maybe dating someone

[Zoe Girl]

i am putting myself out there, with a little push. i know i tend to keep to myself and then it gets too much to be by myself all the time. i also realize that not everything will be love at first sight, but after i called this guy i am wondering how to evaluate. we have been on 2 dates and he has been very nice. he obviously comes from a different world in some ways but has always been respectful of what i am talking about. so he is in construction and i am in education. we had a great talk about meditation and that was something he was really interested in. Another time i told him about an anti-racism class, about how to be a white ally, that i am taking online. He had no context whatsoever for this but he asked lots of questions and seemed curious. he is also white and hasn't said anything racially that would give me a red flag. and we went to a movie, he said he didn't really like hollywood type films but he had no experience with independent films. Again he was really great about it even though he was only 50-50 on the movie. i haven't felt a lot of attraction but right now with a bit of depression thing going on i don't feel much attraction in general

i called him last night, it would be easy to not call and just let it drop, but i thought about calling him and did. we had a nice talk where he was nterested in what i was talking about. 2 things came up that have me wondering, one was i told him how much i earn and he was shocked and then even more shocked when i explained how things work in education. He had dated someone who was a professor, had of course a Phd and was taking a semester to write a book. He still didn't think she earned that much but he asked if i could just do that or somehow 'fix it'. And the thing i have been concerned about is that he isn't divorced. he is filing himself, no lawyers, and is not seeing his kids much because of his ex. if i felt an overwhelming connection or attraction that would be one thing but i really don't want to help someone through this. there are huge triggers for me i think in the process, first of all an assumption that if someone doesn't earn an income level they can just fix it and then with a divorce he needs to process.

i am pretty sure that i don't want to see him again, i would if he was divorced maybe. i had a horrible divorce and aftermath and i did not date because i knew that someone else would get too much of my crap. i also have this feeling that after the initial getting to know you phase that he simply isn't going to be on the same page like why i go out of my way to take an anti-racism class and many social justice issues that are important to me and i talk about a lot. now i feel bad for calling him but i don't feel bad that i am trying a little.

[Tammy]

We tend to get very involved in our career areas over time and then it's easy to assume that others know what we know. He's in construction. So he knows little about how education works. Education is one of those careers where there's a lot of emphasis on degrees and the pay is still low compared to many other occupations where you don't need a degree at all. So someone not in it might assume that since you need a degree you must make lots of money.

I think teachers and social workers are grossly underpaid, heavily overworked, and still have all kinds of licensure and education requirements. I know associate and bachelor degree nurses who make over 100,000, for example.

I wouldn't worry at all about his lack of knowledge about your career field.

Now the fact that he is still married could make things tricky ... Emotionally.

[ApatheticNoMore]

first of all an assumption that if someone doesn't earn an income level they can just fix it

you are reading way too much into that because of personal sensitivities and defensiveness, not everyone cares all that much what others earn! Really! And lots of people think that, especially if it's been true for them. I suppose he's doing the male advice giving thing as well :) Some might ask: how does what one earns even come up quickly in dating, but I could see scenarios: if one party wants to go out to dinner for a date or do another activity that costs money while probably considering it a small price to pay for a good time with company, and the other never has any money etc. Maybe he's just shocked earning more in construction (I don't know if he does but he could) and if he believes education is the key to economic opportunities, he's wondering how this can be the case when he's been able to move up in the world of construction by sheer strategy or whatever and you have the "magic key" of all this education and can't. Personally, money whatever, I mostly wonder why you stay in such a bad situation from other than just a money perspective at work (isn't there maybe another school district an hour away or something you could try? :) - but maybe not until the kid is 18?) but I would openly admit I know little about a job situation I know little about.


and then with a divorce he needs to process.

Now that's a bigger issue. Depends on if one is okay with dating someone separated but not divorced or whatever, some just postpone the divorce because it's a lot of hassle especially if the other party is not cooperating and dragging their feet but ...

[kib]

I know what you're saying, but don't feel bad for calling him. It sounds like this last call was something of a nail in the coffin for you, where you were undecided before. It's nice that you met someone who wasn't a total jerk, but if you're this unenthused, why struggle through it.

[Kestra]

I know what you're saying, but don't feel bad for calling him. It sounds like this last call was something of a nail in the coffin for you, where you were undecided before. It's nice that you met someone who wasn't a total jerk, but if you're this unenthused, why struggle through it.

I agree. The exact reasons don't matter. If after three encounters you aren't that interested, just don't continue.

[freshstart]

I know associate and bachelor degree nurses who make over 100,000, for example.


Now the fact that he is still married could make things tricky ... Emotionally.

I cannot get over those nurse salaries. Even our NPs rarely make that much. Are you having a shortage so they get paid a premium or do you think it's because of where you live, maybe higher COL? I was in the wrong dang state!

When I dated, men seemed to get back on the horse quicker than many women. Does he have an official separation agreement at least? If he was super fantastic and had a legal agreement, I would think about it. If they've done nothing legally yet, I would probably drop him because then it's adultery and couldn't she use it as grounds against him?

I got legally separated in '02, not divorced until end of '04 because he would not cooperate. Friends, family even my lawyer (!) told me to date, what if this went on even longer? It's legally kosher to date when officially separated. Dating was the furthest thing from my mind. It took me a few years to process and get past my divorce. I don't think men are built that way, but I am clearly no expert, lol

Good luck! Oh, I am with you on independent film, if he likes that after a few more movies, I'd give him bonus points!

[Dhiana]

There is a point in life where we all come with extra baggage, whether it be exes, kids, pets, personality quirks, fears, etc from the life we've lived so far.

A soon-to-be ex...this could be a really nice no pressure way to baby step into the dating pool. Just enjoy someone's company for a while. No expectations for a while.

[Tammy]

I work at a large public inner city safety net hospital. Our pay rates are higher for a reason. ;)

In rural ohio rates were about half of where I work now.

The nice thing is that cost of living in Phx isn't too bad compared with other large U.S. Cities. If you stay away from the McMansion/commuting culture.

[SteveinMN]

When I dated, men seemed to get back on the horse quicker than many women. Does he have an official separation agreement at least? If he was super fantastic and had a legal agreement, I would think about it. If they've done nothing legally yet, I would probably drop him because then it's adultery and couldn't she use it as grounds against him?
Many states now have "no-fault" divorce laws, so it isn't necessary to specify one of a few selected reasons (adultery, mental cruelty, etc.) to divorce. OTOH that may not be the case in ZG's state.


I got legally separated in '02, not divorced until end of '04 because he would not cooperate. Friends, family even my lawyer (!) told me to date, what if this went on even longer? It's legally kosher to date when officially separated. Dating was the furthest thing from my mind. It took me a few years to process and get past my divorce. I don't think men are built that way, but I am clearly no expert, lol
I'm no expert, either, but I am a man :) who has divorced.

By the time XW and I had gone through counseling and I moved out and filed, I had done a lot of the emotional work associated with the divorce. I knew I still had "work" to do. At the same time, though, it had been a long time since I had been in a healthy relationship with a woman and I was looking forward to that -- someday. I knew I didn't want a committed relationship so soon, but I wanted to date. The landscape certainly changed in the 20 years since I dated last!

Well, tl;dr, I ended up in a somewhat-committed relationship fairly quickly. My new girlfriend knew I was not yet legally divorced. But I knew the marriage was over; I just lacked the piece of paper that said so. XW dragged her feet as long as she possibly could throughout the entire event. Before I realized it, almost two years had gone by and I still didn't have the final decree. I still had the girlfriend. I still hadn't done "the work". That relationship ended when I realized I wasn't going to do the work while I was part of this relationship and when her event horizon and mine didn't even come close to syncing. I do feel badly that I ever let it get that far. Chalk that up to experience.

I don't know if I'm the typical guy in this. I think a lot depends on the divorce. A guy who feels blindsided by his (ex-)wife dropping him is going to have more to process than someone like me, who checked out gradually. I think the kind of person who feels they cannot live happily without a romantic partner is going to have to do more work than someone who can be at least OK with their new marital status.

One woman I dated for 3-4 months seemed to be on a mission to find a man because her ex had canoodled with someone far younger than her "I'll show him!"). We broke up and I heard that she was engaged mere months after we ended. A friend of mine kept marrying women (serially; including the same one twice) because he was more romantic than reflective -- until he realized what his haste had cost him. People have their own needs and timetables.

I don't recall ever dating any women who were not-quite-divorced. But if I had, I think I would have evaluated the situation once things started to look serious. Go with your gut, ZG. Not yet being divorced should be a flag that trips other questions. If this relationship is over, you no longer need to be the one asking. But he certainly needs to think about it.

[Zoe Girl]

thank you all, yeah the earning thing is more about my buttons than anything else so that isreally not an issue. we are all going to have that. but he seems to have a lot of anger in the divorce situation and unfinished business which is why i think he could use some good friends (he appears to have no social group or activities beyond restoring a car with his dad) i am sure he comes by it honestly but for once i am not here to rescue the broken puppy!

meanwhile i had this random and awesome conversation when i did a job fair yesterday. Guy just sits down and talks about being a brick layer, shows me all the walls in the building he has done. then he says ' i don't know why i am here' so i ask if he means next to the cafeteria or more existential. the conversation leads to his BA in political science and masters in some type of international studies, and my BA in humanities with a minor in philosophy and a masters in education. there was a little zen thrown in and a discussion of how iraq happened. i was more attracted to him than either of the guys i have gone out with, and he was 62 and not unusually attractive or not-attractive. so apparently i am attracted to deep conversation above all, not just flowed in being attracted to anyone.

[kib]

:) Now that guy sounds like a possibility!

I married someone much more newly divorced than he let on, and in retrospect I should have been more aware of how much of his action and attitude was really more about "showing her" by moving on than it was about being ready for a new relationship. That anger is a huge red flag to me. Not that people who get hurt don't deserve to be angry, but if that's where his head is right now ... getting back on the horse might feel like healing, but it's not the same thing. If I were you, I'd go lay some bricks instead! ;)

[freshstart]

ITA with Kib!

[Karma]

Maybe he should date after his divorce and you should wait until you are in a less depressed state, perhaps only with people in the education field. :)

[ApatheticNoMore]

perhaps only with people in the education field. :)

maybe. I mean I was thinking about the anti-racism class and how it would naturally be of interest to you if you see a way to apply it (in teaching? or do you see some other application?) and naturally of minimal interest to him if he saw no real way to apply it (as he sees no way to apply it in his career, sure don't be a racist construction guy, but he probably isn't anyway, so beyond that?). Stuff is often interesting to the degree it's applicable and we can see a way to use it and do something with it, and less interesting to the degree it's just abstract knowledge or even worse: "all the depressing problems in the world that we can't do much about" or even worse: "all the reasons to feel bad about being white"

Oh I don't care if you date him or not, I was just reading a book on race and thought about it. Part of it talked about how schools and race interact and usually in a bad way (oh trust me you wouldn't want to date me even if I was a guy even if I read a book on race, I'm not necessarily trying to save the world (because again I mostly can't) I read it because the particular authors intellectual take is interesting, racial bias almost as interactions between races that mutual enforce a dysfunctional status quo. See I'm an INTP and honing tools for interpreting and abstracting the world is all). As for myself I'd be happy to meet a guy who seemed to be looking for something other than a one night stand I often think. Yes dating pool does seem that bad. :( Maybe I'm on the wrong site. No more Ashley Madison for me! (just kidding on that last part ;))

[ejchase]

There is a point in life where we all come with extra baggage, whether it be exes, kids, pets, personality quirks, fears, etc from the life we've lived so far.

A soon-to-be ex...this could be a really nice no pressure way to baby step into the dating pool. Just enjoy someone's company for a while. No expectations for a while.


I agree with this, if having a companion interests you.

[Zoe Girl]

Oh I don't care if you date him or not, I was just reading a book on race and thought about it. Part of it talked about how schools and race interact and usually in a bad way (oh trust me you wouldn't want to date me even if I was a guy even if I read a book on race, I'm not necessarily trying to save the world (because again I mostly can't) I read it because the particular authors intellectual take is interesting, racial bias almost as interactions between races that mutual enforce a dysfunctional status quo. See I'm an INTP and honing tools for interpreting and abstracting the world is all).

i like digging into the intellectual stuff as well. i think that changes are small and personal so i am not starting an initiative or anything, but i did have the PTA president and school principal include me in a conversation about equity which is very good. we are actually in a position to go into this work a little. in fact (total side note) they are doing some data around the school to jail pipeline and have a measure. basically being suspended from school drastically increases your chances of ending up in jail, so they are looking at data around the percentage of behavior problems that are suspension as compared to in school consequences and how that falls racially. if schools are giving brown kids more out of school suspensions as compared to white kids. okay something we can wrap our heads around, and do something about. Provide more in school restorative justice options and check who is getting them. Fascinating stuff, - and i totally went off topic.

i did talk to this guy one more time for some reason, he talked a lot about not having friends because he doesn't like certain types and the people he works with are 'beneath him'. He is in construction with a 2 year english degree, i worked at target with a masters and didn't always have things in common but didn't think others were beneath me.