Downsizing--Actually Spend More?

[Radicchio]

Who has downsized to a smaller home or is planning to do so? We are in the process of deciding whether it would be advisable for us, as we approach retirement. We still are in the process of investigating our options, so haven't made a decision one way or the other yet. Either way, I'm using this as an opportunity to further pare down possessions at least.

I'm finding that when DH and I discuss what to do DH often starts out from the position that, while he's willing to downsize in terms of square feet, he seems to want all of the same custom features (and maybe some extra) that we have now. I keep reminding him that downsizing, by virtue of the name, implies giving up some things and it's just a matter of prioritizing what is most important at this stage of life. Thankfully, he's responsive to that idea, although it seems like I have to keep reminding him of it.

I don't have any specific questions, but I'm just interested in what the rest of you have done or considered doing. As a side note, we have an adult multiply disabled child who is totally dependent on us. So no tiny house for us. We are considering a 3 bedroom 2 bath home of about 1800-2000 square feet. I'm sure to some of you that seems obscenely large, but we think it's best to provide room for all three of us. I love my child dearly and am glad that my child has remained with us, but it is nice to have a little space sometimes, too.

[razz]

I am not understanding what it is that you are hoping to gain with downsizing. Less cleaning, heating/cooling and maintenance inside and outside? If you have the amenities for your family as it exists right now, it seems that you are considering your diminishing energies and abilities in the coming years. The size that you are considering is still very large. How large is your present home to justify making changes?

[JaneV2.0]

I hope to downsize in about a year. With luck, I'll be able to spend half the proceeds of the house on a new place and invest the rest. I expect to buy about a 1000 sq. ft. house or condo. Aside from the view property, I expect the new house to be at least as nice as the old one--just smaller, in a slightly less pricey area. I'm downsizing, after all, not donning sackcloth and ashes. Sometimes I dream about a high rise in Portland's Pearl district, but I suppose that isn't in the budget... >:( I think the size and particulars of "downsizing" should be left up to the people doing it; other people's opinions shouldn't really matter.

[lessisbest]

Our 9-yr. old 3-bedroom home has 1372 sq. ft. (full semi-finished basement) and our idea of downsizing will be something with two bedrooms, around 800-1000 sq. ft. - which should be within the next year or two. It will probably be much older in order to lower property taxes. We've looked at several townhomes and placed bids on 2 of them, but the HOA fees don't always equal a lot of savings (water, yard, snow removal, trash, Sentricon termite system...) and we don't require a pool, club house, tennis, etc. We have considered building a duplex and renting out one half for additional income.

We set aside $550/month to go towards things like property taxes, Sentricon, home insurance, and a number of other incidental annual and bi-annual costs that are not regular monthly bills, and I would like to cut that by at least 50% when we downsize. This would also mean going from two vehicles to one.

There isn't a one-size-fits-all for downsizing. We thought we accomplished our downsizing 12-years ago when we moved into a townhouse. Then the conjoined neighbor sold her half to a real idiot. We immediately moved.

[ctg492]

I applaud anyone that as a couple can change dramatically the way they live.

It did not work for us. We downsized dramatically gosh 10ish years ago. We sold it all at 44 and moved to the north weekend vacation home. Going from a really large home to 1000 sq feet at that time of life was a big change that I think looked far better on paper. Did we do it the correct way, if there is one? I don't know. We actually planned the event for one full year prior. We put everything in storage at the time and it left an empty feeling. We had no debt but wanted to get away was the reason. Husband wanted to retire. This was a man who had never shopped bargains. SO to say OK this is it we are on a budget that was strict did the event in probably. Also though the home was sweet and we had spent a few years vacationing, to live there made hubby feel like: This was what I worked my life for? You know that saying nice place to vacation but would not want to live there. I thought it was great after a month, he was ready to get back to the only life he had known.

Unless there is a debt that is overwhelming or a strong want to change. I am of the thought now that cuts can be made or changes in daily life VS a complete change that may not be correct. I have a fund I build on yearly that if it comes to I can't care for where I live i.e. grass, snow, cleaning that I can pay for it till I am ready to move.

Long and short of it for us and we don't seem to learn is to never veer too far from our normal way of life, how we like to live, home style, neighborhood and such.

Your Son is number one and he is thankful.

[iris lilies]

Even though I burn up the internet looking at small houses, I think it's likely I'll die in this house: Victorian of 1900 sq ft, 2.5 story + basement. The main thing is that DH has no desire to squeeze down, and because he/we (mainly he) have accumulated so much stuff in the 25 years here, we've got a lot of stuff.

DH has oodles of tools and pieces of wood, metal stone, etc. he actually does use all of this stuff at some point, so I wouldn't want to deprive him of this essential part of his life. He is Mr. Fixit and is widely respected for that.

Compared to houses of our friends in this neighborhood of Victorian excess, ours is simple and manageable. We have a full bathroom on the 1st floor. This house will be ok through our 70's. But both of us grow weary of the race politics here, as well as crime, so that is as big a driver for moving as anything.

[Ultralight]

I have downsized over the past 5 years or so. Granted there have been some upsizings as well as downsizings but the general trend has been downward. At my peak of stuff and space I lived in a 1200 square food condo (it has a small porch, a balcony, a little storage unit attached, etc.) with a partner. We used the smaller of the two bedrooms for sleeping and the bigger to store all the stuff we accumulated -- books, instruments, gadgets, clothes, games, what-have-you. Since then I have lived in places that were smaller. Right now I rent a room in a 1100 square foot single story house. I have the smallest room, a smallish bathroom, and a sliver of the two car garage for my canoe and fishing gear.

I also went from owning a couple thousand things when I lived in that townhouse to now owning like 158 things.

I can say that in my experience downsizing has saved me money in the vast, vast majority of instances. The "just in case" things I have needed -- like band-aids or whatever, I can just drive, bike, or even walk to the CVS and get for less than $25.

I have been able to put back a good emergency fund, which means I do not have to keep "just in case" possessions that clutter my life.

As for selling or buying a home, I have no advice for you on that because I have never done it. But downsizing has been great for me in many ways!

[Teacher Terry]

WE downsized from 2000 to 1400 sq ft & we are happy. However, because DH likes junk we have a 1 car garage & big shed in backyard. WE saved on heating, cooling, property taxes were cut in half because here they go by age of house & this house was built in 1950. WE also moved back into town instead of the burbs & also like that a lot better.

[awakenedsoul]

I started out in a small, older home, and have just stayed here. It's very comfortable and efficient. My property taxes are about $1,400. a year, and they can only go up 2% per year. My father lives alone in a very large house, and he complains about how much it costs him. He keeps it because the property taxes are only $3,000. a year, and someday he wants to pass on the home to his family.

I do think we get used to what we have. It's important that you can really live happily in a different situation. For example, I tried living with my boyfriend in my 567 square foot cottage, and it didn't work. We split up amicably, but sometimes too small a space doesn't help the relationship or the finances.

One thing I like about this cottage is that it's very close to everything I need. I am just a few miles from the grocery store, pharmacy, library, post office, gym, and Costco. That saves me gas, time, and stress. I'm also right on the bus line if I need it.

[Radicchio]

I am not understanding what it is that you are hoping to gain with downsizing. Less cleaning, heating/cooling and maintenance inside and outside? If you have the amenities for your family as it exists right now, it seems that you are considering your diminishing energies and abilities in the coming years. The size that you are considering is still very large. How large is your present home to justify making changes?

Present home is over 3000 square feet---on three levels, with lots of property to take care of. So, yes, we would like to reduce our maintenance and utility costs, and relocate to a single level, although we are able to negotiate the three levels at this point, and I actually think it provides a good additional source of exercise through the day. However, I realize that as we age that may change---also an unforeseen injury (or deterioration of knees, etc.) could make the three levels problematic. I agree that the square footage we've been considering is still large, but if we decide to relocate we are going to make sure the house has wide enough hallways, doorways and space to move about if any of us became disabled either temporarily or permanently (or in my child's case became disabled further).

I totally agree with the comments about this not being a one size fits all proposition. There is no doubt that our current home is oversized for us now, but when all kids were home it was wonderful, and at that time we enjoyed having our friends (including kids' friends and their parents) at our house frequently. Part of the square footage is a guest suite with small kitchen, private bath, living area, and bedroom. We gradually put this in what was an unfinished daylight basement when we moved into our home. We have had a number of family and friends stay with us for extended periods of time. But now we're thinking it might be time to consider whether it would be more practical and more economical to downsize. We are still looking, but haven't found anything yet. We found a couple houses closer to 1600 square feet that I was seriously interested in, but both sold within a week of listing. We just keep watching what's out there and considering various options.

We are not practicing "simple living" to the extent that many of you are here---living in an RV, being able to count the total number of possessions we own, etc. But we did build our current home, did the lot development ourselves as well as as much of the labor as we could for the actual build. We ended up with the unfinished daylight basement because it was just $600 more to include it in the plan, since are property is sloped. And we drive our cars until we simply cannot repair them anymore--16 years or so. When we have bought cars, we do so with huge down payments we've saved ahead of time and then pay off the remaining low interest loan that's usually set for a term of 3 years in 1-1/2 year or less. So we may not fit the exact description of simple living---we're not super minimalistic---but we are frugal and live modestly. Except for our home and a couple cars, we save money first then purchase what we need/want.

I just thought it would be interesting to hear others' stories and learn from what you have done that you're glad you did and anything you wish you had done differently. I've enjoyed all the comments so far.

PS---One more thing: We live in a very hilly area and are looking for a place that is a bit more level to facilitate walking more and driving less. It's exhausting when we go somewhere by bicycle and have to pedal up a long, steep hill to get home.

[TxZen]

We have agreed to downsizing, but a smaller house, no condo/apartment for hubby. We also agreed that we are not going to move wayyyyyyy out in the country. I hate all the driving and closer city living comes with some compromise as well. We would probably have to retro fit something in the bathroom and kitchen, as we are tall and most older homes are way to short, as far as counter height and bathroom fixtures. Size wise- less than 1000 square feet ( would like around 700), one level, 1.5 baths. We have already begun the process of removing stuff from out lives, living on hubby's paycheck only, trying to shop only at the farmer's market and the perimeter of the store, eat at home etc, clothing shopping 2x a year, still maintain 2 small trips a year etc. Basically, live like we are retired and see what we can truly do right now. It will be to our advantage when we sell, as we have some nice equity in our home, even after all selling/realtor fees. Hoping even to get solar on a smaller house, knowing it will costs us more in the onset. As far as where we want to live, it's the coastal life for us. We both thoroughly enjoy it, not just a passing fancy. We also plan on keeping our interests active- such as reading, photography, animal rescue, for me. Also, maintaining our cars for as long as we can. I would like to get 10 more years out of mine. Money wise- we are trying to maximize contributions right now. We are 41 and 44 and I plan on working until 65, health and life willing. I would say our health has prioritized and an integral part of this all, more than money to me. As usual, things will tweak as we go.

[Tussiemussies]

We downsized when we moved back from PA. We rented a small house compared to what we owned which was three levels with a somewhat finished walkout basement. We had five bedrooms and although we have no children all of the rooms were used for a specific purpose and all were big. I miss my large craft room on the third floor, it had terrific views since the whole town was built into a mountain range.I had all my sewing and crafting items neatly on shelving, I DIDN't have to dig around for anything...We now have a little under 1,000 square feet upstairs and a finished basement that is a nice size, there is 1.5 baths. I am really happy in this home although it does feel small to me at times. We have major work to be done in the basement family room. I think once it is done and we can use it will feel better for me. Sometimes I just like the feeling of having somewhere else to go in the house, it makes it a little more comfortable for me.

Everyone has their own way that they want to retire but after such a culture shock when we lived in the other state, we want to stay in NW NJ for good. I really hope we will be able to. DH loves his side business and doesn't want to stop, so that should take care of our hefty taxes. Hopefully we will be functional for a long time, but I know you cannot always count on that.

I don't mind the downsizing, just as long as I have a place for the things I do and I know husband feels the same too...

[Radicchio]

TxZen, Ah yes, the coast. We also fantasized about retiring in a coastal community, but decided it would not be good for our child, who does not handle big changes well at all. That's another huge consideration---we plan to stay near our current neighborhood, but try to find some flat land. As far as your plan to retrofit some things in the house, that should be quite doable. In the short time we've been looking at what type of homes have come available in our area, we have already found 2-3 that we would have seriously considered buying (all at very reasonable costs) and fixing up a little to suit us. They all sold quickly, and we don't feel ready to make a final decision yet on whether to move or not. But, if we're patient, I believe more opportunities will come along.

Tussiemussies, I agree that having more room isn't always worse, if kept within reason. I don't want the house to be so small that we are constantly having to pack and unpack a closet or cabinet to do something. We don't have a lot of stuff, but we do have interests and hobbies that require certain tools or supplies. And, for example, I love to cook and to have people over for meals. Thus, having adequate counter top space and storage in a kitchen is important to me for my quality of life. I am, however, willing to downsize from the larger kitchen that I have now, as I no longer entertain 20-30 people at a time. In an effort to convince DH that we really can downsize more than he thinks, I have told him that I will even pack away my beloved sewing machine, as long as we have a place to put it that is easily accessible.

It really makes a difference when you are downsizing for 3 instead of 2. If I am in sight, my child is constantly asking questions about what I'm doing, what I just said to DH or someone else, etc. There is literally no peace. So my adult child needs a room that is comfortable enough that it is enjoyable to retreat there to listen to music or read books for a while---not only for my child's sake but for mine as well.

[Tussiemussies]

Hi Raddicchio,

I totally understand your needs. I feel the same as you about having the space to do the things we enjoy so much.

Maybe it would also be good for your son to have time away from you too?

Christine

[Chicken lady]

Have you seen the book "not so big house" by Sarah Susanka? It might be a good source of discussion starters. It's about quality rather than quantity, not how to build a cheaper house, but putting your money into the amenities that make the house right for You rather than square footage.

Dh and I are building an addition. Where to put he addition began not with the design of the current house, but with daylight modelling for windows. The kitchen area took shape around " double wall ovens and a view of the goats" and "not cut off from company". We have a wall that was planned around the dimensions of the upright piano. We are actually moving our electrical service and dryer vent in order to slide the addition the 6 ft to optimize light and the location of that piano.

So, i'd say, start by figuring out what is most important to each of you, then go look for that. It won't necessarily be what is traditionally important to others. Our architect was a bit thrown at first when she brought out her starter questions and we kept saying "doesn't matter, whatever works around, whatever is least expensive...." (for example - the new front door will open into the addition. My only requirements were that I could look through part of the door when it was closed and that it not be in the way of the piano. Apparently most people are very picky about the approach to their house.

[rodeosweetheart]

We downsized from about 1600 sq feet to 800, but in a warmer climate. 1600 was upstate New York, and felt like the perfect size when we had kids home. A bit big for 2, but then we got work at home jobs, and the 800 q foot house. 800 was tight but it worked because we were in SC and spent lots of time at the beach or riding horses!

Now we are around 1000 and it's pretty tight in a cold climate again. Nice in summer, but cabin feverish in winter.

I decided 500 sq foot per person about ideal, unless you work at home, in which case, add another 500 to divide into two offfice. So if you have 3 adults living at home, 1500 would be about ideal, I think, and two bathrooms a necessity.

In my estimation, at least, and I second the suggestion of the Suzanka (sp??) books on not so small house because so many of those ideas make the house live so much better and fuller, and make us happy!

What was rough was 800 square feet with a layout that had no privacy--you could stand in one spot and see every into every room in the house.

And we discovered many small houses not laid out wheel if you have walker, etc. I had a walker in one house, andwas crawling up and down stairs--not fun, and I would not mind a one story house myself, but dh loves having an "upstairs."

[Ultralight]

We downsized from about 1600 sq feet to 800, but in a warmer climate. 1600 was upstate New York, and felt like the perfect size when we had kids home. A bit big for 2, but then we got work at home jobs, and the 800 q foot house. 800 was tight but it worked because we were in SC and spent lots of time at the beach or riding horses!

Now we are around 1000 and it's pretty tight in a cold climate again. Nice in summer, but cabin feverish in winter.

I decided 500 sq foot per person about ideal, unless you work at home, in which case, add another 500 to divide into two offfice. So if you have 3 adults living at home, 1500 would be about ideal, I think, and two bathrooms a necessity.

In my estimation, at least, and I second the suggestion of the Suzanka (sp??) books on not so small house because so many of those ideas make the house live so much better and fuller, and make us happy!

What was rough was 800 square feet with a layout that had no privacy--you could stand in one spot and see every into every room in the house.

And we discovered many small houses not laid out wheel if you have walker, etc. I had a walker in one house, andwas crawling up and down stairs--not fun, and I would not mind a one story house myself, but dh loves having an "upstairs."

The 500 sq. ft. per person number is intriguing. For everyone in American to have 500 sq. ft. to live in there would need to be something like 150,000,000,000 sq. ft. of living space.
Mucho!

[Radicchio]

Tussiemussies, Yes, you are right. The idea of a retreat for my childi's sake is high on the list, too. Because of that, on the plan we are considering if we end up building we radically slashed the square footage for the office so that we could add it on to my child's room.

Chicken Lady, It sounds like you've done a good job of figuring out your priorities and how they relate to the decisions you make for your addition. In fact, it sounds much like our experience in building the house in which we live now. One quick example that comes to mind is that we eliminated the palatial bathroom suite off the master bedroom. We put a long counter with two sinks outside a smaller area that houses a large walk-in (no door or shower curtain needed) shower and the toilet. At the time, spa tubs were extremely popular and we were asked a number of times if we were sure about it. DH and I rarely take baths---it's get up in the morning, get in the shower, get dressed, and go! When we do want to soak in a bathtub, we have a standard size bath in our child's bathroom that we can use. I can't imagine staring at that wasted space or, worse, cleaning out the dusty spa tub regularly when we rarely if ever would use it. And, yes I am familiar with Sarah Susanka and love her ideas. I even looked at some of her plans, but none of them were suitable for us. Doesn't mean we can't incorporate some of her ideas, though.

Rodeosweetheart, Sounds like you've given this topic a lot of thought. I have never lived in a tropical climate, but I have had extended stays there, at times, and it's true that one can really extend the living area with the great outdoors. Would love to do that here, but my only suggestion for our home in the Pacific Northwest is to make sure we have a covered deck/patio area. Since we usually have so much rain here, a covered area enables you to be outdoors on those drizzly days that aren't really that cold.

[iris lilies]

Tussiemussies, Yes, you are right. The idea of a retreat for my childi's sake is high on the list, too. Because of that, on the plan we are considering if we end up building we radically slashed the square footage for the office so that we could add it on to my child's room.

Chicken Lady, It sounds like you've done a good job of figuring out your priorities and how they relate to the decisions you make for your addition. In fact, it sounds much like our experience in building the house in which we live now. One quick example that comes to mind is that we eliminated the palatial bathroom suite off the master bedroom. We put a long counter with two sinks outside a smaller area that houses a large walk-in (no door or shower curtain needed) shower and the toilet. At the time, spa tubs were extremely popular and we were asked a number of times if we were sure about it. DH and I rarely take baths---it's get up in the morning, get in the shower, get dressed, and go! When we do want to soak in a bathtub, we have a standard size bath in our child's bathroom that we can use. I can't imagine staring at that wasted space or, worse, cleaning out the dusty spa tub regularly when we rarely if ever would use it. And, yes I am familiar with Sarah Susanka and love her ideas. I even looked at some of her plans, but none of them were suitable for us. Doesn't mean we can't incorporate some of her ideas, though.

Rodeosweetheart, Sounds like you've given this topic a lot of thought. I have never lived in a tropical climate, but I have had extended stays there, at times, and it's true that one can really extend the living area with the great outdoors. Would love to do that here, but my only suggestion for our home in the Pacific Northwest is to make sure we have a covered deck/patio area. Since we usually have so much rain here, a covered area enables you to be outdoors on those drizzly days that aren't really that cold.

dont you know that the spa tub holds the cats litter boxes? That's what we do with ours.

only once in 25 years has someone used our stupid spa tub.
DH and I'm have never used it, we use the showers exclusively.

[Radicchio]

dont you know that the spa tub holds the cats litter boxes? That's what we do with ours.

only once in 25 years has someone used our stupid spa tub.
DH and I'm have never used it, we use the showers exclusively.


LOL! At least you have a sense of humor about it. And I bet it helps a lot to keep the cat litter confined and not tracked onto the floors.

[Chicken lady]

Lol! We have a stupid spa tub in the guest bath - well, actually it's sort of a mini spa - it was the biggest tub we could squeeze into the space and it has a recirculating heater, but no jets. It's actually the shortest length tub of any kind you can get but extra wide. It goes wall to wall across the short side of the bathroom and we had to shave an inch off the studs. I think it will fit three preschool grandchildren with boats. It's deep enough that if you only fill it halfway you should get minimal splash out but can still warm he water back up for them. And it has a wall mounted shower and a curtain we take down when noone is visiting because we DO use it as a bath several times a month a least.

[Gregg]

We downsized to our current 800 sq.ft. Full disclosure, it has a full, walk out basement so is really 1600, but we don't use it so for living purposes I only count the main level. At our max. we had 5600 sq.ft. including a full, finished basement. The only reason we went that big was because the market for that kind of home was hot as a pistol, I was a builder so we could build it considerably cheaper than most and because after living there two years the profits from the sale were tax free. Those profits were enough to put us over the top with what we thought we needed to retire. That was the method to the madness, but I will tell you our whole family hated living in that barn.

Anyway, the current smaller house is something we always wanted. Old neighborhood, big trees, close in to all the great events and nightlife, but far enough out to be quiet. It was a foreclosure sale of a little, 1954 brick ranch. We redid everything in the house so it has all the bells and whistles we want. In the end it would have probably been cheaper to build it new, but then we would be out in the middle of a former corn field with no trees and miles from all the activities we enjoy. It is really easy to live in, we can heat it with a candle, clean it top to bottom in an hour, live inside or outside at any time... Wouldn't go back to a Mcmansion or even just a regular big house for the world!

[rodeosweetheart]

With the 500 foot figure, I thought it was clear I meant adult, but YMMV, ultralite, I was sharing my experience of living and downsizing.
I think my opinion is valid, as is yours.

[Ultralight]

With the 500 foot figure, I thought it was clear I meant adult, but YMMV, ultralite, I was sharing my experience of living and downsizing.
I think my opinion is valid, as is yours.

I agree your opinion is valid as mine. I was just musing about what 500 sq. ft. for every American would look like. Kind of an interesting idea to run through one's imagination...

[Radicchio]

Lol! We have a stupid spa tub in the guest bath - well, actually it's sort of a mini spa - it was the biggest tub we could squeeze into the space and it has a recirculating heater, but no jets. It's actually the shortest length tub of any kind you can get but extra wide. It goes wall to wall across the short side of the bathroom and we had to shave an inch off the studs. I think it will fit three preschool grandchildren with boats. It's deep enough that if you only fill it halfway you should get minimal splash out but can still warm he water back up for them. And it has a wall mounted shower and a curtain we take down when noone is visiting because we DO use it as a bath several times a month a least.

Chicken lady, Your comments are the first to ever make me see the value of the spa tub. If I had young grandchildren or children whom I could bathe in the tub at once or who could just get in and play in the water if they wanted to, I would be willing to put up with the disadvantages of one. I'd even put up with having it sit unused after the children grew older.

[ApatheticNoMore]

This is closer to how I feel about small housing:


As a rule, people in New York wish for smaller places to live about as often as people on airplanes wish for smaller seats. I used to dream sometimes that I had found rooms in my apartment that I didn’t know were there, and, as I explored them, I felt a serenity that I did not feel in my waking life. I never had a dream where my apartment was smaller, and I don’t think I would feel very good if I did.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/07/25/lets-get-small

Ok a one bedroom apartment like I have is okay with me (but even though I'm not all that happy with the present one, but that's not about the size, it is a one story and has a small garden strip outside (just a strip), and some common yard areas). Would even a one bedroom be all that comfortable without that or would it actually feel cramped? I often go out to the common outside areas, they are fairly private. There's a park nearby I go to as well.
I also feel like this article about it
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/29/whatever-happened-to-the-tiny-house-movement/


People can over-adapt to circumstances for just so long


living in such a small area can build up frustrations in the long term. People may tire of bending their heads when they go to bed under the sloping ceiling, or tucking in their elbows in the shower.

Yes, that's what I've always been told about human psychology as well, that little frustrations that are constant build up, aren't really little at all. Now, no one's life is frustration free, but a situation like this is adding on frustrations.


folding down beds and tables daily means extra tasks that people eventually tire of, so they leave the stuff in place, shrinking the living area.

Yea almost NOONE is going to actually do that day after day. Path of least resistance takes over, good design takes into account the lazy and in fact makes daily tasks easier (ie a hook for the keys etc. :)), that building and unbuilding your home all day would annoy and sooner or later wouldn't happen.

Maybe it's just that I've lived in studio apartments, I prefer one bedrooms, so in fact I don't prefer less space. And at times even a one bedroom feels small (and would feel more so without outside areas) but mostly it's about the right size for one person. Is the average one bedroom 500sq ft? I don't know. Probably is, huh? Than that's a good size.

What if I had a standalone house the size of a one bedroom but a house and so much better constructed, and on a bit of land? Actually that sounds quite appealing but only if it's just one person.

[Ultralight]

This is closer to how I feel about small housing:


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/07/25/lets-get-small

Ok a one bedroom apartment like I have is okay with me (but even though I'm not all that happy with the present one, but that's not about the size, it is a one story and has a small garden strip outside (just a strip), and some common yard areas). Would even a one bedroom be all that comfortable without that or would it actually feel cramped? I often go out to the common outside areas, they are fairly private. There's a park nearby I go to as well.
I also feel like this article about it
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/29/whatever-happened-to-the-tiny-house-movement/





Yes, that's what I've always been told about human psychology as well, that little frustrations that are constant build up, aren't really little at all. Now, no one's life is frustration free, but a situation like this is adding on frustrations.



Yea almost NOONE is going to actually do that day after day. Path of least resistance takes over, good design takes into account the lazy and in fact makes daily tasks easier (ie a hook for the keys etc. :)), that building and unbuilding your home all day would annoy and sooner or later wouldn't happen.

Maybe it's just that I've lived in studio apartments, I prefer one bedrooms, so in fact I don't prefer less space. And at times even a one bedroom feels small (and would feel more so without outside areas) but mostly it's about the right size for one person. Is the average one bedroom 500sq ft? I don't know. Probably is, huh? Than that's a good size.

What if I had a standalone house the size of a one bedroom but a house and so much better constructed, and on a bit of land? Actually that sounds quite appealing.

The idea of temporary over-adaptation to a particular environment is totally interesting!

[Radicchio]

I think all of our responses are speaking to our own circumstances at this time, and obviously those can vary greatly. We each have our own way and degree of living a simple life. I think what we have in common is that we all value the principles of simplicity and frugality, even though we may do so in very different ways. So, while I can appreciate those who have a very light footprint on this world, such as being able to move all of their possessions in their car, I would never voluntarily simplify to that level. With three adults in the household, one of whom has severe disabilities and the others approaching retirement age, I would go so far as to say that it would be impossible to do so and it would only happen in the case of dire emergency.

As I write this, I am so aware of the differences in each of our circumstances but even more so aware of the differences on a global scale. I have spent time in the homes of families with 6 or more children, all living and sleeping in one room---with no indoor plumbing and dirt floors. They did, however, have running water available outside. When I compare my lifestyle with theirs I feel sad about the inequity, but I also know that moving my much smaller family into a one-room home without indoor plumbing and other amenities would serve no purpose either. So I guess I would say I temper my simple living principles with the practicalities of our life. A good example might be having a central vacuum system. It does make my life so much easier, but I could get along without it. OTOH, my severe allergies have benefited so much that I would not willingly go back to not having the central vac.

[Ultralight]

I think all of our responses are speaking to our own circumstances at this time, and obviously those can vary greatly. We each have our own way and degree of living a simple life. I think what we have in common is that we all value the principles of simplicity and frugality, even though we may do so in very different ways.

True! Well said. :)

[Tammy]

It's interesting to read this thread. My husband and I live in a studio apt of about 550 squ ft. All one room, plus bathroom. But we think of the whole downtown as our backyard and it works for us.

[Ultralight]

It's interesting to read this thread. My husband and I live in a studio apt of about 550 squ ft. All one room, plus bathroom. But we think of the whole downtown as our backyard and it works for us.

Very cool!

[dmc]

We moved to SW Florida last year and planned on downsizing some. We pretty much gave quite a lot of our old stuff away, no way I was paying to have everything moved 1000 miles. The downsizing didn't work out, the upscale area's with the nice houses were all bigger. We wanted a pool and a crime free area. So we went bigger, and had to buy a lot of new furniture. But we have plenty of room for company and we had quite a lot last winter. At least it's all on one level.

So we spent more on the new house, and our taxes, insurance, and upkeep cost more. I guess if we run out of money we can always move into a trailer park.

[Ultralight]

Nice trailer parks down there that are affordable?

[dmc]

Nice trailer parks down there that are affordable?

I would assume they would be less than other choices. They are still pricy for what they are down in the Keys.

What's affordable? Many here have amazing waterfront homes that they just visit in the winter.

[freshstart]

I have not read all the posts, forgive me if this is a repeat to someone else. 2 yrs ago my kids were close to being launched and my mom is terminally ill. One day my dad and I were just talking, I was saying how my 2000-ish sq ft town home had always been bigger than what we needed. I was divorced with 2 young kids, this was the least expensive housing in the school district, except for fixer uppers that I couldn't afford to fix and had too much yard. We had large rooms we never used. With the kids off to college soon, even though it was very affordable, I truly did not want that much space. He was saying how even though they had paid off their ranch, expensive repairs were coming up and it was not at all handicapped accessible. I mentioned mom was likely going to need more help soon, it would be easier if I were closer.

IDK how exactly this happened, but the next day we had a realtor representing a handicapped accessible new construction home that the deal had not gone through. We looked at it, it was pretty much perfect (way too much yard, but my dad swears he likes his ride-on, so fine). Looked at a few others, bought this the next day! 2 good-sized BRs at my end, master at the other end of the house. I thought privacy and boundaries would be an issue, oddly, not at all. DS was spending his time at his dad's, swore he was fine not having a separate BR. My dad decided to add a guest room/FR and an office anyways. So Adam has that whenever he wants it. With his additions, I feel like I upsized but I didn't because two families are now under one roof. I no longer have a mortgage.

Unfortunately, I got ill in Sept and am now disabled. However, the whole house is handicapped accessible so I am benefiting from that, as well. I truly do not know what I would've done had I still been in my town house, it was 3 stories, my room at the top, access for the dogs at the bottom and I can no longer do stairs remotely like those, let alone multiple times a day. It had taken a while to sell, so trying to do that while getting sicker and sicker would've been very hard. And I don't know where I would've gone. I actually need my dad's help, I fall a lot, he picks me up. I cannot drive yet have many MD appts, he takes me to every one. We do have a incredibly inexpensive cleaning lady who comes every 2 weeks but she has become a family friend and is over several nights a week for dinner and visits. I have not been able to be the help I wanted to be by far, and I feel horribly guilty about that. But everyone assures me we are ok and should we become not ok, we have plans in the back of our heads.

So we did downsize but not in the way either of us expected. Financially, not having a mortgage is a huge blessing. When I was working, I was able to save more money once we did this. An incredible blessing by happenstance, I downsized but live in a new home, never thought I'd ever live in new construction. Getting very ill sucks, but already being set up in this house, having help to scoop me up, and actually getting much closer to my dad, that's priceless. Being able to spend time with my mom at any time is wonderful. We tend to meet in the kitchen at 4 am, for some reason she is at her best in the middle of the night. I'm in the kitchen at 4 because I am no longer capable apparently of understanding how time works, I think it's 4p and I am late for a MD appt that does not even exist. She patiently explains the am/pm thing and tells me to look outside, see it's dark? I embarrassingly try to prove some point and say things like yeah, but it's always dark at 4p in January. She cues me that it's JULY and then we just chat. And that has been great, logging time with her when she is not in pain or cannot breathe is the best thing that could have ever happened to me, every minute of that is a gift. I may not remember these sessions exactly or often, not at all, but I do know they happen and I am thankful. Unfortunately for her, I am often back at 5 and she has to go through the whole mess again, lol. Less patient, she shoves the newspaper in my face with the date and yells "JULY!" I am blessed beyond belief.

If you're in the sandwich generation and your parents need you, 3 generations co-habitating is not as painful as you would expect. Of course, it works best if the sandwich person is not a confused, habitual fall-er, but shit happens.

[Tussiemussies]

Fresh start, what a wonderful situation you fell into. I am glad that it is working out well, for all but so sorry to hear that you are disabled now. Wishing you the best...christine

[freshstart]

thank you, Christine

[awakenedsoul]

Fresh start, what a wonderful situation you fell into. I am glad that it is working out well, for all but so sorry to hear that you are disabled now. Wishing you the best...christine

Yes, well said Tussiemussies. I enjoyed reading your story and wish you the best, freshstart.

[freshstart]

tyvm! it's funny how life turns out, I never expected to live with my parents, I never expected to really be hit by a serious illness relatively young. Somehow it's all good, as a hospice nurse I knew spend time with the people you love but I was busy working, maintaining a home, raising kids to really do this. Now I have nothing but time and that is a blessing. I just spent all day at MD appts with my dad, it was a falling down day so he went in with me, instead of waiting in the car. We had hours with nothing to do but talk or listen to his crazy, extreme right wing am radio that makes my ears bleed. I turned that off and said, "not today, old man, not today, " and he laughed and we had a good time together. When not held captive by the car, he's not that much of a chatter. He putters around, fixes things, hangs in his office, watches a ton of tv, he does not just pop into my room to see whassup'. In the car and waiting rooms, totally different guy. It sounds crazy that just being given rides by a person can make you closer but it totally has.

[Teacher Terry]

That's awesome about the time with your Dad! I spent my life working with people with disabilities helping them return to work & that taught me that there is no guarantee in life. In an instant your entire life can change. Glad you are making lemonade out of lemons:~). It takes a special type of person to do that instead of just feeling sorry for yourself. You are awesome!

[freshstart]

thanks. That must've been a hard job

[Teacher Terry]

It was the best job I ever had! I was a social worker first & got burned out after only 4 years. I then went back to grad school to be able to do all the vocational testing to help the client & counselor come up with a feasible plan. OUr clients are mostly voluntary so it makes a huge difference. Some had ulterior motives for coming-SSDI telling them to contact us so they didn't want to work & were just afraid of losing their $. Most of our clients were workers before their disability & wanted to continue to be or were young just starting out in the work world. Some people wanted to work so bad but were so disabled that we would have to tell them to apply for SSDI which was heart breaking. I loved going to work everyday. However, when you work in a big bureaucracy there are many irritating things that have nothing to do with the actual work you are doing.

[JaneV2.0]

Five hundred square feet per person seems reasonable to me--even if I personally need nearly twice that :). This is a vast, vast country with large swaths of it uninhabited, and its population in decline. Factor in vertical dwellings, and it seems do-able to me. Of course, lots of people like being crowded together, and that's OK too. Or maybe we should limit land ownership, too? ;)

[freshstart]

It was the best job I ever had!

That's a job type I'm hoping to eventually get back to. Despite my utter failure at case managing myself, I was able to case manage in my sleep. It's one thing about nursing that I can say I do well, it comes naturally, prioritize issues, think about solutions, try some, if they don't work, re-plan. If I had a totally overwhelmed family, calmly sitting down, making what may be a huge list of things they need help with, offering ideas and they then felt like they had some control over what IRL is not very controllable. I know all the places to get certain kinds of help, free used equipment, food pantries, hands on agencies, etc. I need to really start doing this with myself.

I want to go back to doing that if I get better. I can see being able to do the planning with families. But right now, driving seems so unlikely, as does getting up steps at people's houses and the hands on of hospice work, nope, not for a long time. I hear SSDI will re-train you, I wonder if that means for big jobs that need a degree, because maybe I could be a social worker. This is probably a pipe dream, I could never go back to school unless they fix that ball of blood vessels sitting right where cognition is in the brain. And I will never drive or do normal things if they don't fix this having no BP and falling on my face. Re-training, maybe switching to social work, sounds great. But feels so unattainable. Hey, maybe I can do what we home care nurses call "going over to the devil's side" and do "case management" for insurance companies. Desk, telephone job, but we all hate those case managers because the answer to a request is almost always, "no" because they have to save money for the company. Beats sitting at home thinking it's January. Oh, that will have to be fixed, too. Do they do retraining on how to use a calendar, understand am and pm, and remember the directions back to your house in the town you've lived in forever but does not look familiar? As Elton John says, "I think it's gonna be a long, long time," lol.

crap, now I want my job back so bad, God I LOVED that job! but 10 yrs in hospice isn't a bad run, I guess, and 23 yrs altogether. Monday is the day I start case managing myself, even if it's at a snails pace, I have to do it. Case management is more fun when your patient is not a GINORMOUS PITA (that would be me, lol)

[Teacher Terry]

VR would pay for college if you can't use your transferable skills from your other jobs/college. If you had a social work degree you could do case management. Some jobs don't involve going to client's homes-they come see you at the office. To be a counselor for people that are disabled you need a master's in Voc Rehab Counseling. It sounds like you would make a great case manager but obtaining college at this time does not appear to be feasible from what you are saying. They also could help with daily living skills which seem to be a challenge for you right now. You should call & set an appointment with Voc Rehab. Every state has one since it is a federal program administered by the states. I know what you mean about CM for nurses-the answer is always no:|(

[freshstart]

VR would pay for college if you can't use your transferable skills from your other jobs/college. If you had a social work degree you could do case management. Some jobs don't involve going to client's homes-they come see you at the office. To be a counselor for people that are disabled you need a master's in Voc Rehab Counseling. It sounds like you would make a great case manager but obtaining college at this time does not appear to be feasible from what you are saying. They also could help with daily living skills which seem to be a challenge for you right now. You should call & set an appointment with Voc Rehab. Every state has one since it is a federal program administered by the states. I know what you mean about CM for nurses-the answer is always no:|(

thanks for this info. Maybe someday I'll be back in college but a Master's, I just don't know, that might be too big of a step. Did you find the market for social workers to be overfull? Jobs here for SW are kind of hard to find. Nursing and social work were the two careers I wanted since I was in high school, I haven't changed much!

[Teacher Terry]

The job market really depends on the area. Some states the market is terrible & some they can't get enough. I would research it online. Don't ever ask the local colleges because they will mislead you. If their graduates get any type of job they count that as placement so their numbers look good. They just don't bother to separate out the students who got jobs in their field of study versus outside.

[freshstart]

thanks

[larknm]

We downsized and learned new skills we couldn't have foreseen for living in a smaller space. For example, we have one closet for two of us and it has the washing machine and hot water heater in it and our clothes. We have no space for things some people consider necessities, like we have no drawers, including in the kitchen where we only have below-level cabinets and only two of them, taken up with trashcan and DH's overflow from his study. We have hung a couple of baskets from the ceiling to make a little space to put things. Adapting. Our house is 600 sf and I wouldn't want to have to maintain anything bigger, especially as get old and every task takes a lot longer.

[Gardnr]

I truly do not have a sense of what you actually want out of your 'new' home. I understand a private sanctuary for your adult child who will always live with you. I understand a single level that you can remain in as you age. I understand smaller than the current 3000 feet. So here are my random thoughts.

It sounds like leaving your current home is a given so I'm going on that assumption.

Pretend you own nothing and are starting life anew. This will help you determine what you currently own that actually owns you (declutter now and that will help).

Set a budget with a 10% $ range for some flexibility.

Write your must-have list in a property. IE: 2 master suites, open kitchen/dining/family great room for cooking/visiting, small grassy space, room for food garden, flat, no neighbor on at least 1 side etc....whatever works for you!

2. Give this list to a realtor you trust and tell them to call you when they have 6 for you to look at. Go looking and spend time visualizing YOUR life in these spaces. What will you do where? What furniture transfers? What has to go? Can you live with that?



2. Don't pay monthly for guest space (ie larger home/upkeep/utilities). How often do you have overnight guests? Is it cheaper to help them sleep at a hotel if they cannot afford one and this is important to you, or do you have guests so often that paying for a sleeping space is worth it to you?

Can you combine space functionality?

My Dad was disabled/aged when we bought this home 24y ago so in retrospect that was lucky as it is old age ready.

Instead of buying/moving we took down the walls between 2 tiny bedrooms and a hallway. Now I have a 13x19 quilt studio that doubles as a huge guest suite for those 14-20nights/yr I have overnight guests. Instead of moving for a 3car garage so DH could develop a woodshop for his woodwork hobbies (he makes many gifts we give as do I), we added on a space across the back of our small 2car garage (it has narrow shelving along 1 wall and barely holds our 2 vehicles if DH backs in and we each park against the walls) and we did a bumpout into our garage at the front for cabinetry inside the shop, making this small space more functional for him. The cabinets both upper/lower were free :cool: saving a bundle.

This home has a formal living room. It functions for us as: computer workdesk, my piano and my large quilting machine. The small space is packed but it works well for me and it gets used every day.

Our home is 1850sf and the space least used is the formal dining room. It's just the 2 of us. Many years ago we bought l little bistro table/2 chairs and that is our dining table placed in the family room adjacent to the kitchen.

I don't know if this is helpful to you or not. It seems like hearing many stories about the homes we've made and how we use them/live in them will help you create the picture of what you are after.

Best of luck on this journey. You have tough decisions to make.

[Gardenarian]

Hi Radicchio,

We (me, dh, 16yo) moved from a 3 story older home with a difficult layout and terraced gardens to a single level ranch house.

I find our new house infinitely easier to maintain. The yard is mostly level and I'm looking forward to landscaping.

The house isn't new but is in much better shape than our previous house. The layout is darn near perfect, with the bedrooms separated from public spaces.

The location is great, I really don't need a car (though I have one.) The exercise from going up and down stairs is more than compensated by walking everywhere.

We got rid of loads of stuff during the move and I'm still tossing lots of stuff as I unpack.

Moving was an incredible amount of work. We were really motivated to live in our new town - really, it's a whole new life for us. As we moved to a much less expensive area this was an enormous financial gain. I also found a great job (though I officially 'retired' when we moved and am getting my pension as well as salary.) There is also a very good high school for my daughter, and a state university a couple blocks away.

I guess what I'm saying is that it wouldn't have been worth the work and hassle just to downsize, but the other factors made it very worthwhile.

Good luck!

[Radicchio]

Thanks, Gardenarian, for sharing your experience and observations. I think that is what we are hoping to accomplish when/if we downsize. I'm afraid we will regret it someday if we don't do this. However, we are taking our time and still looking at all options that would accomplish our goal. It is difficult, as the home we live in now was a custom build. Although not lavish, it is tailored to our preferences. I think we will need to make some compromises, but it will be worth it. DH got stuck for a while thinking we could have it all and downsize, but I think he's viewing it differently now.

[Geila]

For years Dh and I talked about downsizing and retiring somewhere else and we finally decided we are going to stay put! We have a 1460 sq ft single level ranch and we could easily live in about 850 sq ft, but we've also put lots of work into the house, landscaping, and community where we live. Our property taxes are incredibly low for the area - under $2500 a year due to prop 13 - and we have amazing weather pretty much year round so we can enjoy ourselves and the gardens, and the cost of utilities is very low. In the end we realized that since we can afford to stay here, and we like it so much, that the benefits of moving wouldn't be worth it for us.

We also have an amazing amount of resources and conveniences within walking distance and within a few miles so we figure our later years will be comfortable as well. It's been a huge relief to have that decision made and to feel permanently settled and to focus on daily living. It feels like our quality of life took a big jump! :)

[Miss Cellane]

I'm finding that when DH and I discuss what to do DH often starts out from the position that, while he's willing to downsize in terms of square feet, he seems to want all of the same custom features (and maybe some extra) that we have now. I keep reminding him that downsizing, by virtue of the name, implies giving up some things and it's just a matter of prioritizing what is most important at this stage of life. Thankfully, he's responsive to that idea, although it seems like I have to keep reminding him of it.



The two bolded bits really stuck out to me.

You and your DH have different definitions of downsizing. Both are good definitions, but in your case, they clash with each other.

Some people downsize so that they can have a smaller, but better house. That's your DH. Much less expensive to put hardwood floors in a 1,200 sq. foot house than a 4,000 sq. foot house, for example. You need less furniture, so you might be able to afford better furniture. So some people create tiny jewel boxes of a smaller home, but with lovely finishes, built-ins, etc. They have downsized and cut the expenses of a larger home, in order to get exactly what they want, in the confines of their new, smaller home.

Your definition of downsizing is different, but that doesn't make either of you wrong. It just means that you have different ideas of what downsizing means to each of you. From what I've read, you want to give up extra space, the utility costs and maintenance that go along with a larger home. That is just as valid a goal as your DH's.

So I'd discuss with your DH what custom features he wants and why. My feeling is that some of what he wants should be included in the new house--it will be his house, too, and just as you should get some of what you want, so should he. The fact that you have to keep reminding him of your definition of downsizing indicates to me that he doesn't want what you want--and so there need to be some conversations to get to a compromise.

[Radicchio]

Watergoddess, It sounds like you've made a wise decision---why give up something that works for you? We may come to that conclusion, as well, but I don't think so due to the issue of having three stories.

Miss Cellane, I absolutely agree with your points. I guess I didn't convey very well that we are working on prioritizing those "extras," so that we can consider not including some of them in order to stay within budget. Believe me, I want a few extras, too, that DH wants. I just don't think we need to insist on having everything we have here. I actually think that DH and I balance each other out. I would be willing to make more sacrifices for the sake of the budget than he, but then might regret not including certain extras later. He starts out from the standpoint of wanting to incorporate them all, and we will probably compromise and make sure we have the ones that we both consider important, as well as some that maybe just one of us rates as very, very important. So, in the end, we balance each other out.

[sweetana3]

Just talked to an 80+ woman while at a retreat. She wants to move from their large and not accessible home. The kitchen is downstairs due to the sloping lot. However, she cannot give up having a big wood working shop for her husband and wants a memory care facility part of the community. Note: she lives in northern Indiana and there are not a lot of any facilities. So they are staying.

I tried to explain memory care as being for those who truly are a danger to themselves or cannot be cared for at home. That type of facility is often not a direct part of a community. We found a large community with a big wood working shop just by talking to other people at the retreat but her desire for an included memory care (even though neither of them has any issue) is causing a stoppage in the whole idea of moving. I wonder if there is much more involved?

[Radicchio]

Sweetana, Maybe she or her husband has a history of dementia in the family? Or maybe she is sensing some possible memory problems in one of them? I think her experience illustrates what DH and I are doing---weighing the pros and cons of various options and realizing that we probably won't come up with something that satisfies all our "wants," but we will come to a mutual decision about what satisfies some of our "wants" and all of our genuine "needs." IMHO, that is something each of us does regularly---sort out what is truly a need and what is just something we want.

[Aqua Blue]

I sorta downsized two years ago. I went from a 1800 sf house to a 1400sf house. Cost of this house per sq ft was higher, so I guess I paid more for this house-dollar wise it was a break even for the actual cost and then I put up a fence which put it slightly over my previous house. But, I now have a fully handicap assessable house, with no stairs(I had lots of levels before), walk in shower, extra wide halls and door way, an attached 2 car garage(my old house the garage was unattached. It was built by the premier builder in town during the recession to keep his best employees employed. I am very happy with it and intend for it to be my last home.

[thunderseed]

I've always wanted to live in a really tiny off grid cabin, and I always thought it would be really cheap, but after I added up the costs I found out it would end up being more expensive than just living in this current home, even in terms of long term sustainability. Don't get me wrong, I love my current house, but I've often fantasized about living in one of those small off grid cabins with concrete floors and lots of windows for natural light, but turns out, a lot of problems with that plan. It's actually more expensive to be off grid here than it is to use electricity, but maybe in the future prices will go up in electricity and off grid alternatives will become cheaper here.

[jp1]

Solar panel prices have dropped by half in the last 4 years. A few more years and the price to go off grid will start to reach parity with the grid. At least in places where utility electricity is pricey.