How do I make cleaning more simple?

[thunderseed]

I am terrible when it comes to cleaning up after myself. It's a huge problem. I've gone and downsized everything, became minimal but yet there is still clutter. I swear that even when I go ultralight camping, I still make messes.

It all piles up after a few days because I take things out and tell myself I'll put it away later but later never comes until it's all a giant mess. When something has to go in the garbage, I think to myself, "the garbage can is so far away, I'll just leave it here on the counter..."

So are there any easier ways to make house cleaning easy and more simple? Is there a way to make it fun or enjoyable?
And how on earth do I motivate myself to actually want to clean up after myself in the moment?

For example, after I cook a meal and eat it, I don't feel like cleaning everything up afterwards, I just feel like relaxing. I know some people get up after a meal and clean everything up right away but I never feel like doing it so it doesn't get done.

[Gardnr]

Make it easy to cleanup.

Our trashcan is below our sink......trash goes straight there.

i have a compost bowl in our sink....while i'm cooking, food scrap goes straight there. When it's full, it goes out to the heap.

i have a clear small can next to my fridge. Recycling goes in there. open the mail-to the can. Open a can or rinse a glass jar, in the bin. When it's full, it goes out to the box or the curbside bin.

Meals? dishes go in the sink if not in the mood. once each day though, they get done. It just doesn't take that long.

When I use something, I put it away when finished.

Before I go to bed at night, everything goes in it's place.

I dust maybe 1x/2-3weeks. Vacuum? about the same-do it when it needs it.

Sounds like a lot of work? No. Likely adds 1minute to my day to put something in it's "right" place instead of laying around.

It's really a choice. I wake up to my comfy home each day and I enjoy it.

Build a routine of behavior. It is really as simple as it sounds.

[bekkilyn]

You could start by choosing one small, positive thing to do each day that will help towards your goal. For example, pick a small surface that can get cluttered and decide that no matter what else you do that day, you will keep that particular surface clear and clean. It could be the kitchen table, or a countertop...some place that no matter what the rest of the house looks like, you see that space and it is clear and uncluttered and soothing.

If you are motivated and end up doing more, then that's great, but if not, then that one place is clear and you have accomplished your daily goal. Once it's established itself into a habit, you can choose a different task, like making sure trash gets taken out, or the bed is made, or a different surface is kept clear.

If you aren't used to having these sorts of routines, it can be very overwhelming to try to do everything at once, so start small and simple, one small step at a time.

And when you're doing these things, know in your mind that you are helping to create a beautiful and sacred environment for yourself.

Often, I'll use these times of doing routine tasks as an opportunity to listen to something uplifting and/or interesting such as a spiritual podcast or a talk on mindfulness that I can't always do when occupied with something more intellectually challenging or when needing to attend to the needs of other people. You can create an environment for yourself where even cleaning up can be a relaxing and pleasant experience.

[creaker]

"because I take things out and tell myself I'll put it away later"

It's not simple, but I try to be more mindful about it. If I visualize all the frustration I've had dealing with the mess "later", it gives me more motivation to deal with it in the moment. But having done it more, I also get to visualize the good feelings I had when I did this and there was no mess to deal with, making it more motivating and overall a much more positive experience.

I'm not perfect at this by any means, but I find I'm more likely to seek out the good feelings and avoid the bad as long as I'm mindful of it.

[Lainey]

I made myself a simple rule: if I look at it 3 times, like "I should really put those towels away" then the 3rd time I have to do it. And it's like everyone says, it's only 1 minute but it's the satisfaction that will last the rest of the day.

[thunderseed]

Thank you everyone, I'll be trying all of this. My first day went well so far, I forced myself to clean up after my meals and it sure is nice to wake up to a clean kitchen. I have a mini compost can on my counter that my mom got me for my birthday and I just love it, it is super handy, I just fill it up and bring it out to my big worm bin outside the door, so I really don't have to go far to empty it.
I've even been mixing in citrus and onion scraps, which when I researched it people say worms don't like those things, but my worms seem to be loving it, they are breaking down all of the compost really fast.
I think I should do the same for garbage and recycling, find some mini cans. There is a big garbage can that has 3 separate cans in it so I could use it for recycling and garbage, but I never use it because it's by the door and while I'm cooking it always seems like so far away to get to. It's so big and bulky that there is no space to move it any closer.

It should be simple but for me it's really not, I've tried to get into the routine of cleaning regularily but it always fades out after a few days especially when I get really busy. I think the longest I've gone is a week or so and then I just ended up losing interest. I know having a clean house emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically benefits me in many ways yet it still seems difficult to motivate myself to do the chores, and it's not like my parent's never taught me these things, I think maybe my inner child is just rebelling haha.

And logically everyone is right, it's really not that much work to get it clean in the moment compared to putting it off until later. It's like those times where I accientally spill soup on something and it feels like too much work to do in the moment so I put it off, but then of course once it dries it's going to be even worse to clean up. I'll try being more mindful of that, maybe reminding myself how aweful it will be later on will work. Although I'm sure I will still try to procrastinate.

I like the ideas of starting small, that's probably a good approach for me. I might just start with trying to maintain one room at a time. I might try listening to spiritual podcasts too, usually I listen to really upbeat rap music during to give me more energy to get it done, but perhaps relaxing and focusing on spiritual things or even trying to meditate during would be more enjoyable.

I'll try the 3 times rule too, instead of looking at things a bajillion times lol.

[Miss Cellane]

I know the feeling. You come home from a day's work, perhaps having run errands on the way home (more work), then you cook dinner (more work), and then you just want to sit and do nothing for a bit, but instead there's the after-dinner cleanup to do--still *more* work. If you live alone, it seems the work never ends, and if you did all the work there is to do, you would never get any down time at all.

Bluntly, you have to make yourself to do the work.

But there are ways of making the work a bit easier.

1. Use "hidden" minutes. Those minutes while you are waiting for the coffee to be ready, the water to boil, the sauce to simmer--look around the kitchen and do something. Empty the dishwasher. Make tomorrow's lunch (bonus there that you can clean up after dinner and lunch making at the same time--one less cleanup in your day!). Write a shopping list.

2. Batch things together. Sunday night, I wash and peel and cut up enough raw vegetables for lunches for the week. Saves time hauling out and washing the peeler every night, plus I eat healthier every day. One cleanup for the week. My brother hauls out his ironing board on Sunday afternoon and irons 5 work shirts while watching sports. Then he pairs each shirt with a pair of pants and a tie, and he doesn't have to think about clothes for the rest of the week. Bonus that he only has to set up the ironing board once per week, not daily.

3. Make it very, very easy to put the stuff you use the most away. The kitchen utensils I use the most get put away by opening a drawer and dropping them into the right place in the drawer organizer. Boom. Put away done. The pots and pans you use the most, you should be able to put away/retrieve by opening a cabinet door and grabbing them, not by moving 6 things to get to the one you really need. Stuff you use less often can be tucked away, but the things you use the most should be front and center. Maybe get socks that are all one or two colors and instead of sorting and folding them, just throw them into a drawer and pull out two matching socks every morning.


The more you do the cleanup, the easier and faster it will get. At first, your after dinner clean up with be slow, as you have to stop and think, "Okay, dishes are washed. What next? Oh, wipe down counters. Okay, that done. Is there anything else? Oh, yeah, sweep the floor." But if you work at it, in a few weeks, you'll be washing the dishes, wiping the counters, sweeping the floor, cleaning the stove top, prepping coffee for tomorrow morning, feeding the cat and taking out the trash without thinking about it, because you'll know what to do. And it will take less time, because you don't think about what you're doing, you just do it, and because you will probably have worked out the fastest way to get things done.

And if you need to take a break between eating dinner and clearing up afterwards, then do just that. I'd suggest a time limit, like 30 - 60 minutes. But take that time and relax. Then go and do 30-60 minutes of housework. Then clock out of work for the rest of the day and chill.

I would also suggest the website/tumbler UFYH. They also have an app. Lists of things to do, short timed challenges to clean up specific messes. A challenge of the week to help with certain trouble spots. Warning: there are four-letter words on this site, including the title. (And no, the four-letter words are not "neat," or "tidy.")

[thunderseed]

I know the feeling. You come home from a day's work, perhaps having run errands on the way home (more work), then you cook dinner (more work), and then you just want to sit and do nothing for a bit, but instead there's the after-dinner cleanup to do--still *more* work. If you live alone, it seems the work never ends, and if you did all the work there is to do, you would never get any down time at all.

Bluntly, you have to make yourself to do the work.

But there are ways of making the work a bit easier.

1. Use "hidden" minutes. Those minutes while you are waiting for the coffee to be ready, the water to boil, the sauce to simmer--look around the kitchen and do something. Empty the dishwasher. Make tomorrow's lunch (bonus there that you can clean up after dinner and lunch making at the same time--one less cleanup in your day!). Write a shopping list.

2. Batch things together. Sunday night, I wash and peel and cut up enough raw vegetables for lunches for the week. Saves time hauling out and washing the peeler every night, plus I eat healthier every day. One cleanup for the week. My brother hauls out his ironing board on Sunday afternoon and irons 5 work shirts while watching sports. Then he pairs each shirt with a pair of pants and a tie, and he doesn't have to think about clothes for the rest of the week. Bonus that he only has to set up the ironing board once per week, not daily.

3. Make it very, very easy to put the stuff you use the most away. The kitchen utensils I use the most get put away by opening a drawer and dropping them into the right place in the drawer organizer. Boom. Put away done. The pots and pans you use the most, you should be able to put away/retrieve by opening a cabinet door and grabbing them, not by moving 6 things to get to the one you really need. Stuff you use less often can be tucked away, but the things you use the most should be front and center. Maybe get socks that are all one or two colors and instead of sorting and folding them, just throw them into a drawer and pull out two matching socks every morning.


The more you do the cleanup, the easier and faster it will get. At first, your after dinner clean up with be slow, as you have to stop and think, "Okay, dishes are washed. What next? Oh, wipe down counters. Okay, that done. Is there anything else? Oh, yeah, sweep the floor." But if you work at it, in a few weeks, you'll be washing the dishes, wiping the counters, sweeping the floor, cleaning the stove top, prepping coffee for tomorrow morning, feeding the cat and taking out the trash without thinking about it, because you'll know what to do. And it will take less time, because you don't think about what you're doing, you just do it, and because you will probably have worked out the fastest way to get things done.

And if you need to take a break between eating dinner and clearing up afterwards, then do just that. I'd suggest a time limit, like 30 - 60 minutes. But take that time and relax. Then go and do 30-60 minutes of housework. Then clock out of work for the rest of the day and chill.

I would also suggest the website/tumbler UFYH. They also have an app. Lists of things to do, short timed challenges to clean up specific messes. A challenge of the week to help with certain trouble spots. Warning: there are four-letter words on this site, including the title. (And no, the four-letter words are not "neat," or "tidy.")

Haha, that website is funny, it's exactly what I need! Thanks so much for all the advice too, it's all very helpful. I'll try the hidden minutes and batching things together and setting time limits, I'm going to go grocery shopping today so I'll try making a list of meals that I can make for the entire week or maybe I should start small and make meals ahead of time for just 3 days, that would be cool and would definitely save me some time. All of that multitasking sounds amazing, I guess with practice I will get better at it. Time management I guess is what they call it, and being organized and having a good idea of what I need to get done would be helpful. Thanks again!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Cleaning is it's own thing and most of the advice here, but I've come to think there might be something to organizing and not just minimalism. Like if you give up extreme minimalism, having 100 things, maybe there is something to having boxes or other storage in which you keep specific things rather than letting it randomly wander around and pile up in the house, and maybe that's way more realistic than dreaming of the day you only had 10 things so they couldn't possibly wander around the house. Obvious things amaze me, like how much better books look on a shelf (from the goodwill!) than they did piled on the floor. Ohhhh ahhhh ... amazing. But it does surprise me it's so much better (it's not exactly a book shelf, I dislike most bookshelves, it piles books horizontally).

[thunderseed]

Cleaning is it's own thing and most of the advice here, but I've come to think there might be something to organizing and not just minimalism. Like if you give up extreme minimalism, having 100 things, maybe there is something to having boxes or other storage in which you keep specific things rather than letting it randomly wander around and pile up in the house, and maybe that's way more realistic than dreaming of the day you only had 10 things so they couldn't possibly wander around the house. Obvious things amaze me, like how much better books look on a shelf (from the goodwill!) than they did piled on the floor. Ohhhh ahhhh ... amazing. But it does surprise me it's so much better (it's not exactly a book shelf, I dislike most bookshelves, it piles books horizontally).

Oh yeah I'm sure you can definitely make your house look minimal and zen with proper organization even if you own bajillions of objects. You would just have to be really good at being organized and hiding things and keeping them in storage. I don't think I could do that, I can't even do it while owning minimal things.

You should have seen my walk in closet room before I got rid of all my clothes and downsized, it was terrifying. I was the definition of a hoarder, just mountains of clothes. I had clothes from when I was thirteen years old and clothes that still had tags on them that I completely forgot about. Now I can fit all my clothes on one shelf and it has made doing laundry and finding something to wear much easier. But I'm still not good at organizing things. I know some people like to organize things based on colour even, but I'm not that creative I guess.

I could own only 3 objects with some food, but if I'm not organized and still messy it's going to look cluttered and messy regardless of how litte stuff I own. So I think being organized and clean is a huge important part of having a nice minimal looking house.

Honestly I get overwhelmed very easily just by looking at things, even neatly organized books. I got rid of most of my books, and am thinking of getting rid of them all, it's not like I ever read them more than once anyway.

I used to have a room that was painted red in the house, but the colour agitated me because it was too bright and aggressive. I think most people would think my house is boring and too cold since I've literally painted all the walls gray, but it's what soothes me. I don't like a lot of stuff or colours because it gets overwhelming.

Reducing stuff to bare minimum really helped but it didn't solve my clutter problem. I deal with clutter mostly from preparing meals, so all the vegetable scraps, or spilled liquids, and packaging or tins, (although I've tried to limit the amount of packaged foods I buy I can't live on just unpackaged foods) and I really love to buy those coconut waters so then I end up accumulating a bunch of those containers left around my house,
as well as dirty laundry. I don't own many clothes anymore but it doesn't take much to make the floor look cluttered.

Oh and I have/had the worst habit of buying bottled waters, despite having a really expensive and fancy water filter in my house. All I have to do is fill up the filter with tap water and then fill up my reausable water bottles, but nooooo, I got into a lazy habit of buying bottled water at the grocery store instead, and of course since I'm so messy, all of those plastic water bottles would just be laying around all over the place, it was terrible. So now I'm really trying to force myself to keep the water filter filled up regularily. The problem was I drink tons of water, over 4 litres of water a day so I just go so annoyed with having to fill up my reusable water bottles all the time, which is why I started buying those 2 liter jugs of water at the grocery store, and I just carry them around with me all day, then all the empties end up on the floor....

My embarassing messiness must come to an end once and for all.

[SteveinMN]

thunderseed, I've only read your Welcome thread and a couple of threads in this section of SLF, but I'm perceiving a lot of absolutism that I don't believe is serving you well. I want to be careful here because I don't want to seem confrontational (esp. to a newbie) but I am known for being direct, and "direct" does not have to mean "hurtful", so my apologies if this does come on too strong.

I read of many things you feel you "should" do. You've described several issues which you are treating symptomatically rather than out of an understanding of why you are doing them.

For example, extreme minimalism does not appear to have solved your clutter problem. It's a great minimalist goal to have one do-everything hold-it-all garbage can. But if what belongs in there never gets there, that minimalism is a hollow victory. It may be better to have bins for garbage and recycling in each room you use so it can be disposed of as soon as it's created. That's not extreme minimalism -- but it does address a habit that you claim bothers you.

And that's kind of my point -- in the service of one admirable goal, you're ignoring your own reality. It's admirable to be able to live on $75 a week (if I recall another thread correctly). But if your family is supplementing your income now at four times that amount, you're ignoring your own reality. You mentioned being on a disability income. I won't pry about that, but you must know that a disability strong enough to qualify for its own income stream comes with some limitations in living life -- and that those must be accommodated regardless of how ideal a goal may sound.

My wife likes to say, "Sometimes it costs more to be me." She's right. Sometimes it costs all of us to be who we are. Please accept that, try as you might to do something, it just may not be in the cards for that collection of beliefs and abilities and habits called thunderseed. Understanding yourself will be a great first step toward true simplicity.

[thunderseed]

thunderseed, I've only read your Welcome thread and a couple of threads in this section of SLF, but I'm perceiving a lot of absolutism that I don't believe is serving you well. I want to be careful here because I don't want to seem confrontational (esp. to a newbie) but I am known for being direct, and "direct" does not have to mean "hurtful", so my apologies if this does come on too strong.

I read of many things you feel you "should" do. You've described several issues which you are treating symptomatically rather than out of an understanding of why you are doing them.

For example, extreme minimalism does not appear to have solved your clutter problem. It's a great minimalist goal to have one do-everything hold-it-all garbage can. But if what belongs in there never gets there, that minimalism is a hollow victory. It may be better to have bins for garbage and recycling in each room you use so it can be disposed of as soon as it's created. That's not extreme minimalism -- but it does address a habit that you claim bothers you.

And that's kind of my point -- in the service of one admirable goal, you're ignoring your own reality. It's admirable to be able to live on $75 a week (if I recall another thread correctly). But if your family is supplementing your income now at four times that amount, you're ignoring your own reality. You mentioned being on a disability income. I won't pry about that, but you must know that a disability strong enough to qualify for its own income stream comes with some limitations in living life -- and that those must be accommodated regardless of how ideal a goal may sound.

My wife likes to say, "Sometimes it costs more to be me." She's right. Sometimes it costs all of us to be who we are. Please accept that, try as you might to do something, it just may not be in the cards for that collection of beliefs and abilities and habits called thunderseed. Understanding yourself will be a great first step toward true simplicity.

Thank you these are some things I have to think about, and I am aware that I have the tendency to ignore my own reality, ironically, aware of how unaware I can be. You sound a lot like my spirit guide, which is a good thing, he is very wise and tends to lecture me a lot when I do stupid things haha. I enjoy and appreciate directness, I know some people don't, but I do.

I guess I'm concerned about my lack of organization because I really have nothing else to focus on in my life, I guess you could say I'm kind of depressed right now and really want to appreciate my house. I suppose getting my house in order is something I can have control of, when everything else in my life seems out of control.
I would like to find simplicity, yet it seems so out of reach when my future is in dissaray, so I thought getting physical things in order might help.

I understand myself, I just don't always want to face it, if you know what I mean.

I've been given reason to worry about my security here, my parent's don't like giving me 300 dollars a month. They are supporting me temporarily and said they would continue until I find a job, but honestly I'm not going to find a job and we all know it and I'm not sure if one day they will just cut me off.
I am not attempting to find a job and I fear that one of these days they are going to stop helping me out.
I've accepted that a job is not in the cards for me, it's just not what I want to do, something I can't do in fact. There's a reason why im on disabliity welfare. I want to volunteer for a living, but it's not reasonable that I do that and also have this amazing house and all these amazing things at the same time, so I just keep thinking that I should go ahead and accept my fate as it is.
Honestly I wouldn't mind living in nothing but a tent and not having anything, but I've come to love this house and all the things that have been given to me... It worries me a lot. I don't think I will ever be able to keep it, if you know what I mean, because I don't want to work and I even if I did, I can't.

It's not admirable to live on 75$ a week, it's downright impossible and I really don't want to have to go to that, but I'm sort of preparing myself because I fear that it's going to happen. I mean, what happens if my parent's die or something, or they just decide to stop lending me money so that I can survive. I can't possibly rely on them for the rest of my life. And I have no idea where my life is leading me, I just don't know so I'm trying to be realistic.
Obviously if the only money I can get is 300 dollars a month then I would have to learn to survive on 75 dollars a week. I can't forsee me ever getting roomates to help pay costs, I tried going down that route, but I've lived alone for so long that I just couldn't do it.

I've dreamed about starting a non profit wilderness camp or resort, that way I could just live there and volunteer for a living, helping people.

I don't want to have nothing. I am very happy with the things i have right now, I just fear that I won't always have them because I'm unsure what's going to happen. I don't know why I've been so blessed with all these things and I haven't done anything for it.

[SteveinMN]

thunderseed, a saying comes to mind: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Changing nothing substantial in your life right now pretty much guarantees that when things hit the fan (they always do) you're going to have to decide out of desperation, not out of understanding and choice and opportunity.

Ideal or not, the developed world functions on money. Barter is essentially trading items instead of numbers on a piece of paper. But, somehow, you're going to need to ensure a future for yourself beyond welfare/disability. I'm kind of puzzled that you don't like to work but that you'd like to start a wilderness camp or resort. Unless you've got buckets of money to buy the property and maintain it and to shower on a staff that makes it all happen, you will have to work to make that happen. And the buckets of money aren't going to come unless you work for them somehow.

You mentioned in another post that you're an artist but that you don't ilke to sell your art. This is a gift: you have artistic ability and it appears you're good enough that people want to pay you for your art. But you refuse? Here's an income stream just waiting to happen. Why forgo it?

A friend of mine is a fine-art painter. Some of her work goes for thousands of dollars. Right in her studio is a plaque with "The Rules of Art" Rule #6 (or somesuch) is "Art is a job." Without a patronage system like they had back in the 18th century, few artists can just do their thing and wait for the world to find them. They have to buy food and pay for art supplies and maybe even studio space. Many artists never break through to even the degree my friend has. If this is a fairly painless way of making the money you say you want, why not pursue it?

If you don't like the business end of it, you may have to stick that out for a while until you can hire/barter with someone to do that work for you while you enter your studio and create. But many who've started their own business can relate to countless hours spent doing the back-office work so that someday their business could be big enough to let them get back to what they liked to do best. Part of the territory.

I think you also need to reflect and decide whether your discomfort about an uncertain future outweighs your discomfort at working somewhere anywhere. I also think it would be helpful to find a trusted friend -- or, better, a therapist -- with whom you could discuss your feelings of ennui and lack of interest in life events in which you haven't even participated. As others have mentioned, this very well could be depression -- all of it -- and identifying it, addressing it metabolically if necessary, and moving on is essential to a fulfilling life. At 27, pardon my saying so, you haven't had that fulfilling life yet.

[bekkilyn]

Depression doesn't necessarily consist of sitting around feeling sad all the time, so it's possible you could have it and not be aware you have it since there are many other symptoms. You are also very anxious about what *might* happen in the future rather than enjoying what you have and are experiencing in the here and now. I am "guilty" of it too and it is something I am working on in my own life. All that worry can be very de-energizing.

I don't recall your mentioning your type of disability, so not sure why you would be able to do volunteer work, but not other kind of work, but if you get into a situation where you think you can work, you could try working for some of the wilderness camps that already exist, or maybe your town has a parks and recreation department that may need some help, and you could bring in a bit of income and help restore your confidence.

[thunderseed]

Well it's not easy to explain and some of it is unexplainable, and spiritual in nature. You see, life isn't always logical, especially not when it comes to following your heart and your true calling.

Quite frankly, I know exactly what I want in life and exactly who I am and who I wish to become. I am a spiritual Humanitarian and that is what I want for my future as well. I have made the decision and choice to not support money because I believe money is the root of all evil.
I believe that as long as I follow my heart I will be provided for by the universe, or God or whatever you call it. And surprisingly that has been the case. I have a whole house to myself, there are times I really cannot believe how blessed I have been. So I do have enough trust to keep following this plan of following my heart, despite how unlogical it is.

My don't get me wrong. I am an analytical person in nature and I have a lot of qualms about this plan. I have worries that it's not going to work out. I feel like I should be more logical.

But it's honestly not what is in the cards for me. There's no way I can explain it in a way that makes sense to anyone, beleive me I have tried.

Basically, I have fought and fought and fought so much to try to take control of my own life and get a job. I've actually tried to settle and get many different jobs I wouldn't really be passionate about. I have tried so many times but no matter what, it's like some giant universal force prevents me from that path. It's not me. I've even had other people help me with these goals and they too become astonished at all the WEIRD things that happen to prevent it from ever happening. A lot of people tell me, don't give up, but the fact is they don't understand all the strange things that happen when I try to go somewhere I'm not supposed to go. I'm literally talking about pianos falling on my head out of nowhere, that kind of thing. When divine intervention happens on a regular basis, you would be oblivious and stupid to not realize something is trying to give you a sign that's it's just not meant to be. That's what I finally figured out after years of trying to bash my head into a wall repeatedly. It's just not meant for me.

I am currently following the law of attraction. It's how the most successful and wealthiest people attract opportunities into their lives. The idea is that you have to live the way you expect to be. So, if I want to volunteer for a living, that is what I am doing now.

That is my life purpose. I did not come here to work, doing things I hate doing. I came here to help people, for free.

Anyway, as you can see, it's not my decision to decide to change anything in my life. Everytime I try to, bad things happen to stop me. I am meant to be where I am now, and meant to be doing the things I long to do.

It's not puzzling once you realize I said Non profit... that means charity. You can start non profits up with no cost because they are all government funded. It's all volunteer work. Anyway, it doesn't really matter how it comes into play, because when it comes to the law of attraction, all you are supposed to do is envision what you want and believe it is coming to you. The opportunities will come, and then you can do all the work to get there, you just have to make sure to see when the opportunities are presenting themselves to you. So if that makes any sense, I don't support money, because it's evil. I want to attract a future of owning a non profit charity, thus I need to live like that in the present. Which means, I am not allowed to make a profit for anything that I do, and everything that I do will serve a greater purpose - my purpose.
Likewise, everything I do in my life are things I am passionate about. For example the novel I recently wrote is a self help book, I gave it away for free on smashwords, one of the only things i like about the internet by the way lol, and I believe that by following out my purpose and what I beleive in my heart, that I will attract the life that I believe is destined for me.
Granted, it may not turn out like I imagine it to be but I have a pretty firm understanding of what I am meant to do here.

Obviously, I could get the non profit charity idea started now, all I would have to do is collect a bunch of people who want in on the plan and then bring it to all the non profit organizations around town, and then get funding, etc but it's not what I've been called to do. I have been told by my spirit guides to wait....

And I hate waiting. I haven't seen any opportunities yet, but I did find a Scouts program recently, so I'm looking into volunteering for that. It seems like it would be getting me closer to my charity goals, giving me more experience closer to what my dreams are.




thunderseed, a saying comes to mind: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Changing nothing substantial in your life right now pretty much guarantees that when things hit the fan (they always do) you're going to have to decide out of desperation, not out of understanding and choice and opportunity.

Ideal or not, the developed world functions on money. Barter is essentially trading items instead of numbers on a piece of paper. But, somehow, you're going to need to ensure a future for yourself beyond welfare/disability. I'm kind of puzzled that you don't like to work but that you'd like to start a wilderness camp or resort. Unless you've got buckets of money to buy the property and maintain it and to shower on a staff that makes it all happen, you will have to work to make that happen. And the buckets of money aren't going to come unless you work for them somehow.

You mentioned in another post that you're an artist but that you don't ilke to sell your art. This is a gift: you have artistic ability and it appears you're good enough that people want to pay you for your art. But you refuse? Here's an income stream just waiting to happen. Why forgo it?

A friend of mine is a fine-art painter. Some of her work goes for thousands of dollars. Right in her studio is a plaque with "The Rules of Art" Rule #6 (or somesuch) is "Art is a job." Without a patronage system like they had back in the 18th century, few artists can just do their thing and wait for the world to find them. They have to buy food and pay for art supplies and maybe even studio space. Many artists never break through to even the degree my friend has. If this is a fairly painless way of making the money you say you want, why not pursue it?

If you don't like the business end of it, you may have to stick that out for a while until you can hire/barter with someone to do that work for you while you enter your studio and create. But many who've started their own business can relate to countless hours spent doing the back-office work so that someday their business could be big enough to let them get back to what they liked to do best. Part of the territory.

I think you also need to reflect and decide whether your discomfort about an uncertain future outweighs your discomfort at working somewhere anywhere. I also think it would be helpful to find a trusted friend -- or, better, a therapist -- with whom you could discuss your feelings of ennui and lack of interest in life events in which you haven't even participated. As others have mentioned, this very well could be depression -- all of it -- and identifying it, addressing it metabolically if necessary, and moving on is essential to a fulfilling life. At 27, pardon my saying so, you haven't had that fulfilling life yet.

[pony mom]

Marie Kondo suggests putting things in places that make it the easiest to put away. When going to get something, you're motivated to get it. Where's the motivation to put it back?

[thunderseed]

Depression doesn't necessarily consist of sitting around feeling sad all the time, so it's possible you could have it and not be aware you have it since there are many other symptoms. You are also very anxious about what *might* happen in the future rather than enjoying what you have and are experiencing in the here and now. I am "guilty" of it too and it is something I am working on in my own life. All that worry can be very de-energizing.

I don't recall your mentioning your type of disability, so not sure why you would be able to do volunteer work, but not other kind of work, but if you get into a situation where you think you can work, you could try working for some of the wilderness camps that already exist, or maybe your town has a parks and recreation department that may need some help, and you could bring in a bit of income and help restore your confidence.

Depression never consists of sitting around feeling sad all the time. Depression is a mental illness, not an emotion. It makes people feel nothing, not sadness. A depressed person would give anything to feel any emotion at all, even sadness.
Sadness is an emotion - a perfectly normal emotion and response to things that happen in life.
Depression is a chemical brain imbalance that causes a person to feel numb, or paralyzed. I have had depression in my past, but I have recovered from it. I am far from depressed, I work out all the time and feel lots of healthy emotions.
I am quite self aware enough to realize that emotions are natural. Dissaray in ones life can create a whole bunch of emotions.

The reason I am miserable is because of a life situation, not a chemical brain imbalance. Sometimes I use the word depressed to mean sadness, like most people do, but in actuality depression is a mental illness not actually sadness.

[thunderseed]

Marie Kondo suggests putting things in places that make it the easiest to put away. When going to get something, you're motivated to get it. Where's the motivation to put it back?

Hmmm, interesting thought. I mean, it's already pretty easy to put them away, but maybe I can make the place where the item belongs a lot funner so that I will want to put it back lol. I'm going to look up some cool fun storage ideas!

[JaneV2.0]

I didn't come here to work, either. I guess no one explained that part to me. :treadmill:

It seems sad to me that so few of us find our "right livelihood." It seems like doing so should be part of a wide-ranging education.

[thunderseed]

I didn't come here to work, either. I guess no one explained that part to me. :treadmill:

It seems sad to me that so few of us find our "right livelihood." It seems like doing so should be part of a wide-ranging education.

I am hearing more and more of people who are finding their callings and people who are teaching their kids to strive for their dreams.

[Teacher Terry]

It is not healthy to depend upon others to take care of you. Unless your parents are rich you are a burden on them. Voc REhab is a fed program run by the states to help people with disabilities return to work. However, you have to want to work. If you don't want to work seek mental health treatment for your problem. Again unless your parents are wealthy & you are not hurting their chances to retire what you are doing is not right.

[Kestra]

I am hearing more and more of people who are finding their callings and people who are teaching their kids to strive for their dreams.

Yes, and callings and dreams can involve making money and be self-sufficient.

[thunderseed]

It is not healthy to depend upon others to take care of you. Unless your parents are rich you are a burden on them. Voc REhab is a fed program run by the states to help people with disabilities return to work. However, you have to want to work. If you don't want to work seek mental health treatment for your problem. Again unless your parents are wealthy & you are not hurting their chances to retire what you are doing is not right.

I think there should be a balance, with anything. It's not healthy to be completely reliant on anyone and it's not healthy to be an independent hermit and never accept help from anyone either. And I think it also depends on the situation. Family is supposed to take care of eachother. Hopefully you would take care of your children, grandparent's or relatives if they needed help too. If not, I think you have your priorities messed up, especially if money is more important than the people you love. I don't live in the states.... I want to work, I just don't want to work for money. Right now my parent's are able to give me a few hundred bucks a week, it was their idea not mine, but if the day comes that they can't or won't, I am preparing for it... which I've already said. I would much rather live with nothing and be happy doing what I do (and I have so I know I can do it just fine) than have all these things and be miserable. I know they don't want to give me money forever. And also, my parent's are already retired. They are by no means wealthy but they have enough money to help both me and my sister (my sister is living in victoria and is trying to start up a business but it's not going well) and they can also afford to go on many vacations all the time as well as the fact that they own many houses and even a peice of land.

And come to think of it I don't see why it's so unheard of to let someone else take care of you, since a lot of people do it and they aren't unhealthy people, they are compatible with their partners. For example if you are submissive, find someone dominant.
My mom does it. She doesn't work and relied on my dad to do the working all her life, and honestly I don't see what's wrong with that, raising kids is a tough job on its own. It's not like both partners have to get jobs. Hopefully you would support your partner at least, or at least share your things with them, although I know some people that don't do either and are really territorial over their own things even when they live with their spouse, it's weird.
Even in retirement my dad still goes out and farms for free, because he loved his job. Some people are meant to have paying jobs, others are meant for humanitarian work ... We don't all have to be the same and follow the same rules for living our lives.

[thunderseed]

Yes, and callings and dreams can involve making money and be self-sufficient.

No.... realllllly? :0!

[ApatheticNoMore]

If you don't want to work seek mental health treatment for your problem.

personally I think if you want to work you need mental health treatment.

Almost everyone hates working. It's not unique to do so, it's everybody. Almost everyone would quit their job if they won the lottery. The way people always talk that if the lottery jackpot was their ticket they wouldn't show up on Monday, illustrates enough about what everyone really thinks about their job. Just like very few people really like to go to the dentist, to do their taxes, colonoscopies, getting surgery, bad traffic, going on a diet. Noone likes those things. People dread the Monday, looks forward to Friday. About maybe 10-20% of the population can have enjoyable jobs. The rest of people have to have jobs that basically suck. Now one can make the best of the suck such as it is, maybe one takes breaks and enjoys the breaks, drinks a tea they like at work, brings a nice lunch, or finds the least boring boring thing to work on (if the job allows that much choice), socializes with coworkers to relieve some boredom etc.. But it gonna kinda suck even so. Really I could tolerate the suck much better if it wasn't so many hours of it ..... it's endless.

[thunderseed]

personally I think if you want to work you need mental health treatment.

Almost everyone hates working. It's not unique to do so, it's everybody. Almost everyone would quit their job if they won the lottery. The way people always talk that if this lottery jackpot was their ticket they wouldn't show up on Monday, illustrates enough about what everyone really thinks about their job. Just like very few people really like to go to the dentist, to do their taxes, colonoscopies, getting surgery, bad traffic, going on a diet. Noone likes those things. People dread the Monday, looks forward to Friday. About maybe 10-20% of the population can have enjoyable jobs. The rest of people have to have jobs that basically suck. Now one can make the best of the suck such as it is, maybe one takes breaks and enjoys the breaks, drinks a tea they like at work, brings a nice lunch, or finds the least boring boring thing to work on (if the job allows that much choice), socializes with coworkers to relieve some boredom etc.. But it gonna kinda suck even so.

Haha true yet there are some people who really enjoy the suckiest jobs in the world. I don't know how they do it. To each his own, I guess. I swear if anyone's unhappy with their job, there's always time to make a career change, there's even elder college now.

[thunderseed]

Anyway does anyone have any more organization tips for me? It's the only reason I joined here, want to learn some ideas on how to be more minimal, less messy and live more simply.

It wasn't exceptional today. I failed on a few things actually. I took out a journal to write a list, then went grocery shopping and had a plan to make some new recipes sometime today since I got a new cookbook and was pretty excited to try some new things... I was pretty bummed out to see that my groceries costed 100 dollars today and there's really not a lot of things there, I want to try and see if I can make it last a whole week but I'm not sure if that's possible.
When I got back I saw that I never put the journal and pen back, it was still laying on the table. So I put it back finally... On the plus side I put all the groceries away properly. But I never got around to making any new recipes tonight, I just ate some leftovers and lost the desire to cook. And I didn't clean up my plate yet and don't feel like doing it. It's not going so well.... I'm trying everything everyone suggested and I still don't feel like cleaning and cooking, I just hate those two things, I suppose I can just clean it in the morning when I have breakfast.
I wish I could learn how to enjoy cooking and cleaning, maybe it's just not possible and I have to keep forcing myself to do it.

[Miss Cellane]

Thunderseed--I *never* feel like doing certain household tasks. Food shopping--I hate it. It is a tremendous amount of work feeding yourself. You have to make a meal plan, read the sales circulars, make a shopping list, shop (which is a huge pain in the neck), lug it all home, and put it away. And after all that, you still don't have much food you can eat! Now you have to prep, cook, and clean up! And I'm not all that thrilled doing laundry, either.

Some tasks I just do. Whether I feel like doing them or not. I make my bed in the morning because while I don't necessarily enjoy making the bed, I do appreciate how much nicer my bedroom looks with the bed made. Days I leave the bed unmade, I find I avoid using the room because it just looks messy.

I have also streamlined the bed-making process as much as possible. Fitted sheet, flat sheet, a blanket in winter, and a thick, puffy comforter that hides any wrinkles if I don't pull up the blanket and sheet perfectly. Then I plop my two pillows at the head of the bed and I am done.

I don't enjoy washing dishes, but I make myself wash them every night, because I really like it in the morning when the sink is empty and I don't have to deal with dishes first thing.

Putting stuff away right after I use it means that it is where it is supposed to be next time I need it--and I don't have to hunt through piles of stuff for half an hour to find it.

So it's not so much that I enjoy the housework, but that I enjoy the results of doing the housework. So I focus on that, not the boring chores. The more you do these types of chores, the more of a habit they will become, and you will do them without thinking about them. That's when they become easier. But it takes a while to reach that point.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I suppose you could give up on the chores that don't really matter (making the bed would be a prime example). Do you or anyone else who might see it care about it? And at least focus on the chores that do matter first: yes cleaning the dishes would be one of them. I've heard they make things like dishwashers these days, but I wouldn't know (I don't have one). Although doing them by hand is probably least ecological impact (might use more water, but it doesn't involve manufacturing a dishwasher ....). And at least do the chores in order or importance for keeping the house sanitary.

[lessisbest]

Not being employed still requires work too, because there are always things that need doing whether you are paid to do them or not. It's part of having self-respect. Deciding NOT to do regular household tasks leads to chaos. Living in an unorganized and confusing state is unstable and dissatisfying - a total negative way of life.

It's just as easy to develop a "good" habit as it is to develop a "bad" habit. It's not about NOT liking or LIKING to do something. It is what it is - part of growing up and being responsible. I had to remind my son from the time he was 4-years old (which is when you make your bed yourself at our house, you start at 2-years making it with help) until he was 9-years old to make his bed. I didn't require much - pull up the blankets and quilt or bedspread and toss the pillow on the top. When he realized it took him less than a minute out of his day to accomplish this task, he realized how dumb he had been about trying to get out of making his bed, and he has continued to make sure his bed is made daily. He also realized how much nicer it is to go to bed when the bed is made, and how he disliked staying all night with his friends who lived in a "mess".

The same goes for doing dishes. We do after-meal clean-up in less than 10-minutes, even when we do all the dishes by hand. We only run our dishwasher once a week.

I've know people who perpetually purchase more clothes just because they can't find the time to do laundry, which only exacerbates the problem by adding more clothes. The family who taught my son violin lessons had no less that 12-inches of dirty laundry heaped on their laundry room floor. I took care of two young boys one summer, and they had two folding banquet-size tables heaped with clothes that needed ironing because they were too busy to remove clothes from the dryer in a timely manner. I told them I would do the ironing for 25-cents a piece, and got "rich" for a 15-year old just doing their ironing.

Life happens, you can make it good or dismal.

[thunderseed]

Thunderseed--I *never* feel like doing certain household tasks. Food shopping--I hate it. It is a tremendous amount of work feeding yourself. You have to make a meal plan, read the sales circulars, make a shopping list, shop (which is a huge pain in the neck), lug it all home, and put it away. And after all that, you still don't have much food you can eat! Now you have to prep, cook, and clean up! And I'm not all that thrilled doing laundry, either.

Some tasks I just do. Whether I feel like doing them or not. I make my bed in the morning because while I don't necessarily enjoy making the bed, I do appreciate how much nicer my bedroom looks with the bed made. Days I leave the bed unmade, I find I avoid using the room because it just looks messy.

I have also streamlined the bed-making process as much as possible. Fitted sheet, flat sheet, a blanket in winter, and a thick, puffy comforter that hides any wrinkles if I don't pull up the blanket and sheet perfectly. Then I plop my two pillows at the head of the bed and I am done.

I don't enjoy washing dishes, but I make myself wash them every night, because I really like it in the morning when the sink is empty and I don't have to deal with dishes first thing.

Putting stuff away right after I use it means that it is where it is supposed to be next time I need it--and I don't have to hunt through piles of stuff for half an hour to find it.

So it's not so much that I enjoy the housework, but that I enjoy the results of doing the housework. So I focus on that, not the boring chores. The more you do these types of chores, the more of a habit they will become, and you will do them without thinking about them. That's when they become easier. But it takes a while to reach that point.

The thing is, I am certain I can train myself to enjoy it, I just need some ideas on how.

My mom apparently enjoys doing housework and cooking all day long though it never used to be that way, according to her, she used to be messier than I am. She learned to enjoy it, but she couldn't tell me exactly how that happened.

I have been cleaning since I was a child, and it has never become habitual.

I form habits or routines when I establish regular practices that I enjoy, and I happen to enjoy many things that require order and hard work.

And also, I have successfuly trained myself to enjoy cooking more than I used to. I made it enjoyable by treating myself to brand new non-toxic pots and pans, and I got a hanging rack for them. Something as simple as that made cooking a positive experience for me because putting the pots away is fun, I get to hang them up instead of drop them into some drawer. Also, I think someone was right about the fact that I need the kind of organization where I can actually see the things I have, I don't like things that are stored in drawers because I never see them, therfore never use them. But also, a huge reason why cooking was a negative experience was because I was doing it wrong. I would crank it up to high heat and ruin my pots and pans because everything would burn and stick on it. I never cared enough to use non-scratch pads or non-scratch cooking untensils, but once I got these fancy new pots and pans, that changed. They are soooo easy to clean when I use them right. All I have to do is wait for them to cool down then rinse them with water and give them a light brush with a non-scratch cloth pad. I make sure to take good care of them, and then cooking is very enjoyable.
It was such a horrible experience before because everything would stick to the frying pan and wouldn't cook very well, but all I had to do was learn some simple tips on how to use and look after my cookware properly.

Then I started enjoying making meals more, and even though I live alone I sometimes light a candle and eat at the table all fancy, or sometimes I watch a movie with dinner, which motivates me more.

And yesterday I bought a new cook book because I'm really excited to try some new recipes, so I should probably clarify that I don't hate cooking anymore, I used to and the odd time I'll think that I don't want to do it, and sometimes when I'm really busy it seems like a chore, but I absolutely love to eat food and I've been learning how to enjoy the culinary experience gradually. I was bummed out that I didn't get to it yesterday but it's not like I had to anyway, because I still had leftover pasta that I made the day before.
Today I am going to be making healthy organic artichoke dip with homemade sweet potato chips as well as a cauliflower soup, or perhaps I will decide to make the wrap rolls, I am going to be making the tortillas out of oat flour the same way I make crepes, so hopefully that turns out okay.

Anyways, I like learning new things and challenging myself. I know it's possible to make boring things seem more exciting, because I've done it with other things.

I guess I should say also, that it's not like I truly hate cleaning, because every week or so I have to do it because everything clutters up. I take a cleaning day, listen to some music and really enjoy it because I've always liked doing hard labour as perfect and as fast as I can, but that's not what I want to do.

I want to learn how to pick up after myself and stop the messes from building up in the first place. I want to correct my messy behaviour, so that I don't create messes, then I'll never have to do huge cleaning days and I won't have to live in a giant mess all the other days.

If there was a way I could train myself to enjoy picking up after myself and cleaning the dishes after I'm done eating or putting garbage in a garbage can, it would be awesome.
I think I really should take the other persons advice, about keeping mini garbage cans and recycle bins in all the rooms of my house. I might even get some mini laundry hampers so that my used towels and dirty clothes don't end up on the floor.

I don't know... I just bought this snifty scrubby thing that you can put dishsoap in the handle, so it makes washing the dishes a lot funner, but it's still not fun enough...
If I can make cooking with my pots and pans fun simply by buying really nice pots and a cool pot hanging rack, then I should be able to find a creative way to make the dish washing experience better. Maybe I could invest in a really awesome faucet or perhaps I can find a better way to store my dishes so that I will enjoy putting them away once I'm done using them. Right now they are just on a lonely shelf.
I don't have many dishes, just a lonely plate, a lonely saucer, and a lonely bowl, so there has got to be something cool I can do with that.

Ohhh, I also successfully made putting my towels in storage really fun, so I love to do it now. I put some wooden boxes in the shelf in my bathroom, and roll up the towels all fancy, it looks really good and professional and it is fun to do, so I absolutely love putting the towels away after I've washed them.

I'm creative when it comes to being artistic... but when it comes to trying to find ideas like that, I am not good at it at all. I found the towel idea on pinterest. It's simple, you know, but I never would have thought of it.

And believe me, I've tried looking up other fun strorage ideas on pinterest and ways to make doing the dishes funner, but I can't find anything else so far.

[bekkilyn]

Thich Naht Hahn on Washing Dishes:


Thirty years ago, when I was still a novice at Tu Hieu Pagoda, washing the dishes was hardly a pleasant task. During the Season of Retreat when all the monks returned to the monastery, two novices had to do all the cooking and wash the dishes for sometimes well over one hundred monks.
There was no soap. We had only ashes, rice husks, and coconut husks, and that was all. Cleaning such a high stack of bowls was a chore, especially during the winter when the water was freezing cold. Then you had to heat up a big pot of water before you could do any scrubbing.
Nowadays one stands in a kitchen equipped with liquid soap, special scrubpads, and even running hot water which makes it all the more agreeable. It is easier to enjoy washing the dishes now. Anyone can wash them in a hurry, then sit down and enjoy a cup of tea afterwards. I can see a machine for washing clothes, although I wash my own things out by hand, but a dishwashing machine is going just a little too far!
While washing the dishes one should only be washing the dishes, which means that while washing the dishes one should be completely aware of the fact that one is washing the dishes.

At first glance, that might seem a little silly: why put so much stress on a simple thing? But that’s precisely the point. The fact that I am standing there and washing these bowls is a wondrous reality. I’m being completely myself, following my breath, conscious of my presence and conscious of my thoughts and actions. There’s no way I can be tossed around mindlessly like a bottle slapped here and there on the waves.

In the United States, I have a close friend name Jim Forest. When I first met him eight years ago, he was working with the Catholic Peace Fellowship. Last winter, Jim came to visit. I usually wash the dishes after we've finished the evening meal, before sitting down an d drinking tea with everyone also. One night, Jim asked if he might do the dishes. I said, "Go ahead, but if you wash the dishes you must know the way to wash them." Jim replied, "Come on, you think I don't know how to wash the dishes?" I answered, "There are two ways to wash the dishes. The first is to wash the dishes in order to have clean dishes and the second is to wash the dishes in order to wash the dishes." Jim was delighted and said, "I choose the second way -- to wash the dishes to wash the dishes." From then on, Jim knew how to wash the dishes. I transferred the "responsibility" to him for an entire week.

If while washing the dishes, we think only of the cup of tea that awaits us, thus hurrying to get the dishes out of the way as if they were a nuisance, then we are not “washing the dishes to wash the dishes.” What’s more, we are not alive during the time we are washing the dishes.
In fact we are completely incapable of realizing the miracle of life while standing at the sink. If we can’t wash the dishes, the chances are we won’t be able to drink our tea either. While drinking the cup of tea, we will only be thinking of other things, barely aware of the cup in our hands. Thus we are sucked away into the future – and we are incapable of actually living one minute of life.

[thunderseed]

Not being employed still requires work too, because there are always things that need doing whether you are paid to do them or not. It's part of having self-respect. Deciding NOT to do regular household tasks leads to chaos. Living in an unorganized and confusing state is unstable and dissatisfying - a total negative way of life.

It's just as easy to develop a "good" habit as it is to develop a "bad" habit. It's not about NOT liking or LIKING to do something. It is what it is - part of growing up and being responsible. I had to remind my son from the time he was 4-years old (which is when you make your bed yourself at our house, you start at 2-years making it with help) until he was 9-years old to make his bed. I didn't require much - pull up the blankets and quilt or bedspread and toss the pillow on the top. When he realized it took him less than a minute out of his day to accomplish this task, he realized how dumb he had been about trying to get out of making his bed, and he has continued to make sure his bed is made daily. He also realized how much nicer it is to go to bed when the bed is made, and how he disliked staying all night with his friends who lived in a "mess".

The same goes for doing dishes. We do after-meal clean-up in less than 10-minutes, even when we do all the dishes by hand. We only run our dishwasher once a week.

I've know people who perpetually purchase more clothes just because they can't find the time to do laundry, which only exacerbates the problem by adding more clothes. The family who taught my son violin lessons had no less that 12-inches of dirty laundry heaped on their laundry room floor. I took care of two young boys one summer, and they had two folding banquet-size tables heaped with clothes that needed ironing because they were too busy to remove clothes from the dryer in a timely manner. I told them I would do the ironing for 25-cents a piece, and got "rich" for a 15-year old just doing their ironing.

Life happens, you can make it good or dismal.

Just because I don't get paid for what I do currently doesn't mean I don't work. I work a lot which is exactly why when I am home I like to relax.

That's the thing, for me it is about not liking or liking to do something. If you don't find a way to enjoy it, you are just going to a) stress yourself out which is unhealthy, or b) fail, just like all the other people in this world who fail their resolutions.

Most people who have commented here don't enjoy household chores but the majority so far take steps to either make it easier or more enjoyable.

When I was a kid, I had chores to, except for I was raised on a dairy farm, so I had to work a lot harder than that. I can effortlessly do chores and hard labour, but doesn't change the fact that I don't like to pick up after myself. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but when I'm busy doing other stuff, it doesn't seem like an important priority, despite how much I would like to not live in a mess.

It doesn't take long, but I still don't feel like doing it after I've eaten. LoL I just don't know... there has got to be something I can do to motivate myself. I tried the time limit thing, but after the time limit I was all relaxed and didn't want to get up lol.

[thunderseed]

Thich Naht Hahn on Washing Dishes:

That's cool, so basically using it as a time to be zen and in the moment!

[awakenedsoul]

I think it would help you to learn to clean as you go. I do the dishes after each meal. It only takes me a few minutes to wash them, rinse them, and place them on the drying rack. I also put the dishes away a few times a day. That way they don't pile up on the drying rack.

A lot of creative people have a tendency to not finish what they start. They end up with piles everywhere. If you start to procrastinate, then the mess builds up and you start to avoid it. This morning I went through some paperwork on my kitchen table. It just needed to be sorted and filed. It didn't take long. I also had some herbs drying on the counter. I put them into glass jars, composted the stems, and put everything away. I want the kitchen table to be clean and clear, so that I can eat there. If I'm not careful, it becomes a storage area. A lot of these jobs only take about five to fifteen minutes.

Right now I'm finishing up a baby blanket for my neighbor. Once It's done, I need to fold it up, and store it in my knitting bag. My knitting bag has a place. If I don't do that, the blanket, yarn, scissors, crochet hook, and yarn bowl are just sitting in the living room. It looks neater and tidier to have things in their place.

Not all of this is going to be fun. But, it's rewarding and healthy to have a clean, clear living space. I listen to podcasts as I'm doing my housekeeping. It keeps my mind engaged, and I still get my housework done. I also make lists and tick things off as I finish.

I find I really feel better when I tackle and accomplish what I need to get done in the home. I really like structure and order. It's discipline. A messy house makes me anxious and edgy.

[iris lilies]

That's cool, so basically using it as a time to be zen and in the moment!

I think that washing dishes by hand, if you have enough of them, CAN be a zen exercise. I think the warm water exacerbates the experience.

but I think that most household chores don't provide a zen experience for this simple reason: they aren't long enough to get into a Zone of repetitive motion.

this may be why I much prefer gardening to housework. Baby, I have A LOT of weeding to do, easily two hours a day of that. And then if I am sick and tired of weeding I can haul mulch and spread it, that's one of my favorite tasks. More zen work. And then after its all done I can sit back and view my nice, neat, tidy gardens.

While I do take satisfaction in a clean house, I do not enjoy the short bursts of work I have to do to maintain it. I do like sweeping our first floor, but that's barely a ten minute job. Sweeping is very zen. There are not many household jobs that take more than ten minutes, and for that we can thank modern technology. But what have we lost in exchange?

A previous poster mentioned a group of chores that clean up the kitchen, and how it's important to practice them so that they become automatic. That's a great way to view kitchen cleanup, and I can see that I do not have my end-of-day chores routinized like this. I DO have my a.m. pet chores grouped so I can understand the general principle, it's a good one.

[larknm]

One thing I do is not have things made of fabric because they attract dust. I don't have things that are for decorativeness. I cut down on as many other things as I can. A bunch of stuff around would really cut down on my ability to focus.

[iris lilies]

One thing I do is not have things made of fabric because they attract dust. I don't have things that are for decorativeness. I cut down on as many other things as I can. A bunch of stuff around would really cut down on my ability to focus.

Agreed, so much about keeping a house clean is the materials used in construction and decoration.

i loooooooove the idea of poofy fabric window treatments and a draped bed and tented ceilings. But because they would instantly attract thousands of pet hairs (I can visualize those hairs sticking out like a coating right now. Ick!) I stay with hard surfaces, bare windows, smooth walls, wood floor. This makes for a noisy house.

[frugal-one]

I have been following my DH's lead. I notice when something needs to be done .... he just does it. No waiting around or procrastinating. It is then out of the way.

[thunderseed]

I think that washing dishes by hand, if you have enough of them, CAN be a zen exercise. I think the warm water exacerbates the experience.

but I think that most household chores don't provide a zen experience for this simple reason: they aren't long enough to get into a Zone of repetitive motion.

this may be why I much prefer gardening to housework. Baby, I have A LOT of weeding to do, easily two hours a day of that. And then if I am sick and tired of weeding I can haul mulch and spread it, that's one of my favorite tasks. More zen work. And then after its all done I can sit back and view my nice, neat, tidy gardens.

While I do take satisfaction in a clean house, I do not enjoy the short bursts of work I have to do to maintain it. I do like sweeping our first floor, but that's barely a ten minute job. Sweeping is very zen. There are not many household jobs that take more than ten minutes, and for that we can thank modern technology. But what have we lost in exchange?

A previous poster mentioned a group of chores that clean up the kitchen, and how it's important to practice them so that they become automatic. That's a great way to view kitchen cleanup, and I can see that I do not have my end-of-day chores routinized like this. I DO have my a.m. pet chores grouped so I can understand the general principle, it's a good one.

Yes that is exactly it, I absolutely love gardening, there is a lot of it, and it's very relaxing and energizing at the same time and I also like the work out I get, and I also don't mind house cleaning when there is a lot of it, it's just the short tasks here and there that seem very pointless to me. That's probably why I see a couple things on the floor and say, well it's not a gigantic pile yet so there's really no point in cleaning it up yet ha.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Oh yeah I'm sure you can definitely make your house look minimal and zen with proper organization even if you own bajillions of objects. You would just have to be really good at being organized and hiding things and keeping them in storage. I don't think I could do that, I can't even do it while owning minimal things.

well I had this problem with pieces of paper, I could never decide whether to throw away or keep some of them, they'd just lie around all over and I'd push myself to decide again. I finally got a box for those pieces of paper I was hopelessly indecisive about. Yea, I know why be so silly about those pieces of paper in the first place, but I wasn't winning the battle to entirely let them go so. Much much more organized in a box. I bought a box for safety pins of which I had bought that seemed to be wandering everywhere. Yea and the shelves from the goodwill.

[thunderseed]

well I had this problem with pieces of paper, I could never decide whether to throw away or keep some of them, they'd just lie around all over and I'd push myself to decide again. I finally got a box for those pieces of paper I was hopelessly indecisive about. Yea, I know why be so silly about those pieces of paper in the first place, but I wasn't winning the battle to entirely let them go so. Much much more organized in a box. I bought a box for safety pins of which I had bought that seemed to be wandering everywhere. Yea and the shelves from the goodwill.

LoL I did the same thing with papers. I finally organized them and threw out a bunch but I still have a bunch of important papers I have to keep so I just found them a drawer somewhere along with instruction manuals to household appliances lol.

[SteveinMN]

I have made the decision and choice to not support money because I believe money is the root of all evil.
And yet you're accepting hundreds of dollars every month from your parents. If you believe money is the root of all evil (btw the original passage says "love of money is the root of all evil"), why not attract the life you say you believe in and tell your parents you don't need the money anymore? Start next month.


I believe that as long as I follow my heart I will be provided for by the universe, or God or whatever you call it. And surprisingly that has been the case. I have a whole house to myself, there are times I really cannot believe how blessed I have been. So I do have enough trust to keep following this plan of following my heart, despite how unlogical it is.

There's an old story about a flood and one guy who ended up on the roof of his house, waiting for God to provide for him. A neighbor came by with a boat and the guy just said, "Nope, God will take care of me." Hours later, a rescue team came by with a bigger boat and the guy said, "That's OK; God will take care of me." More hours later, the guy sees a helicopter hovering overhead. Someone on the helicopter said, "We're dropping you a rope!" The guy said, "Hey, I'm fine. God will rescue me." The next day, the guy is wet and cold and shivering and he looks up and says, "God, why haven't you helped me?" And God answers, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter. What do you want?"

I believe very strongly in the Law of Attraction. I've seen it work too many times to discount. But it's not the only Law in the universe. And it does not proscribe exactly how you get from wish to achievement. That path can be very twisty.


I did not come here to work, doing things I hate doing. I came here to help people, for free.

Anyway, as you can see, it's not my decision to decide to change anything in my life. Everytime I try to, bad things happen to stop me. I am meant to be where I am now, and meant to be doing the things I long to do.
As I understand the Law of Attraction, changing anything in your life is a matter of believing it to be so. Rather than say, "I want to be neat and orderly," you say "I am neat and orderly and [cleaning dishes, throwing away waste] is what neat and orderly people do." Change your mind; change your life. And some of those other laws of the universe have us doing lots of things that maybe we don't truly love. I'm no great fan of doing laundry, but when I was out of clean clothes, I did it. I can think of lots of things I'd rather do than brush my teeth every day -- but go without doing it because I don't love to do it? Out of the question. Unless I want to pay that price down the road.


It's not puzzling once you realize I said Non profit... that means charity. You can start non profits up with no cost because they are all government funded. It's all volunteer work. Anyway, it doesn't really matter how it comes into play, because when it comes to the law of attraction, all you are supposed to do is envision what you want and believe it is coming to you. The opportunities will come, and then you can do all the work to get there, you just have to make sure to see when the opportunities are presenting themselves to you.
thunderseed, I don't know where you live (though I can make an educated guess), but there's an entire universe of non-profits that do not rely on any government for their existence. I sit on the board of one such non-profit. It's a neighborhood newspaper and it pays its own way through advertising and through targeted private grants (not many of those, either). The city we live in provides not a cent and likely never will, no matter how great we think the paper is.

I'm puzzled by how you use some words. You say you're willing to "do all the work to get" your non-profit running. Maybe you're using the English-language collective "you". But the experience of most people in new ventures is that there undoubtedly will be tasks which need doing which you won't like. Ignoring things like keeping books because you don't care for the task is not an option. Especially if you don't want to do things in exchange for money or material goods.


I want to attract a future of owning a non profit charity, thus I need to live like that in the present. Which means, I am not allowed to make a profit for anything that I do, and everything that I do will serve a greater purpose - my purpose.
I gotta say, I'm just fascinated by this worldview.... I don't mean to poke. I sincerely wish you every success in making it happen. I just don't yet understand how it can.

[thunderseed]

And yet you're accepting hundreds of dollars every month from your parents. If you believe money is the root of all evil (btw the original passage says "love of money is the root of all evil"), why not attract the life you say you believe in and tell your parents you don't need the money anymore? Start next month.



There's an old story about a flood and one guy who ended up on the roof of his house, waiting for God to provide for him. A neighbor came by with a boat and the guy just said, "Nope, God will take care of me." Hours later, a rescue team came by with a bigger boat and the guy said, "That's OK; God will take care of me." More hours later, the guy sees a helicopter hovering overhead. Someone on the helicopter said, "We're dropping you a rope!" The guy said, "Hey, I'm fine. God will rescue me." The next day, the guy is wet and cold and shivering and he looks up and says, "God, why haven't you helped me?" And God answers, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter. What do you want?"

I believe very strongly in the Law of Attraction. I've seen it work too many times to discount. But it's not the only Law in the universe. And it does not proscribe exactly how you get from wish to achievement. That path can be very twisty.


As I understand the Law of Attraction, changing anything in your life is a matter of believing it to be so. Rather than say, "I want to be neat and orderly," you say "I am neat and orderly and [cleaning dishes, throwing away waste] is what neat and orderly people do." Change your mind; change your life. And some of those other laws of the universe have us doing lots of things that maybe we don't truly love. I'm no great fan of doing laundry, but when I was out of clean clothes, I did it. I can think of lots of things I'd rather do than brush my teeth every day -- but go without doing it because I don't love to do it? Out of the question. Unless I want to pay that price down the road.


thunderseed, I don't know where you live (though I can make an educated guess), but there's an entire universe of non-profits that do not rely on any government for their existence. I sit on the board of one such non-profit. It's a neighborhood newspaper and it pays its own way through advertising and through targeted private grants (not many of those, either). The city we live in provides not a cent and likely never will, no matter how great we think the paper is.

I'm puzzled by how you use some words. You say you're willing to "do all the work to get" your non-profit running. Maybe you're using the English-language collective "you". But the experience of most people in new ventures is that there undoubtedly will be tasks which need doing which you won't like. Ignoring things like keeping books because you don't care for the task is not an option. Especially if you don't want to do things in exchange for money or material goods.


I gotta say, I'm just fascinated by this worldview.... I don't mean to poke. I sincerely wish you every success in making it happen. I just don't yet understand how it can.

As far as the not accepting money from them every month, that's exactly why I originally wanted to stop accepting money from them and live off of the disability income which is only 300 a month after I pay rent. But the thing is, once I go that route, I would also have to stop claiming my disability income and stop paying rent, which means I would be homeless.
I think you only mentioned it because you are trying to prove a point and change my mind but it's actually what I was contemplating when we first started talking here. If I really want to shun the system, then I can't be a part of it at all.

However, you helped it occur to me that it's not so all or nothing after all. I'm not trying to shun the system, I just got carried away in my thinking.
I don't believe money is all evil, what I do believe is that it is evil to take money for helping people, that's why I went on that whole rant about humanitarianism.

If I was to stop taking the money from my parent's or disabliity it would literally be like slapping God in the face. By the way, I use the word God just so people understand what I'm talking about, I'm spiritual, not religious and I usually call my higher power Wankan Tankan, although the 10 commandments really do speak to me.

I just told you that I believe that if I follow my heart I will be provided for and that is exactly what is happening, so why would I want to prevent it from happening? I have been blessed with an amazing life and I didn't have to do anything that I hate, but I sure as hell worked for it even if I didn't get paid for the work I've done and feel like I do deserve it.

That story about God and and the man and the boat is exactly what I'm talking about here. I don't have a paying job, yet God is providing for me in these other ways so that I can be of service and follow my purpose.

Yeah, I know there is a lot more laws in the universe and it seems my path is very twisty right now lol. Honestly, it seems like I'm in a war against the law of attraction and divine intervention/destiny if that makes any sense. I know what I want but maybe I have to accept it's not meant for me or maybe I realy don't have it all figured out like I seem to think. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened to me. I get these grand ideas of what the perfect career or purpose would be for me, it's never turned out before so maybe I should just give up and settle with something I hate doing.
But unfortunately, I would much rather shoot myself in the face rather than get a job doing something I hate doing.

Most non profit organizations here are government funded and recieve donations from communities.


Also, I'm not sure you understand my definition of not doing things I don't like. I hate cleaning up after myself in the moment, but I am still trying to do it. I hate a lot of things that I still do. What I'm talking about is my LIFE PURPOSE. I'm not talking about doing random tasks here.
I don't care what I have to do in order to get to where I want to go, but I do it because it gives me purpose and makes me feel good about my life.
I don't always enjoy all the bajillions of hours of volunteer work I do, but I still do it because it makes me feel like I'm doing something good! I do not want to spend my life doing things that have no purpose to me. For example, I love landscaping and I had a landscaping business for awhile, but it never gave me any purpose to my life and therefore I hated it in that sense. I once worked at a native art store because I love art and native culture and thought I could be around purposeful and meaningful things but that was not the case either.
I have taken a whole bunch of fitness courses, and I thought becoming a personal trainer would give me more purpose to my life too, but it wasn't right either. Over the years I have figured out that what I want to do is simply volunteer and help people. I love being a spiritual life coach, but I'd never do that for money and I love volunteering, but that's just it, you aren't supposed to volunteeer for money lol.

My dream goal has always been to start a wilderness camp for troubled youth. It's because the only time in my life where I EVER felt like my life had any purpose of any kind is when I was working at Wachaiy Friendship Center. I live in canada by the way, and these frienship centeres are all over BC, they are all government funded and they have a whole bunch of different programs involved to help native people. Well when I was younger I joined the youth program, and as I got older I joined the board of directors and got really involved in leadership. While I was there the youth looked up to me and followed my lead, I got them to stop drinking, I got them to stop doing drugs and I even got them to stop smoking. When I first came none of them cared about their culture or their spirituality, but during my years there I organized and faciliattd a whole bunch of fun workshops and groups and outings for them and got them all interested in learning about their culture and the spiritual side of things and to respect their elders and what not. It was the most amazing time of my life, until the program started suffering government cut backs and people quit and new people came in and kicked out all the youth and brought in new ones. It was aweful, but anyway. It was the only time that I ever found something that truly fit what I want to be doing.

[thunderseed]

Continued... ( I wrote a lot, sorry)

So my dream for all these years has been to one day start a wilderness camp for troubled youth, not just for native kids but all kids, and it will be spiritual, and it will have all kinds of workshops, adventure tourism and wilderness survival skill workshops to basically teach them to live healthy... From there I thought why settle, why not make an actual resort? I don't know about that, I still like the wilderness camp idea. I even have a cousin who does the same thing so I could always just go help him out but he does it for money, which is different. If I can find the people and network, I could make it happen. Or perhaps it already does exist and all I have to do is get involved and move up the chain. I have volunteered at other youth camps before but the camps always have 1 theme, I want my camp to have many themes.
Of course there are always things you don't want to do along the way, but that is a small price to pay for actually finding something you are passionate about, somewhere you truly belong... I guess if you have never experienced it, it's hard to explain. The first time I found Wachiay I actually cried because it was the first time in my life I ever felt like I truly belonged anywhere. It was like I had found my true place. I have been lost ever since losing that and have been trying to find sometihng better or something similar, and to me, the wilderness camp idea seems like a really great career goal. Not a career but if I were to open a wilderness camp all year round, I would literally have to live there all the time so I wouldn't have to make money, I'd be living at the camp. Other camps do it, there always has to be a caretaker on site anyway.

I don't know if that's what is truly meant to happen for me and I don't know how I'm supposed to get there but it seems like things have worked out so far for me.
I'm not sure how you don't understand how it can happen. Step one is networking, networking, networking. You can't actually create a non-profit business until you have a board of directors for your organization. Once you get the board of directors then you go around town and join with local charities and religious organizations to help the start up process. Only after you have a whole community of people backing you up and a firm team can you actually present your idea and if the idea is accepted you can become a non-profit society. Something like this would literally be a society because I'm not just talking about creating something small, I'm talking about creating a whole community of people that all have things to offer, just like Wachaiy.
Over the years of volunteering I do know a lot of volunteers, and I've been talking about this goal for years and I have a lot of people interested in joining if it ever happens. I still need to get more volunteer experience though, at least I feel that way. I need to meet and network with more people who are good at organization. A non profit on this scale is not something I'd be doing or owning myself. I just have the idea, but I would be collaborating with a lot of other people and my board members would all be owners. Over the years I've thought of a lot of plans and logistics but of course it all changes over time. Who knows, I may end up finding something even better but I really don't see any opportunities that make me happier than that idea.

[iris lilies]

well I had this problem with pieces of paper, I could never decide whether to throw away or keep some of them, they'd just lie around all over and I'd push myself to decide again. I finally got a box for those pieces of paper I was hopelessly indecisive about. Yea, I know why be so silly about those pieces of paper in the first place, but I wasn't winning the battle to entirely let them go so. Much much more organized in a box. I bought a box for safety pins of which I had bought that seemed to be wandering everywhere. Yea and the shelves from the goodwill.

hey, I think it's fine to keep some papers just piled in a box. That's filing them by date, especially if you make a new box each year.

I had a cubby hole for some papers at work. They were of the "I don't think I will need them, but I'll keep them around for a while" variety. They were time sensitive. I cleaned out the pile about 3 -4 times a year. And pitched them. I found only about 5% of them to be of use. During the time I kept them. There were a fair number of papers I filed permanently, but these were not them.

[Ultralight]

True confession: I have not read all the replies in this thread.

But... I think I have something small to add that you might find valuable. One of the reasons I became a minimalist and took up simple living as a lifestyle was that I dislike cleaning and I am also not very good at it (we did not clean in my parents' home growing up...).

Minimalism means that I have very few things to clean or maintain or rearrange or organize or whatever. And it is nice! I can do a full-on cleaning of my room, my space in the garage, vacuum the house, and clean by bathroom and my car in like, I dunno, 20 minutes. I only need to do this once every week or two. So it is easy!

While minimalism might not be a lifestyle you'd be interested in, perhaps this could give you some food for thought for specific areas of your life.

I gave a presentation on minimalism for a community group I am part of. For weeks afterward people contacted me and told me this:

"I can't really be a minimalist like you, but I did apply minimalist principles to my closet and it has really helped!"

Others cited their kitchen or garage or what-have-you as the one trouble space the simply minimized. They were happy to have much less cleaning to do! :)

[Float On]

One sad downer to your dream of starting a camp. The cost for insurance for such a camp has gone through the roof over the last 15 years. I use to be in the camping industry. Worked for an adventure camp that worked with inner-city kids from the D.C. area taking them to the wilds of W.V. for 2 weeks at a time for backpacking, rappelling, challenge courses, etc. Worked for another organization that did 10 day backpacking trips to CO. Worked for a huge christian sports camp that had 5 camps with 1 week, 2 week, 4 week terms. Have also watched over the last 2 years several regional denominational camp/retreat facilities close down strictly due to insurance doubling each of the last few years. Breaks my heart because I love and really wanted to return to the camping industry.

[Gardnr]

I'm like SteveinMN and speak my mind. I'm not sure what you're after here at SLF.

You discuss pretty much having done all life has to offer but you don't know your backyard. you are 27. you are disabled but haven't shared how/why/your restrictions. You say "I have taken a whole bunch of fitness courses, and I thought becoming a personal trainer would give me more purpose to my life too, but it wasn't right either"????? so your disability is not physical. you get $ from that and housing from your very generous parents but you want none.

Your story just doesn't jive for me-not that I am a professional. I honestly think you are a lost male in his 20s who THINKS he's experienced the world. I think you're confused and conflicted like most of us were in our 20's. I too though I understood everything and knew everything at your age. Now that i'm 54 I have less understanding and more inquiry than ever.

And....at a big risk, I think you might be suicidal (you've written many sentences that point that direction). I encourage you to go see a professional to sort through your quandries that are posted.

[Teacher Terry]

I did have a child that as an adult that got a pretty serious physical disability & I did help him for awhile but not forever. God helps those that help themselves. In your country do you have housing for low income or disabled people? In the USA that is how someone too disabled to work lives on a small income because their rent is also low. If you stop taking help from your parent you do not have to stop taking your disability-one is not connected to the other. It sounds like you have a serious mental health issue & if that is the case you should seek psychiatric care. Some people find out that they are able to work p.t. Here if you only work p.t. & earn under a certain amount of $ each month they do not take away your benefits. Can you move to a smaller/cheaper place? If you are too disabled to work chances are that you will not be successful setting up a non-profit- that is a full-time or more job. My suggestion is that you try to get your needs met through government services & not your parents if you are indeed too mentally ill to work at this time.

[thunderseed]

True confession: I have not read all the replies in this thread.

But... I think I have something small to add that you might find valuable. One of the reasons I became a minimalist and took up simple living as a lifestyle was that I dislike cleaning and I am also not very good at it (we did not clean in my parents' home growing up...).

Minimalism means that I have very few things to clean or maintain or rearrange or organize or whatever. And it is nice! I can do a full-on cleaning of my room, my space in the garage, vacuum the house, and clean by bathroom and my car in like, I dunno, 20 minutes. I only need to do this once every week or two. So it is easy!

While minimalism might not be a lifestyle you'd be interested in, perhaps this could give you some food for thought for specific areas of your life.

I gave a presentation on minimalism for a community group I am part of. For weeks afterward people contacted me and told me this:

"I can't really be a minimalist like you, but I did apply minimalist principles to my closet and it has really helped!"

Others cited their kitchen or garage or what-have-you as the one trouble space the simply minimized. They were happy to have much less cleaning to do! :)

Thanks, I am probably not as minimal as you but I've downsized a lot so far. For example, I only use 1 bowl, 1 plate and 1 saucer. But I have a set of pots and pans because sometimes I like to cook multiple things at a time, and the pots and pans aren't a problem for me because they are very easy to clean and put away. My problem is more the packaging and papers I might bring into the house, the messes that result from the food I'm cooking and also laundry on the ground. I cut down on the amount of laundry I should have but I still seem to put off doing the laundry sometimes.

[thunderseed]

I'm like SteveinMN and speak my mind. I'm not sure what you're after here at SLF.

You discuss pretty much having done all life has to offer but you don't know your backyard. you are 27. you are disabled but haven't shared how/why/your restrictions. You say "I have taken a whole bunch of fitness courses, and I thought becoming a personal trainer would give me more purpose to my life too, but it wasn't right either"????? so your disability is not physical. you get $ from that and housing from your very generous parents but you want none.

Your story just doesn't jive for me-not that I am a professional. I honestly think you are a lost male in his 20s who THINKS he's experienced the world. I think you're confused and conflicted like most of us were in our 20's. I too though I understood everything and knew everything at your age. Now that i'm 54 I have less understanding and more inquiry than ever.

And....at a big risk, I think you might be suicidal (you've written many sentences that point that direction). I encourage you to go see a professional to sort through your quandries that are posted.

I made that clear in my introduction, I'm looking for ideas on how to be more minimal and organized.

Of course I know my back yard, what are you talking about?

I am not a man so I'm not sure I can take your opinions seriously, as you haven't read anything I've written accurately.

And I can assure you I'm not suicidal.

I'm sorry you have such a problem with my story and I'm also sorry to see how poorly you think about me.

Just because I'm younger than you doesn't mean I haven't experienced a lot in my life.

And I also speak my mind: You are not like SteveinMS at all, from what I've seen he speaks his mind, not in an offensive way, in a caring way. If you want my opinion, you could learn from that. Take the time to know the subject matter before you spout off your opinion. For example, it's not that hard to look at my posts and see that I've mentioned my gender many times.

[ApatheticNoMore]

For example, I only use 1 bowl, 1 plate and 1 saucer.

I have thought of doing that but it seemed not to happen. I wouldn't wash the bowl before using another!


My problem is more the packaging and papers I might bring into the house, the messes that result from the food I'm cooking and also laundry on the ground. I cut down on the amount of laundry I should have but I still seem to put off doing the laundry sometimes.

yea we have some of the same problems I think, the paper that accumulates from @#$# everything, being lazy about laundry on the ground, I have a basket, but maybe it's not ideal (isn't that big) or I need more baskets for laundry ...

Also recycling is forever accumulating in piles (now if I could just make myself go to the recycle place at least once a week .... in my dreams recycling would magically be collected with trash, in reality dream on)

[thunderseed]

I did have a child that as an adult that got a pretty serious physical disability & I did help him for awhile but not forever. God helps those that help themselves. In your country do you have housing for low income or disabled people? In the USA that is how someone too disabled to work lives on a small income because their rent is also low. If you stop taking help from your parent you do not have to stop taking your disability-one is not connected to the other. It sounds like you have a serious mental health issue & if that is the case you should seek psychiatric care. Some people find out that they are able to work p.t. Here if you only work p.t. & earn under a certain amount of $ each month they do not take away your benefits. Can you move to a smaller/cheaper place? If you are too disabled to work chances are that you will not be successful setting up a non-profit- that is a full-time or more job. My suggestion is that you try to get your needs met through government services & not your parents if you are indeed too mentally ill to work at this time.

I am renting a perfectly fine house from my parent's right now, thanks....

And I am not crazy, thank you very much....

[thunderseed]

I have thought of doing that but it seemed not to happen. I wouldn't wash the bowl before using another!



yea we have some of the same problems I think, the paper that accumulates from @#$# everything, being lazy about laundry on the ground, I have a basket, but maybe it's not ideal (isn't that big) or I need more baskets for laundry ...

Also recycling is forever accumulating in piles (now if I could just make myself go to the recycle place at least once a week .... in my dreams recycling would magically be collected with trash, in reality dream on)

It's working for me so far, I do have 3 other plates, bowls and saucers stored away (in case guests come over to eat) but I store them in a drawer that isn't as easy to get to. For me, as soon as anything is in a drawer I tend to forget it's there, so it forces me to just use 1 plate, 1 bowl and 1 saucer and that is actually going well. Even when I forget to do the dishes and pick up after myself, I still have to wash them in order to use them again, so a bunch of dishes don't ever accumalte in the sink (other than the pots and pans, but they are easy and funner to clean)

And yeah... yesterday I bought some mini recycling bins and put them in main cluttery rooms in my house. I used it in my kitchen on the counter as I was cooking, and put all the packaging in the bin as it added up, so it's working so far... I didn't empty it into the recycle bin outside yet though lol.

[bekkilyn]

.. in my dreams recycling would magically be collected with trash, in reality dream on)

It actually does happen in some places. In my neighborhood, they pick up trash once a week and recycling every two weeks and we have huge bins with wheels for bringing both out to the curb.

I keep a small wastebasket and a blue recycling bucket in the cabinets under my sink and when they get full, I bring them outside and unload them into the big bins for collection day. I generally don't have an issue with leaving trash or recycling lying around (I can't stand looking at it) so these two small containers under the sink work well for me, but if I did have issues, I'd definitely try having a trash and recycling container in every room, and then hope I'm good about keeping them emptied when they get full. When my sink containers get full, I'll put them in front of my front door so I remember to take them out the next time I leave the house for something.

thunderseed, on a different note, my main concern for you from reading all your posts is that you have an unhealthy relationship with money. Yes, it's true that it can be used for great evil by people who are financially gluttonous and seriously abuse it. In many ways, western society (and a growing amount of eastern society) is full of such abuses as a part of our cultures. However, you seem to be taking it to the opposite extreme to the point of possibly being phobic, which can also be very unhealthy, not to mention impractical. (I do believe I remember reading in a previous post where you mentioned having a tendency to take things to extremes.) Maybe exploring further your internal relationship with money could be helpful in attaining more balance, which can also help reduce general anxiety and stress. I feel that you have some very noble goals and hope you are able to find great success with them, and yet I can't help but feel some concerns.

[thunderseed]

I don't think any of you truly think my ideas, my passions and my lifestyle is nuts, I think you just have a hard time wrapping your minds around it, and it makes you all question your own lifestyles, your own life purpose and your own lack of ethics and morals when it comes to living your life, and for the most part you don't like having that familiarity upturned by someone who sees the world in an unorthodox way, because you're so dislocated from any sense of hope or faith. You'd be surprised how often I run into closed minded people who become afraid and defensive because of the way I choose to life my life, because I'm like a tornado that whirls in and shares my truths with people who are like, WTF, how could this be?

When anyone talks about spiritual truths, the only reason people ever run away and call it crazy is because it scares them and threatens them.

People are so used to living life like a sheep, following the rest of the herd, you couldn't possibly imagine how anyone could ever do anything other than that.
I know the way I live my life sounds radical and impossible to people who are completely lost and dislocated from any sense of faith and true calling.
But insanity comes when you are brainwashed by society, not when you are following your heart.

I don't have an unhealthy relationship with money, has it ever occured to you that YOU have an unhealthy relationship with money? YOU are the one who is controlled by it, not me. I love my life and enjoy doing what I do simply helping people, it fulfills me, I live perfectly fine not making money, and you all don't think that's possible, but I can assure you it is, it is very possible, and even when I was homeless, I was happy and fulfilled.

I am not the one you should be concerned of, if anything, I am concerned about people who spend their days doing things they hate doing, having messed up priorities thinking money is more important than anything else - THAT is unhealthy.
It is sad to hear how many people are not following their dreams and have just settled into doing things they are not passionate about. THAT is unhealthy. What I am doing, is not. This is how we are meant to live. We each have a purpose, so find it and acheive it.
You have this one life, so make it count. Don't spend it doing things you don't want to do, life is short.

You may call me phobic, but it's just because you can't wrap your mind around my spirituality. I can assure you that when I dedicate my life to what I beleive in, things go well. When I don't, things don't go well.
Either way, it's really none of your business anyway. But for the record, I am the one who is concerned about you, I really don't think it should be the other way around. My life is great. I have a better life, a better house and a better sense of peace and happiness than most people I know and I can also tell, more than most people in here even.

Like my ideas about ethics when it came to the internet, you were all like, Oh nooo. It's funny that it was practically the only thing people mentioned in my introduction, out of everything else I said about myself, but it's true, my ideas threaten people, simply because it holds a mirror up to themselves and they have to think about things that might not be so great in their lives afterall.

I spend every day trying to be a better person than I was before and I am very self aware of what I must do in order to acheive bliss. My main goal in life is to be simple, and happy and to live according to my heart knowing, my spirit guides and my higher power. I would have thought more people in this forum could understand that but I am used to people not understanding my way of life.
I don't mind sharing my truths with people, but the storms it creates gets sort of get old. You can call me eccentric, or weird, I don't care.

What you should take away from this is that I am happy living my life following my heart and honestly, I don't think a lot of you could say the same thing, if you were to be completely honest. Because you would be scared or think it was impossible to follow my way of life, completely dedicated to being of service to spirit.

[Ultralight]

I don't think any of you truly think my ideas, my passions and my lifestyle is nuts, I think you just have a hard time wrapping your minds around it, and it makes you all question your own lifestyles, your own life purpose and your own lack of ethics and morals when it comes to living your life, and for the most part you don't like having that familiarity upturned by someone who sees the world in an unorthodox way, because you're so dislocated from any sense of hope or faith. You'd be surprised how often I run into closed minded people who become afraid and defensive because of the way I choose to life my life, because I'm like a tornado that whirls in and shares my truths with people who are like, WTF, how could this be?

When anyone talks about spiritual truths, the only reason people ever run away and call it crazy is because it scares them and threatens them.

People are so used to living life like a sheep, following the rest of the herd, you couldn't possibly imagine how anyone could ever do anything other than that.
I know the way I live my life sounds radical and impossible to people who are completely lost and dislocated from any sense of faith and true calling.
But insanity comes when you are brainwashed by society, not when you are following your heart.

I don't have an unhealthy relationship with money, has it ever occured to you that YOU have an unhealthy relationship with money? YOU are the one who is controlled by it, not me. I love my life and enjoy doing what I do simply helping people, it fulfills me, I live perfectly fine not making money, and you all don't think that's possible, but I can assure you it is, it is very possible, and even when I was homeless, I was happy and fulfilled.

I am not the one you should be concerned of, if anything, I am concerned about people who spend their days doing things they hate doing, having messed up priorities thinking money is more important than anything else - THAT is unhealthy.
It is sad to hear how many people are not following their dreams and have just settled into doing things they are not passionate about. THAT is unhealthy. What I am doing, is not. This is how we are meant to live. We each have a purpose, so find it and acheive it.
You have this one life, so make it count. Don't spend it doing things you don't want to do, life is short.

You may call me phobic, but it's just because you can't wrap your mind around my spirituality. I can assure you that when I dedicate my life to what I beleive in, things go well. When I don't, things don't go well.
Either way, it's really none of your business anyway. But for the record, I am the one who is concerned about you, I really don't think it should be the other way around. My life is great. I have a better life, a better house and a better sense of peace and happiness than most people I know and I can also tell, more than most people in here even.

Like my ideas about ethics when it came to the internet, you were all like, Oh nooo. It's funny that it was practically the only thing people mentioned in my introduction, out of everything else I said about myself, but it's true, my ideas threaten people, simply because it holds a mirror up to themselves and they have to think about things that might not be so great in their lives afterall.

I spend every day trying to be a better person than I was before and I am very self aware of what I must do in order to acheive bliss. My main goal in life is to be simple, and happy and to live according to my heart knowing, my spirit guides and my higher power. I would have thought more people in this forum could understand that but I am used to people not understanding my way of life.
I don't mind sharing my truths with people, but the storms it creates gets sort of get old. You can call me eccentric, or weird, I don't care.

What you should take away from this is that I am happy living my life following my heart and honestly, I don't think a lot of you could say the same thing, if you were to be completely honest. Because you would be scared or think it was impossible to follow my way of life, completely dedicated to being of service to spirit.

Who are you addressing in this?

[thunderseed]

Who are you addressing in this?

The people who keep calling me crazy and/or trying to tell me my way of life is wrong, or concerning or whatever. It's starting to really get old. It's not what I came here for. I simply came here to learn more about how to be minimal and organized.
There are literally people in this thread that are calling me mentally ill based on my spiritual principles and because I want to be a humanitarian and not have a paying job.

[Ultralight]

The people who keep calling me crazy and/or trying to tell me my way of life is wrong, or concerning or whatever. It's starting to really get old. It's not what I came here for. I simply came here to learn more about how to be minimal and organized.
There are literally people in this thread that are calling me mentally ill based on my spiritual principles and because I want to be a humanitarian and not have a paying job.

Okay, all I am suggesting is that you mellow out.

I say this as a fellow person who lives an unconventional life (though I have a job... blah!). If you want my weirdo credentials I am more than happy to provide them! :)

There are people from many walks of life on here. Not everyone will "get" you. You won't "get" them. So it goes...

I got some flack when I first signed on about being an extreme minimalist and about my lifestyle experiments.

But for me, why would I care? I am confident in my path and the way I live. Others, rightly or wrongly, live their way. And for now, that diversity is a reality.

So why not just do your own thing, appreciate allies when you find them, and simply ignore those that you think negatively impact your life?

[sweetana3]

Well since you have called some insane, lost, lacking in ethics and morals, defensless, hopeless, unhappy, scared........................................

Good thing you are happy to be yourself because you might spend a lot of time alone.

[Kestra]

The people who keep calling me crazy and/or trying to tell me my way of life is wrong, or concerning or whatever. It's starting to really get old. It's not what I came here for. I simply came here to learn more about how to be minimal and organized.
There are literally people in this thread that are calling me mentally ill based on my spiritual principles and because I want to be a humanitarian and not have a paying job.

I don't think people are calling you mentally ill because of your lifestyle. It is because you, yourself, said that you are disabled, but are in good physical shape, so there's an assumption that your disability is probably of the mental variety. Of course we don't know that; there are many types of disabilities. Many of us here have some type of physical or mental disability, or at least have close family members who do.

We're just trying to be helpful and to better understand your situation, which, yes, honestly is considerably different than most of ours.

But it's not right of you to make blanket statements that we don't understand having a calling, or are just concerned about money. This is the SIMPLE LIVING forums. The majority of us are disconnected with the hyper-consumer aspects of society, and many of us are living out our calling and living according to our principles right now.

Maybe you feel attacked, but being defensive like that isn't going to help people understand you better.

[thunderseed]

Okay, all I am suggesting is that you mellow out.

I say this as a fellow person who lives an unconventional life (though I have a job... blah!). If you want my weirdo credentials I am more than happy to provide them! :)

There are people from many walks of life on here. Not everyone will "get" you. You won't "get" them. So it goes...

I got some flack when I first signed on about being an extreme minimalist and about my lifestyle experiments.

But for me, why would I care? I am confident in my path and the way I live. Others, rightly or wrongly, live their way. And for now, that diversity is a reality.

So why not just do your own thing, appreciate allies when you find them, and simply ignore those that you think negatively impact your life?

I care too much sometimes and am not really good at ignoring people, but I would like to make my time here more productive anyway so from now on I'll just focus on what I came here for.
I don't understand why they would give you flack for it since that's what the forum is about, or maybe I'm wrong, I guess simple living could mean many different things to different people. I am not always as confident but I do have trust at least that I'm going the right direction, and I don't really know many other likeminded people.
Thanks for the reality check anyway.

[SteveinMN]

I see others have responded while I've been typing.

I think this forum, more than many others, would be respectful of a lifestyle of simplicity and a freedom from having to make that very next paycheck. Indeed, simple living means different things to different people. I don't recall anyone calling you "mentally ill" for your beliefs in a higher being or even the (unhealthy) relationship you do have with money. (The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.)

What I see here is a lot that just doesn’t add up -- someone who says she's disabled enough to qualify for "disability welfare" yet plans to do all kinds of things which will take a fair amount of physical and mental energy; someone who says she hates money, but certainly seems content with what other people's money buys for her; someone who has an admirable goal of creating a completely-volunteer wilderness camp but seems strangely closed to the idea that building and staffing it could take real money, even as a contingency plan in case Attraction does not manifest itself the way you hope it will.

I'm sorry if you're feeling "picked upon". I hope you can find the kind of information you're looking for; I think folks here have been pretty good about responding with ideas and suggestions about organization. I would suggest that you consider just how much more you disclose of yourself beyond your immediate questions ("how do I get better organized?") because when you bring all that into the open, you make it fair for people to comment on it (as long as they're not abusive about it).

Good luck!

[Songbird]

I don't think any of you truly think my ideas, my passions and my lifestyle is nuts, I think you just have a hard time wrapping your minds around it, and it makes you all question your own lifestyles, your own life purpose and your own lack of ethics and morals when it comes to living your life, and for the most part you don't like having that familiarity upturned by someone who sees the world in an unorthodox way, because you're so dislocated from any sense of hope or faith. You'd be surprised how often I run into closed minded people who become afraid and defensive because of the way I choose to life my life, because I'm like a tornado that whirls in and shares my truths with people who are like, WTF, how could this be?

When anyone talks about spiritual truths, the only reason people ever run away and call it crazy is because it scares them and threatens them.

People are so used to living life like a sheep, following the rest of the herd, you couldn't possibly imagine how anyone could ever do anything other than that.
I know the way I live my life sounds radical and impossible to people who are completely lost and dislocated from any sense of faith and true calling.
But insanity comes when you are brainwashed by society, not when you are following your heart.

I don't have an unhealthy relationship with money, has it ever occured to you that YOU have an unhealthy relationship with money? YOU are the one who is controlled by it, not me. I love my life and enjoy doing what I do simply helping people, it fulfills me, I live perfectly fine not making money, and you all don't think that's possible, but I can assure you it is, it is very possible, and even when I was homeless, I was happy and fulfilled.

I am not the one you should be concerned of, if anything, I am concerned about people who spend their days doing things they hate doing, having messed up priorities thinking money is more important than anything else - THAT is unhealthy.
It is sad to hear how many people are not following their dreams and have just settled into doing things they are not passionate about. THAT is unhealthy. What I am doing, is not. This is how we are meant to live. We each have a purpose, so find it and acheive it.
You have this one life, so make it count. Don't spend it doing things you don't want to do, life is short.

You may call me phobic, but it's just because you can't wrap your mind around my spirituality. I can assure you that when I dedicate my life to what I beleive in, things go well. When I don't, things don't go well.
Either way, it's really none of your business anyway. But for the record, I am the one who is concerned about you, I really don't think it should be the other way around. My life is great. I have a better life, a better house and a better sense of peace and happiness than most people I know and I can also tell, more than most people in here even.

Like my ideas about ethics when it came to the internet, you were all like, Oh nooo. It's funny that it was practically the only thing people mentioned in my introduction, out of everything else I said about myself, but it's true, my ideas threaten people, simply because it holds a mirror up to themselves and they have to think about things that might not be so great in their lives afterall.

I spend every day trying to be a better person than I was before and I am very self aware of what I must do in order to acheive bliss. My main goal in life is to be simple, and happy and to live according to my heart knowing, my spirit guides and my higher power. I would have thought more people in this forum could understand that but I am used to people not understanding my way of life.
I don't mind sharing my truths with people, but the storms it creates gets sort of get old. You can call me eccentric, or weird, I don't care.

What you should take away from this is that I am happy living my life following my heart and honestly, I don't think a lot of you could say the same thing, if you were to be completely honest. Because you would be scared or think it was impossible to follow my way of life, completely dedicated to being of service to spirit.

The truth of the matter, what your lifestyle really boils down to is the use of your government and your parents funding your way of life. No matter how you dress it up with flowery words, and insults to others - you are simply a user. Few, if any, would respect that.... I am sorry if you are disabled, but from reading your posts it doesn't sound to be physical and you say your mental health is ok, so what is your disability?

[bekkilyn]

thunderseed, I am sorry if I caused you harm or undue suffering from my words, regardless of whether or not they were justified. My view is that it is beneficial to explore different options and ways of thinking, and especially if I am convinced I am right about something or have it all figured out. (Not that I am always successful at it, mind you.)

[thunderseed]

thunderseed, I am sorry if I caused you harm or undue suffering from my words, regardless of whether or not they were justified. My view is that it is beneficial to explore different options and ways of thinking, and especially if I am convinced I am right about something or have it all figured out. (Not that I am always successful at it, mind you.)

Thanks for the apology :)

[Songbird]

Thunderseed, I do not mean my words to you in my above post to be harsh. I am a person that is very direct and more so since having a stroke. I am disabled myself and can no longer walk. I believe if you can work, you should, and stop taking your parents' money. They will need that money someday, whether you think so or not. It is not spiritual of you to take from them. Not sure why you think that it is ok. You have said in another post that your parents are not happy about giving you their money...

[thunderseed]

I'm not sure what the point of this. You have successfully made me feel terrible for having to rely on my parent's right now, so good for you I guess. You have successfully hurt me, insulted me and ruined any positivity I might have had for my future so, sure. I'll take your points into consideration. You have a problem with me being disabled, or mentally ill or whatever else you think I am. Why am I even on this forum?
I shouldn't be spiritual, I shouldn't follow my dreams and I shouldn't take support from my parents right now, and everythign I've been looking forward to is all useless according to you.
I was feeling hopeful about striving for my dreams but i guess you have all proven to me it's just a bunch of bullshit.
Yeah, maybe I Should just get a ****ing job and abandon all my hopes and dreams and be miserable.

[Ultralight]

Thunderseed:

Are you familiar with Daniel Suelo and Mark Boyle. These are two folks who live without money at all. Perhaps their lifestyles could inform your own.

[thunderseed]

Thunderseed:

Are you familiar with Daniel Suelo and Mark Boyle. These are two folks who live without money at all. Perhaps their lifestyles could inform your own.

Thank you I will look them up.

[herbgeek]

What I see here is a lot that just doesn’t add up


ou have successfully made me feel terrible for having to rely on my parent's right now, so good for you I guess. You have successfully hurt me, insulted me and ruined any positivity I might have had for my future so, sure. I'll take your points into consideration. You have a problem with me being disabled, or mentally ill or whatever else you think I am. Why am I even on this forum?
I shouldn't be spiritual, I shouldn't follow my dreams and I shouldn't take support from my parents right now, and everythign I've been looking forward to is all useless according to you.
I was feeling hopeful about striving for my dreams but i guess you have all proven to me it's just a bunch of bullshit.
Yeah, maybe I Should just get a ****ing job and abandon all my hopes and dreams and be miserable.

Packy! You made it back!!!

[Alan]

Packy! You made it back!!!Not Packy. He would never send me an impassioned plea to delete his account, especially just 3 days into participation.

[Ultralight]

Not Packy. He would never send me an impassioned plea to delete his account, especially just 3 days into participation.

Wow...

[thunderseed]

Not Packy. He would never send me an impassioned plea to delete his account, especially just 3 days into participation.

All I asked the adminstrator was to delete my account because there are no settings to do it myself like there are in most forums. At least I can't find it.

I guess since you made it public you want to know why I am leaving but you could have just asked me in private. I don't much care for being insulted and have better things to do with my time, it's not a good fit for me, and it also shouldn't be surprising to anyone considering everyone here knows how much I hate the internet and forums in the first place. Sorry for the inconvenience but I need my account deleted please, I like to erase my internet footprint as much as possible.

That being said, if you refuse to delete my account, I will force you to.

[Alan]

That being said, if you refuse to delete my account, I will force you to.
I replied to your earlier message advising you that if I deleted your account it was non-retrievable and asked you to confirm that was your wish. I'll take this as confirmation and delete the account, in spite of my curiosity.

Good Luck!

[thunderseed]

I replied to your earlier message advising you that if I deleted your account it was non-retrievable and asked you to confirm that was your wish. I'll take this as confirmation.

I didn't recieve anything and yes it is confirmation, thanks!

[Gardnr]

well gee, that was a whole lot of "I am" without accountability.

Wow......so sorry I was working at something I love and not around here to keep up with all ya'll.

[Ultralight]

And with that The Thunderseed Era comes to a bizarre close...

[Songbird]

And with that The Thunderseed Era comes to a bizarre close...

It definitely was bizarre!

[Float On]

I didn't even know what to say- such contradictions and I guess forums are not the place for questions, discussions, conversations, and a variety of views? Actually I hoped she'd catch on but by page 6 that wasn't going to happen.

[Ultralight]

I tried to suggest to Thunderseed that she just mellow out a bit. I mean, in life, sometimes we offend people and sometimes they offend us.

One can apologize to people, one can dust oneself off and go about one's business, one can ignore people, one can laugh it off. But apparently she could not do these things...

Some on here suggested she may have had a mental illness, which was a justifiable assessment. It does not take a PhD in psychology to pick up that someone might be mentally ill, just like it does not take an MD to tell if someone is physically ill. Now... I couldn't tell you what mental illness she had or how she needed to be treated for it.

But I think it is fair to say poor Thunderseed had some kind of mental health issue.

[Float On]

Which makes me wish she had stayed and listened and learned. She could of had a lot of growth here but wasn't interested in the big picture.

[Teacher Terry]

NObody on here was insulting her. I have spent the last 25 years helping people with disabilities get back to work. For some people this will never happen for a variety of reasons. I was trying to point her towards resources so she at the very least could stop taking $ from her parents. The whole thing was bizarre.

[Kestra]

NObody on here was insulting her. I have spent the last 25 years helping people with disabilities get back to work. For some people this will never happen for a variety of reasons. I was trying to point her towards resources so she at the very least could stop taking $ from her parents. The whole thing was bizarre.

Yep. And I'm quite knowledgeable about starting non-profits and other businesses in Canada. I could have helped.

[herbgeek]

My troll button went off very early- when you get someone who joins and tells you all kinds of personal details, with many many posting in a short amount of time, (>75 in 3 days), and then starts demanding (eg I came here for this specific purpose and you people aren't giving me what I want) or getting argumentative right away, it usually doesn't end well.

[Float On]

with many many posting in a short amount of time, (>75 in 3 days),

I noticed that too. Took me 3 years to get that many posts!

[Ultralight]

Hey! I posted a lot! ;)

[Float On]

Hey! I posted a lot! ;)

Yes...but you were asking questions and having conversations. :idea:

[iris lilies]

Yes...but you were asking questions and having conversations. :idea:

I am excited to think that Ultralight will surpass my number of posts in short order! I do not like being the record holder.

Yes, I could do something about that but it would mean--not posting. ugh, can't do that. haha.

[Ultralight]

I am excited to think that Ultralight will surpass my number of posts in short order! I do not like being the record holder.

Yes, I could do something about that but it would mean--not posting. ugh, can't do that. haha.

Me likey!

[SteveinMN]

My troll button went off very early
I was picking up something early; wasn't sure what.

Between the changing story, the ill logic, the rambling posts, and, finally, the accusation of everyone who thought differently from her as unethical and immoral, thunderseed may have been a troll. Either way, I hope she gets the help she needs before she's homeless and alone. I don't see her lifestyle as a blueprint for success.

[iris lilies]

I was picking up something early; wasn't sure what.

Between the changing story, the ill logic, the rambling posts, and, finally, the accusation of everyone who thought differently from her as unethical and immoral, thunderseed may have been a troll. Either way, I hope she gets the help she needs before she's homeless and alone. I don't see her lifestyle as a blueprint for success.

No, she's no troll. Fortunately Canada is funding that lifestyle, my tax dollars aren't involved.

[herbgeek]

Hey! I posted a lot!

Yeah I was suspicious of you too at the beginning. Glad I was wrong. :D

[bekkilyn]

I didn't get the impression that thunderseed was a troll or she would still be here yanking everyone's chains until she got banned from the forum. A troll isn't going to feel offended by negative reactions. A troll would feed on them for as long as possible.

My impression was that she is young and has all the answers. She also appeared to be extremely unhappy and anxious about her life, probably because she's always been financially dependent and has never been able to gain a certain level of self-confidence that more financial independence would bring. I really wish she would have allowed people to help her. Her reaction might have something to do with her disability though.

[Ultralight]

Yeah I was suspicious of you too at the beginning. Glad I was wrong. :D

Hahahaha!

[kib]

Thunderseed was a good name though, all it took was the milk of human honesty to grow her into a tornado!

I understand the frustration of wanting to evolve beyond money. The materialism of our society, the basic patient backbeat of "there is no other way, money money money, if it's profitable it's excusable, nay, it's desirable" makes me absolutely nuts at times. But we really don't have an alternative for those who wish a life of total altruism - monastery, perhaps?

To put a finger on what I found offensive about Thunderseed, she didn't want to do very mundane non-monetary chores, either. Putting garbage in the bin, distasteful. Washing a dish, unpleasing. Something like of a law of physics, there's a certain amount of effort required in being a functional adult human being. If you're not earning a paycheck, there's a lot more manual labor involved. Saying you prefer not to earn money OR lift a finger to address your own mess is not a position I respect.

ETA: Alan, thank you for setting up the boards so people's posts don't disappear just because they leave in a huff. Nothing more irritating than a 'discussion' decimated and left meaningless after much effort on the part of all participants.

[lessisbest]

It's sad that someone is so frustrated with "life" at such a young age. Meanwhile, I have a 43-year old nephew who has been a quadriplegic since he was 15-years old (high school sports-related accident). He completed his college studies, works full time at a very taxing job that includes traveling all over the U.S., got married, and they adopted twin girls. He is an inspiration to everyone he meets!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Meh don't gossip (good or bad) about someone not here to defend themselves, take the high road.... resist, earn that halo.

[kib]

Heard. I just felt I needed to find the root of why her posts were so bothersome to me. I have some issues about people who feel entitled to what is not theirs and then just don't seem able to understand the drawing of a line.

[bekkilyn]

Well hopefully she'll come to understand more in time. She's young yet and seems to be good-hearted in her way.

[rosarugosa]

I would agree there were clearly some mental health issues there. She was also argumentative & defensive, so it didn't seem like discussions with her were going to be very satisfying on either end. Not a good fit for the Forums.

[KayLR]

I have to admit, I feel like you most times about the after dinner cleanup, but then I remember to think about how nice it is to get up in the morning to a nice, clean kitchen. Sometimes it's just that "imagining" that helps.

[kib]

I agree, Kay. It might be a bit OCD, but I also find that once the house is clean, it's so pleasant that way that I'm inspired to deal with little messes before they turn into big ones by tapping into the memory of "perfection" before it's out of reach again.

[frugalone]

I have this habit of keeping a notebook at arm's length where I sit at the kitchen table. I also do small art projects there (but store the stuff elsewhere). Trouble is, I will make a to-do list in the notebook, then think of something else, write it on a post-it note, and I end up with post-it notes and scraps of paper all over that area. I don't think a bigger notebook will help as I do have to eat, write, etc. in that space. Eeek

[kib]

frugalone, I know what you mean. As with many other things, I've found that only having One available actually helps. In other words, I don't keep postits or scrap paper around and I keep my pen tucked into the notebook, so it's hunt down my notebook or write on my hand with a lipstick. I've got a notebook small enough to keep in my purse, so it's my constant companion at this point.

[catherine]

We don't see our grandson as much as we would like, and my DDIL often texts us and asks if she can come over with him. Some weeks we have legit reasons for turning her away--i.e., I'm out of town traveling. But today, she asked if she could drop by at 12:30. Well, I've been crazy busy, and DH isn't good at using his spare time to make the place presentable, so, given my DDIL is a clean freak, we turned her down, making up an excuse about work that we really don't have to do.

That is a CRIME!! Turning away family because you don't want them to see your messy house?? DH and I read each other the riot act after we told her know, vowing to make changes in our lax lifestyle. We need to figure out a system that works. I can't think of one time my MIL would have turned us away because of a messy house--mainly because a) she was also a clean freak and b) she knew we weren't.

This is not acceptable to me, and I'm hoping you CAN teach old dogs new tricks, because I need to learn one or two!]

So thanks for this timely thread.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Hmm I thought you were going to say "we should have had her over even though the house was messy, this is so wrong just to decline because of that, let her see the messy house ...". Though I suppose the grandson situation complicates things.

[kib]

I find that other people, no matter how much I love them, create chaos and confusion. When my house already feels chaotic and confusing to me, the demand of people who need my attention makes me addle-brained and uncomfortable. Fussing around to find a seat for someone and winding up with a pile of formerly sorted notes shoved into a pile on the floor destroys progress I've made. When that person then starts talking about how 'we' need to do this and that and so on, we need to see this movie and we should take tai chi and this is their problem of the week and and and, all I can think toward my nearest and dearest is 'oh my god, Go Away! I'm just not ready for more, I'm ready for less!"

It's a bad feeling to turn people away because of this, but I've done it if there seems to be no imminent crisis on their part. It's no so much, "oh, they'll see", it's more a threat of total overload.

Note: I can understand that some people function better and feel more comfortable when there is a lot of stuff around them, even if it's messy. They are in their comfort zone when it's like that, and welcome more input. I'm just not one of those. :(

[SteveinMN]

It's a bad feeling to turn people away because of this, but I've done it if there seems to be no imminent crisis on their part. It's no so much, "oh, they'll see", it's more a threat of total overload.
I kind of wondered about the original post related to this comment, but I can relate to this feeling very well. My sense of priorities does not make a spotless home #1 (or, even, most times, #2 :~) ). As in many things, I view my own "stuff" more harshly. I see my house as more disordered and chaotic than others might (I don't believe I have any visitors who are true "clean freaks"). So when it gets to a certain stage for me because priorities and our schedule have not allowed me to give cleaning enough attention, I'd just as soon have no visitors. Of course, if I know they really need me, then either we meet elsewhere or the rule is broken.

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, maybe a solution would be to confine the mess to rooms that have doors that can be closed. Then keep the rest of the house picked up. Even if not clean a picked up house will look like it is. A friend of mine that was really messy devised a system where her & hubby would set a timer for 15 minutes everyday & they would pick up & clean during this time. It was amazing how much they could get done.

[catherine]

Catherine, maybe a solution would be to confine the mess to rooms that have doors that can be closed. Then keep the rest of the house picked up. Even if not clean a picked up house will look like it is. A friend of mine that was really messy devised a system where her & hubby would set a timer for 15 minutes everyday & they would pick up & clean during this time. It was amazing how much they could get done.

I agree.. when my kids were small we had "10-minute clean-up" and we would all be chanting that stupid up-tempo circus cartoon tune (you would know which one I mean if I played it for you) and with 6 people x 10 minutes, that's 1 man-hour of labor! You can make a dent in that amount of time!

But as for DDIL, it's not even the clutter. She's not a "neat freak"--she's a "clean freak." She hates dog hair and any other signs that we haven't mopped up in the past 24 hours. She's much more of a germaphobe than I am. I don't even believe in anti-bacterial hand sanitizer. She should shop at "Hand Sanitizers 'R Us" because she has ones for her pocketbook, for her bathroom, kitchen, common areas, car, and diaper bags. I'm not saying I'm not clean, but, when she comes over I feel compelled to get on my hands and knees and swab the decks.

And yes, the presence of DGS only exacerbates the need for bleach.

[Williamsmith]

The key for me is if I keep my life ordered, not fill it up with too many commitments, then I will take the time to place everything back where it belongs. Once the house is stripped of all its clutter and everything is in balance, that's the way it stays and there is not a need for a cleaning spree. Of course there is scheduled maintenance for laundry, floor cleaning, sweeping carpets, sanitizing bathrooms, but the biggest reason for clutter and accumulated mess is simply failure to maintain an ordered simple atmosphere for your self.

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, yes your dil has a problem with germs-that is excessive. Also it is not good to use the hand sanitizer as it makes it so you are no longer resistant to germs & more likely to get sick. I would not do all that extra work before she comes over. It sounds like she has the problem & not you.

[kib]

The key for me is if I keep my life ordered, not fill it up with too many commitments, then I will take the time to place everything back where it belongs. Once the house is stripped of all its clutter and everything is in balance, that's the way it stays and there is not a need for a cleaning spree. Of course there is scheduled maintenance for laundry, floor cleaning, sweeping carpets, sanitizing bathrooms, but the biggest reason for clutter and accumulated mess is simply failure to maintain an ordered simple atmosphere for your self. I find this interesting because I agree with it, but I live with someone who definitely does not. While it boils down to "simply failure", I think it's more complicated than that. WHY the failure? I can't chalk up to coincidence the fact that in a decade, nothing is ever completely finished. It's like that concept of leaving a flaw in a tapestry as honor to God's perfection. If the clothes are put away the dresser drawer is left open. If the dishes are washed there is a dirty fork left in the sink. I can laugh about the little ones, it's like a calling card and it helps me to recognize the effort that was made. The bigger unfinished messes, not quite so funny.

[Teacher Terry]

My hubby is very messy so I confine him to garage, his office & big shed. The rest of the house I keep neat & uncluttered which means I pick up after him-ugh! However, I knew this before I married him as we lived together for 5 years first. Also he has gotten somewhat neater.

[kib]

Teacher Terry I have the same basic strategy, which makes me disagreeable at times, but I guess it's a reasonable compromise. I think it's the suspicion that he thinks he's superior to cleaning up after himself, i.e. superior to me who does, that gets to me, but that's probably not the reason for it so I try to let it go. Still ... yesterday he starts going through his stuffed and wrinkled magazine basket one item at a time. I say 'oh, getting some stuff for the recycling bin?' He says no, just looking for something, and then after looking at every single mag and finding the one he wants, shoves them all back in the general direction of the basket, taking it from controlled chaos to a needs-my-attention mess. Why in the name of Hazel the Maid couldn't he do both things at once? Even with a gentle prompt? Grr.

[SteveinMN]

DW claims that after she, for example, butters a piece of bread she just does not remember to put the knife in the sink or dishwasher. The knife (and the crumbs) remain on the counter. A few times I just left the knife there to see if she'd notice. I gave up after several days; she never sees it. Sometimes the knife acquires a workmate that also sits on the counter after use. We've had numerous conversations about it and I'm convinced it's not passive-aggressive behavior. But it's irksome at the same time.

This is the same woman who cannot remember, when leaving a room, to switched off the light she switched on, but if I leave a light on in the kitchen (for guests, etc.), she'll switch if off. Every. Single. Time. This also is the same woman who will open a drawer on the bathroom vanity to take out something (hair dryer, cosmetics, etc.) and puts it back but somehow forgets -- about two inches from closed -- to keep pushing the drawer all the way.

Science is powerless to explain it. All of it. Good thing I love her. If she were just a roommate, this would drive me crazy.

[ETA Not that I don't have little things I do. I'm just amazed at how often this happens despite discussion.]

[kib]

Thanks, Steve. :) The drawer thing is most especially mysterious.

[Williamsmith]

The drawer thing is quite self evident. She's the type of person that doesn't like closure.

[KayLR]

Steve, I almost blew out my tea through my nose! You described me to a tee! My DH has not trained me yet. I feel bad about it, but I'm just the distracted type. My mind is often just somewhere else.

[SteveinMN]

The drawer thing is quite self evident. She's the type of person that doesn't like closure.
Heh. I do believe you've nailed it! :)

[SteveinMN]

I'm just the distracted type. My mind is often just somewhere else.
Her daughter uses the term "scattered". I try not to use that term because I don't handle "scattered" well.

[Teacher Terry]

So I am not alone in having a distracted, messy spouse. It is a good thing I love him because like Steve said I would not tolerate a room mate like this:))

[Kestra]

So I am not alone in having a distracted, messy spouse. It is a good thing I love him because like Steve said I would not tolerate a room mate like this:))

I find this interesting as so far I'm tolerating messy roommates better than I did a messy spouse. I think because there's no emotional connection, no joint decisions, I don't feel that my roommates are disregarding my feelings or anything if they are messy. I don't feel any need to clean up after my roommates as I don't have the same desire to keep "our house" nice as I did when I was married. I just worry about my own bedroom and cleaning up after myself in the kitchen. Hmm, definitely something I need to ponder further, exactly what the differences are, and what my emotional triggers are. Will probably be important re: future relationships.

[KayLR]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm messy; I definitely would have dealt with the knife on the counter right away. But my husband is always asking me if my business in a drawer, cupboard, etc. is finished. I think I work so fast I just don't always get them closed....or I think I'm going to get back into them again in a little minute....so I don't close them right away. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[SteveinMN]

I find this interesting as so far I'm tolerating messy roommates better than I did a messy spouse.
I think one can deal with roommates with more distance/casual-ness than one can use with most spouses/significant others.

Since I left my last day job, my job has been to take care of the house, so it's kind of all in the job. And DW has compensations beyond frequently forgetting to finish what she starts. I could have a wife who always puts away what she takes out and closes every door she opens -- and has some other serious issue (distracted driver, more-than-social drinker, etc.). This is not a major deal; I never go to bed angry because of it and she'll laugh about it as much as I will. I just wish I understood her mind process a little better.

[markcuban]

I am terrible when it comes to cleaning up after myself. It's a huge problem. I've gone and downsized everything, became minimal but yet there is still clutter. I swear that even when I go ultralight camping, I still make messes.

It all piles up after a few days because I take things out and tell myself I'll put it away later but later never comes until it's all a giant mess. When something has to go in the garbage, I think to myself, "the garbage can is so far away, I'll just leave it here on the counter..."

So are there any easier ways to make house cleaning easy and more simple? Is there a way to make it fun or enjoyable?
And how on earth do I motivate myself to actually want to clean up after myself in the moment?

For example, after I cook a meal and eat it, I don't feel like cleaning everything up afterwards, I just feel like relaxing. I know some people get up after a meal and clean everything up right away but I never feel like doing it so it doesn't get done.



I can understand cleaning is a major concern. Check out the following link:

http://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/popular-cleaning-tips

Here, you will surely find the easiest and simple ways of house cleaning.

[19Sandy]

I fill up the sink first and wash dishes as I cook. By the time I am finished eating the pans are cool enough to dunk in water, so I wash what is left and I am done. I don't let things pile up. If there are other people in your home, then they should help out with the cleaning too.