On the Ask a Manager blog today

[frugalone]

http://www.askamanager.org/2015/08/i-feel-meh-about-working-am-i-supposed-to-be-more-passionate.html#comment-854047
(http://www.askamanager.org/2015/08/i-feel-meh-about-working-am-i-supposed-to-be-more-passionate.html#comment-854047)
I've often felt like there was something wrong with me because I feel "meh" about most jobs I have had, or downright hated them. In fact, the "meh-ness" of my current job is what caused me to sign up for the MFA program in creative writing (in the Open Forum, my MFA dropout thread talks about that a bit). I'm not sure I have any great passion for anything. I enjoy different hobbies--making beaded jewelry, writing, art journaling, playing with my pets. But there 's no One Big Thing.

Can you relate to the OP on the above blog?

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yea but instead of spending 1/3 of your life working, 1/3 sleeping and 1/3 playing. I spend 1/3 working, 1/3 sleeping and 1/3 commuting ....

ok that's an exaggeration of course. But I really need out of this, no more commuting ever again if kind of what I vow (yea that seals the deal on never buying property only renting - don't care). Live within walking distance of work, now if I did I may drive the 2 miles or whatever I determine walking distance is (yes I can walk that far) out of sheer lazy, but the thing is theoretical walking distance at least (ie could reasonably walk if not lazy). And the thing is many people have worse commutes than me.

A job as calling is an enormously privileged point of view as at most 20% of the population could possible have it. The other 80% can't. Not having a choice of careers seems an enormous blessing to me, to just join the guild the parents belonged to, oh heck yea middle ages here I come! (ok not all of it was so good of course, I don't really want to live in the middle ages, I just wouldn't mind something similar is all).


If you are reasonably content and able to earn a living that allows you to support your life outside of work (and it sounds like you are), go on doing what you’re doing.

yea the problem is it always leaves me too chronically tired to have much of a life outside of work. I think the working plus a life outside work is JUST AS MUCH OF A LIE, as the "everyone will have fulfilling careers" story. Let's tell the truth: most people will work careers they have no interest in and often dislike and come home too tired to do anything else. Work to live but subtract the "live" part. So work to survive is more accurate. I've been told all this hating (of work) might be what is tiring .... work to live, hate it, tire oneself out with hatred - plus 2 hours of commuting a day!, don't live, survive.

[frugalone]

I often think there's something wrong with me because I come home from work and I'm quite tired. I've never been a ball of energy but it's been worse over the last decade. Hello, middle age!

[kib]

I never liked the commitment of a permanent job, even though most of the jobs I've had in my life, I held for years. I want to be the person who comes in, does a jaw-dropping amazing job for a small but adequate amount of pay (ok in the perfect universe, for an obscene amount of money but whatever, fair pay is fine), and then disappears forever! When I was "on" I was a dream employee, but when I needed to recharge or had a pressing personal job to do in my "spare" time, I was most certainly not, apathetic at best and legitimately fire-able at worst. The dispatch job was perfect for me because I could work 220 blazing brilliant hours in 14 days and then drop off the face of the earth til I felt like doing it again.

Are other people like that too? Somehow missing the regulator that allows for a steady and positive (but not excessive) flow of energy into a job over years or even decades, even if you make yourself show up?

[ApatheticNoMore]

Working to spend the money you earn working enjoying life also seems overstated. Yes that's an ideal, it's like an advertising slogan, with pictures of pretty perfect people! Maybe work and spend the money to compensate for hating work is often more accurate. Spend it all on therapy or massages to deal with your work stress, or at least on starbucks lattes as it's the only thing that makes getting up in the morning not an exercise in wanting to scream ... Yea of course one could make coffee at home, but I can understand the impulse behind wanting to go somewhere that seems nice like hey even a corporate starbucks before having to go to the grind. To feel like *something* about the day starts out nice, that it's not all grey. I've often thought I need something like that, that even getting a small breakfast once a week at a restaurant before work might be nice, but make no mistake it would be spending money to compensate for disliking work, I wouldn't do it if retired.

How are you to know the difference between work that is just "meh" and work you hate? Is hate really only for extreme circumstances, the boss that is verbally abusive, the 60 hour marathon work weeks? (and of course even worse circumstances than this exist but I'm talking white collar) And everything else is really just "meh"? If you've always done similar kind of work how do you even know?

Though I would definitely lean toward the describing work as hating it, hate is a strong word, it's more like overwhelming monotony, every work day is EXACTLY like every OTHER work day, groundhog day forever. It feels crazy to live life that way. And the fact it takes all one's energy from anything that might not be monotony.

[frugal-one]

http://www.askamanager.org/2015/08/i-feel-meh-about-working-am-i-supposed-to-be-more-passionate.html#comment-854047
(http://www.askamanager.org/2015/08/i-feel-meh-about-working-am-i-supposed-to-be-more-passionate.html#comment-854047)
I've often felt like there was something wrong with me because I feel "meh" about most jobs I have had, or downright hated them. In fact, the "meh-ness" of my current job is what caused me to sign up for the MFA program in creative writing (in the Open Forum, my MFA dropout thread talks about that a bit). I'm not sure I have any great passion for anything. I enjoy different hobbies--making beaded jewelry, writing, art journaling, playing with my pets. But there 's no One Big Thing.

Can you relate to the OP on the above blog?

I never had a position that I was passionate about either and had many that I absolutely hated. I love being retired and have not missed working for a second. You definitely are not alone. I had a highly paid position, did it well, and was respected. It didn't matter at all to me. When working I felt I needed to do a good job since I was being paid but it was not hard to leave since I really didn't care about it. "Meh" sums it up.

[bekkilyn]

You are a multipotentate, renaissance woman, or what Barbara Sher calls a scanner. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/287818.Refuse_to_Choose_

It's quite normal for a sizable segment of our population, but not highly valued in our current culture so we end up feeling like misfits.

[Williamsmith]

Growing up, I wanted to do two things. Pilot airplanes or own a family farm. I did the first at the age of 16 but My family couldn't afford to keep sending me to flight school. Push came to shove and I finally landed a career as a State Trooper. There was nothing about the job that appealed to me. However, I was highly respected, received many commendations and citations, and otherwise performed my duties as required, often above the standard expected. It was all done out of personal pride. There was never any real joy and many instances of personal grief and tragedy. The job literally transformed me into a different man. One I wasn't too proud of mostly due to the stress I soaked up along the way. Upon retirement, I set out to rediscover myself as I was before. I have made great progress in the last five years and feel grateful to have come out the other side so to speak relatively unscathed.

[frugalone]

Yes, I'm familiar with Sher's books and "scanners." I've often thought it describes me well!


You are a multipotentate, renaissance woman, or what Barbara Sher calls a scanner. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/287818.Refuse_to_Choose_

It's quite normal for a sizable segment of our population, but not highly valued in our current culture so we end up feeling like misfits.

[iris lilies]

Growing up, I wanted to do two things. Pilot airplanes or own a family farm. I did the first at the age of 16 but My family couldn't afford to keep sending me to flight school. Push came to shove and I finally landed a career as a State Trooper. There was nothing about the job that appealed to me. However, I was highly respected, received many commendations and citations, and otherwise performed my duties as required, often above the standard expected. It was all done out of personal pride. There was never any real joy and many instances of personal grief and tragedy. The job literally transformed me into a different man. One I wasn't too proud of mostly due to the stress I soaked up along the way. Upon retirement, I set out to rediscover myself as I was before. I have made great progress in the last five years and feel grateful to have come out the other side so to speak relatively unscathed.

i am glad for you, that you are actively reclaiming the "you" that you knew before your stressfull job took its toll.

Thank you for your service as a State Trooper. I can understand the sentiment of coming out the other side still whole.

[Williamsmith]

Iris lilies thank you. All is well that ends well.

[catherine]

I don't feel "meh" for my job. I really enjoy the tasks, and the intellectual challenge. I feel blessed that the pay has enabled me to climb out of subsistence living and pay for my kids' education and be much more mentally and physically comfortable.

However, as I've posted here, I do feel a conflict these days. At 63 I feel like I'm packing my suitcase for my last trip. The suitcase is smaller than it was when I was 30 or 40 or even 50. Not the same amount of room to pack things in.

So, in my suitcase of life, do I want to take up most of the space with this job? Helping pharmaceutical companies earn more money? I'm not going on another trip, and I don't get to pack another case, so I have really think about that.

I read this article this week, and it brought me to tears. It was written by an ad exec in his 50s, dying of cancer, and it's a rant about his whole life thinking that his job gave his life meaning, but ...

http://www.lindsredding.com/2012/03/11/a-overdue-lesson-in-perspective/

Why did this essay make me cry??

I battle with this all the time. If I had my IRS debt paid off and the mortgage paid off, it would be a whole different story. I would continue to do what I'm doing, but only take on 1 project a month. That would give me a nice chunk of change and also enable me to do volunteer work, develop my permaculture skills, explore other paid options. But I've, luckily in a big sense, been SO BUSY this year. I'm juggling 4-5 projects at any one time. My husband has gone to the permaculture farm to volunteer in my stead. I haven't even had time to go to membership meetings for The Community Food Alliance and the local watershed group. I have to turn down requests from my DDIL for visits with my DGS.

All just to feed the beast.

As Jose Hobday said in the book that Williamsmith recommended, the simple life is the free life. I love my life, and I even like the work that I do. But in this way, I don't feel free. I feel bound to an attachment to my house. I really have to meditate on that, because I'm now working for my house. Last night I was thinking about Derrick Jensen--he always says, if you need help thinking through something, go ask a tree. Maybe that's what I'll do--although I think a tree is going to be biased.

Do I want to take this last trip of my life with ONLY a market research outfit in my suitcase and no room for any other?

That's all a bit of a sidebar, but the topic is a great one. I enjoy working. I have no problem working until I'm 70 or 80 even. But I quit my corporate job in order to balance my life. When you're self-employed, you have much more control over that. Now I'm in the same position I was back in 2008, working 60 hours a week, running a treadmill for Big Pharma and so that I get to keep my house.

Again, I'm not cursing the gods that put me here! I'm SO lucky to be a solo worker with more work than I can handle!! But I am asking them for guidance at this stage in my life, because it's all in my hands.

[bekkilyn]

So, in my suitcase of life, do I want to take up most of the space with this job? Helping pharmaceutical companies earn more money? I'm not going on another trip, and I don't get to pack another case, so I have really think about that.


What you said here is one of the reasons I decided to quit my corporate job and go back to school in order to get a teaching license. I didn't want to keep helping CEO's to get richer, but instead wanted to spend my time directly helping people who really need it and yet still be able to pay my bills. There could be times in the future where I might temporarily go back into corporate if the situation warrants it, but at this point, I don't think I'd do it again for the long-term. Over time, it's just not very satisfying.

It sounds very much like you're definitely going to need to better balance your work situation because working 60+ hours a week, even in something you like doing, is not very sustaining for the long-term without the risk of it more negatively affecting your health. Even if you can't drop it down to only 1 project as you would ideally like to do, would it be possible to drop it to about 3 projects instead of the 4 to 5 that you're currently doing?

[Teacher Terry]

When I was young i had many jobs I hated. Then in my late 30's returned to grad school & had a job I really loved helping people with disabilities return to work. I did not always like the work environment-it depended on management above me but always loved the actual work I did. This is one reason I still do p.t. consulting in this area. Catherine, have you looked at all the options so you could work p.t.? Maybe downsize, buy a condo or rent. I am 2 years younger then you & would not want to be working as much as you or even 40 hours/week at this point.

[Williamsmith]

I was fortunate in that I was able to retire from a full time career early in life. My income took a 40% hit. Looking at the future projects that needed done I came to the conclusion that it was time to downsize and a condominium community made the most sense. I sold half of what I owned and gave away another 10 or 20 %. I wasn't expecting to feel as free as I do. It was one of better choices I've made.

[frugal-one]

"Now I'm in the same position I was back in 2008, working 60 hours a week, running a treadmill for Big Pharma and so that I get to keep my house."

The REAL question ... is the house worth it?

[catherine]

"Now I'm in the same position I was back in 2008, working 60 hours a week, running a treadmill for Big Pharma and so that I get to keep my house."

The REAL question ... is the house worth it?

That is exactly the real question.

[ApatheticNoMore]

No house is worth it IMO! Unless the house really means: my family is here (but aren't they actually elsewhere except for BIL?), my friends are here, and I don't want to leave that. Or also of course if one's current location was the only one they could find work in (but since it's self-employment isn't it portable?). I suppose also if one really had fallen in love with the locale and knows it is the place for one.

[catherine]

No house is worth it IMO! Unless the house really means: my family is here (but aren't they actually elsewhere except for BIL?), my friends are here, and I don't want to leave that. Or also of course if one's current location was the only one they could find work in (but since it's self-employment isn't it portable?). I suppose also if one really had fallen in love with the locale and knows it is the place for one.


"my family is here (but aren't they actually elsewhere except for BIL?)": True, my only family here other than DBIL is my DS and DDIL but they are thinking about moving to SC
"my friends are here, and I don't want to leave that": Nope, no good friends here
"one's current location was the only one they could find work in (but since it's self-employment isn't it portable?)": Yes, my work is portable, so N/A
"one really had fallen in love with the locale and knows it is the place for one": Nope: I do like the general area (an hour from NYC and an hour from PHI) but the town has no town center or cohesion overall.



So the reasons I love my house are:

I have a nice yard that abuts a park that I don't have to maintain.
I get to grow vegetables and flowers (that's why I'm not liking the idea of a condo very much)
I just redid the kitchen (and less recently, the bathroom) to my liking
I like my neighbors, even though we never socialize, and I love the diversity of the neighborhood
I have plantings that I have chosen over the years that come back
I have a beautiful little zen garden that I and the birdies love
We do know a lot of business owners, and general residents of the town: i.e. this is our HOME
It's accessible to Newark, so for business travel, it's really easy
It's my children's home (I have one DS who is VERY attached to the family home)
I love being able to get to NY or PHI in an hour.


Places I would consider moving to:
Ocean Grove, NJ
Burlington, VT
North or South Carolina
Connecticut shoreline

NJ & CT would present some of the same difficulties in terms of cost of living (actually Burlington VT ain't cheap, but 3/4 of my kids live there, so it would be more worth it)

[frugal-one]

So, do the pros outweigh the cons? Do you have time to enjoy the things of your house working 60+ hours a week. Only you can say.

[Williamsmith]

I'm just going to show you that it can work.....

The place I sold I lived in for 23 years.
I hunted and otherwise hiked several hundred acres that abutted my property for all those years with the owners permission.
I grew a large garden complete with all the space eating vegetables like sweet corn and potatoes.
I remodeled the kitchen with custom hickory cabinets, Italian porcelain flooring and granite countertops, one year before I sold.
I had a very enjoyable pellet stove in the fireplace that was great to sit in front of during January and February blizzards.
My neighbors were good friends.
I had a perennial garden around my house that took many years to develop.
I had a complete woodworking shop in my basement where I made pieces of furniture as a hobby.

Even so, circumstances brought me to the conclusion or I should say conviction that moving was the right thing to do at this time. I believe this....as long as you remain open to all possibilities and are not afraid to investigate other avenues, then you will be mentally prepared when the time comes. Because although I was dedicated to the process, I found it so difficult I probably would have given up had I the slightest doubts.

[KayLR]

Yep, definitely normal. I like my job because my coworkers/boss are great people and I have a lot of freedom. I don’t particularly care about the work I do, beyond the care I need to do it well. I have non-work passions, and I work to pay for those.

This was a quote from the comments below the article linked in the first post. They represent my feelings exactly. I like my job; don't LOVE it. It's ok, and I do get to meet interesting people often enough that the job doesn't become mind-numbingly dull.

I love my life before and after work.