View Full Version : Election 2016: Donald Trump vs. Bernie Sanders??
haha,
Donald Trump is currently #2 in the Republican polls: Bernie is #2 behind Hillary, and has raised an impressive $15M in grassroots fundraising.
Can you imagine if they wound up winning their parties' nomination? Wow, now THAT would be a fun election! The country's biggest capitalist vs. the country's biggest socialist.
Who would YOU vote for? As for me, I'm Feelin' the Bern!
Trump isn't "the country's biggest capitalist". He's just a clown.
And Sanders isn't anywhere near this nation's biggest socialist :-)
I wouldn't vote for either of them.
Trump isn't "the country's biggest capitalist". He's just a clown.
And Sanders isn't anywhere near this nation's biggest socialist :-)
I wouldn't vote for either of them.
Well, maybe they're the most celebrated capitalist/socialists in politics at the moment. Kind of like caricatures of personalities in a wrestling match.
Well, maybe they're the most celebrated capitalist/socialists in politics at the moment. Kind of like caricatures of personalities in a wrestling match.
Well, I'll give you that Trump is a cartoon :-)
Sanders is an intelligent fellow with principles, and worthy of respect, I just disagree with him on too many points.
True enough, about both of them.
iris lilies
7-3-15, 2:27pm
It's nice for Hilary that The Donald is providing such a juicy distraction from her own troubles. The mainstream media loves them some Donald.
I see them both as primary catalysts. Their messages will influence the other candidates, moving them further in opposite directions until we end up with a Governor on the GOP side and whoever is left on the Dem side. If I were to prognosticate I'd say that Hillary will be the Dem candidate, if she doesn't implode in the next year, and if she does implode, Sanders will have the opportunity to show whether or not Socialism is ready to assume control of the country. That scenario will either be very entertaining, or extremely dis-heartening. I'm betting on entertaining.
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 3:38pm
I personally find Donald Trump very offensive. Were he to get on his hands and knees and beg forgiveness of Mexico and also if he were to take some of his immense wealth and fund some kinds of projects that would genuinely benefit the poor - say solar power for electricity for border barrios - it would not be enough. I can't forgive him for trashing that which has been so long a beacon of basic human rights for me - Mexico with it's much more affordable health care and now that I have insurance, to this day dental care.
Maybe this is not a majority opinion but in border states what I'm posting is everyday life for many. Trump would do well to realize that for so many Americans Mexico is a safety valve delivering hope and relief for those burnt by America and what it has become. How dare he have one critical word for Mexico? That finger needs to turn back around and deliver some home truths to the masses about the United States but I don't see someone like him ever having the courage to do such a thing. What a pathetic excuse for a successful man. Off soapbox now. Rob
Came back to add something not related to Donald Trump - I'm personally finding Bernie Sanders more interesting than Hillary and for me, that's saying a lot because I have liked Hillary ever since she rose to prominence when her husband was elected in 1992. Bernie's got some interesting ideas and seems to be much more idea heavy then Hillary, I have to give him that.
I think the reason both of them are getting traction is that the American people find candor--or what passes for candor--refreshing.
I think the reason both of them are getting traction is that the American people find candor--or what passes for candor--refreshing.
I agree… I think Trump is stealing some of my great Governor of NJ's thunder when it comes to that. Trump and Christie in a debate setting would be thoroughly entertaining.
iris lilies
7-3-15, 4:55pm
I personally find Donald Trump very offensive. Were he to get on his hands and knees and beg forgiveness of Mexico...
.
But that won't be happening, why would you think he would?
I personally find Donald Trump very offensive. Were he to get on his hands and knees and beg forgiveness of Mexico and also if he were to take some of his immense wealth and fund some kinds of projects that would genuinely benefit the poor - say solar power for electricity for border barrios - it would not be enough. I can't forgive him for trashing that which has been so long a beacon of basic human rights for me - Mexico with it's much more affordable health care and now that I have insurance, to this day dental care.
Maybe this is not a majority opinion but in border states what I'm posting is everyday life for many. Trump would do well to realize that for so many Americans Mexico is a safety valve delivering hope and relief for those burnt by America and what it has become. How dare he have one critical word for Mexico? That finger needs to turn back around and deliver some home truths to the masses about the United States but I don't see someone like him ever having the courage to do such a thing. What a pathetic excuse for a successful man. Off soapbox now. Rob
Came back to add something not related to Donald Trump - I'm personally finding Bernie Sanders more interesting than Hillary and for me, that's saying a lot because I have liked Hillary ever since she rose to prominence when her husband was elected in 1992. Bernie's got some interesting ideas and seems to be much more idea heavy then Hillary, I have to give him that.
If you are so pro Mexico.... move there! You rarely have anything good to say about the US.
I agree… I think Trump is stealing some of my great Governor of NJ's thunder when it comes to that. Trump and Christie in a debate setting would be thoroughly entertaining.
It would give "mud wrestling" a whole new meaning. Bombast, buffoonery, bullying...bring it on!
IshbelRobertson
7-3-15, 6:01pm
Trump is not liked here. His fights with locals re golf 'resorts' in areas of SSI have been illuminating. Our Scottish parly have been sycophantic and belligerent at different times!
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 6:26pm
If you are so pro Mexico.... move there! You rarely have anything good to say about the US.? It's wrong to show loyalty and respect for a country in which my life was worth affordable access to health and also dental care when in my own country my life was not worth this? I'm sorry, with all due respect, I'm not following you. If I didn't have nice words to say for Mexico for allowing me this access, would I not be guilty (to some degree) of human life having not been worth this access to health and dental care in the United States? i won't personally live with this - of course I have kind words and respect for Mexico and I will always stand up for it and have respect for it. Even if i were to win a huge lottery tomorrow - I'd always still feel this way. I don't ever forget a human rights based kindness. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 6:28pm
But that won't be happening, why would you think he would?I agree with you - it won't be happening. Just goes to show you how unthinking, uncaring, and utterly low class the man really is. Further proof for me that money doesn't always equal class. Rob
If I didn't have nice words to say for Mexico ... I don't ever forget a human rights based kindness. Rob
Mexico. A shining example of respect for human rights. Especially if you are a wealthy gringo from the North coming down to take advantage of the system supported by oppression of the Mexican citizenry.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/mexico/report-mexico/
...Y a otra cosa, mariposa...
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 6:49pm
Mexico. A shining example of respect for human rights. Especially if you are a wealthy gringo from the North coming down to take advantage of the system supported by oppression of the Mexican citizenry.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/mexico/report-mexico/
...Y a otra cosa, mariposa...Bae, put yourself in my shoes for just one moment. Suppose you had lacked any kind of affordable access to health care at various points in your life, but with a three hour trip and by crossing a border, you could actually afford to see a doctor and get needed medicine. Would you not sing the praises of such a country that allowed you such access? I personally see it as ungrateful and extremely disrespectful for someone like myself not to both praise Mexico and to stand up for it - though I am aware that there are numerous problems there. On the other hand, I'm also award that in spite of the corruption and the cartel violence, the middle class in Mexico is actually GROWING while without this level of violence and minus the cartels our middle class in SHRINKING. Just cold blooded food for thought.....but before I go I will once again state I'm aware that Mexico has some human rights work to do, yes. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 6:54pm
Mexico. A shining example of respect for human rights. Especially if you are a wealthy gringo from the North coming down to take advantage of the system supported by oppression of the Mexican citizenry.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/mexico/report-mexico/
...Y a otra cosa, mariposa...For someone like Donald Trump to take cheap shots at Mexico is to insult and disrespect anyone such as myself who has been forced across the border to access health care. Maybe that finger might want to get pointed back at the United States with a clear explanation of why all these years there was no framework until ObamaCare to guarantee access to health care in the US? And there still isn't for the poor who would quality for expanded Medicaid but live in states that opted not to expand it. Mr. Trump, i'm waiting for an explanation - surely as a Presidential Candidate, you must have an explanation to offer? Rob
For someone like Donald Trump to take cheap shots at Mexico is to insult and disrespect anyone such as myself who has been forced across the border to access health care. Maybe that finger might want to get pointed back at the United States with a clear explanation of why all these years there was no framework until ObamaCare to guarantee access to health care in the US?
I think his answer would be "It's not the government's job to be your parent or your spouse. As an adult, with all the incumbent responsibilities of adulthood, you should learn to provide for yourself."
Would you not sing the praises of such a country that allowed you such access?
The irony in that statement is that you can go into any Texas public hospital emergency room or obstetrics ward and find quite a few undocumented Mexican or Latin American folk there utilizing services. Whether they intend to pay or not, I don't know. I do know I pay around $350 a year now in hospital taxes for indigent care so I assume it is covering some of their expenses.
I think his answer would be "It's not the government's job to be your parent or your spouse. As an adult, with all the incumbent responsibilities of adulthood, you should learn to provide for yourself."
http://robertreich.org/post/98079430765
"{In America, people with lots of money can easily avoid the consequences of bad bets and big losses by cashing out at the first sign of trouble. The laws protect them through limited liability and bankruptcy."
This is what happens when you let corporations write laws. Irresponsible jerks like Trump get let off the hook.
? It's wrong to show loyalty and respect for a country in which my life was worth affordable access to health and also dental care when in my own country my life was not worth this? I'm sorry, with all due respect, I'm not following you. If I didn't have nice words to say for Mexico for allowing me this access, would I not be guilty (to some degree) of human life having not been worth this access to health and dental care in the United States? i won't personally live with this - of course I have kind words and respect for Mexico and I will always stand up for it and have respect for it. Even if i were to win a huge lottery tomorrow - I'd always still feel this way. I don't ever forget a human rights based kindness. Rob
You need to move there. You never say anything good about the US... only what is wrong. If you don't like it here.... LEAVE!!!!
http://robertreich.org/post/98079430765
"{In America, people with lots of money can easily avoid the consequences of bad bets and big losses by cashing out at the first sign of trouble. The laws protect them through limited liability and bankruptcy."
This is what happens when you let corporations write laws. Irresponsible jerks like Trump get let off the hook.
See, that's the thing about big government, it is beholden to special interests whether they are corporations or voting blocs of people feeling oppressed. People who vote for big government should expect more of the same.
For better or for worse, the politicians in both our major parties are for big government. And since they write the rules this won't likely change in our lifetimes. With that in mind the question becomes whether we want a government that benefits the large corporate "people" or one that actually benefits physical people.
... that benefits the large corporate "people" or one that actually benefits physical people.
And it's worth looking a bit into the entities that own the shares of the large corporations. Quite often you'll find that it's large mutual funds and pension funds, which are managing the combined capital of lots of individual physical people on their behalf, but with several layers of disconnect between the physical people and the final management decisions....
http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1329260478l/652112.jpg
flowerseverywhere
7-3-15, 9:45pm
At least Trump says exactly how he feels. There are many people who would vote for a candidate who truly would deal with the immigration mess. Immigration needs reform. Like healthcare did. And gay marriage. At least decisions were made and challenged and clarified.
And it's worth looking a bit into the entities that own the shares of the large corporations. Quite often you'll find that it's large mutual funds and pension funds, which are managing the combined capital of lots of individual physical people on their behalf, but with several layers of disconnect between the physical people and the final management decisions....
http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1329260478l/652112.jpg
Indeed. Although then the question is, who are these people who have pensions and mutual funds? Defined benefit pensions are a luxury that only a small minority of American workers today have. And everything I've read says that most Americans have woefully underfunded their 401(k)'s. Sure, the top 10-20% of Americans in terms of net wealth are actually the physical people behind the corporate "people". But that leaves 80-90% who aren't. It's kind of surprising, and impressive, that the wealthy have been so successful in keeping the populist viewpoint as successfully suppressed for the last 35 years as they have.
ApatheticNoMore
7-3-15, 10:21pm
Indeed. Although then the question is, who are these people who have pensions and mutual funds? Defined benefit pensions are a luxury that only a small minority of American workers today have.
government workers ..... not much else with pensions these days
And everything I've read says that most Americans have woefully underfunded their 401(k)'s. Sure, the top 10-20% of Americans in terms of net wealth are actually the physical people behind the corporate "people". But that leaves 80-90% who aren't. It's kind of surprising, and impressive, that the wealthy have been so successful in keeping the populist viewpoint as successfully suppressed for the last 35 years as they have.
yes the wealthy own most stocks, but as for Joe Average's underfunded 401k, he'd be better off if CDs paid anything probably than gambling on the stock market (but the powers that be wanted zero interest rates forever - it wasn't voted on), better off if Social Security was substantially increased so that it provided a decent minimum for all than gambling on those stocks and bonds (but that was never placed to a vote either). Joe Schmoe might be better off if investments were left to wealthy individuals and at best he gambled tiny amounts of play money he could afford to lose, and he could just relax about retirement. But that's not the way it is in the U.S.. Mostly if one isn't an investment expert it's often just deciding on some sort of asset allocation and trying to find funds with low fees.
Indeed. Although then the question is, who are these people who have pensions and mutual funds?
Might want to look into the size of various state teachers' and government employees' funds. Whenever I look at the ownership breakdown of a company I am considering investing in, there are a handful of key funds that keep popping up.
CALPERS has ~$300 billion they are managing, for instance.
CALSTRS has about $190 billion.
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 11:38pm
You need to move there. You never say anything good about the US... only what is wrong. If you don't like it here.... LEAVE!!!!With all due respect, and not to belabor the point, you didn't answer my questions/issues that I raised. I have been forced at times in the past to cross the border - it was the only option I had as human life until very recently was not worth access to health care in much of America. This is a valid and legit point and I can speak of it at great length as I've experienced this first hand. My neutral advice to you would be to walk a block or two in my shoes and then perhaps you'd at least consider addressing my questions/issues? Furthermore, the ACA has not completely drowned out such issues.....it so happens that i luckily live in a state that chose to expand Medicaid (and I have a great deal of respect for the Republican ex-governor who took on her party so this could actually happen) but then there are many other Robs out there in states that did not expand Medicaid - such as Texas and most of the deep South. What's that saying.....the deep South. So far from God, so far from ACA approval/Expanded Medicaid, so far from the Mexican border. Seems to fit to me. At any rate, I'm not the only one out there with this outlook/valid life experience/opinion. Thank Goodness. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 11:40pm
For better or for worse, the politicians in both our major parties are for big government. And since they write the rules this won't likely change in our lifetimes. With that in mind the question becomes whether we want a government that benefits the large corporate "people" or one that actually benefits physical people.I'll take the latter. And I agree with your point - both major parties do seem to be for big government. And going with Bernie Sanders is not going to reduce the size of government, either, methinks. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-3-15, 11:45pm
At least Trump says exactly how he feels. There are many people who would vote for a candidate who truly would deal with the immigration mess. Immigration needs reform. Like healthcare did. And gay marriage. At least decisions were made and challenged and clarified.I agree with you - he does say how he feels. I'll give you that. Unfortunately to do so without a filter lost the vote of many Mexicans/Hispanics, pissed off one of our largest trading partners, and insulted anyone on the US side who has ever been forced to cross the border for health/dental.....Trump played to stereotypes and not overall facts, and somehow with his vast wealth, this seems even more inexcusable than if i were to spout off such.....though i never would. i may not have money but i have the life experience to know better. It seems to me that the systems is structured in such as way that those of us who have the life experience to know better have a snowball's chance in hell of ever having political power. Rob
Gardenarian
7-4-15, 1:30am
If you are so pro Mexico.... move there! You rarely have anything good to say about the US.
Seriously?
Seriously?
Yeah, I thought the "Love it or leave it" meme died a merciful death in the seventies. I think the stock response then was "Change it or lose it."
ApatheticNoMore
7-4-15, 11:30am
Of course going to Mexico for medical care is to some extent benefiting from the U.S. and not just befitting from Mexico. It benefits from a favorable exchange rate of the dollar to the peso. In a "just world" would the exchange rate be so favorable? Unlikely. "The west" would be somewhat poorer and the "global south" somewhat richer. My point is not one must cut of their nose to spite their face because "in a just world ...", it was more one does benefit in some ways by being a citizen of such a dominant global power.
gimmethesimplelife
7-4-15, 3:24pm
Interestingly enough....google Leave Your Healthcare Woes Behind By Moving To Mexico.....an article by the Huffpost about people who have done just that to not be held hostage by US healthcare and to reclaim their basic human rights and human dignity over US profit based healthcare. For those of you who are not in favor of this idea, no one says you have to do this - just don't be surprised that more and more people end out fleeing to Mexico or elsewhere - they are only responding to market incentives to flee the United States. Rob
Yeah, I thought the "Love it or leave it" meme died a merciful death in the seventies. I think the stock response then was "Change it or lose it."
Yes. Sick and tired of the complaining. If it is so much better elsewhere... go there permanently.
iris lilies
7-5-15, 1:12am
Interestingly enough....google Leave Your Healthcare Woes Behind By Moving To Mexico.....an article by the Huffpost about people who have done just that to not be held hostage by US healthcare and to reclaim their basic human rights and human dignity over US profit based healthcare. For those of you who are not in favor of this idea, no one says you have to do this - just don't be surprised that more and more people end out fleeing to Mexico or elsewhere - they are only responding to market incentives to flee the United States. Rob
I am in favor of adults taking charge of their lives and living where they wish to live. You keep raising a straw man as argument, again and again, as in people who are "not in favor" of moving to Mexico for health care.
I say, move to Mexico for health care or for any reason you want. I can't imagine that reasonable people give one flying f**k about where you or other people choose to live, and why you or they choose to live there.
I am in favor of adults taking charge of their lives and living where they wish to live. You keep raising a straw man as argument, again and again, as in people who are "not in favor" of moving to Mexico for health care.
I say, move to Mexico for health care or for any reason you want. I can't imagine that reasonable people give one flying f**k about where you or other people choose to live, and why you or they choose to live there.
Amen!
I think his answer would be "It's not the government's job to be your parent or your spouse. As an adult, with all the incumbent responsibilities of adulthood, you should learn to provide for yourself."
There you go again with that personal responsibility thing Alan. Its danged inconvenient when you do that. :D
Yeah, I thought the "Love it or leave it" meme died a merciful death in the seventies. I think the stock response then was "Change it or lose it."
+1
I say, move to Mexico for health care or for any reason you want. I can't imagine that reasonable people give one flying f**k about where you or other people choose to live, and why you or they choose to live there.
I go for the beaches. Seriously, have you ever seen the Mayan Riviera? The citrus fruit is really good, too.
rodeosweetheart
7-6-15, 11:06am
I went to Cozumel twice. Really beautiful, but I think too hot for me now. And way too far from family. I can't see expatriating unless I can take them all with me!
Might want to look into the size of various state teachers' and government employees' funds. Whenever I look at the ownership breakdown of a company I am considering investing in, there are a handful of key funds that keep popping up.
CALPERS has ~$300 billion they are managing, for instance.
CALSTRS has about $190 billion.
These two funds are so staggeringly underfunded as to be among the primary reasons for California's horrific credit ratings. If the State's taxpayers are ultimately called on to bail them out, "pension plan socialism" will get an entirely new meaning.
Amen!
I am in favor of adults taking charge of their lives and living where they wish to live. You keep raising a straw man as argument, again and again, as in people who are "not in favor" of moving to Mexico for health care.
I say, move to Mexico for health care or for any reason you want. I can't imagine that reasonable people give one flying f**k about where you or other people choose to live, and why you or they choose to live there.
+1
Trump must be in conflict. He loves money like Montgomery Burns. He loves attention like a Kardashian-Jenner. Now his quest for the latter is hurting the former. His business brand is taking a beating. What's a Trump to do?
I love him being in the race. I mean, it is an entertainment gift. But I think he is heading for a big hangover when he wakes up from all this.
These two funds are so staggeringly underfunded as to be among the primary reasons for California's horrific credit ratings. If the State's taxpayers are ultimately called on to bail them out, "pension plan socialism" will get an entirely new meaning.
Ultimately the state's taxpayers (and I am one of them) should be called on to pay for this. This was something we agreed to so we should honor the debt. Just as NJ should honor their obligation despite Chris Christie's recent success in court in welching on their deal with state employees to provide a certain level of funding to their pension. The bottom line is that estimating pension obligations isn't rocket science. Actuaries have gotten really good at this over the years. In a perfect world pension plans, and the laws that dictate their funding, shouldn't be something so easily manipulated by politicians or business owners. When the underfunding becomes unavoidably necessary to deal with the honorable thing to do is suck it up and pay, not accuse the pensioners (and future pensioners) of being greedy assholes.
iris lilies
7-9-15, 12:38am
Trump must be in conflict. He loves money like Montgomery Burns. He loves attention like a Kardashian-Jenner. Now his quest for the latter is hurting the former. His business brand is taking a beating. What's a Trump to do?
I love him being in the race. I mean, it is an entertainment gift. But I think he is heading for a big hangover when he wakes up from all this.
gg? from old SL days? Hey dude, I remember you. Welcome back.
What's a Trump to do?
Declare bankruptcy and start all over again? But making sure that sufficient assets are socked away outside so that he doesn't have to live/work like a poor rapist/criminal while he makes his next billion.
Trump must be in conflict. He loves money like Montgomery Burns. He loves attention like a Kardashian-Jenner. Now his quest for the latter is hurting the former. His business brand is taking a beating. What's a Trump to do?
... .
Great line.
Williamsmith
7-10-15, 5:25am
Declare bankruptcy and start all over again? But making sure that sufficient assets are socked away outside so that he doesn't have to live/work like a poor rapist/criminal while he makes his next billion.
According to what I've read, he has used bankruptcy four previous times. Now how can a guy keep making money after that? How can anyone take him seriously? Well I guess he will just have to do what Jeb suggested......work more hours!
flowerseverywhere
7-11-15, 5:55am
According to what I've read, he has used bankruptcy four previous times. Now how can a guy keep making money after that? How can anyone take him seriously? Well I guess he will just have to do what Jeb suggested......work more hours!
some states allow you to keep equity in your home. In Florida you can keep unlimited equity in your home. I know this from watching a company go bankrupt in a building I worked in. The owners bought huge waterfront proprerties in Florida and established residency there before declaring.
you also can shield assets in things like trusts, gifting to families. you could even stash cash and gold in a safety deposit box so your assets aren't showing.
some states allow you to keep equity in your home. In Florida you can keep unlimited equity in your home. I know this from watching a company go bankrupt in a building I worked in. The owners bought huge waterfront proprerties in Florida and established residency there before declaring.
you also can shield assets in things like trusts, gifting to families. you could even stash cash and gold in a safety deposit box so your assets aren't showing.
There was a study done some years back that showed a relatively very high percentage of FL homes valued over $5M were owned by people who had declared Chapter 7. I could not find that online, but do remember thinking it was a rather unique combination of savvy and sleazy. Cash, gold, valuable jewelry, etc. is legally required to be listed in a bankruptcy petition. Just sayin...
Also worth noting that there's a pretty significant legal difference between an individual bankruptcy and a corporate bankruptcy. I am under the assumption that Trump's were all on the corporate side of his ledger. Not that it mattered to his creditors, but that would explain how Trump, the individual, was able to keep deals rolling.
Williamsmith
7-15-15, 4:33pm
Thus far a lot about Trump but what about Sanders?
Sanders? No bankruptcies. Apparently he's old school. he believes in paying his debts.
Sanders? No bankruptcies. Apparently he's old school. he believes in paying his debts.
And his net worth is a paltry 350,000. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/politics/election-2016-richest-presidential-candidates/
Sanders, a self-proclaimed socialist and a staunch critic of Wall Street, has an estimated net worth of $330,507, making him the poorest candidate currently in the race.
This guy is NOT in it for the money.
Williamsmith
7-15-15, 9:36pm
Sanders happens to be a better candidate than Hillary. Much less baggage and firm on his positions. I don't agree with several of them but in terms of being clearly out of the beltway crowd, this guy is no fraud. And I can't say that about many others. His politics may have been fringe a few years ago but his timing might just be right now. Biggest problem is that the Clinton political machine insists on Hillary for President. All others will capitulate in the end. He might make her a nice Vice President.
I'm a little weary of the Bush and Clinton monarchies ...
iris lilies
7-16-15, 1:12am
Sanders happens to be a better candidate than Hillary. Much less baggage and firm on his positions... .
If he is to become our President, let's all hope that he's NOT firm on his opinion that cervical cancer is caused by lack of orgasms.
"Mr. Sanders...wrote some articles in which he cited studies claiming that cancer could be caused by psychological factors such as unresolved hostility toward one’s mother, a tendency to bury aggression beneath a “facade of pleasantness” and having too few orgasms. Sexual adjustment seemed to be very poor in those with cancer of the cervix,” he wrote, quoting a study in a journal called Psychosomatic Medicine."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/04/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-revolutionary-roots-were-nurtured-in-60s-vermont.html?_r=0
freshstart
7-16-15, 2:20am
Bernie said that almost 45 yrs ago for a radical Burlington newspaper. Stupid? Yes. But he allegedly didn't write the statement himself, he was quoting a study. I cannot find his response to this so I will wait to pass judgment, sounds 70s hippie-dippyish to me
Donald, "When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists." and he wants to build the best boarder wall possible and make Mexico pay for it.
Bernie has said some weird shit but overall, I'm behind him. I'm not going anywhere the Donald leads us
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-15, 2:41am
All that stuff is supposed to be negative it actually paints a positive picture to me.
"Mr. Sanders contributed only sporadically. He interviewed a “labor agitator” and an old-time farmer, and he wrote some articles about health, including one in which he cited studies claiming that cancer could be caused by psychological factors such as unresolved hostility toward one’s mother, a tendency to bury aggression beneath a “facade of pleasantness” and having too few orgasms. Sexual adjustment seemed to be very poor in those with cancer of the cervix,” he wrote, quoting a study in a journal called Psychosomatic Medicine."
I'd tend to read a sentence like that (the correlation) as people have trouble adjusting to sex again after cancer of the crevix, which sounds plausible to me (would it involve gynecological surgery) though I really know nothing about that.
But if he's really suggesting lack of sexual adjustment causes cancer, ha, channeling Wilhelm Reich. :) Who was popular in the 60s. Quick to the orgone accumulator! The unresolved hostility towards one's mother is more Freudian. It might be a bit late in time for that by then in the 70s, but Freudianism absolutely dominated psychological thought at one point in time. As silly as it was for it to be so dominant, it was. My dad studied psychology for awhile in college (late 1940s maybe) and gave up on that subject of study when everything was about wanting to sleep with one's mother! The "fascade of pleasantness" was the "type C personality" theory of cancer that was floated for awhile, I'm not sure it was ever strongly researched, but it was an idea that was out there in the culture to some degree.
I'm not sure any of these ideas were ever mainstream, though perhaps less out there than they appear in retrospect, but that's kind of what's so charming about it. It shows a very wide ranging curiosity to be so interested in so much and rather unconventional about it, at the appropriate age (when young when it's natural to experiment with ideas as well as other things, if of an intellectual bent). Since psychosomatic is still debated as an idea, but none of those hardline ideas listed are really taken very seriously anymore, a more modern analogy might be someone who goes through a period of being obsessed with alternative medicine in their youth maybe.
Although I find the young Bernie Sanders to be more positive than not, I need no convincing that whatever Bernie Sanders is or was, Bernie Sanders (1970) != Bernie Sanders (2015). Because noone is. But also because years of being an established Senator has to change one. I doubt Bernie Sanders would ever make any policy based on a belief that lack of orgasms cause cancer.
Williamsmith
7-16-15, 5:42am
Trump released his financials. Worth over 10 Billion. Now I know lots of people like to point out that filthy rich means successful businessmen or women who know how to get things done. To which I say if amassing all that wealth truly does qualify you as a leader, what does losing large sums of money at a time do to your credibility? Lists of the wealthiest people are changing daily. Recently, the Chinese stock market took a chunk of credibility out of the richest Chinese billionaires. They lost over 195 million in one fell swoop.
But the arrogance that goes with this is amazing.......did you know that Donald Trump is "Fighting to make America great again."
iris lilies
7-16-15, 12:23pm
Bernie said that almost 45 yrs ago for a radical Burlington newspaper. Stupid? Yes. But he allegedly didn't write the statement himself, he was quoting a study...
He wrote an article that promoted the idea, a stupid idea as you point out. His intent was to educate the good citizens of Vermont to this idea. He must have liked the idea enough to to champion it.
But all of that said, this idea about the origin of cervical cancer sounds Freudian which would have been the operative theory back in the 60's before Kinsey, masters and Johnson, etc. and Bernie was just reporting the knowledge of the moment. Its true because Science.
Its true because Science.
Science has become a tool used by the left to promote particular agendas and bash their opponents. If you believe that science is never settled (AGW), you're a denier, if you believe that a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX), you're a cretin. It's poetry in motion, they're blinding me with science.
Ultralight
7-16-15, 1:05pm
Science has become a tool used by the left to promote particular agendas and bash their opponents. If you believe that science is never settled (Global Warming), you're a denier, if you believe that a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX), you're a cretin. It's poetry in motion, they're blinding me with science.
Science is for sinners! ;)
...If you believe that a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX), you're a cretin.
No, you're not a cretin, you're just uninformed. It helps if you get your science from some source other than Internet click-bait feeds though.
Science shows us some things are not the simple binary models our middle-school science textbooks portray. I have worked with many transgendered folks over the years, either teaching them self-defense (because of the wonderful rate of violence directed towards transgendered people) or more recently providing emergency medical care. A fair number of these individuals did not decide to switch genders because they saw some Lifetime special-of-the-week on the lifestyle and wanted to be hip, but because they were born with an intersex condition, a legitimate, observable medical condition. Intersexed individuals are born with, or develop, genitalia that is "confusing", and are (or were) often assigned a gender at birth by their doctor or parents. Sometimes the wrong choice was made early in life, and needs revised.
It's not as simple as XY or XX. I know this well, as a sizeable portion of my own cells are XYY. I luckily escaped the era of abortion of XYY fetuses or chemical castration of XYY individuals.
Carry on.
Ultralight
7-16-15, 2:02pm
No, you're not a cretin, you're just uninformed. It helps if you get your science from some source other than Internet click-bait feeds though.
Science shows us some things are not the simple binary models our middle-school science textbooks portray. I have worked with many transgendered folks over the years, either teaching them self-defense (because of the wonderful rate of violence directed towards transgendered people) or more recently providing emergency medical care. A fair number of these individuals did not decide to switch genders because they saw some Lifetime special-of-the-week on the lifestyle and wanted to be hip, but because they were born with an intersex condition, a legitimate, observable medical condition. Intersexed individuals are born with, or develop, genitalia that is "confusing", and are (or were) often assigned a gender at birth by their doctor or parents. Sometimes the wrong choice was made early in life, and needs revised.
It's not as simple as XY or XX. I know this well, as a sizeable portion of my own cells are XYY. I luckily escaped the era of abortion of XYY fetuses or chemical castration of XYY individuals.
Carry on.
Amen to this!
Teacher Terry
7-16-15, 2:22pm
There was an article in today's paper about 3 people where Medicaid was not expanded & they can't get care. One guy was a farmer who lost an arm, can't afford a prosthetic and also has a serious heart condition. If he lived 5 miles over the border In Kentucky he could. He sold all his animals to make ends meet. He owns the small farm with his brother. Most likely he will die from his heart condition. One was a preacher that always worked until he became too sick in his 50's. Moved in with his sister but can't get his meds. All the stories were people in their 50's who had always worked. Yes they can apply for SSDI but it can take 2 years & many appeals. Then if they do win it takes another 2 years before they can get on Medicare. Many will probably be dead by then. I saw this in my past job over & over again . Sanders is a real empathic person while Trump is a joke.
Ultralight
7-16-15, 2:24pm
I am a big fan of the movie Idiocracy but I don't want Trump to continue (or speed up) our national march in that direction.
No, you're not a cretin, you're just uninformed. It helps if you get your science from some source other than Internet click-bait feeds though.
I guess I'm as uninformed as any other grandparent of a child with Klinefelter Syndrome (That's XXY for the truly uninformed). Thanks for the assumption though.
Carry on.Will do!
I guess I'm as uninformed as any other grandparent of a child with Klinefelter Syndrome (That's XXY for the truly uninformed). Thanks for the assumption though.
Seems a natural conclusion to draw from your statement: "a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX)". People with XY or XX chromosomes can still have confusing phenotypes. Recent scientific research has uncovered all sorts of interesting neurological differences in trans-folk too.
So perhaps a different example would have been appropriate for your blinded-by-science offering.
Seems a natural conclusion to draw from your statement: "a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX)".
Or perhaps a more desired conclusion?
freshstart
7-16-15, 2:49pm
It's poetry in motion, they're blinding me with science.
It's bigotry and ignorance, they're blinding me with "faith"
freshstart
7-16-15, 2:52pm
There was an article in today's paper about 3 people where Medicaid was not expanded & they can't get care. One guy was a farmer who lost an arm, can't afford a prosthetic and also has a serious heart condition. If he lived 5 miles over the border In Kentucky he could. He sold all his animals to make ends meet. He owns the small farm with his brother. Most likely he will die from his heart condition. One was a preacher that always worked until he became too sick in his 50's. Moved in with his sister but can't get his meds. All the stories were people in their 50's who had always worked. Yes they can apply for SSDI but it can take 2 years & many appeals. Then if they do win it takes another 2 years before they can get on Medicare. Many will probably be dead by then. I saw this in my past job over & over again . Sanders is a real empathic person while Trump is a joke.
the states that chose that, knowing how many hundreds of thousands of poor, ill people would be affected, I truly have no words.
Identity is a funny thing, isn’t it? You’ve got this whole mashup of biological, psychological and cultural factors influencing gender identity. I’ve read that a surprising number of people claim Irish or Native American ancestry (honestly, I’m not referring to the Elizabeth Warrens and Ward Churchills of the world) that can’t be substantiated by genetic testing. I don’t know why those particular breeds would be more popular than others. There are any number of people claiming to be Holocaust survivors or combat veterans who were in fact not. People from some pretty comfortable backgrounds will insist they grew up poor. Nice suburban kids identify as jihadis. There are people out there who think of themselves as vampires.
The fluidity of it all is fascinating.
Ultralight
7-16-15, 4:04pm
Identity is a funny thing, isn’t it? You’ve got this whole mashup of biological, psychological and cultural factors influencing gender identity. I’ve read that a surprising number of people claim Irish or Native American ancestry (honestly, I’m not referring to the Elizabeth Warrens and Ward Churchills of the world) that can’t be substantiated by genetic testing. I don’t know why those particular breeds would be more popular than others. There are any number of people claiming to be Holocaust survivors or combat veterans who were in fact not. People from some pretty comfortable backgrounds will insist they grew up poor. Nice suburban kids identify as jihadis. There are people out there who think of themselves as vampires.
The fluidity of it all is fascinating.
LDAHL:
You bring up some interesting points here. My mom is actually on the "Irish" identity train. I point out to her how there are zero Irish names in our family -- not one on either side. I mention how none of the grandparents on either side every talked about an Irish heritage. I debunk her assertion that there is an Irish heritage on every turn. And her response is: "In American virtually everyone is a little bit Irish." While I disagree with this I still ask her: "Then what difference does it make if everyone is Irish? That is like saying every student is above average." haha
My point of resolution with my mom, and with others who claim various identities, whether or not they are "real" is usually "What is the harm?"
If there is not harm, then I don't worry about it.
While I consider myself an ally to indigenous peoples throughout the world who want to live in their traditional ways I would never claim to be indigenous. I am just a regular ol' white dude from Ohio. haha
My point of resolution with my mom, and with others who claim various identities, whether or not they are "real" is usually "What is the harm?"
I self identify as the Duke of Abercrombie. If we ever meet at a party, I expect you to address me as M'Lord.
Oh, I've also decided to self identify as being 6'6" rather than my actual 5'11". Anyone refusing to look up in my presence is a hater.
My parents joined an all-Irish social club to party with my god-parents; fortunately, some genealogy research resulted in one Irish ancestor--a chap named Parker. So at least on my mother's side, they were legit.
Family legend had it we had some Native American blood (Grandfather was a jokester); DNA tests crushed that conceit.
I'm about as exotic as melba toast; the SO more than makes up for it.
IshbelRobertson
7-16-15, 5:10pm
I have nothing, in recordable evidence since the early 1500s, but Scots.
Interestingly in Scotland, it is still thought that Catholic bloodlines means you MUST have Irish ancestors. Nope, not this family!
My maternal grandfather was a Chicago Irishman who named his first son James and his first daughter Joyce. He used to tell us half our ancestors came here to escape British justice and the other half to escape Irish justice. He was of the opinion that consuming sufficient Bushmills or Jameson's conferred Hibernian ancestry.
I thought that was a healthy attitude, at least from the identity politics standpoint. I've got little patience for the thinking that your race or gender or some other characteristic meant you were required to vote a certain way or you were some sort of traitor; or that it created some sort of debt you either owed or were owed.
I always liked that scene from Casablanca where they asked Bogey his nationality, and he replied "I'm a drunkard".
The Irish lineage on my mother's side would be difficult to refute. At one time there was talk that some Native American DNA might have made its way into that line. The family first settled in Oklahoma long before it was classified as a reservation and has maintained that address ever since so it wasn't out of the question. However, when the stories of those early settlers were told it became obvious that Native American families discussing their rogue Irish forefather were more likely to be accurate.
In reference to Bernie's orgasm article, he's got plenty of company in the questionable choices department. Rand Paul had Aquabuddha, and Bobby Jindal performed at least one exorcism. And I wrote cheesy poetry, among other indiscretions. Let's hear it for maturity.
In reference to Bernie's orgasm article, he's got plenty of company in the questionable choices department. Rand Paul had Aquabuddha, and Bobby Jindal performed at least one exorcism. And I wrote cheesy poetry, among other indiscretions. Let's hear it for maturity.
And Hillary married Bill :-)
And Hillary married Bill :-)
There is that; bad boys can be irresistible. :devil:
iris lilies
7-16-15, 7:43pm
There is that; bad boys can be irresistible. :devil:
give me a break! He didn't even inhale. Bad boy?no credentials for that.
but i think Bill is likely pretty charming and charismatic IRL.
but i think Bill is likely pretty charming and charismatic IRL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alv7N6Ynm1Y
rodeosweetheart
7-17-15, 12:14am
I found out from the dna test that I am actually 20% Irish, and I never knew! So now I celebrate St. Patrick's Day.
ApatheticNoMore
7-17-15, 12:25am
I'm supposedly 1/8th Irish. It's not confirmed by DNA, but family history, Irish names in that family history, stories of relatives that came over in the potato famine years. Could be "black Irish" (ie spanish irish) if such a thing exists but noone knows if it does. But there's features (not so much of me as I'm pretty mutty, but family features) that would fit that.
Williamsmith
7-17-15, 6:00am
I am a direct descendant of George Washingtons body guard at Valley Forge. My wife's uncle discovered the North Pole. And I might be a little Irish too.
One of my ancestors is in the tales of Beowulf, Ammianus' Res Gestae, De origine actibusque Getarum, and others. He "ruled all the nations of Scythia and Germania as they were his own".
One of my ancestors is in the tales of Beowulf, Ammianus' Res Gestae, De origine actibusque Getarum, and others. He "ruled all the nations of Scythia and Germania as they were his own".
How do you go about verifying a claim like that?
So my Geneology Hall of Fame supposedly includes (if I am to believe what's in the records):
A man who made millions in real estate in the 20s and then ran out of town to escape his debts and a lot of angry people.
A man who died destitute and anonymous in a poorhouse/asylum
A woman who died in prison for being a witch during the Salem witch trials
An early English settler of Connecticut
A knight
Robert the Bruce
Kind of a motley crew
You can find entertaining stuff when you start exploring your family tree
And I scored Nicholas Noyes, pride of the Puritans. Lucky me
Catherine, I bet your relative--the "witch"--ran afoul of Noyes. At least he realized, too late, his error. I blame the Puritans for everything; no wonder they were run out of England.
catherine
7-17-15, 11:42am
And I scored Nicholas Noyes, pride of the Puritans. Lucky me
Catherine, I bet your relative--the "witch"--ran afoul of Noyes. At least he realized, too late, his error. I blame the Puritans for everything; no wonder they were run out of England.
Hey, Jane, we're "related" in a chronological and geopolitical sense:
Here is a Wikipedia entry in which your ancestor and mine (10th great-grandmother Ann Alcock Foster) are in the same article--so you are right in your assumption.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_of_the_Salem_witch_trials
And his Wikipedia entry disabused me of any warm and fuzzy notions about his being remorseful. I apologize for the self-righteous prig that was my ancestor.
catherine
7-17-15, 12:22pm
And his Wikipedia entry disabused me of any warm and fuzzy notions about his being remorseful. I apologize for the self-righteous prig that was my ancestor.
Clinging to faulty beliefs is not just his sin--he's no different than every one of us. No apologies. His karma has been paid in full by his descendants like you--the polar opposite of a self-righteous prig.
(Hmm.. is the statue of limitations expired on wrongful death? Maybe I could sue your family's estate on behalf of my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother!)
Science has become a tool used by the left to promote particular agendas and bash their opponents. If you believe that science is never settled (AGW), you're a denier, if you believe that a person's gender is a matter of chromosomes (XY or XX), you're a cretin. It's poetry in motion, they're blinding me with science.
Ahh the jig is up! You caught us...Yes science, and truth in general, IS a Liberal conspiracy.>8)
My wife's side includes a great-grandfather who shrewdly traded a few hundred acres in Orange County, CA for several thousand pristine acres in southern Idaho. A ranch that he later lost because there was no way to earn enough from the land to pay the taxes. That high level business acumen has, so far, been successfully passed to each succeeding generation.
...
(Hmm.. is the statue of limitations expired on wrongful death? Maybe I could sue your family's estate on behalf of my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother!)
Don't bother; we'll just claim religious freedom. :D
Ahh the jig is up! You caught us...Yes science, and truth in general, IS a Liberal conspiracy.>8)
Kind of off topic, but I saw this last week and was hoping for a segue to slip it in. Close enough.
1510
I'm repeating myself, but pure science is a rare bird. In reality it is influenced by fashion, politics, greed, and convention. Especially in medicine and nutrition. People have every right to be skeptical.
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21588069-scientific-research-has-changed-world-now-it-needs-change-itself-how-science-goes-wrong
I'm repeating myself, but pure science is a rare bird. In reality it is influenced by fashion, politics, greed, and convention. Especially in medicine and nutrition. People have every right to be skeptical.
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21588069-scientific-research-has-changed-world-now-it-needs-change-itself-how-science-goes-wrong
My experience is that people absolutely convinced that they can speak for "Science" (especially "settled Science") have achieved about the same level of jackassery as those who feel they can speak for "God".
ApatheticNoMore
7-17-15, 2:30pm
What I found amusing is that discussion of psychological theories (about psychosomatic causes of cervical cancer I guess - so early 20th century psychological theories probably, at that) was taken as some kind of discussion of science. It's humanities (easy to bash psychology, but really a very rich body of humanities thought for those who like it). At best a fraction of the more modern stuff is social science but even then really very far from science IMO. Psychosomatic medicine or whatever publication was quoted may well have one study that showed that, but so ...
What I found amusing is that discussion of psychological theories (about psychosomatic causes of cervical cancer I guess - so early 20th century psychological theories probably, at that) was taken as some kind of discussion of science. It's humanities (easy to bash psychology, but really a very rich body of humanities thought for those who like it). At best a fraction of the more modern stuff is social science but even then really very far from science IMO. Psychosomatic medicine or whatever publication was quoted may well have one study that showed that, but so ...
When I was in school, we used to make the distinction between the "hard" sciences and the "soft" sciences. I wonder if that would be politically correct today.
My experience is that people absolutely convinced that they can speak for "Science" (especially "settled Science") have achieved about the same level of jackassery as those who feel they can speak for "God".
Science is the new religion.
And I'm sorry about that because when it's used properly it is a most excellent tool. But like anything else, it's corruptible.
How do you go about verifying a claim like that?
My last name is not exactly "Smith" :-) About 1 in a million people in the USA have the same last name, and I know most of them.
My classical Germanic languages/Old English prof pointed me at the bunny trail when he saw my name on his class roster.
My last name is not exactly "Smith" :-) About 1 in a million people in the USA have the same last name, and I know most of them.
My classical Germanic languages/Old English prof pointed me at the bunny trail when he saw my name on his class roster.
But don't you need to assume that nobody in your line changed his name since the Fourth Century? How can you discount the possibility that some remote ancestor didn't decide to add a bit of barbaric luster to the family escutcheon?
But don't you need to assume that nobody in your line changed his name since the Fourth Century? How can you discount the possibility that some remote ancestor didn't decide to add a bit of barbaric luster to the family escutcheon?
After 1700 years or so, wouldn't that just make it all the more fun? Anyway, I'm starting to think that the only time humans will really celebrate their diversity may come after a few more centuries of inbreeding when we've lost our diversity. It will just be the North Koreans and the rest of us.
After 1700 years or so, wouldn't that just make it all the more fun? Anyway, I'm starting to think that the only time humans will really celebrate their diversity may come after a few more centuries of inbreeding when we've lost our diversity. It will just be the North Koreans and the rest of us.
I have a brother who likes answer the ethnicity question on forms as "mongrel".
freshstart
7-17-15, 5:39pm
And I'm sorry about that because when it's used properly it is a most excellent tool. But like anything else, it's corruptible.
I know medical science is corrupted by Big Pharma, the healthcare industry and the FDA, etc. However, after a 23 yr career as a nurse in many different settings, it is staggering to me, despite all the above, the changes that have eventually been implemented that saved lives, improved quality of life or made the process of dying immensely more comfortable. Much of American medical science is a mess and money talks but amazing things have still managed to become available to the public. They cost way too much for no reason than sheerly profit motive. But the CDC, the NIH and WHO, I trust in general when I read studies or new medical guidelines. Among doctors world wide (including here), Evidenced Based Practice is finally occurring. It's an evaluation of available studies and a very detailed look into how doctors are practicing the same techniques or treatments through out the world, what's working, what's not, and how do patient values fit in. And after going through copious amounts of data, best practice is determined, with the goal of this being the way everyone will practice. It is a fascinating movement and so far, I've seen no signs of corruption. I cannot do it justice:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_practice
Evidence based practice gives me hope, the same, most effective treatments should be being applied whether you are here or in another country. The issue of implementing this in 3rd world countries who lack the funds for this care, is a huge stumbling block. Ask your doc what they think about EBP, if they scoff or don't even know what it is, i would seriously consider finding a different doc. I wouldn't count science out just yet, you just need to know who is backing the study, results of other studies on the same thing and check the suggestions of best practice, EBP. To dismiss science as a 'religion", I can understand all the frustrations, but without real science we are doomed.
The thing about "evidence-based medicine" is I can see it becoming a lock-step system in which everyone is to practice and prescribe in the same way. Some evidence will be considered inferior, and doctors who are "mavericks" (IOW the innovators) will be blackballed. I hope I'm wrong.
If I ever need a doctor (and I sincerely hope I don't), I'll be looking for a functional medicine practitioner who will treat the cause of whatever's wrong with me, and not just fling drugs at my symptoms.
I don't dismiss the scientific method, but science is only as good as the ethics that underlie it. And I don't much believe in making a religion out of anything.
Ultralight
7-17-15, 5:56pm
Excellent video on a homeopathic emergency room in the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Worth watching, about 2 minutes, but it really opens your eyes!
I couldn't get anyone interested in buying my low-cost homeopathic automatic external defibrillators (AED). Bother.
My line of homeopathic birth control products also failed to take off in the market.
freshstart
7-17-15, 6:11pm
I couldn't get anyone interested in buying my low-cost homeopathic automatic external defibrillators (AED). Bother.
My line of homeopathic birth control products also failed to take off in the market.
shocking since sticking the word "homeopathic" in front of a product's name, doubles sales
Ultralight
7-17-15, 6:17pm
Imagine how much the costs are at a homeopathic ER! Astrological!
freshstart
7-17-15, 6:25pm
The thing about "evidence-based medicine" is I can see it becoming a lock-step system in which everyone is to practice and prescribe in the same way. Some evidence will be considered inferior, and doctors who are "mavericks" (IOW the innovators) will be blackballed. I hope I'm wrong.
If I ever need a doctor (and I sincerely hope I don't), I'll be looking for a functional medicine practitioner who will treat the cause of whatever's wrong with me, and not just fling drugs at my symptoms.
I don't dismiss the scientific method, but science is only as good as the ethics that underlie it. And I don't much believe in making a religion out of anything.
I hope you are right. The doctors i worked for knew what best practice was for the different cancers they treated. But you can't blindly follow it because every patient does not present the same, and best practice is inappropriate if it conflicts with a patient's history. It was a guideline, a tool to reference for them.
Doctor shopping isn't easy, especially to find one who listens and respects you, without flinging drugs at you because they are new and in vogue and he has 15 more patients to see so could you please move along?
freshstart
7-17-15, 6:57pm
Excellent video on a homeopathic emergency room in the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
"his chakras are fading!" lmao. In my hospice, we had a lot of older people who were New Age, believed in homeopathy and alternative medicine. Chaplains would tell the nurse some weird root was necessary, please have doctor call it in. Where exactly do they call in roots, the woods? And why does he need this root? "because his pain is unbearable and he is screaming." Screw the root and get out there with pain meds. Despite being pressured, I do not believe in homeopathy unless a patient does, then I will pay it enthusiastic lip service as long as there are no contraindications with prescribed meds.
As far as chakras and third eye, we even had some woman come in to tell us, if life isn't good, simply walk counterclockwise once in a circle to apparently reboot your system. We PAID a woman to teach us the value of walking in a circle. I believe in acupuncture and I semi-believe in Reiki and therapeutic touch, because if nothing else, it relaxes the patient. But therapeutic touch, how can that be real? Misnomer, no touch involved. You name it, we had an employee who knew all about whatever weird thing a patient wanted. And there is nothing wrong with that, I just do not believe in most of it for myself. My favorite was a chaplain who carried around a tuning fork. It was placed on the patient's head and the sounds it made meant something (meant something more than you are captive audience with a tuning fork on your head and you are too nice to say, "get the hell outta here!"). I'm sorry but I will never be a Tuning Fork practitioner, even if I got a full scholarship to Tuning Fork U and could minor in the magic of walking in a circle. Stupid shit, is stupid shit no matter your level of respect for alternative therapies. Oh, I forgot, the walk one time in a circle lady was also a believer in Thymus Thumping. A room full of smart, talented practitioners walking in a circle and then collectively thumping their thymuses for 20 min, is really funny but don't catch a friend's eye because you will start laughing til you pee. I don't think urine had any special powers.
Williamsmith
7-19-15, 5:23am
Trump opened his mouth again and blasphemed John McCain, whom everyone has agreed is a war hero. All except Trump. Now Trump should know a real war hero when he sees one. Trump was able to get multiple deferrments from the war including a physical disqualified. And I'll bet if you looked hard enough you'd find footage of Trump near where someone is burning a flag. But I digress.
I think Trump pretty much shot himself in the foot on that one. Yay!
freshstart
7-19-15, 6:37am
at the rate he's going, he is going to have no feet left. I liked Kerry's response: McCain is "a hero, a man of grit and guts and character personified. He served and bled and endured unspeakable acts of torture." no diatribe, addressed the essence of the issue without using party lines, IMHO. It's interesting to watch the GOP reaction, Cruz falling all over himself, refusing to denounce Trump but seemingly giving into the pressure of being his only defender, leading to a support of McCain tweet. Lindsey Graham, the one who brags that he has never sent an email in his life, apparently he's tech savvy now, he twittered McCain support. He's learning Match.com to somehow solve that pesky bachelor banter, as if this were relevant at all.
I know the Donald is nuts but I cannot figure out what his thought processes on this were, what purpose did it serve? Does he have some secret agenda or does he really have no filter and cannot be appropriate? I can see why he was a racist bigot last week while trying to address immigration, that drew tons of supporters. But what does this latest accomplish? I can't wait to see what he does next.
I know the Donald is nuts but I cannot figure out what his thought processes on this were, what purpose did it serve? Does he have some secret agenda or does he really have no filter and cannot be appropriate? I can see why he was a racist bigot last week while trying to address immigration, that drew tons of supporters. But what does this latest accomplish? I can't wait to see what he does next.
Maybe this article applies to Trump. When you look at what ceo's are expected to do, things like decide to close a factory and move all the jobs overseas without concern for the devastation that will be caused in the former factory town, it's probably not surprising that ceo's tend to have a higher than average likelihood of being psychopaths. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/14/why-some-psychopaths-make-great-ceos/
"But you do want lack of empathy, lack of remorse, glibness, superficial charm, manipulativeness."
The only think Trump's missing is superficial charm. We should all thank god or genetics or whatever for his lack of fake charm because that will probably be the reason he doesn't win the GOP nomination.
gg? from old SL days? Hey dude, I remember you. Welcome back.
Yes. kprp, right? Are you still selling plasma for cigarette money, or did you give that up 35 years ago? :-)
I really hope this McCain thing doesn't tank Trump's campaign. It has been a lot of fun. Granted, from my point of view his comment suggesting that a significant portion of undocumented workers are "rapists" was a lot worse. That was an ugly appeal to American's darker angels. The McCain shot was stupid for sure, but aimed at just one political rival and not a whole group of vulnerable peoples.
I guess some good can come from this. More mainstream Republicans really tick off Trump, and he runs third party and peels off a few percent of the vote from either Walker/Bush. But I doubt Trump would do that and embarrass himself with just a few percent of the vote.
freshstart
7-19-15, 8:08pm
I guess some good can come from this. More mainstream Republicans really tick off Trump, and he runs third party and peels off a few percent of the vote from either Walker/Bush. But I doubt Trump would do that and embarrass himself with just a few percent of the vote.
I was thinking this, I hope his vanity and desire to win will keep him in the race til the bitter end and steals GOP votes. However, if this is him just out of the gate, surely he is going to run out of crazy, I mean, he won points for the "rapists" remark but how can he sustain that in the long term?
I think Trump's whole campaign is simply a branding effort on his part, and that he has no intent of anything more than padding his own pockets.
iris lilies
7-19-15, 11:16pm
Yes. kprp, right? Are you still selling plasma for cigarette money, or did you give that up 35 years ago? :-)
haha, yep to all and it WAS 35 years to the day that I was in grad school, selling blood plasma for cigarettes and beer money.
We are in the sideshow phase of the campaign. We have Trump abandoning many previous positions to stake out the AM talk radio outrage niche, apparently to feed his own vanity. We have Sanders' peculiar mix of socialism and nationalism to being wielded to push Herself to the left of the standard Clinton triangulation. Whether either will retain enough support for Nader style point shaving remains to be seen.
haha, yep to all and it WAS 35 years to the day that I was in grad school, selling blood plasma for cigarettes and beer money.
Ha! I sold blood for meals at IHOP in my checkered youth.
Later, when I was earning more, I donated.
catherine
7-20-15, 11:07am
haha, yep to all and it WAS 35 years to the day that I was in grad school, selling blood plasma for cigarettes and beer money.
I had NO idea you were kprp!
I think Trump's whole campaign is simply a branding effort on his part, and that he has no intent of anything more than padding his own pockets.
Ding, ding, ding...I think we have the winner. Being Pres takes way too many hours away from the 'deal'. Besides, it doesn't pay nearly well enough to support Donald's lifestyle. Although the thought of running another grand old mansion that has been converted into a private club is probably appealing to him.
US politics is so much more entertaining than boring Canadian version although some are getting a little hyper here as well.
US politics is so much more entertaining than boring Canadian version although some are getting a little hyper here as well.
Two words: Rob Ford
iris lilies
7-20-15, 6:07pm
I had NO idea you were kprp!
Oh yeah? Ya wanna make something of that?!!!?
haha just kidding.
I like this Mr. Trump fellow more and more every day ...
Two words: Rob Ford
Yes, Rob Ford! We may have had Marion Barry smoking crack, or Jerry Springer writing a check to a prostitute when he was mayor, but Rob Ford is my favorite wild and crazy mayor.
I think Trump's whole campaign is simply a branding effort on his part, and that he has no intent of anything more than padding his own pockets.
I am sure Donald Trump knows a lot more about branding than I do, but it seems to be working out oddly for him. From what I understand about "Trump" it is high-end apartments, golf clubs, and office buildings. That is the business wing of the Republican party. They seem to now think he is a bit of a charlatan. It is the Birther/Bengazhi/Border wing that now adore him, which is more the miniature golf in Branson, MO crowd than the shooting 18 holes at a seaside resort crowd.
We are in the sideshow phase of the campaign. We have Trump abandoning many previous positions to stake out the AM talk radio outrage niche, apparently to feed his own vanity. We have Sanders' peculiar mix of socialism and nationalism to being wielded to push Herself to the left of the standard Clinton triangulation. Whether either will retain enough support for Nader style point shaving remains to be seen.
What makes you see nationalism in Bernie Sanders?
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-15, 1:19am
And what's wrong with nationalism? Ok I know what can go wrong with nationalism if it's used as an excuse to conquer the world. But I bet Greece could do with a bit of "nationalism" now as in ability to have any say of the policies of their country, instead of having given it all up.
And what's wrong with nationalism? Ok I know what can go wrong with nationalism if it's used as an excuse to conquer the world. But I bet Greece could do with a bit of "nationalism" now as in ability to have any say of the policies of their country, instead of having given it all up.
It is not always the same thing t be a good citizen and a good man -- Plato in Nicomachean Ethics
What makes you see nationalism in Bernie Sanders?
The endless xenophobic railing about the Chinese and Mexicans stealing "our jobs".
The endless xenophobic railing about the Chinese and Mexicans stealing "our jobs".
I've not heard a lot of that from Sanders (or at least less than from some of the other usual suspects), but no matter who's lips it rolls off of the whole 'stolen jobs' meme is a somewhat bizarre political path. I guess it appeals to nostalgic voters who would love to return to our Leave It To Beaver days, but in the harsh light of day I don't know why we would want most of the jobs that moved off shore back.
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-15, 11:39am
Mostly because they are better for many people than NO jobs, until we get a guaranteed income or something.
Besides it never was right to offshore a bunch of dirty polluting jobs, so that we take the products they produce and they deal with the pollution. It's screwed up. I mean it's definitely being on the advantageous side of things (if you still have a job), but one can hardly say it's right now, can they? If something is not worth the bad working conditions, pollution etc. from those who benefit from the work and the product, then maybe it's not worth doing.
The endless xenophobic railing about the Chinese and Mexicans stealing "our jobs".
Those jobs weren't stolen. We gave them away.
Those jobs weren't stolen. We gave them away.
I think we forced them away. In this country we seem to think of business as a public service, something to feed the government beast and provide for as many workers as possible, and it shows in the government's treatment of them through taxation and regulation.
Realistically, it is often in a company's best interest to locate elsewhere. We could change that, but we don't have the will to do so.
Those jobs weren't stolen. We gave them away.
Actually they were sold to the lowest bidder.
freshstart
7-21-15, 11:55pm
I think about the clamor over Mexicans and others coming here and "taking" our jobs. i am not bothering to look up the data now, but I don't think there were many Americans displaced from migrant farm work or motel housekeeping because of illegal immigration. How long can we really have it both ways- profit from them doing the work we don't want to do at the lowest possible price vs how much they cost the country? Undocumented workers are 5% of the workforce, I would like someone to predict how this would affect unemployment if the workers were deported. 5000 American children are in foster care because their parents were deported or detained. There is supposed to be a practice of reunification with the parents first, this is difficult, time consuming and expensive, so many get placed in adoptive families. Are we really ok with this? never mind, rambling with no valid conclusion, lol
I think we forced them away. ...
Realistically, it is often in a company's best interest to locate elsewhere.
At my last "corporate" gig, I opened up several R&D facilities in foreign countries. Not so much for the cheap labor or for the ability to hang the workers over shark tanks to motivate them, but because we could not get the very specialized engineers and scientists we needed here in the US - the supply was too small, and you can't grow new ones overnight, though we had extensive university programs to identify/train/recruit people to the field. US immigration policy and procedures were too painful to be able to import the talent we wanted. So we eventually gave up and opened sites outside the US, though many of the researchers would have loved to have come to the US and worked for us here.
At my last "corporate" gig, I opened up several R&D facilities in foreign countries. Not so much for the cheap labor or for the ability to hang the workers over shark tanks to motivate them, but because we could not get the very specialized engineers and scientists we needed here in the US - the supply was too small, and you can't grow new ones overnight, though we had extensive university programs to identify/train/recruit people to the field. US immigration policy and procedures were too painful to be able to import the talent we wanted. So we eventually gave up and opened sites outside the US, though many of the researchers would have loved to have come to the US and worked for us here.
I don't think this has anything to do with the "The endless xenophobic railing about the Chinese and Mexicans stealing "our jobs". " that LDAHL was attributing to Sanders.
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