimes all over the globe) that frighten people about their own neighborhoods and towns. I grew up in Ozzie land and we had our strange neighbors that the kids were warned about, the perverts that drove around, the drunks downtown, etc. It was a part of life. My parents pushed us out of the house every day and we explored all over the wild areas and stores on foot or bike. The most accidents we ever had were within a block from our home.
Edited to add, my brother was hit by a car in FRONT of our house on a residential street, bitten by the next door neighbor's dog, my sister(the youngest child of four) was killed when she darted in front of a driver on a curve on the corner next to our house. The most dangerous place to be seemed to be within a block of our house. None of this means my parents would to keep the kids on the lot or inside the house. We were a family of 6 in 900 square feet.
True story, my Dad left my mom with three kids in downtown Honolulu when he decided to extend his vacation in Guam. She would give us each $1 and send us out to explore downtown Waikiki. Fabulous place. I was the oldest at 13. We went all over and even took the bus. No one even asked us why we were not in school.
The thing that drives me nuts is this "law enforcement without laws" . Drinking - 21 you are legal, under that you are not. Driving - very specific ages and rules.
And then there is this whole "fluffy" area where law enforcement can get involved and arbitrarily decide whether something is acceptable or not. Or whether to get involved or not.
You can't protest or work to change rules if there are no rules. It feels very "police state".
I wonder how many of you who feel this is okay, even have children? Those 2 kids are 10 and 6. I guess we all have a different sense of what's "safe" and what isn't. And sweetana......... When I was probably 7,I used to leave in the morning (in summer) and ride all over the place and come back for dinner. There's no way on earth I would let my children do anything like that now. Regardless of what the media does and doesn't say, these 2 kids in the news are just too young to be doing these things on their own. I'm not sure how to handle it legally though. I just don't know.
Miss Cellane
4-13-15, 5:44pm
I walked the 3/4 mile to school when I was in kindergarten. Technically, I was walking with my two older brothers, but they didn't want to be seen with a girl and a kindergartener at that, so I had to walk half a block in front of them. I walked home by myself. And this was only about 15 miles away from where the news story happened, but, of course, 50 years ago.
I could see the police picking up a couple of kids and driving them home and having a chat with the parents--if the police thought the neighborhood was not safe for the kids to be out in alone. That would make sense to me.
In another news article about this story, I think they cited a law about how young a child could be to be left in the care of another child--I think the younger child was the issue--the older child could have been out by himself, but he wasn't old enough to be in charge of someone as young as his sister. So while I think there was a lot of fuss and bother (and probably more damage to the children by being kept from their parents than would have happened to them on the street), there was a legal basis for what happened. Not saying I agree with the law in question, but the police weren't just acting on their own--there was a reason everything was done.
But I still think the police could have had a chat with the parents, scoped out the family and *then* made a determination about the kids, instead of what happened.
And I have to admit, not having had that level of supervision as a child, although I had very strict parents, it strikes me as odd when I realize that the "walkers" at the local elementary school have to have someone pick them up. Even the 6th graders can't walk home alone. My parents would never have stood for being the taxi service that modern parents are required to be for their kids.
ApatheticNoMore
4-13-15, 6:23pm
If I had kids I'd probably worry and I'd probably try to force myself not to act on the worry, and let them be kids, realizing that a parent's impulses to overprotection will just produce disturbed neurotic kids that spend a lifetime in therapy. Six might be young, 10 is definitely not. Of course if you happen to live in the very most violent neighborhoods in the entire country that may be a different story, but how many of these middle class parents with the busy body neighbors do?
[something that probably helped is that many kids walked home when I was a kid, so whether or not you walked with others, you were never entirely out of sight of other kids. Yea if the whole society gets more paranoid it doesn't help any]
I wonder how many of you who feel this is okay, even have children? Those 2 kids are 10 and 6. I guess we all have a different sense of what's "safe" and what isn't. And sweetana......... When I was probably 7,I used to leave in the morning (in summer) and ride all over the place and come back for dinner. There's no way on earth I would let my children do anything like that now. Regardless of what the media does and doesn't say, these 2 kids in the news are just too young to be doing these things on their own. I'm not sure how to handle it legally though. I just don't know.
As you know, I have 4 kids--they're all adult now, but my mother was overprotective with me, so I made sure I gave my kids all the rope that I felt they were mature enough to handle.
I do think the media drives fear and paranoia. For instance, more children die in backyard swimming pools than from guns. Child kidnappings from strangers amount to only 3% of of the Center for Missing and Exploited Children's caseload.
Parents know their children. My oldest son was born with street smarts--my third son is a worry wart and naive. So I gave the oldest a lot of latitude and freedom, but his younger brother--not so much.
I think there is a happy medium somewhere in this. I just don't think it's the choice they are making. But I'm not sure legal action should be part of it. I'm sure there are a lot of people who give their children too much free rein and never get noticed.
I just would never have done what they are doing......and my kids are fine and didn't miss out on much and learned to be self-sufficient. I think it should just be at an older age than 10 and 6.
Teacher Terry
4-13-15, 7:15pm
I let my kids walk the 3 blocks to school as long as there was more then 1-even in Kindergarten. I always thought they were safer in a group. I did not let them leave the block to play or go to a park alone until they were 12. I would not let a 10yo take a 6 yo to the park. However, I was a social worker for awhile & no one would have been charged with child neglect. The parents would have been told it was ok for the 10 yo but not the 6yo. However, this is the 2nd time these parents have done this after being warned as I understand it.
I was all over my tiny coastal town when I was little (e.g. six), with my faithful doberman Hap. My only instruction was not to go near the river or ocean. And I thought my parents were over-protective. The persecution of these parents shows how ridiculous governmental micromanagement has become.
goldensmom
4-14-15, 6:58am
Bottom line….were the children’s well being in danger? Factors to consider include but are not limited to location, the age and mental/physical status of the child and subjective factors such as community standards and personal opinion. There are no all inclusive laws as to what constitutes neglect but there is policy and common sense. What is neglect in one community may be accepted in another. What I deem neglect, you may not.
I wonder how many of you who feel this is okay, even have children?
I do and I do. I don't want my daughter growing up believing every aspect of her life needs to be managed for her.
I wonder how many of you who feel this is okay, even have children? Those 2 kids are 10 and 6. I guess we all have a different sense of what's "safe" and what isn't. And sweetana......... When I was probably 7,I used to leave in the morning (in summer) and ride all over the place and come back for dinner. There's no way on earth I would let my children do anything like that now. Regardless of what the media does and doesn't say, these 2 kids in the news are just too young to be doing these things on their own. I'm not sure how to handle it legally though. I just don't know.
i'm curious why you would never let kids that age out today despite you having gone out and about 3 years younger. Were there any situations that you had happen when you were that age that were concerning? I was one of those kids who was all over the neighborhood by 9 or 10, and was walking home several blocks from school by myself in kindergarten, as were all the other kids in my class. It would depend on my kids, but if they were like me, and if I had taught my kids how to call home on a pay phone, etc, as my parents did for me, I'd gradually give them responsibility. By 10 I'd think that a kid who has gradually learned how to handle being out in public alone should be pretty self-sufficient.
i have kids (they are older) and i work with kids and i have made social services calls. we just had a family in my program that had the kids taken by social services. it is a rough call, there are not always clear cut answers. i used to be more worried about social services but they did the right thing in taking custody of the kids in my program at least, p
i think what has changed is that there were people around when i was a kid riding my bike or walking by myself. there were mom's and grandmas home just around. now all those people we never noticed when we were kids are at work and there is really no one. i went back to some of the areas that were the 'wilds' when i was growing up and i got to run freely, and there were houses reasonably by, some parents around who noticed if anyone was a stranger or didn't belong. and i know the moms alerted each other. we were halfway down a street and when people like the magazine sales guys came to the neighborhood they got about 2 houses in before the phone tree started and every door was closed, every curtain pulled shut. we may not have noticed this as kids, but i know i heard it if i did anything stupid in the neighborhood so someone was watching!
I realize the media likes to be all scary and such, but the data seems to indicate it is much safer Now than back in The Olde Days.
Quite correct, according to this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/14/theres-never-been-a-safer-time-to-be-a-kid-in-america/) it has never been safer to be a child in America. Mortality for kids is down in call categories, including murder.
Quite correct, according to this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/14/theres-never-been-a-safer-time-to-be-a-kid-in-america/) it has never been safer to be a child in America. Mortality for kids is down in call categories, including murder.
You see this on a number of fronts. Gun violence decried even as it declines. The "rape culture" panic. Police shootings. It seems the safer we become, the more fearful we get.
catherine
4-14-15, 12:15pm
i think what has changed is that there were people around when i was a kid riding my bike or walking by myself. there were mom's and grandmas home just around. now all those people we never noticed when we were kids are at work and there is really no one.
Interesting--what you've said is exactly what this article (http://theweek.com/articles/546752/why-may-impossible-raise-free-range-kids) states: the loss of community makes a big difference in our being able to let our kids roam free. But the interesting twist here is that our neighbors who used to be our friends and watchdogs may now be adversaries if they don't like our parenting. It's those parents that are to be feared, not just some vague bogeyman out there waiting to do our child harm.
But I still think the amount of danger kids are in relative to "the good old days" is overstated, and if I had young kids today, I know I would still be more of the free-range mindset rather than the helicopter mom mindset.
That's a valid point about fewer neighbors, but the two children featured were never in any danger. I'd be inclined to move to a less punitive and pearl-clutching community if I were the parents.
More relevant data (http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/), in case anyone is interested.
Fear is big business. The military-industrial complex wants us to be afraid of terrorists, the law-enforcement industrial complex and the prison-industrial complex want us to be afraid of crime, and the media want us to be afraid of everything.
More relevant data (http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/), in case anyone is interested.
Fear is big business. The military-industrial complex wants us to be afraid of terrorists, the law-enforcement industrial complex and the prison-industrial complex want us to be afraid of crime, and the media want us to be afraid of everything.
That's very true. The local news portrays every rainstorm as the harbinger of Armageddon. We are told to be terrified of cops, of guns, of immigrants, of old white men, of young black men, of vaccines, of sunshine. College professors attach "trigger warnings" to materials, lest sensitive souls be traumatized by the last act of Hamlet. College students cringe in "safe zones" for fear of exposure to dangerous ideas.
The internet is full of horrific conspiracies. Cable news covers every plane crash with pornographic relish. Yet, we are demonstrably safer than previous generations. I'd blame the media, but they only stay in business by giving us what we want.
Interesting--what you've said is exactly what this article (http://theweek.com/articles/546752/why-may-impossible-raise-free-range-kids) states: the loss of community makes a big difference in our being able to let our kids roam free. But the interesting twist here is that our neighbors who used to be our friends and watchdogs may now be adversaries if they don't like our parenting. It's those parents that are to be feared, not just some vague bogeyman out there waiting to do our child harm.
But I still think the amount of danger kids are in relative to "the good old days" is overstated, and if I had young kids today, I know I would still be more of the free-range mindset rather than the helicopter mom mindset.
It's interesting to look at the reaction of people to the kids in the article and compare to the reaction when my 4 year old sister ran away from home 47 years ago. (Apparently she didn't like her new baby brother and decided to go live with our aunt 200 miles away in a different state. Thankfully she likes me better now...). She managed to get about a half mile from home when someone saw her and realized something wasn't right, stopped her, asked her where she was going and her address, and offered to drive her to my aunt's but only if mom said it was ok. She brought her home and my mom learned to take it seriously if my sister said she was going to Kansas. No police. No drama. Just a random stranger helping avert potential disaster from happening to my family.
iris lilies
4-14-15, 4:51pm
That's very true. The local news portrays every rainstorm as the harbinger of Armageddon...
.
with the tornado weather last week, I heard the most patronizing weather man speak that I had ever heard. He said "I need you to be in your basement now. " He repeated that wording several times.
I hated the wording, I had not heard that before. And of course they spent 20 minutes scaremongering about tornadoes. What a crock!
I think it's part of the problem - the babbling. The patronizing is just obnoxious.
They have so little of substance, and so they go on and on and on about what might happen, that statistically speaking won't. I think over time this helps shape the perception that much more has happened than really has, whether it's tornadoes or car jacking. There's huge coverage of every event that does occur, but there's also: He might have been kidnapped!! ... oh wait, he was hiding in his closet. But your mind remembers Kidnapped, and the next time you hear the word, your mind says oh gosh, again? How many kidnappings is that in a month? How many killer tornadoes? :0!
with the tornado weather last week, I heard the most patronizing weather man speak that I had ever heard. He said "I need you to be in your basement now. " He repeated that wording several times.
I hated the wording, I had not heard that before. And of course they spent 20 minutes scaremongering about tornadoes. What a crock!
This reminds me of,a show I was watching on the history channel a while back. Apparently the show routinely creates a horrible scenario and then games out a "worst case" bit by bit for the next hour. The episode I watched was about if a major tornado struck Washington DC and not only went down the mall but through Capitol Hill, and hit the White House and hit the...etc, etc, etc. By the end of the show this tornado,had taken a crazy route all through DC and, of course, had killed 10's of 1,000's of people and caused untold property damage. Never mind that only 7 Tornadoes have ever been recorded in DC, the last one 14 years ago, so the likelihood of the scenario presented was basically zero.
ApatheticNoMore
4-14-15, 6:01pm
How many killer tornadoes?
It's worse that that. How many sharknados? Have you ever really thought about that? And what about killer *tomatoes*? We can't forget about those.
i'm curious why you would never let kids that age out today despite you having gone out and about 3 years younger. Were there any situations that you had happen when you were that age that were concerning? I was one of those kids who was all over the neighborhood by 9 or 10, and was walking home several blocks from school by myself in kindergarten, as were all the other kids in my class. It would depend on my kids, but if they were like me, and if I had taught my kids how to call home on a pay phone, etc, as my parents did for me, I'd gradually give them responsibility. By 10 I'd think that a kid who has gradually learned how to handle being out in public alone should be pretty self-sufficient.
I was 7 58 years ago! No one ever got abducted. Another factor is that we live out in the country and there aren't many houses around, so they didn't wander off the property (which is 35 acres big). I'm really surprised at what most of you are saying.
I don't believe my kids suffered at all when I "micromanaged" them. And no matter what anyone says, it IS a different world out there now. If you want to take chances with your kids, it's your perogative. Everyone is different in their child-rearing beliefs. I would do it all the same again. I think we are also talking about a different age group. I biked far from home in the 50's. And my parents didn't watch me enough, and they didn't protect me, so I was more in the other direction with my own kids.
Yeah, people got kidnapped--remember Lindbergh? But just about as rarely as they do now. I remember reading the paper when I was about seven and asking my parents what "rape" meant...(I was met by the sounds of crickets while they frantically tried to think of some passable explanation). So bad things happened, but infrequently, just as they do now. We have a 24-hour news cycle, a lot of competing providers and what? twice as many people. It just seems like more.
It all changed on 9-11.
Breaking news alerts.
Situation rooms even when there is no situation occurring.
Multiple banners across the screen.
And 24 hours a day.
It's endless.
Best thing we can all do is boycott cable and satellite TV.
And no matter what anyone says, it IS a different world out there now.
I would agree with you on this statement, but I think we have reached opposite opinions. It IS a different world out there now, but the statistics all say it's a much safer world out there now than it was 58 years ago. The big difference is that we have so much media constantly telling us "BE VERY AFRAID!!! BE VERY AFRAID!!! YOUR KID WILL BE KIDNAPPED IF YOU LET THEM OUT OF YOUR SIGHT!!!" And frankly that isn't reality from what I can see.
Best thing we can all do is boycott cable and satellite TV.
+5000
Miss Cellane
4-15-15, 7:06am
Here's a link to a Washington Post editorial on the issue. The interesting thing is that at the end, they quote from a 1970s guide to telling if your 6 year old is ready for school.
Some of the factors to look for included:
Back then, your child was ready for first grade if he or she had two to five permanent teeth, were at least 6 years and 6 months old and these:
●Can your child tell, in such a way that his speech is understood by a school crossing guard or police where he lives?
●Can he travel alone in the neighborhood (four to eight blocks) to store, school, playground, or to a friend’s home?
●Can he be away from you all day without being upset?
Travel alone. Be away from parents all day. A completely different world from today.
Looking at statistics, in 2010, car accidents killed 444 one-to-four year olds, and 895 five-to-fourteen year olds. It is estimated that 100 abducted children are killed each year. Clearly the greater danger is cars, but we throw our kids into cars daily without a worry.
There's perception, and there's reality. Getting the two to match is difficult.
When I was about 12 (50 years ago) I was walking to school, and a car approached and asked me if I wanted a ride. I had been taught to refuse rides from strangers so I said no, and told my mother about it later. She commended me for doing the right thing. Did she freak out and drive me to school every day after that? No, of course not.
A few years later, when I was senior in high school, our music teacher was arrested for molesting girls. Interestingly, his car fit the description of the one that stopped me on the way to school years earlier. I've always wondered if it was the music teacher who stopped me. So, things did happen back in the old days.
iris lilies
4-15-15, 10:14am
When I was about 12 (50 years ago) I was walking to school, and a car approached and asked me if I wanted a ride. I had been taught to refuse rides from strangers so I said no, and told my mother about it later. She commended me for doing the right thing. Did she freak out and drive me to school every day after that? No, of course not.
A few years later, when I was senior in high school, our music teacher was arrested for molesting girls. Interestingly, his car fit the description of the one that stopped me on the way to school years earlier. I've always wondered if it was the music teacher who stopped me. So, things did happen back in the old days.
When I was 10 (also 50 years ago) and out walking about in our small town, an old guy offered me a quarter to get into the car with him. I didn't do it, of course, and I remember thinking "what? a quarter is peanuts! What does that old guy think I am, a baby who thinks a quarter is a lot of money?"
It was no big deal to me and I casually mentioned this to my mother when I got home. She freaked out and called the local law enforcement (and she should!). Having no interest in cars, I could barely describe the car. They didn't find the old guy.
Best thing we can all do is boycott cable and satellite TV.
+1 more.
catherine
4-15-15, 10:45am
When I was 10 (also 50 years ago) and out walking about in our small town, an old guy offered me a quarter to get into the car with him. I didn't do it, of course, and I remember thinking "what? a quarter is peanuts! What does that old guy think I am, a baby who thinks a quarter is a lot of money?"
haha!! Sounds like you haven't changed a bit, IL.
I guess in my case, my mother should have called someone, and frankly, she may have without telling me. But I was never offered a quarter.
A group of us encountered a flasher once, but I was too near-sighted to appreciate him--or to be appalled. :doh:
ApatheticNoMore
4-15-15, 1:56pm
Best thing we can all do is boycott cable and satellite TV.
why only cable and satellite, why not network t.v. as well? Isn't it pretty much the same thing?
I get most of my scary news online. Sometimes I think it would be better if the only news we got to worry about was happening within the places we personally, physically occupied. (an exaggeration, but I'm not sure it would be any worse than having input about every bad thing on the entire planet.)
I remember my late grade school days walking a sweet young lass or two home from school and maybe on a good day holding hands. I suppose holding hands might be old school, too.
Network TV ... Yeah it's the same. But at least it's free through the airwaves. I really hate paying for crap. :)
I had some terrible things happen to me when I was a young girl, over 50 years ago, when I was walking home from school by myself. Yeah, the good old days weren't so good.... And I was quite overprotective with my own kids as a result. I don't know that these parents are neglectful or not, I just know that if they were my kids I wouldn't let them walk alone.
Around here, people are told to walk with their kids to school for the first months, to teach them where to go and where to cross the streets. Then, at the age of 7 or 8 years, the kids are allowed to walk on their own.
In third grade, they have bicycle lessons, and tests about traffic rules. Afterwards, they are allowed to go to school by bike without their parents watching them.
I think it if good for kids to learn to go short distances on their own.
I had some terrible things happen to me when I was a young girl, over 50 years ago, when I was walking home from school by myself. Yeah, the good old days weren't so good.... And I was quite overprotective with my own kids as a result. I don't know that these parents are neglectful or not, I just know that if they were my kids I wouldn't let them walk alone.
I'm sorry for your bad experiences, Songbird. I think it's pretty "normal" when those of us who have had issues with bad experiences/lack of protection, etc., to have the pendulum swing the other way in our child-rearing techniques. Nothing at all wrong with it. I was "overprotective" with my kids, and they weren't damaged in the least. In fact, it has added to their appreciation of our concern for their welfare.
I was a mother who made sure the sleep-over houses had working smoke alarms, and if they rode with anyone everyone wore seatbelts, etc. Unfortunately, some parents flat out lied to me. :(
Nothing wrong with wanting your progeny to make it through childhood. It doesn't mean they are going to be helpless, naive, unaware, frightened. I wish more people were concerned with where their children are and what they're doing.
ApatheticNoMore
4-16-15, 12:22pm
Yea if one has certain experiences one won't repeat them. But of course statistically who you should watch for child abuse is the parents (watch their father), their grandparents, their uncles, friends of the family etc.. Most children are abused by those who they know. Doesn't almost all data say that? So that would imply the need to watch family members like a hawk. Then the daycare centers, people at school, at church (only if your catholic, just kidding :)) etc.. Of course I hate child abuse. Hell is for children. But it's usually done by family members and other people kids know, not dangerous strangers.
Though sure there was family member abuse to a degree, I could have used a lot more guidance on getting out and about in the world myself as something other than a helpless child (I can't imagine what a complete wreck of a human being I would have been if they hadn't even allowed us to walk to school - literally I'd be agorophobic or something probably because all other factors and the lack of even that competency - phew). Why I was so eager to drive (long before I was really ready or safe, though by luck no real crashes or anything), I didn't know how to get much of anywhere without driving!
I NEVER let my kids walk to school. teehee............ The school was 21 miles away!
Teacher Terry
4-17-15, 6:18pm
In elementary school we had a guy following my friend & I everyday trying to get us in his car. Neither of our mothers drove. My Dad called the police & was told he didn't hurt us so they couldn't do anything. My Dad told us that the next day he would be waiting at the school his car but we were to just walk by & pretend we didn't see him & keep going. We did & we never saw him again. I am sure my Dad scared him off but the bad thing is he probably just went to a different school.
My ex was sitting in his car one time watching our kids at the bus stop (he'd do that til they boarded) and someone turned him in. The kids came home with a note from the school warning of a man fitting his description and his car. He was mortified. So...trying to make sure the kids were safe and HE gets turned in as a pervert!
Oh Kay.......that's awful! Surely other parents recognized him for who he was! Did he turn himself in? :~)
We called and cleared it up...I got in trouble for laughing...:devil:
Miss Cellane
4-19-15, 9:25am
Something similar happened to my brother. A few years back, he quit his job when he got a grant to go to grad school. So he had free time during the day. One April vacation, he took his two younger kids to the playground to play. He considered them old enough to play on their own, so he sat down on a bench and was reading while keeping an eye on the kids. But some of the moms who were there must have come later, so didn't realize he was there with two kids. And they called the cops.
The situation was cleared up quickly, but my nephew and niece were completely freaked out by the police questioning their father.
While I can see why the moms were concerned, surely one or two of them could have, you know, spoken to my brother? Asked which kids were his? or something like that? Leaping to "man at playground must have evil intentions" seems paranoid.
cindycindy
4-19-15, 9:30am
My kids were raised with play dates and enrichment activities and grew up to be responsible adults. Although the likelihood of being abducted or abused by a stranger may have been then and may currently be improbable, it would be such a horror that I'd rather be overly cautious rather than take a risk however small. Remember him?: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/etan-patz-court-verdict-pedro-hernandez/
I think it was around 1990 when, in a small town near here, a little girl was playing with the neighborhood kids outside her trailer..........and she disappeared. They never found her again. Unfortunately, a mentally disturbed woman showed up 20 years later, saying she was that girl. The family got sooooo excited. But she was a fraud. :(
Miss Cellane
4-19-15, 5:35pm
My kids were raised with play dates and enrichment activities and grew up to be responsible adults. Although the likelihood of being abducted or abused by a stranger may have been then and may currently be improbable, it would be such a horror that I'd rather be overly cautious rather than take a risk however small. Remember him?: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/etan-patz-court-verdict-pedro-hernandez/
In 2011, more than 625 children under the age of 12 were killed in car accidents. The most recent child abduction facts I can find are from 2002, when 115 children were abducted by strangers. (And 203,900 children were abducted by family members.)
It was 6 times more likely that your children would die in your car than be by abducted by a stranger.
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children
And 10,000 are killed or injured by guns each year.
I think the world at large is safer today than when we were kids, but people are getting mixed messages. On the one hand, statistics are saying kids at large are safer and crime is down, yet folks like the right wing NRA and Fox news are spinning up folks to buy ever more arms saying 'watch out for criminals (or the government) so you need to be armed to the teeth!'
So, is crime really less or do we really need to arm ourselves to go grocery shopping or to school or church? Do we really need to stroll the streets with machine guns slung over our shoulders? Which is it folks? Gotta pick one or the other. Or maybe it's just a game. Tell everyone you need to be armed to protect yourself from "the bad guy with the gun", but scoff at anyone who actually believes that. Nudge nudge wink wink...
Look at the truth. Believe the truth. You don't really need to be armed at all times. You don't need an arsenal against your government, unless you also need a lifetime supply of tin foil. You can live your entire life without ever needing or using a gun (most people do) And the NRA is simply a LOBBY for gun sellers. And anyone who believes their shtick about 'arm yourself because of, everyone..' is being played. JMO
If you live in a half way decent neighborhood, and you know your neighbors, your kids will probably be safe.
It was 6 times more likely that your children would die in your car than be by abducted by a stranger.
So probably safer for the kids to walk to/from the park, eh?
cindycindy
4-19-15, 8:49pm
In 2011, more than 625 children under the age of 12 were killed in car accidents. The most recent child abduction facts I can find are from 2002, when 115 children were abducted by strangers. (And 203,900 children were abducted by family members.)
It was 6 times more likely that your children would die in your car than be by abducted by a stranger.
Like I said, I know the chances (of being abducted) were slim, but I have no regrets of not taking unnecessary risks (however small). We live in a semi-rural area, so we are dependent on a car, so riding in a car was a risk we had to take; no choice there. I'm not judging the "free range" parenting style; if the unspeakable happens (however unlikely), those parents will have to live with it. However safe an area is, I personally would not let an 11 year old and 6 year old walk a mile to the park. Nothing wrong with a parent joining them and enjoying the park as well as enjoying the company of their children.
From what I can tell, you're much more likely to be hit by lightning walking to the park than to be abducted. Better stay home.
I grew up during the time when the Green River Killer was active, and in an area not far from where several of the bodies of his victims were found. Yet my parents let me run around in the woods by myself all day, and walk back and forth to my friend's house a couple of miles away. I was probably more at risk from her father than a stranger, though -- my friend and I both strongly suspected that he had messed with another friend sexually, though she always denied it.
I do think the sense of community is a big thing. I always knew that if anyone strange approached us/me I could go immediately to the nearest house and they would help. Everybody knew everybody in our neighborhood. My mom and grandma took daily walks, so we were particularly visible in the community.
But to be honest, one of the reasons I'm kind of glad my kids have grown up in China is we didn't have to worry about being called out for our free range parenting style.
cindycindy
4-19-15, 9:48pm
From what I can tell, you're much more likely to be hit by lightning walking to the park than to be abducted. Better stay home.
Can't imagine that would be much comfort to Etan Patz' parents. (BTW, I preferred to accompany my kids to the park, not so much because off fear of abduction, but because I enjoyed the experience of doing things together. Not judging anyone else's parenting style; that's their business and their choice. As my parenting style is mine.)
Don't forget the Lindbergh kidnapping. Or Polly Klaas. Snatched from their homes. In fact, the majority of children who are victimized are at home when it happens.
I'm sure Benjamin Berry isn't feeling much comfort either. Of course, unless you happen to live in Morrow County Ohio you probably have no idea who he is. Car crashes involving dead children are common enough that they don't make national news.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/03/21/morrow-county-fatal-train-and-car-crash.html
I think, with that couple charged in the 'free range parenting' (why do i hate that term!) we aren't getting the whole story. I wonder if this couple are agitators of some kind in other ways. Or maybe they are irritants in the neighborhood. Or maybe their kids are brats. I'm just thinking there's more to this story than we know. Kids walk to parks, schools, playgrounds all the time without getting arrested. KWIM?
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