Excited about new income stream!

[gimmethesimplelife]

Here's some good news I've been meaning to share - I am breaking into doing video shops with miniature video equipment. These shops pay much better than the mystery shops I am used to doing - case in point, my first one is of a dental office in an upscale suburb. It pays $50 to give an example and is really not that hard - I just have to remember to stick to my backstory and not mess with the video equipment in any way. I'm even liking the basic framework of this shop as you have to take it to the moment of closing the sale for some dental work to be done and then raise an objection and back out. I even spoke with the Mystery Shopping Company and the client is OK with my using as a reason to rethink any dental work suggested that I want to run it by my primary dentist in Mexico. I made sure the client was OK with this as I've used that reason on this side of the border before and it has been entertaining in a way but has not gone over very well lol.

I'm hoping this shop goes well as I'd like to do more such shops for other companies - I don't have the equipment at the moment but this mystery shopping company is sending me a loaner and I'm glad for that so I can scale the learning curve. We'll see how it goes. Rob

[herbgeek]

Is this even legal, filming people without their knowledge or consent?

[bae]

Have all parties to these video recordings consented?

[bae]

Is this even legal, filming people without their knowledge or consent?

Depends very much on the state, and the circumstances. If I recall, Arizona is a 1-party consent state, but it's still pretty skeevy, and in a medical office where there is an expectation of privacy there may be some issues.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Is this even legal, filming people without their knowledge or consent?In Arizona, yes. Arizona is a one party consent state. Not all states are, though, and this can get sticky in two party consent states such as I believe California is. Personally, I would not mess with this in a two party consent state (which is just what it sounds like, both parties must consent to the taping for it to be legal). Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Have all parties to these video recordings consented?In Arizona there is no need for both parties to consent as it is a one party consent state - google if you are interested, there is a long list of states other than Arizona that are also one party consent states. I am entirely in the clear taping in this way in Arizona. I would also not mess with this in a two party consent state - no way! Rob

[bae]

In Arizona there is no need for both parties to consent as it is a one party consent state ...

How do you feel about the moral implications of what you are doing?

How do you handle the case of violating some unsuspecting 3rd party's privacy who might be in the waiting room or the examination rooms you pass by? Or the case of someone talking on the phone to someone else who is out-of-state when you make the recording of the encounter?

It's pretty skeevy, Rob.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Bae - I came back to add - I googled because I was curious and it turns out that Washington is a two party consent state. Meaning that I would steer clear of such shops in Washington State. There are some folks on a mystery shopping board I belong to that do these shops in California but my instinct in a two party state is to avoid and run as fast as I can. Others can take that risk if they so desire in a two party consent state.....Rob

[bae]

Others can take that risk if they so desire in a two party consent state.....Rob

By "risk" you mean "violating the law, and the privacy of others"?

[gimmethesimplelife]

How do you feel about the moral implications of what you are doing?

How do you handle the case of violating some unsuspecting 3rd party's privacy who might be in the waiting room or the examination rooms you pass by? Or the case of someone talking on the phone to someone else who is out-of-state when you make the recording of the encounter?

It's pretty skeevy, Rob.The employees at this dental office also sign consent at some point in their hiring process to the effect that they understand that filmed mystery shopping on some kind of regular basis will be taking place, so it's not as if they don't know such is going to happen at some point. Personally, as an employee I would not consent - in the sense that I would not work in such a place - that's me making a choice and voting no way with my feet. For others willing to participate - these shops are going to take place whether or not I do them, why not make the $50? If the employees are following their script they don't really have anything to worry about, anyway - though I will once again here state that I personally would not be comfortable with being filmed. On the other hand, with the advent of smart phones and youtube, it really does seem that we are all vulnerable to this now, like it or not.....Go find some shocked police officers all across America who are being forced to adjust to any of their behavior being taped and downloaded to youtube.

As to folks in the waiting room, supposedly their images are blotted out by the mystery shopping company, though this is what they say, I don't know how good the follow up here is. Skeevy? I don't know. It's not exactly something to be proud of per se, I would agree with that, but I also believe the fact that it is legal in much of the United States might be a reason for you to not question me but rather turn those questions loose on America and question why is this legal here (in parts) if it makes you so uncomfortable? Rob

[sweetana3]

I just want to add my feelings that this video shopping is creepy and underhanded. I dont care if buried somewhere there might be something about being spyed upon by third parties or whether it is technically legal in your state.

I am fine if the camera is in clear view, like with police cameras, but not hidden. I can see a phone device also when someone is pointing it at me and I understand that at someplace like a bank, police station or such there are cameras for security.

just my own 2 cents and all it is worth.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just want to add my feelings that this video shopping is creepy and underhanded. I dont care if buried somewhere there might be something about being spyed upon by third parties or whether it is technically legal in your state.

I am fine if the camera is in clear view, like with police cameras, but not hidden. I can see a phone device also when someone is pointing it at me and I understand that at someplace like a bank, police station or such there are cameras for security.

just my own 2 cents and all it is worth.I would not completely disagree with you that this type of video shopping is underhanded. And maybe even a tad bit creepy. I think where my issue is, is I'd hold the company and the country responsible - America for allowing this to be legal in the 38 states that are one party consent states, and also the companies using video shopping for whatever reason. Taking your issues to those with the power to have allowed this to happen in the first place might yield better results, don't you think? At my level I'm only trying to survive turbo charged capitalism - something i never approved of nor signed up for in the first place. And I understand also that you are not attacking me here, sweetana3 - as you said, you are just stating your 2 cents. As am I. I even agree with your stance to some degree that this is creepy and underhanded - what i have a huge problem with though is that many people are OK with my being forced to flee to Mexico for health care but this, which strikes me as many, many, many notches down the survival pole - is such an issue? I don't get it, i just don't. At any rate i have covered myself by doing the due dilligence to make sure I'm legally safe doing this. Rob

[bae]

I would not completely disagree with you that this type of video shopping is underhanded. And maybe even a tad bit creepy. I think where my issue is, is I'd hold the company and the country responsible -...

... and not hold *yourself* responsible, Rob, even though you are the fellow who is *doing* the filming and violating the privacy of others, for a few dollars in his own pocket. Sorry, not gonna fly.

You know, there are a lot of things that are legal in this country, because our legal system isn't generally set up to enforce manners and civil behavior. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.

[gimmethesimplelife]

... and not hold *yourself* responsible, Rob, even though you are the fellow who is *doing* the filming and violating the privacy of others, for a few dollars in his own pocket. Sorry, not gonna fly.

You know, there are a lot of things that are legal in this country, because our legal system isn't generally set up to enforce manners and civil behavior. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.Happy 4th Bae. I'm ducking out of this thread here and now as this is not going to go good places if i stay. I'll just agree to disagree with you and move on. Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

The way I see it everything is filmed these days, there's a camera on every decent sized street corner and then some (and people really think filming without consent isn't legal? although it's not done by individuals in that case so maybe different rules apply). At least it's not a job with the TSA, working the porno scanners.

Though refusing to take a job where you could ever stand a chance of being filmed seems to me about like officially declaring themselves unemployable. Because yea, there's cameras everywhere, even if they are *only* at the entry to the office, that's every time you walk in and out and that's if your lucky.

[Alan]

The way I see it everything is filmed these days, there's a camera on every decent sized street corner and then some (and people really think filming without consent isn't legal? although it's not done by individuals in that case so maybe different rules apply). At least it's not a job with the TSA, working the porno scanners.

Though refusing to take a job where you could ever stand a chance of being filmed seems to me about like officially declaring themselves unemployable. Because yea, there's cameras everywhere, even if they are *only* at the entry to the office, that's every time you walk in and out and that's if your lucky.
What Rob is doing is a different animal altogether. He will be secretly taping audio and video as he interacts with people. I run nearly a hundred video cameras at my place of employment, no audio and no infringement into personal space, no covert camera and no recording of personal interactions. Going that far is a violation of individual privacy, plus the entire interaction is designed to ferret out individuals having a bad day in order to take action against them. It's not necessarily illegal, maybe not even unethical, but it is a creepy thing to do. If I found someone secretly taping me, I'd escort their ass off the property post-haste after making sure they knew they'd be charged with trespassing if they returned.

[Valley]

Rob, I'm not judging you but I'm very surprised to read that you're willing to be a party to this type of operation. Yes, this is a free country and it is legal. But, when you try to justify if by connecting it to running to Mexico for health care, you lose me completely. Something is right or wrong on its own...it doesn't have to be justified by comparing it to a greater wrong.

This job seems to go against your basic values in life.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, I'm not judging you but I'm very surprised to read that you're willing to be a party to this type of operation. Yes, this is a free country and it is legal. But, when you try to justify if by connecting it to running to Mexico for health care, you lose me completely. Something is right or wrong on its own...it doesn't have to be justified by comparing it to a greater wrong.

This job seems to go against your basic values in life.I'm really surprised by some of the responses this thread has received, and i am very intrigued by yours especially. i mean no self defensiveness here - i really don't - especially as your post here is so reasonable. So - I hope this does not put you on the spot - if it does, please feel free to not answer, ok? Nothing wrong with choosing not to respond. I'm just curious as to how video shopping goes against my life values? Since your post has been so reasonable, you may very well make me think......Rob

[Valley]

I think I'm surprised by your decision to be part of this type of "mystery shopper", because you've always seemed to be against government/organizations prying into personal lives. You've tried hard to keep yourself somewhat private and even seemed a bit uncomfortable in the process of applying for health care and giving so much information about yourself. It just seems that secret recording of someone is just not your style. I realize that it's legal in your state...I'm just confused that it doesn't make you a little uncomfortable.

[gimmethesimplelife]

What Rob is doing is a different animal altogether. He will be secretly taping audio and video as he interacts with people. I run nearly a hundred video cameras at my place of employment, no audio and no infringement into personal space, no covert camera and no recording of personal interactions. Going that far is a violation of individual privacy, plus the entire interaction is designed to ferret out individuals having a bad day in order to take action against them. It's not necessarily illegal, maybe not even unethical, but it is a creepy thing to do. If I found someone secretly taping me, I'd escort their ass off the property post-haste after making sure they knew they'd be charged with trespassing if they returned.If I remember correctly, you are self employed, correct? In that case, I'd say if you were against being video taped you would skate by with no legal consequences for escorting someone away from videotaping you. If you worked for corporate America, however - Ouch. Quite likely termination for not allowing yourself to be videoed as per corporate policy. And depending on how you handled the escorting - and any comments made during this process - potential litigation there for at least the company you represent. All well and good if you are self employed, but in the corporate world such refusal is not going to work well for you.....Rob

Came back to add that mostly, you would only have to deal with this in the corporate world anyway.....this is the kind of situation in which you are going to be vulnerable to video mystery shopping, and then usually only in a few industries. Dental/medical offices are big, as are apartment shops and some mortgage shops. Shops that take a long time such as acting as if you have wealth for an investment adviser - I've always enjoyed these shops as it's a real chance for me to play a part and I have yet to be called out as a mystery shopper, meaning people must be buying it - anyway, these shops too are more and more likely to be videotaped these days. Quick and easy shops like the one I will be doing tomorrow at Coach don't get videotaped - the amount of data needed can be easily had from having a shopper do a traditional shop.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think I'm surprised by your decision to be part of this type of "mystery shopper", because you've always seemed to be against government/organizations prying into personal lives. You've tried hard to keep yourself somewhat private and even seemed a bit uncomfortable in the process of applying for health care and giving so much information about yourself. It just seems that secret recording of someone is just not your style. I realize that it's legal in your state...I'm just confused that it doesn't make you a little uncomfortable.Honestly? I'm not especially comfortable with it. There are shops I have found to be very verbally intrusive to the point where I flaked a couple of times (means didn't go through with a shop) towards the last minute, which is inexcusable in this business. One was a mortgage shop and one was an apartment shop - the latter really seemed as if I was trying to trip someone up after I looked at the questions/interactions that were expected of me and i just couldn't go through with it. I did look over the questions on this shop here with the video and to me they seemed reasonable and non excessive, and this shop does not obvious seem to be about thinning the herd/denying raises/promotions. But the video aspect of it I'm not entirely down with no.....BUT on the other hand, it does seem an extension of everyday life, does it not? One of my basic bits of life advice for one and all here has been to always have a cellphone with video capability yada yada yada, I won't repeat why again - and this is advice that I do religiously follow to protect myself. This type of video capability is not pleasant or kind or nice - it is all about protecting myself from the realities of American police. I am having a bit of a challenge seeing how this video shop is all that much different but I guess one could argue that the equipment is hidden and it is, so that much is different. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, I'm not judging you but I'm very surprised to read that you're willing to be a party to this type of operation. Yes, this is a free country and it is legal. But, when you try to justify if by connecting it to running to Mexico for health care, you lose me completely. Something is right or wrong on its own...it doesn't have to be justified by comparing it to a greater wrong.

This job seems to go against your basic values in life.The bit about bringing Mexico and the need to cross the border for healthcare into the mix? I'll explain. To me personally it is completely unforgivable that I should have had to cross the border into Mexico as my life was not worth health care in the US. I have nothing but moral outrage in regards to this - to me this is instant lifetime disengagement at any deep level from America - that's what this has earned in my case. So the point here is that to me this is extremely serious - but it seems to be perfectly acceptable to various posters here.

Moving along, to tie this into video mystery shopping - there seems to be a slight bit of controversy, questioning of ethics, even questioning of legality, and a sense that some here find this underhanded and creepy - to quote an earlier post. To me, while I am not stating that other folks takes are not valid, this topic is much, much, much less serious than not being worth health care in your home country. It is once again that lack of sense of proportion I so often run into in the United States - I can see why people might question video mystery shopping and not be comfortable with the concept but HELLO.....seriously? This is a more important issue than being forced to cross a border for health care so that the wealthy can stay that way?

What I am getting at is sense of proportion here. Rob

[dmc]

I guess some question why you continually think others should pay for your healthcare. If it was so important to you, why didn't you take care of it yourself. You have had what, 35 years or so to get a job that would earn enough to either include healthcare, or buy on your own. You continually blame America, when are you going to take responsibility for your own care?

I find it interesting how you justify things. Does your whole life revolve around your terror of the police and health care?

[JaneV2.0]

Yes electronic-enhanced mystery shopping is kind of creepy, but it's certainly inevitable--unless corporations protest--because the technology is there. I'm not sure there's a big moral issue here, because the notion of any kind of privacy in today's world is laughable.

Rob, you should know by now that anything you say can and will be used against you in the SLN court of public opinion/self-righteousness, so unless you enjoy being the forum pinata, you should limit your discussions to the weather and maybe your garden. Just a suggestion. Thank me. (Whatever happened to Packy, anyway? I did so want to regale him with tales of my eatcation...)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'm not sure I see the extreme moral issue either, especially as having moral issues with doing a job is seldom accepted. We have spy planes and cameras that see through clothes in this world we live in. There's places I've heard employees have complained about being watched by store cameras all the time while working the store check out etc. (I don't know to what extent this is true, I feel bad for them if it is!). I guess I can liken it to extremely creepy things, having a camera in the sidewalk looking up women's dresses, that would be creepy, right? Oh yea. And I would refuse the porno scanners if I was flying internationally (I'd let them feel me up and take apart my shoes or something). I guess catching random people at the doctors office on film is a bit creepy (the front desk or other staff shrug). I suppose businesses mystery shopping their own employees is creepy in a way only it's established practice.

I think jobs can often be morally thorny if you analyze them to death (nah present job is usually just stupid and boring really). What if your job is looking at those scanners for the TSA? What if you go work for a plastic bag manufacturer or those plastic things around soda cans, and you know plastic bags and those are floating on the ocean in massive islands of junk? What if your job is to outsource jobs to Chinese slave labor? What if etc.. Hmm well, have your own compass, is all I can say, I do, as best I can. To have any standards at all is counter cultural in a way, as outwardly the world only respects those with the most wealth, and if you haven't optimized that well that's your own fault the world says. Now there may be a thousand reasons one hasn't optimized wealth, not all due to one being ever so morally superior, some due to simply having other priorities in life, some due to luck, some due to lack of knowledge, some due to one's very real personality flaws, but occasionally it is because one has refused to take a job that seems too shady. But the world doesn't outwardly see that or easily forgive that if one doesn't have the doe ray me. (the world asks: uh why are you still unemployed again? etc.) Yea well, shrug.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Yes electronic-enhanced mystery shopping is kind of creepy, but it's certainly inevitable--unless corporations protest--because the technology is there. I'm not sure there's a big moral issue here, because the notion of any kind of privacy in today's world is laughable.

Rob, you should know by now that anything you say can and will be used against you in the SLN court of public opinion/self-righteousness, so unless you enjoy being the forum pinata, you should limit your discussions to the weather and maybe your garden. Just a suggestion. Thank me. (Whatever happened to Packy, anyway? I did so want to regale him with tales of my eatcation...)You have a point, Jane....it does seem sometimes that anything I say can and will be used against me. Interesting thing is that i don't find that anywhere near as offensive as I once would have. I think years of waiting tables and being constantly vulnerable to the general public has really thickened my skin and I don't know that that's a bad thing overall. But i really don't need to be the forum pinata - who gets anything out of that, really? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I'm not sure I see the extreme moral issue either, especially as having moral issues with doing a job is seldom accepted. We have spy planes and cameras that see through clothes in this world we live in. There's places I've heard employees have complained about being watched by store cameras all the time while working the store check out etc. (I don't know to what extent this is true, I feel bad for them if it is!). I guess I can liken it to extremely creepy things, having a camera in the sidewalk looking up women's dresses, that would be creepy, right? Oh yea. And I would refuse the porno scanners if I was flying internationally (I'd let them feel me up and take apart my shoes or something). I guess catching random people at the doctors office on film is a bit creepy (the front desk or other staff shrug). I suppose businesses mystery shopping their own employees is creepy in a way only it's established practice.

I think jobs can often be morally thorny if you analyze them to death (nah present job is usually just stupid and boring really). What if your job is looking at those scanners for the TSA? What if you go work for a plastic bag manufacturer or those plastic things around soda cans, and you know plastic bags and those are floating on the ocean in massive islands of junk? What if your job is to outsource jobs to Chinese slave labor? What if etc.. Hmm well, have your own compass, is all I can say, I do, as best I can. To have any standards at all is counter cultural in a way, as outwardly the world only respects those with the most wealth, and if you haven't optimized that well that's your own fault the world says. Now there may be a thousand reasons one hasn't optimized wealth, not all due to one being ever so morally superior, some due to simply having other priorities in life, some due to luck, some due to lack of knowledge, some due to one's very real personality flaws, but occasionally it is because one has refused to take a job that seems too shady. But the world doesn't outwardly see that or easily forgive that if one doesn't have the doe ray me. (the world asks: uh why are you still unemployed again? etc.) Yea well, shrug.I couldn't agree with your second paragraph about the realities of the world more.....I'd say you hit the nail right on the head. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

You have a point, Jane....it does seem sometimes that anything I say can and will be used against me. Interesting thing is that i don't find that anywhere near as offensive as I once would have. I think years of waiting tables and being constantly vulnerable to the general public has really thickened my skin and I don't know that that's a bad thing overall. But i really don't need to be the forum pinata - who gets anything out of that, really? Rob

easy solution is to not mention over and over your hate and distrust for the U.S. And Police regardless of the subject. As my grandkids say, easy peasy lemon squeasy.

[bae]

Rob,

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/lessons-from-the-stasi/

[Tradd]

The employees at this dental office also sign consent at some point in their hiring process to the effect that they understand that filmed mystery shopping on some kind of regular basis will be taking place, so it's not as if they don't know such is going to happen at some point. Personally, as an employee I would not consent - in the sense that I would not work in such a place - that's me making a choice and voting no way with my feet.

I have no words.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have no words.With all due respect Tradd, I'm not following you either. It is made clear to these employees that working there equals vulnerability to video shops. I choose no to such a situation....and not all dental offices locally video shop. These folks walk in knowing this vulnerability...I would personally not accept this however, but that's my choice. Not following you, sorry. But glad you had a nice holiday.

[Teacher Terry]

I don't think it is a big moral dilemma either. The employees agree to it & it is not like clients are being videotaped without their knowledge. They are taping mystery shoppers unless I am wrong.

[ToomuchStuff]

There has been a big push in this state to get the on the body camera's issued and mandatory for police. Besides that, there has been pushing both directions for access to the video (I think I heard the state was saying they didn't have to release it and the press, pushing for complete free access).
After a few discussions with a local LEO I know, some of the issues that we discussed that are involved (and why the police are pushing against it)
Multiple privacy issues, this covers from when a cop goes to the restroom, unlawful wiretapping (what happens if it hears a conversation an officer is having on the phone, what if it is his kid), to what happens when one of the parties (suspect or victim) is a juvenile? What happens if it is a rape victim?
What about civil liability for commercial theft (cop goes into a theater with camera on, who pays for the copyright violation?) Don't laugh, there have been arrests for Google glasses, that weren't on.
Just the regular old wiretapping issue (not on public property, catching conversations, say a cop is in a restaurant eating and catches a conversation from the next table). There are differences in law between recording on a public street and on private property and video is not the same as audio recording (check with a lawyer, make sure or don't have a working microphone) This is why you have camera's in store for security, but they don't have audio.
That doesn't cover some other issues the LEO brought up (informants and undercover officers).

[jp1]

My concern with this would be the possibility of inadvertantly recording healthcare information. HIPAA an the Hitech Act are very specific about how medical providers and their business associates (BA's are any business that the healthcare provider has contracted with who has access to protected healthcare info) have to protect healthcare information and under what circumstances it can or can't be shared. Since this is a dental office there is certainly the off chance that you may record the dentist or hygenist, or the receptionist when he/she is scheduling a follow-up appointment with a client) discussing a condition with a patient. It may be unlikely, but the possibility that I, as the mystery video shopper, might get roped into a situation where a patient is claiming violation of their privacy, as afforded by these laws, would make me very hesitant.

[freshstart]

I was thinking this as well. HIPAA violations started out the institution was reprimanded and fined but over the years, they've gone right down to the person who committed the violation and they can be charged. Not worth the risk, to me

[jp1]

Yes, freshstart, HIPAA now isn't just about $1M penalties for entities like Alaska Medicaid. Now we're seeing the Office of Civil Rights go after much smaller places, like a one location pharmacy in Denver that got a $125,000 penalty for putting 1,610 patient records in the dumpster unshredded. And the HiTech Act has, among other things, basically deputized state attorney generals to assist in the rooting out of HIPAA violators. Even things as minor as mistakenly faxing a single person's medical file to a wrong number are taken seriously and investigated. In my professional life I work in data security insurance. Some of the claims we've had to deal with from our insureds are pretty remarkable in how quickly a seemingly small situation became very serious.

[rodeosweetheart]

My understanding of these shops, since I too get mystery shopping offers because I have done non videotaped ones in past for restaurants and stores, is that the mystery shopper is the supposed patient, and goes in and "shops" medical care. I.e. sets up an appointment and rates how they do that. He is not in there taping other people. (I never taped anything, nor would I, just not comfortable with that.)

So the taping is not of patients, but rather of the staff in how they handle his requests. I think I have that right.

What made me run from this kind of thing is that you are using your own real information to request these services--no way would I falsify a request for medical care, ever. Too much "the boy who cried wolf." With severe asthma, I have been a frequent flyer at the ER at various times in my life (not lately, thank God) and there is no way I would misrepresent myself or what I need to the people who provide medical care of any kind. It seems like a really bad idea, and it seems like you would be opening yourself up to identity theft, being labeled as a "liar" to the medical community, etc. Someone in good faith tries to help me, and I, in bad faith, rat them out because they did not say quite the right thing off the script? Not cool.

(And I know, I know, they sign up for these services, so it's no surprise. But what about the well-intentioned nurse who is answering your questions, taking her or his time away from real patients?)

Anyway, that is my reaction to medical mystery shopping. Did not realize they were taped! If I were a patient and some camera carrying mystery shopper came into the waiting room, you better believe I would leave.

Personally, I would apply the Kantian principle of universality and stop doing any mystery shops where people are taped without their knowledge.

[iris lilies]

My understanding of these shops, since I too get mystery shopping offers because I have done non videotaped ones in past for restaurants and stores, is that the mystery shopper is the supposed patient, and goes in and "shops" medical care. I.e. sets up an appointment and rates how they do that. He is not in there taping other people. (I never taped anything, nor would I, just not comfortable with that.)

So the taping is not of patients, but rather of the staff in how they handle his requests. I think I have that right.

What made me run from this kind of thing is that you are using your own real information to request these services--no way would I falsify a request for medical care, ever. Too much "the boy who cried wolf." With severe asthma, I have been a frequent flyer at the ER at various times in my life (not lately, thank God) and there is no way I would misrepresent myself or what I need to the people who provide medical care of any kind. It seems like a really bad idea, and it seems like you would be opening yourself up to identity theft, being labeled as a "liar" to the medical community, etc. Someone in good faith tries to help me, and I, in bad faith, rat them out because they did not say quite the right thing off the script? Not cool.

(And I know, I know, they sign up for these services, so it's no surprise. But what about the well-intentioned nurse who is answering your questions, taking her or his time away from real patients?)

Anyway, that is my reaction to medical mystery shopping. Did not realize they were taped! If I were a patient and some camera carrying mystery shopper came into the waiting room, you better believe I would leave.

Personally, I would apply the Kantian principle of universality and stop doing any mystery shops where people are taped without their knowledge.

You've elucidated what bugs me about this scenario and I was unable to put my finger on. It's not the videotaping that bugs me so much, it's the lying. Liar for hire, that's this job. A professional liar.

Taking up time of professional health care providers by feeding them untruths IS sleazy. But then, this may be a dental clinic that's in the business of hard selling services, so perhaps they are deserving of being identified with retail outfits less than client services like health care. It's a short con job on both sides.

[Ultralight]

We live in a post-privacy society.

[jp1]

Who exactly is hiring the mystery shopper?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Who exactly is hiring the mystery shopper?Someone doing this shop is hired by the mystery shopper company that has the contract the client (in this case the chain of dental clinics) signed to have these shops done. In the capacity as mystery shopper, the mystery shopper is an IC and not an employee.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Just wanted to say I've liked these posts past the Rob as Forum Pinata posts and the posts regarding HIPAA have made me do some thinking. I am going to email the mystery shopping company with some concerns I have regarding HIPAA and see how they respond. Interestingly enough today when I arrived home from working downtown doing banquet set up, there was the video equipment waiting for me, sent by UPS. It looks like I'll be doing this shop but I do have some HIPAA concerns. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You've elucidated what bugs me about this scenario and I was unable to put my finger on. It's not the videotaping that bugs me so much, it's the lying. Liar for hire, that's this job. A professional liar.

Taking up time of professional health care providers by feeding them untruths IS sleazy. But then, this may be a dental clinic that's in the business of hard selling services, so perhaps they are deserving of being identified with retail outfits less than client services like health care. It's a short con job on both sides.IL, honestly, and no sarcasm at all here - to mystery shop is in essence to play a role and to tell lies to find out what the client wants to know. Did the employee greet you within 30 seconds, did they upsell, did they mention the score credit card - these are just some examples. If you have any acting ability or illusions thereof (I'm the latter) this can be a very good fit for you - if you realize you are playing a part and if you are honest in the sense of accurately filling out your reports. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

Who exactly is hiring the mystery shopper?


You know, that is actually a VERY interesting question. I know of one case for sure, where corporations hire some to mystery shop their competitor. (in that case, they may obfuscate the fact they do it from those doing it)

[iris lilies]

IL, honestly, and no sarcasm at all here - to mystery shop is in essence to play a role and to tell lies to find out what the client wants to know. Did the employee greet you within 30 seconds, did they upsell, did they mention the score credit card - these are just some examples. If you have any acting ability or illusions thereof (I'm the latter) this can be a very good fit for you - if you realize you are playing a part and if you are honest in the sense of accurately filling out your reports. Rob


Haha, well, ok. I can kinda see that. It just seems to me that the dental shop gig takes it all to another level.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You know, that is actually a VERY interesting question. I know of one case for sure, where corporations hire some to mystery shop their competitor. (in that case, they may obfuscate the fact they do it from those doing it)These are called competitor shops and some of them, such as airline competitor shops, are very hard to get. Some retailers do them too. Rob

[befree]

agree that rodeosweetheart said it best - this is a health care office with patients, not a local pizzaria or flower shop. Just because you can get away with something because it's not illegal (yet), doesn't mean it's right to do.

[jp1]

Just wanted to say I've liked these posts past the Rob as Forum Pinata posts

I think pinatas are highly underrated. After all, everyone loves them and they're full of yummy treats! Of course they do get beaten to death at the end so I guess there is a negative side there... :-)

[LDAHL]

Combining shopping, lying, snitching and dental offices doesn't sound like a fun day to me.

But then, I count beans for a living so what do I know?

[catherine]

DH and I sometimes watch a reality show called Mystery Diners where it's like Rob's job on steroids. They set up a HUGE entrapment operation. Basically, a restauranteur realizes he's losing money or some other problem and can't put his finger on the source, so he asks the Mystery Diner to come in--they set up gazillion cameras and hire fake waitresses and fake patrons and just do a big sting operation, watching everything from a remote location.

Then you watch the unsuspecting barkeeps and waitresses get busted for lying, giving away the store, comping their friends, whatever. Privacy issues notwithstanding, I think it must be a relief for the owner to be able to identify the bad apples.

[bae]

Combining shopping, lying, snitching and dental offices doesn't sound like a fun day to me.

But then, I count beans for a living so what do I know?

Is it safe?

http://www.the-solute.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/marathon-man-1976-04-g.jpg

[jp1]

Of course the reality is that most (at least many) of us have signed documents when we started our jobs stating that we shouldn't have any expectation of privacy in the workplace or with the technology provided to us to do our jobs. Some businesses (trucking companies that put GPS systems in their trucks to track them for instance) are more consistent with their surveilance. Most others probably only do so when there's a "problem" employee or issue that they want to address.

[gimmethesimplelife]

DH and I sometimes watch a reality show called Mystery Diners where it's like Rob's job on steroids. They set up a HUGE entrapment operation. Basically, a restauranteur realizes he's losing money or some other problem and can't put his finger on the source, so he asks the Mystery Diner to come in--they set up gazillion cameras and hire fake waitresses and fake patrons and just do a big sting operation, watching everything from a remote location.

Then you watch the unsuspecting barkeeps and waitresses get busted for lying, giving away the store, comping their friends, whatever. Privacy issues notwithstanding, I think it must be a relief for the owner to be able to identify the bad apples.There are much more lower key shops available all over Phoenix - especially during tourist season here - whereby you sit at a bar and drink a couple of drinks and watch the bartender's pouring and cash handling like a hawk and report any discrepancies. They tend to pay very well and if you are so inclined, it can be a few drinks - pricey ones, too - on someone else's dime once your reimbursement comes through.

So, have I done any, you ask? Nope. I have a conflict of interest here as I know what a nightmare food and beverage can be - I know what it's like to escape to the walkin freezer when blamed for something I have no control over. My point is since I know what f and b can be like, I'm going to over side with the staff and be non-objective.....so I turn these shops down for moral and ethical and conflict of interest reasons.

I don't agree with staff giving away free drinks or comping their friends or otherwise stealing from their employer in non-take-cash-out-of-the-till-directly-ways but I can understand what leads some people to this behavior. Having this understanding, wouldn't you all agree it's best that I don't take these shops as I'm unable to remain objective in such a situation? Rob