A Tiny House In Our Future?

[Gregg]

Not right away, but maybe... I've been in love with the movement since I first saw it years ago. Now that the kids are raised DW and I moved into 800 sq.ft. and love it. Its about 15% of the housing cost we had when we were raising kids, but still several hundred dollars a month in taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, etc. If we could cut that to the bare minimum she could join me in semi-retirement". I have the skills and tools needed to build a tiny house and have spent enough time thinking about it to know we could end up with a great space. What I don't know is anyone who actually lives in one. Does anyone here? You can't beat first hand reports, or at least second hand through this gang.

[Ultralight]

I know a couple people who built and live in tiny houses. One of them is forming a tiny house community about an hour outside of Columbus, OH.

[iris lilies]

When I think of living in a truly tiny house with one other person, it would have to offer getaway space.

Getaway space ace would be something like outdoor rooms available most of the year. That's not your climate.


And/or, it would have to be plopped down in the middle of a walkable city where I could escape to library, market, coffee shop, etc.

due to building codes the latter is difficult in a city. In my area one could modify any number of carriage houses to living space of 200 to 450 sq feet, but chat would have to own and maintain the "big house" in front. Rent that out, I suppose.

[Float On]

I'm game....if we can each have our own and then a 3rd for "commons area".

[Ultralight]

I'm game....if we can each have our own and then a 3rd for "commons area".

Isn't that just a normal house, split into three free-standing structures? ;)

[Float On]

Isn't that just a normal house, split into three free-standing structures? ;)

Basically, but we both need a lot of "alone time". Don't want to see the headlines "couple build tiny house found dead after only 12 hours from too much closeness". We've actually talked about building little free-standing cabins on the home farm.

[Ultralight]

LAT!

Living Apart Together. ;)

A couple close friends of mine swear by it. I'll probably end up living this way if I ever have another life partner.

[Kestra]

I know a couple people who built and live in tiny houses. One of them is forming a tiny house community about an hour outside of Columbus, OH.

I want to live in a tiny house community so badly. There was some land I wanted to buy and everything. But I just don't feel I'm in the right place to make that kind of commitment, money-wise, and to just one area.

[Ultralight]

I want to live in a tiny house community so badly. There was some land I wanted to buy and everything. But I just don't feel I'm in the right place to make that kind of commitment, money-wise, and to just one area.

Buy a camper van.

[Alan]

Buy a camper van.That's my thought on the whole tiny house thing as well. Our motorhome is essentially a tiny house with the added benefit of being easily moveable. I love it, but begin to feel just a bit claustrophobic after several weeks.

[Kestra]

Buy a camper van.

You are well aware that's the plan ;)

[ToomuchStuff]

You could also build one.

I saw this the other day and it gave new meaning to your home is your castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=34&v=CnHGKUh-5O4

[Teacher Terry]

I spent a month in our 27 ft RV with 4 dogs & that was sufficient:|(

[JaneV2.0]

I think 800 sq. ft. is as tiny as I'd want to go for two people. It's also about as small a house as anyone I know lives in. I'm with Iris Lily and Float On--I'd be homicidal in no time sharing so little space with another person. But i'm into that LAT thing...

[Gregg]

When I think of living in a truly tiny house with one other person, it would have to offer getaway space.

Getaway space ace would be something like outdoor rooms available most of the year. That's not your climate.


Correct, that is not our climate. If anything ever became of this, however, a significant change in our climate would occur at the same time. We live outside during every reasonable minute of the year anyway so that would be heavily factored into the design.

[JaneV2.0]

Maybe if I had an outbuilding/studio/retreat...

[awakenedsoul]

My house was built in 1944, and it's 567 square feet. It's very comfortable, and perfect for one person. I never feel cramped or claustrophobic here. It's got a shady front porch that overlooks the cottage garden. The flowers, herbs, and plants make a big difference. I've got windows that look out onto greenery, and they make the cottage feel bigger.

Although I grew up in a large home, I've lived in apartments, condos, or small houses since that time. I don't have much stuff, and was raised to keep things neat and tidy. I'm able to live on much less than most people, because my expenses are so low. My electric bill is between $11.00-$40.00 a month. It's only high if I use the air conditioning. My gas bill is around $25.00 a month.

I highly recommend small homes. The new tiny ones seem overpriced and cramped to me, but they are beautiful. I like having a large lot, as well. Mine is 7,400 square feet. The dogs have room to run and play. I can sit out on the swing and gaze at the orchard and animals.

I wouldn't want a large home after living this way. I have what I need and am comfortable. I'm also able to save money and can be selective about employment.

[pony mom]

During FYI's Tiny House Nation show they mentioned videos of couples living in their homes after a year. I missed the link and can't find it online but I wonder if they are all still happy in the teeny abodes.

[SiouzQ.]

I just looked this up, my two bedroom townhouse is a total of 875 square feet, which includes the basement. I felt like it is too big for one person, but I have that extra bedroom to rent out. I just wish it had an extra 1/2 bath when there are two unrelated people living here. Three people makes it feel quite crowded though.

I could easily live in a much smaller space if I had a separate building to use as I studio. Or a studio with a little corner as a living area!

[Float On]

During FYI's Tiny House Nation show they mentioned videos of couples living in their homes after a year. I missed the link and can't find it online but I wonder if they are all still happy in the teeny abodes.

On some of the tiny house blogs I have seen a lot of listings this year for "Tiny home, only 1 year old".....made me wonder too. There has been a tiny home for sale here for 6 years, sitting in a resale lot with RVs I've never seen anyone looking at it.

[Ultralight]

I think it takes a certain mindset and temperament to live in a tiny house forever.

[Ultralight]

I totaled up the space I use in my current house. It is about 210 square feet -- my room, my bathroom, and the portion of the garage where I keep my bicycle and my canoe/fishing gear. Having some open, vertical shelves saves me from going a little nutty. I once lived in a 100 square foot room with no shelving and no closet. Everything was on the floor. I had a little goat trail through my room to my bed. This was not optimal and aggravated me to no end!

[freshstart]

I could do it alone with dogs, on a very small lot. Agree on increased chance of homicide with a partner, I need alone, quiet, peaceful time. So if ESPN or Fox was on most of the day and there is absolutely no way to get away from that noise, I could not do it. Also, stairs are a big problem right now, so I would want a ranch in case this doesn't go away or I just get naturally old and cannot do them. I've never seen a one level house. If I did a tiny house, I'd be hoping it's my last house so I'd need to make sure it's adapted for me now or the way I'll be as an old person.

I actually really do not like having more space than what is needed or used. My town house was roughly 2000 sq ft if you counted two huge finished rooms in the walk out basement. me and two kids, two dogs. Made a beautiful family room in the basement totally tricked out for kids and friends. They never used it, same with the other large room that I stupidly furnished, cheaply but still. Very tiny fenced yard, perfect for dogs, very low maintenance for me. It was too big for 3 of us and my kids are close to launch, despite liking it and it was reasonable cost wise, all that unused space alone or with a partner would bug me to no end. Joined forces with parents on handicapped accessible ranch for both parties to save on bills, but mostly to make care of my terminally ill mom easier. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, large open DR/LR. That seemed like plenty to me seeing as how my mom is rarely out of bed. Basement the size of the house, my dad chose to put in a family room/guest BR and a room for him to escape. Fine but I wouldn't have bothered. When they are gone, it is now ridiculously too big for me and a partner, it's paid for but the taxes are very high. Thought I was maybe in my last house since it's paid for but realize ultimately, I'm not. Too much waste

I'm hoping this movement takes off as boomers age and want less space, so when I'm ready to do it, the prices are lower, the lots small and maybe even neighborhoods exist. That it's an acceptable way of life, no longer a fringe movement.

[Ultralight]

I could do it alone with dogs, on a very small lot. Agree on increased chance of homicide with a partner, I need alone, quiet, peaceful time. So if ESPN or Fox was on most of the day and there is absolutely no way to get away from that noise, I could not do it. Also, stairs are a big problem right now, so I would want a ranch in case this doesn't go away or I just get naturally old and cannot do them. I've never seen a one level house. If I did a tiny house, I'd be hoping it's my last house so I'd need to make sure it's adapted for me now or the way I'll be as an old person.

I actually really do not like having more space than what is needed or used. My town house was roughly 2000 sq ft if you counted two huge finished rooms in the walk out basement. me and two kids, two dogs. Made a beautiful family room in the basement totally tricked out for kids and friends. They never used it, same with the other large room that I stupidly furnished, cheaply but still. Very tiny fenced yard, perfect for dogs, very low maintenance for me. It was too big for 3 of us and my kids are close to launch, despite liking it and it was reasonable cost wise, all that unused space alone or with a partner would bug me to no end. Joined forces with parents on handicapped accessible ranch for both parties to save on bills, but mostly to make care of my terminally ill mom easier. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, large open DR/LR. That seemed like plenty to me seeing as how my mom is rarely out of bed. Basement the size of the house, my dad chose to put in a family room/guest BR and a room for him to escape. Fine but I wouldn't have bothered. When they are gone, it is now ridiculously too big for me and a partner, it's paid for but the taxes are very high. Thought I was maybe in my last house since it's paid for but realize ultimately, I'm not. Too much waste

I'm hoping this movement takes off as boomers age and want less space, so when I'm ready to do it, the prices are lower, the lots small and maybe even neighborhoods exist. That it's an acceptable way of life, no longer a fringe movement.

Oh... ESPN? Fox? Bless your heart... :/

[Kestra]

I totaled up the space I use in my current house. It is about 210 square feet -- my room, my bathroom, and the portion of the garage where I keep my bicycle and my canoe/fishing gear. Having some open, vertical shelves saves me from going a little nutty. I once lived in a 100 square foot room with no shelving and no closet. Everything was on the floor. I had a little goat trail through my room to my bed. This was not optimal and aggravated me to no end!

That seems a good amount. I measured my bedroom at 120 sq ft and it's mostly empty floor space. With some good storage solutions, a smallish kitchen, and quite small bathroom, plus going outside a lot, I think 200-300 would be tons. My 600 sq ft house was way too big for me.

[freshstart]

Oh... ESPN? Fox? Bless your heart... :/

I don't often admit to being this shallow but Fox News always, always on and the Rush Limbaugh magazine contributed to the death of my 7 yrs with the hoarder who had 187 Grateful Dead shirts. I admit, Rush and Fox broke me, they won the battle but not the war.

In this house, we ended up with too many TVs and tivos when we joined forces. So they are everywhere. I hooked up all the tivos and programmed them so that the Fox News channel just is not in the line up, oops! My father has had Time Warner here 3 times trying to get his Fox News, luckily so far, they don't get that I did that to the tivos, so they mess around for a while, tell my dad he should be getting it, they don't know why and leave. Pure heaven! Fox: 1 Me: 10

[Alan]

I don't often admit to being this shallow but Fox News always, always on and the Rush Limbaugh magazine contributed to the death of my 7 yrs with the hoarder who had 187 Grateful Dead shirts. I admit, Rush and Fox broke me, they won the battle but not the war.

In this house, we ended up with too many TVs and tivos when we joined forces. So they are everywhere. I hooked up all the tivos and programmed them so that the Fox News channel just is not in the line up, oops! My father has had Time Warner here 3 times trying to get his Fox News, luckily so far, they don't get that I did that to the tivos, so they mess around for a while, tell my dad he should be getting it, they don't know why and leave. Pure heaven! Fox: 1 Me: 10Ok, I'm confused....who had trouble living with who???? ;)

[freshstart]

that didn't make much sense, sorry. I was with exBF for 7 yrs, we lived an hour apart and neither wanted to uproot our children, plan was to co-habitate when kids were launched. As time wore on, I realized he was a hoarder who did not feel he had a problem, so that was not going to go away, I can't live that way, so for that and many reasons I just let it die a natural death. We had a lot in common, good, kind man, but what we did not have in common, I could not have happily lived with, especially the hoarding and handling of money.

then two years ago, my kids were soon to be launched, I no longer wanted such a big townhouse, my mom is terminally ill. I joined forces with the folks on a handicapped accessible home, both save money, easier for me, a nurse, to care for my mom. My DD and I have rooms on one side, folks on the other so it was surprisingly not hard to co-habitate with them as an adult. My dad is hard of hearing, LR with big tv just outside of my room, disabling Fox News was a survival measure.

[sweetana3]

Mom got new hearing aids with bluetooth enabled she gets the tv sound thru her hearing aids and the receiver she wears (as well an answering the phone the same way.) Lovely. Got them at Costco.

[freshstart]

my dad is on his second set of expensive hearing aids, VA helped some. He will not wear them because they make his ears itch. When it was just him and my mom, she would call crying that she couldn't stand the tv for one more second. I got him those wireless headphones. which he will not wear, because of course, they make his delicate ears itch. So in this house she is far away from him so it's only my problem, it's kind of like being 10 all over again. As long as it's not Bill O and Ann Coulter, I can deal, lol. Now that I am not 10 and I own part of this house, I made a rule, watch all he wants, whenever he wants, whatever he wants but it is off during dinner. His wife is dying, talk to her at dinner, there is nothing more important on the damn tv!

[pony mom]

During FYI's Tiny House Nation show they mentioned videos of couples living in their homes after a year. I missed the link and can't find it online but I wonder if they are all still happy in the teeny abodes.

Found it! http://www.fyi.tv/shows/the-first-24/videos Looks like one video so far unless I didn't try hard enough to find more.

[jp1]

I spent 12 years in a 250 sq foot apartment in Manhattan so I could totally live in a tiny house if it was just me and the cats. But I left Manhattan to move in with SO in NJ, and now we live in San Francisco. A small space that would work for us would have to include a living room with SO's tv, a decent kitchen since we actually do a lot of cooking, and a separate bedroom. I also need a separate space for my 'office' where I read books and go online, far enough away from the living room that I can't hear the tv. We could probably make a 400 sq foot house with a very basic outbuilding for 'my' space work pretty well. Especially since we live in coastal California, where the weather is pretty nice all year long so we can spend a lot of time outside. We'd also need some sort of cellar space or basement space to store wine. But we could definitely get by with significantly less than the 1200 sq feet we have currently, as long as it was well designed/laid out.

But tiny house on a trailer size? Probably not. At least not for both of us together or we'd be in the same news story as Float On. "A rash of inexplicable murder/suicides has happened in tiny homes. Film at 11:00..."

[mschrisgo2]

jp1, 400 sq feet isn't a "tiny house" but it is a "park model." Google it, you might get really excited. I like the idea of a park model (400 sq ft) with a front porch, a loft for storage, and back porch that I could close in for my sewing room. Plus I know someone who has one and made a wine cellar underneath!

[Ultralight]

This is a fully equipped 60 square foot tiny house! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDZV2_hXAYk

[Gregg]

The 60 sq.ft. model is cute, but it would make me crazy even by myself. Our thoughts are revolving around our hay trailer, which is a 35' flat bed semi trailer. Since we already own it that's a natural place to start. At 35' x 8' we would be at 280 sq.ft. if we used the whole thing and easily well over 400 with a loft at each end. There are things we just don't want to live without. Full size kitchen appliances and a shower where our elbows won't hit the walls all the time are examples. I was playing with AutoCad and came up with a couple designs that have that plus a sun room that could produce a lot of food, jetted bath tub in one and an actual hot tub in another just for grins, dining seating for up to 10, more than enough book cases to indulge that addiction (assuming a good purge before getting started), golf club storage, complete off grid capability in all designs, grilling spaces, decks both fold down and roof top, etc. My deal is that I'm finally starting to look at it from the angle of "what can we have" instead of "what do we have to give up". I'm just not sure yet if I'd still have DW...

[Ultralight]

The 60 sq.ft. model is cute, but it would make me crazy even by myself. Our thoughts are revolving around our hay trailer, which is a 35' flat bed semi trailer. Since we already own it that's a natural place to start. At 35' x 8' we would be at 280 sq.ft. if we used the whole thing and easily well over 400 with a loft at each end. There are things we just don't want to live without. Full size kitchen appliances and a shower where our elbows won't hit the walls all the time are examples. I was playing with AutoCad and came up with a couple designs that have that plus a sun room that could produce a lot of food, jetted bath tub in one and an actual hot tub in another just for grins, dining seating for up to 10, more than enough book cases to indulge that addiction (assuming a good purge before getting started), golf club storage, complete off grid capability in all designs, grilling spaces, decks both fold down and roof top, etc. My deal is that I'm finally starting to look at it from the angle of "what can we have" instead of "what do we have to give up". I'm just not sure yet if I'd still have DW...

I totally get what you are saying and I dig your plan! I think I could do the 60 square footer if I lived in a warm climate so I could just be outside most of the time. I'd also want to be able to cook outside, like on a little grill or camp stove so that the shower inside could be a bit bigger.

[ctg492]

Son and Daughter in law are moving in this weekend to save money for their Tiny House dream. I am keeping my mouth shut and zipped to them, but can vent here. Main Questions that I can't get past: *Where is this home going?? I can not find any placed in MI that zoning allows these. YES I have heard and read all the Future communities, but none have pasted zoning ordinances yet.* They are so expensive if a Tiny Home Builder builds it. *How do you think you can tow this home as the dream is to take your home with you if needed. A car is not pulling this. * Not inexpensive living if you have to make payments and Lot rent if you have too. *septic system needed if on a Lot. *Resale of your investment.

I watched a news segement on a couple in MI that build their own and it was darling. They rented out their regular home which made the mortgage payment and parked the Tiny Home in the back yard. $25,000 cash for this. Chesterfield ordinances did not approve and they could not live in it they were told.

Oh so many questions. And yes I feel the way mentioned here, go buy a travel trailer for pennies compared to the cost and resell when done. BUT I am honestly keeping my views and thoughts to myself.

[ctg492]

http://tinyhousetalk.com/cautionary-tale-on-tiny-houses/

[Ultralight]

Son and Daughter in law are moving in this weekend to save money for their Tiny House dream. I am keeping my mouth shut and zipped to them, but can vent here. Main Questions that I can't get past: *Where is this home going?? I can not find any placed in MI that zoning allows these. YES I have heard and read all the Future communities, but none have pasted zoning ordinances yet.* They are so expensive if a Tiny Home Builder builds it. *How do you think you can tow this home as the dream is to take your home with you if needed. A car is not pulling this. * Not inexpensive living if you have to make payments and Lot rent if you have too. *septic system needed if on a Lot. *Resale of your investment.

I watched a news segement on a couple in MI that build their own and it was darling. They rented out their regular home which made the mortgage payment and parked the Tiny Home in the back yard. $25,000 cash for this. Chesterfield ordinances did not approve and they could not live in it they were told.

Oh so many questions. And yes I feel the way mentioned here, go buy a travel trailer for pennies compared to the cost and resell when done. BUT I am honestly keeping my views and thoughts to myself.

ctg492:

I commend you for refraining from raining on their parade. Perhaps I can set your mind at ease just a little. I am also living with family (my sis and BIL) in large part, to save up for a tiny house. There are builders in my area who sell completed tiny houses for $20k. I know a guy who has been renting one out on his property out in BFE. I toured it and he is open to selling it for $10k! Fully equipped. People get disenchanted with their tiny homes and sell them, sometimes after a year or so. They take a loss, but maybe it is worth it for the experience. Or maybe your son and DIL will love the tiny life and stick with it forever. :)

I have a friend here in Columbus who built a fully equipped tiny house for $11k. He rents a plot in someone's yard in the city for $400, flat fee; all utilities included. He used to live 45 mins outside the city on a different person's land. He paid $50 a week. Not bad!

The truth is that tiny houses will never "front" in major cities. But they may be allowed in backyards or in special "trailer park-like" areas. This probably does not ease your mind that much, but here is the real crux of what I think will ease your mind.

I am saving up for a tiny house, as I said. When I get $25k together I am going to start making choices and reassessing. Do I want to DIY this thing? Do I want to HAP (hire a pro) to build it? Do I still want to do the tiny house thing?
If your son and DIL are continually reassessing (which I am sure they are, but maybe not with you there) then you have much less to worry about. By the time they have enough bread to build or hire a contractor they might not want to do it after all. Or the zoning laws might change. Or maybe there will be a tiny house park in MI somewhere. Or they might move to Spur, TX. A lot can happen between now and when they have the cash. That is all I am really saying.

[rodeosweetheart]

http://tinyhousetalk.com/cautionary-tale-on-tiny-houses/

Great article, ctg, and very funny.

I don't understand why there is not an equally popular movement to revitalize the 750 -1200 square foot current housing stock that is everywhere around us, at least in the areas that I like.
We lived in an 816 square foot house for 3 years recently and found it too tight since we both work at home. Liking our current 1000 foot a lot better.

But I don't get it--it would be so much cheaper, and the water and systems are already in place--much cheaper, but not as pretty.

We did just fix up a small house in SC that we are reselling now and boy, it was ugly, circa 1968, when we started, and it ended up gorgeous--so much value in that era, the bland ranch house, ugly when we bought it, quitely lovely now.

So I think many of us single living folks would be wise to think of refurbishing some of these older (and in many cases, blighted) spaces.

It's a good feeling to add value to the neighborhood, too.

[Float On]

Found it! http://www.fyi.tv/shows/the-first-24/videos Looks like one video so far unless I didn't try hard enough to find more.

There were 2 when I watched it this morning. I thought it was funny the one guy worried about where all his gaming stuff would be stored and then he "air gamed".....did he give it up? I thought both couples still had too much stuff for that amount of space and I hated the clothes hanging right next to the bed. I don't want to feel like I'm sleeping in a closet. Very uncomfortable to me.

[Ultralight]

There were 2 when I watched it this morning. I thought it was funny the one guy worried about where all his gaming stuff would be stored and then he "air gamed".....did he give it up? I thought both couples still had too much stuff for that amount of space and I hated the clothes hanging right next to the bed. I don't want to feel like I'm sleeping in a closet. Very uncomfortable to me.

I really think that one's ability to live in a tiny house comes down to a few major factors:

1. Are you in a climate where you can joyfully go outside a lot (I mean a lot-alot!)
2. Are you acculturated to living in small spaces already (Small bedroom? Tent camping?)
3. How hardcore are you about reducing the size of your ecological footprint -- does this mean a lot to you?

This is why I think I could do it if I lived in a warm year-round climate. Small spaces are okay with me as long as I have some vertical storage -- like shelves on the wall. And yeah, my environmental impact is fairly important to me.

But in a cold climate, like in Upstate New York or in Wisconsin...man... I dunno! haha

[iris lilies]

Great article, ctg, and very funny.

I don't understand why there is not an equally popular movement to revitalize the 750 -1200 square foot current housing stock that is everywhere around us, at least in the areas that I like....

yes!!!

As a collector of small but not tiny houses in an urban core, I want this movement to take up all of the empty little houses and restore them. We've completed the exteriors of 2 of ours, but no interiors.

It has been a while since I talked about our collection of little houses. Oops, I almost slipped and called them "tiny" but they are not, they are in the range of 550 to 600 sq ft. Each one has 4 rooms in a different configuration. They are:


* 1 story with all 4 rooms on one floor

* 1.5 story, bedroom upstairs

* 2 story. This one has 6 exterior doors! How crazy is that?

One of these days I'll have to post some photos.

anyway, there are tons of ways to live small or tiny in the city and I would love to see more influx of young people coming in to fix up,the small houses here. My generation moved in 30 - 40"years ago to save the grand old houses. Let The Milliniums take on the small houses, they are much more practical, anyway.

[iris lilies]

The 60 sq.ft. model is cute, but it would make me crazy even by myself. Our thoughts are revolving around our hay trailer, which is a 35' flat bed semi trailer. Since we already own it that's a natural place to start. At 35' x 8' we would be at 280 sq.ft. if we used the whole thing and easily well over 400 with a loft at each end. There are things we just don't want to live without. Full size kitchen appliances and a shower where our elbows won't hit the walls all the time are examples. I was playing with AutoCad and came up with a couple designs that have that plus a sun room that could produce a lot of food, jetted bath tub in one and an actual hot tub in another just for grins, dining seating for up to 10, more than enough book cases to indulge that addiction (assuming a good purge before getting started), golf club storage, complete off grid capability in all designs, grilling spaces, decks both fold down and roof top, etc. My deal is that I'm finally starting to look at it from the angle of "what can we have" instead of "what do we have to give up". I'm just not sure yet if I'd still have DW...

you are the rare bird who could pull this off because you have the resources, the money and the know how to build it.

I understand the appeal of building your own space, absolutely custom with quirky features for sheer fun. And I understand how the interior finish of one of these places is so much better than sterile,ugly,and immediately dated RVs.
what I can't understand is the real life work to pull these monsters around. It seems so absolutely the OPPOSITE of minimalist to be lumbering along a road driving a giant horsepower vehicle pulling tonnage.

I am always conflicted in these discussions because I love small houses, love the idea of minimal spaces, love the idea of a rolling house because I want to travel and see new things. Really, my perfect rolling house would be a classic gypsy caravan with the wonderful wood interiors and cosy fabric hangings. But I just can't get over the "ick" factor of a giant rolling thing behind our car.

For some months I've been looking at trailers and RVs on EBay. The ones most appealing to me are the "egg" types made of fiberglass. They are all old enough to need restoration so that would be fun, and they are light enough to pull with our current vehicles.

but in the end, my perfect life would be: small house next to DH's small house, and we throw one suitcase and one dog into the car to travel, staying in hotels.

[Ultralight]

you are the rare bird who could pull this off because you have the resources, the money and the know how to build it.

I understand the appeal of building your own space, absolutely custom with quirky features for sheer fun. And I understand how the interior finish of one of these places is so much better than sterile,ugly,and immediately dated RVs.
what I can't understand is the real life work to pull these monsters around. It seems so absolutely the OPPOSITE of minimalist to be lumbering along a road driving a giant horsepower vehicle pulling tonnage.

I am always conflicted in these discussions because I love small houses, love the idea of minimal spaces, love the idea of a rolling house because I want to travel and see new things. Really, my perfect rolling house would be a classic gypsy caravan with the wonderful wood interiors and cosy fabric hangings. But I just can't get over the "ick" factor of a giant rolling thing behind our car.

For some months I've been looking at trailers and RVs on EBay. The ones most appealing to me are the "egg" types made of fiberglass. They are all old enough to need restoration so that would be fun, and they are light enough to pull with our current vehicles.

but in the end, my perfect life would be: small house next to DH's small house, and we throw one suitcase and one dog into the car to travel, staying in hotels.

So many good thoughts in this reply! :) Nice!

I am saving up for a tiny house but I am not handy at all! So I would most likely HAP. That adds costs... haha

If you want to be able to pull your tiny house around you'll need a massive SUV. This is totally not minimalist! One of my friends who has a tiny house just hired a tow truck and they moved it for him from PA to OH. This is pricey. But if you only move once a year and not from Oregon to Georgia it is not too onerous. If you move somewhere and try to stick to that general area, then it is not too costly. It is a balance in a way.

By "egg" type, do you mean a little teardrop camper?

[sweetana3]

We watched someone renovate a tiny house overlooking the interstate but still in a neighborhood close to downtown. It looked like jobs were done as time/money was available. Like one wall at a time, etc. Took almost 3-4 years and now it is a cute little gem of a house with a small yard. Bet the inside is great. Lots of these little houses in this area. It was a working man's neighborhood all centered around various churches. I think Italian workers who worked at the produce terminal within walking distance. That business part of town is now gone but the neighborhoods are still there and becoming interesting again.

[iris lilies]

?...

By "egg" type, do you mean a little teardrop camper?

no I think that the teardrops are freakishly overpriced.

i mean Scamp or Casita trailers, also Lil Burito ?name?. I love their minimal weight. And I do see a recent one on EBay manufactured in 2010 so I guess they are not all vintage.

[Ultralight]

no I think that the teardrops are freakishly overpriced.

i mean Scamp or Casita trailers, also Lil Burito ?name?. I love their minimal weight. And I do see a recent one on EBay manufactured in 2010 so I guess they are not all vintage.

The Scamps are sweet!

[Teacher Terry]

Rodeosweetheart: we rehabbed an old ranch home (1950's) 3 years ago. It was ugly & in terrible shape. My hubby is handy so hired an assistant & it took 4 months of more then f.t. work but it is beautiful now. They had covered the wood floors with pergo so that went of course. There was a tiny bedroom attached to the main so we made it into a walk in closet. We had to gut the bathrooms & even move one because it was cut up into 3 different sections in the master bedroom. REally bizarre. The dining room was so big that it was a dining hall so we snagged room for there for the master bath.

[awakenedsoul]

Great article, ctg, and very funny.

I don't understand why there is not an equally popular movement to revitalize the 750 -1200 square foot current housing stock that is everywhere around us, at least in the areas that I like.
We lived in an 816 square foot house for 3 years recently and found it too tight since we both work at home. Liking our current 1000 foot a lot better.

But I don't get it--it would be so much cheaper, and the water and systems are already in place--much cheaper, but not as pretty.

We did just fix up a small house in SC that we are reselling now and boy, it was ugly, circa 1968, when we started, and it ended up gorgeous--so much value in that era, the bland ranch house, ugly when we bought it, quitely lovely now.

So I think many of us single living folks would be wise to think of refurbishing some of these older (and in many cases, blighted) spaces.

It's a good feeling to add value to the neighborhood, too.

I saw the photos of the work you did on this house. Just beautiful...That's what I've done, too. If a house has good bones, you can really give it a facelift. The thing I've found with mine is that the land is worth more than the house. (Not to me, but on the property tax statement.)

I think it's a certain personality that likes to fix up old houses. I love their charm, character, and style. Tiny houses seem more modern, and I think they attract a different type of person than the fixer upper.

A small home is definitely cheaper, easier to clean, and less to maintain whichever way you go. Also, as you get older, if you need to have surgery or you have arthritis, it's easier to live in an efficient space on one level.

I am surprised at the amount of time I spend on gardening and housecleaning in a 567 square foot home. I wouldn't want anything bigger. This is plenty.

[Float On]

Great article, ctg, and very funny.

I don't understand why there is not an equally popular movement to revitalize the 750 -1200 square foot current housing stock that is everywhere around us, at least in the areas that I like.
We lived in an 816 square foot house for 3 years recently and found it too tight since we both work at home. Liking our current 1000 foot a lot better.

But I don't get it--it would be so much cheaper, and the water and systems are already in place--much cheaper, but not as pretty.

We did just fix up a small house in SC that we are reselling now and boy, it was ugly, circa 1968, when we started, and it ended up gorgeous--so much value in that era, the bland ranch house, ugly when we bought it, quitely lovely now.

So I think many of us single living folks would be wise to think of refurbishing some of these older (and in many cases, blighted) spaces.

It's a good feeling to add value to the neighborhood, too.

That's the size I'm most interested in. That rehab you did wasn't in Beaufort, SC was it? I love the little 2 bed/1bath 600 sf cottage we stay in there. In fact, my husband is in SC for 2 weeks and he and his brother are going to stay there for a couple days. I'm always checking out what's available there on realtor.com.

I still check out smallhouseswoon.com daily but rarely check out tinyhouseswoon.com anymore.

[TxZen]

I am interested in in something around 700-1000 square feet. It's becoming hard to find in the town I am in, due to influx of people wanting cookie cutters and driving the costs of something simple up over $200k. Down by the Gulf, we saw several and in our budget.

[rodeosweetheart]

Float, yes the rehab is in Beaufort, and we've owned a total of 3 houses there. The smallest was out on St. Helena.

We've been very happy there--we love it, but our kids are up up North and out west, along with grandchildren, so we decided to redo this latest and sell it. Have a contract and supposed to close in a couple of weeks, so fingers crossed!

[Float On]

Float, yes the rehab is in Beaufort, and we've owned a total of 3 houses there. The smallest was out on St. Helena.

We've been very happy there--we love it, but our kids are up up North and out west, along with grandchildren, so we decided to redo this latest and sell it. Have a contract and supposed to close in a couple of weeks, so fingers crossed!

Well, darn. Missed my opportunity. If you buy another one there...let me know.

[rodeosweetheart]

Well, darn. Missed my opportunity. If you buy another one there...let me know.
I've pm'ed you, float!

[Gregg]

I actually don't believe the tiny house movement will ever be much more than fringe, but the fact that it has shown a lot of people that living in less space with less stuff doesn't mean a spartan existence makes it priceless. If I could secure the land and the permits to develop a subdivision of 700-1000ish sq.ft. houses I would bet the farm to bankroll it. The City Council's unspoken logic is that people living in small homes would demand the same services, but pay less in taxes than people living in larger homes. Even though 1/2 the houses in town are older and small, they want to maximize revenue from anything new. There is just enough truth in that idea to lend even more credit to the adage that you don't fight city hall. Additionally, all the top developers in town have a pipeline filled with lots designed for 2800 sq.ft. houses and a pocket full of city council members. Competition for their lower priced products wouldn't be viewed favorably. This is not an uncommon scenario in Anytown, USA.

[Ultralight]

I actually don't believe the tiny house movement will ever be much more than fringe, but the fact that it has shown a lot of people that living in less space with less stuff doesn't mean a spartan existence makes it priceless. If I could secure the land and the permits to develop a subdivision of 700-1000ish sq.ft. houses I would bet the farm to bankroll it. The City Council's unspoken logic is that people living in small homes would demand the same services, but pay less in taxes than people living in larger homes. Even though 1/2 the houses in town are older and small, they want to maximize revenue from anything new. There is just enough truth in that idea to lend even more credit to the adage that you don't fight city hall. Additionally, all the top developers in town have a pipeline filled with lots designed for 2800 sq.ft. houses and a pocket full of city council members. Competition for their lower priced products wouldn't be viewed favorably. This is not an uncommon scenario in Anytown, USA.

Very good points, still sucks though. :/

[Gregg]

Very good points, still sucks though. :/

The obvious starting point is RE-development. My 800 sq.ft. house is in the middle of hundreds and hundreds of other 800 sq.ft. houses. We have mature trees, are 5 minutes drive (14 by bike) from the warehouse district that is the hottest spot in town, the same distance from a major university, a few blocks from a small college, etc. We're in a hot market right now because of low unemployment and even lower interest rates. Average days on market for houses here is 17. Average DOM in my neighborhood is 4 and the average selling price is 104% of listing price. Gentrification is happening as fast as the original owners are dying. I would be buying, renovating and flipping as fast as possible except people are pricing houses as though they are already fixed up. I don't want to do that much work for free, but its still encouraging to see younger owners moving in and fixing up. I kind of like it that there is no way for the bigger developers to gain a presence in the hottest market segment. Its poetic. But that's just me.

[ctg492]

Update on son and daughter inlaw. They met with tiny home builder and came to the conclusion of where or better where they could not put the home. They think it would be a wonderful living, but a trailer park is the only place they found so far and that was not the dream. They want small living in the heart of the the city to walk, bike and such so they are re doing the plan. Best of all I said nothing.

[freshstart]

Best of all I said nothing.

that had to be hard! you done good

[Ultralight]

Story about people who hate their tiny houses. http://gawker.com/a-pint-sized-nightmare-five-couples-speak-out-about-ti-1720615844?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Ultralight]

Update on son and daughter inlaw. They met with tiny home builder and came to the conclusion of where or better where they could not put the home. They think it would be a wonderful living, but a trailer park is the only place they found so far and that was not the dream. They want small living in the heart of the the city to walk, bike and such so they are re doing the plan. Best of all I said nothing.

What do your foresee the re-done plan looking like?

[freshstart]

Story about people who hate their tiny houses. http://gawker.com/a-pint-sized-nightmare-five-couples-speak-out-about-ti-1720615844?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

that was so funny!

"Long story short—puppy got bigger, too big for the house even, and I stayed the same size. Bullshit.”

[Float On]

http://www.businessinsider.com/five-people-who-abandoned-their-tiny-homes-2015-7
This popped up in my facebook feed today. 5 people who abandoned their tiny homes. 2 couples and 1 single man. Thought the only reason the man abandoned his was due to zoning issues.

[Ultralight]

http://www.businessinsider.com/five-people-who-abandoned-their-tiny-homes-2015-7
This popped up in my facebook feed today. 5 people who abandoned their tiny homes. 2 couples and 1 single man. Thought the only reason the man abandoned his was due to zoning issues.

Excellent post! Thanks for sharing. It is much more serious than the silly one I posted and conveys the message better.

[Gregg]

Really interesting Float On. I'm still a little awestruck by the people that spent $260K on 760 sq.ft. That's $342/sq.ft. That is incredibly expensive. I spent most of my working life building very expensive houses on mountain lots, which add a lot of expense, and our average cost was not that far above their cost. But we're talking custom everything in those houses, not cabin kits. It seems to be a case of people getting into a big project with no experience and no concept of how to build a team that will work on their behalf. That rarely ends well.

We need to develop housing methods that are flexible enough to change when people's lives change. Most indigenous cultures have some kind of system that scales to whatever situation the family is in at the moment. Kids are born? Add space. Parents die? Remove space. Our current construction methods aren't conducive to just building and knocking down parts of our houses, but we can get a lot more creative with flex space that can go from living area to storage to greenhouse to play room to whatever over the years. Its not hard to do, we just need to have a little imagination and get away from the cheap, cookie cutter, suburban models we've been spoon fed for the last couple generations.

[awakenedsoul]

http://www.businessinsider.com/five-people-who-abandoned-their-tiny-homes-2015-7
This popped up in my facebook feed today. 5 people who abandoned their tiny homes. 2 couples and 1 single man. Thought the only reason the man abandoned his was due to zoning issues.

Boy, these people learned some expensive lessons.

[iris lilies]

Story about people who hate their tiny houses. http://gawker.com/a-pint-sized-nightmare-five-couples-speak-out-about-ti-1720615844?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Funny!

[Ultralight]

Something that I think about often, that increases my hesitancy about building a tiny house is, that there are so many livable structures already built. They may not fit the size requirements I want (tiny) or would be best for some form of commune or co-housing, but they already exist.

As someone who has always considered himself a BANANA environmentalist (Build Absolutely Nothing Around Nobody Anywhere) I had to really deal with the cognitive dissonance when I decided to save up for a tiny house (and potentially build or hire someone to build one).

[Kestra]

I think it's interesting to note that the dissatisfied people either picked incredibly small places - 130 sq ft for two people? (I wouldn't even do that) - and/or really isolated (I couldn't handle that), or crazy expensive. I don't think they thought it all through. And it's definitely a problem with the building codes that most non-rural communities don't allow the tiny places.
Also strange to me that they classified 1000 sq ft and less as tiny. IMO 1000 is massive and 100 is too small. I'm going to stick with 200-400 square feet as the right size for me +/- a partner. Or co housing, or a van, which have different ways of measuring space.
I also agree with Jake that buying new doesn't always feel right. There are lots of cheap, small, existing places that could be fixed up with minimal expense, and possibly less environmental impact.

[Ultralight]

I think it's interesting to note that the dissatisfied people either picked incredibly small places - 130 sq ft for two people? (I wouldn't even do that) - and/or really isolated (I couldn't handle that), or crazy expensive. I don't think they thought it all through. And it's definitely a problem with the building codes that most non-rural communities don't allow the tiny places.
Also strange to me that they classified 1000 sq ft and less as tiny. IMO 1000 is massive and 100 is too small. I'm going to stick with 200-400 square feet as the right size for me +/- a partner. Or co housing, or a van, which have different ways of measuring space.
I also agree with Jake that buying new doesn't always feel right. There are lots of cheap, small, existing places that could be fixed up with minimal expense, and possibly less environmental impact.

I also think that 130 sq. ft. feels like a lot more in California or Florida as compared to Ontario, Michigan, or Colorado. If you can go outside anytime then it makes your tiny house seem less restrictive. If I lived in a tiny house in Florida I'd sleep in the house, cook in there when not grilling, and store my few possessions there. But otherwise -- why not relax outside or eat outside or play outside or take a walk or any number of other things -- outside! Don't move to Nunavut and think you're going to be able to keep your sanity in 130 sq. ft. with your partner!

[pinkytoe]

It is odd to me too that the homes of several decades ago (800-1200sf ) are no longer very popular. Seems like a very livable option for many scenarios. They are being torn down here and replaced with 4000 sf homes so I guess the huge house trend is strong enough that there is a market. I could live in a tiny home as a second home for short periods but am prone to claustrophobia. Out of curiosity, we had planned to go to this when we are in Colorado nest month but the dates didn't work out:
https://www.tinyhousejamboree.com/

[Ultralight]

After reading a few anti-tiny house articles there is one issue that really stick out to me; it really makes me reconsider.

The idea of hauling that thing from place to place. Hiring a tow truck or whatever... :(

[Kestra]

After reading a few anti-tiny house articles there is one issue that really stick out to me; it really makes me reconsider.

The idea of hauling that thing from place to place. Hiring a tow truck or whatever... :(

Yes. Better to just rent in a tiny house community if possible.

[Ultralight]

Yes. Better to just rent in a tiny house community if possible.

There ain't too many tiny house communities yet, and with the recent media backlash, I am suspecting the tiny house movement is sputtering into the junk yard of fads.

[Float On]

After reading a few anti-tiny house articles there is one issue that really stick out to me; it really makes me reconsider.

The idea of hauling that thing from place to place. Hiring a tow truck or whatever... :(

Yes. I followed a couple's blog in the building of their tiny house. Those things are really heavy for their size. All that "custom wood". They had 6 blown tires by the end of their journey from where it was built to where they wanted it located 2 states away.

[Ultralight]

Yes. I followed a couple's blog in the building of their tiny house. Those things are really heavy for their size. All that "custom wood". They had 6 blown tires by the end of their journey from where it was built to where they wanted it located 2 states away.

Whoa! That is kind of crazy. I feel like I am in a pickle, as many people do, regarding housing. Here is a description of this pickle. Tell me what you think:
-Most houses are too big, cost too much, require tons of maintenance, and are pricey to heat/cool.
-Tiny houses are illegal because of zoning, require tow trucks to move, and can cause social/privacy issues
-Living in a van is for creepers (unfortunately...) in most parts of the nation, also illegal in most places; I am not mechanical either.
-Living in a teepee is a sure fire way to get Lyme Disease and/or hypothermia and/or arrested
-Living in an apartment is giving your money to a landlord with nothing to show for it at the end (but do I want "something to show for it" at the end?)
-Living in an RV is expensive and has many complications that tiny houses and vans have
-Living in a house with room mates is often rather horrible because "hell is other people" and this is still like renting an apartment, though often cheaper
-Living in a teardrop trailer also shares many tiny house, RV, vandwelling issues; and you need a car (at least) to tow it.

So what is a workin' man to do for affordable housing that does not constitute a second full-time job to maintain?

[Gregg]

I think some people don't do enough research before jumping in. Most of these tiny houses end up weighing ~10,000 lbs or a little more. If people are having a hard time moving them it is because they either built it on the wrong trailer or they are pulling it with the wrong truck...or both. Blown tires means you either had bad tires or you needed a heavier duty trailer. A hard time getting it to move means your truck doesn't have enough guts to pull something that heavy. The videos rarely talk about that less glamorous, but potentially very expensive side of the movement.

We have a trailer for hauling hay that is actually an old flatbed semi trailer. The rated capacity is 22,500 lbs. It wouldn't wobble a bit with a tiny house on it. The truck we pull it with will easily handle a load like that and is, in fact, set up with all the bells and whistles needed to pull heavy trailers. I saw a tiny house video where the owners were trying to pull theirs with a Camero. That's just dumb, but I've only seen one or two vids that will tell you that, if you're going to be moving very often, you can't get away with a Prius. I can't imagine a good used truck all set up for that kind of hauling costing less than $20,000 and it could easily be closer to $30,000. Then once you have it you own a vehicle that is going to get 12 MPG. If that's your only car that fuel expense needs to be accounted for as well.

My summary is that a tiny house would be great if you can live that lifestyle and if you have a beautiful lot where you can park it and leave it. In most other situations there are probably better options.

[Gregg]

Whoa! That is kind of crazy. I feel like I am in a pickle, as many people do, regarding housing. Here is a description of this pickle. Tell me what you think:
-Most houses are too big, cost too much, require tons of maintenance, and are pricey to heat/cool.
-Tiny houses are illegal because of zoning, require tow trucks to move, and can cause social/privacy issues
-Living in a van is for creepers (unfortunately...) in most parts of the nation, also illegal in most places; I am not mechanical either.
-Living in a teepee is a sure fire way to get Lyme Disease and/or hypothermia and/or arrested
-Living in an apartment is giving your money to a landlord with nothing to show for it at the end (but do I want "something to show for it" at the end?)
-Living in an RV is expensive and has many complications that tiny houses and vans have
-Living in a house with room mates is often rather horrible because "hell is other people" and this is still like renting an apartment, though often cheaper
-Living in a teardrop trailer also shares many tiny house, RV, vandwelling issues; and you need a car (at least) to tow it.

So what is a workin' man to do for affordable housing that does not constitute a second full-time job to maintain?

Revolt?

[Ultralight]

Revolt?

Do people still do that?

[Alan]

Whoa! That is kind of crazy. I feel like I am in a pickle, as many people do, regarding housing. Here is a description of this pickle. Tell me what you think:
-Most houses are too big, cost too much, require tons of maintenance, and are pricey to heat/cool.
-Tiny houses are illegal because of zoning, require tow trucks to move, and can cause social/privacy issues
-Living in a van is for creepers (unfortunately...) in most parts of the nation, also illegal in most places; I am not mechanical either.
-Living in a teepee is a sure fire way to get Lyme Disease and/or hypothermia and/or arrested
-Living in an apartment is giving your money to a landlord with nothing to show for it at the end (but do I want "something to show for it" at the end?)
-Living in an RV is expensive and has many complications that tiny houses and vans have
-Living in a house with room mates is often rather horrible because "hell is other people" and this is still like renting an apartment, though often cheaper
-Living in a teardrop trailer also shares many tiny house, RV, vandwelling issues; and you need a car (at least) to tow it.

So what is a workin' man to do for affordable housing that does not constitute a second full-time job to maintain?
"You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium's
Liable to walk upon the scene"

[freshstart]

I'm leaning towards revolt because I think you would do that well but in reality, you need a place to lie your head. A condo? A small townhouse? I loved my townhouse, low maintenance yard, never in over a decade there did I hear anything through the walls and we all had dogs or kids, or both. Tons of land behind it that we could use but didn't have to maintain. $250 a yr in fees.

Whatever you do, I would make sure it's an asset, an investment, not a rental.

[Ultralight]

"You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium's
Liable to walk upon the scene"

Riddle me this.
Riddle me that.
I am not sure...
What you're getting at.

[Ultralight]

Why an investment/asset? Why is that important?

[Gregg]

Do people still do that?

Yea. Just not quite often enough.

[Ultralight]

Yea. Just not quite often enough.

Americans tend to be a very passive people. I don't see any revolts happening here. I think they still happen in Latin America once in a blue moon.