Experiment in simple living with girlfriend...

[Ultralight]

Up to this point I have been rather hesitant to discuss my relationship with my significant other because of how it conflicts with my simple living.

By this I mean my significant other owns a 3 bedroom house, lives alone there, and has lots and lots (and LOTS) of stuff.

I convinced her to take a trip with me and live the simple life for a week and a half. She chose to do the Air BnB thing, so we rented a small (tiny!) apartment near Palm Beach in Aruba. I took a medium-sized backpack and what was in my pockets (multi-tool, keys, and wallet). She took a surprisingly moderately-sized bag and her purse. The apartment was roughly 300 square feet. Two bedrooms, a small kitchen with small appliances, a normal sized bathroom, and a small porch that thankfully took the place of a living/TV room.

We ate very simply. PB&J, grilled cheese sandwiches, tropical fruits, scrambled eggs, and some chopped veggies. We also went out to eat for lunch or dinner, to get seafood (it was Aruba after all). And we'd grab a smoothie here and there too.

For transport we took the bus mostly, but also hoofed it (along the beach sometimes). :)

We just got back last night, so I am not sure if the benefits and beauty of simple living resonated with her enough to get on board. But I would really like it to be something she and I share.

[Kestra]

That's one of my favourite parts of travelling - staying in little cabins and such, with minimal things. It's a great reminder of the small amount of stuff I need to be happy. I actually just wrote about that on my blog this morning, as I was housesitting last week, and needed very little to live a pleasant life.

[Ultralight]

Kestra:

What is interesting is that I think for many, many people that is what they enjoy about travelling. They like getting away from their stuff, keeping it simple, enjoying experiences and the people they are with.

My question (that is unasked of her) is why not integrate much of those practises and values into your daily (real) life?

[Kestra]

Kestra:

What is interesting is that I think for many, many people that is what they enjoy about travelling. They like getting away from their stuff, keeping it simple, enjoying experiences and the people they are with.

My question (that is unasked of her) is why not integrate much of those practises and values into your daily (real) life?

I had the same issue with my ex. He loved the minimal, nomadic life when we went away, as much as I did (he even used to drive long-haul truck, which is about as minimal as you can get). But when we got back home he wasn't willing to actually make any big changes. But to give him the benefit, he was certainly fine with less stuff and a smaller house than the average person making the kind of money that he was/we were. He still is considering the full-time RV plan, but in 18 years or so. I needed to live my life now. And I'm certainly on the extreme end of the small housing/minimalist spectrum. I can see why not everyone wants to live like that.

[Williamsmith]

My first year being married we lived in a one room about 10 by 20 space with an attached bathroom. That was it. We divided the room in half. One side a bed the other a couch and bookshelf with a tv on it. This was all we had plus a pickup truck. We were house parents to nine severe and profoundly disabled children. Of course we had some staff that work shifts but I look back at that experience and I know why I am thankful for everything we ever had after that.

For some reason, your description of Aruba made me think of that right down to the food we ate. We used to walk past this telephone booth down the street and check the change return because there was always something in it. Those were the minimalist days when I just thought I was poor. Who knew.

[Tammy]

How did you get a multi tool through airport security?

[Ultralight]

My first year being married we lived in a one room about 10 by 20 space with an attached bathroom. That was it. We divided the room in half. One side a bed the other a couch and bookshelf with a tv on it. This was all we had plus a pickup truck. We were house parents to nine severe and profoundly disabled children. Of course we had some staff that work shifts but I look back at that experience and I know why I am thankful for everything we ever had after that.

For some reason, your description of Aruba made me think of that right down to the food we ate. We used to walk past this telephone booth down the street and check the change return because there was always something in it. Those were the minimalist days when I just thought I was poor. Who knew.

Interesting background. The work you did must have been incredibly challenging in itself.

[Ultralight]

How did you get a multi tool through airport security?

Dime Traveling. :) http://www.gerbergear.com/Essentials/Tools/dime-travel_31-002777

This is my second Dime. While I am not handy, I use my multi-tool for everything (darned near!) that you'd need a tool for. I broke my other one; I tend to be rough on my equipment.

Leatherman makes one too, but I think it is bigger and bulkier. I like the Dime because it fits on my key ring with my keys.

[freshstart]

this is all very good, I'm impressed by a woman traveling for a week and a half with a medium sized bag! sounds like she enjoyed the trip, maybe her thoughts will start to change if she realizes you can have fun on a budget.

[Ultralight]

I am sort of in a "wait-and-see" mode to find out if she comes away from the trip with any life lessons about simplicity that she'll want to get into.

[kib]

I'm not a huge fan of traveling on the back of my husband's motorcycle, but that is the one thing that really feels great: wow, between us we have one two wheeled vehicle, a couple of tiny saddle bags and a backpack, and that's all we need. We could just keep driving forever!

I think there's a different mindset that goes along with nesting. No matter how often I've tried, I can't bring the bare essentials and then fill in what I really need, I wind up bringing Stuff just because. Because it's already mine, because why get rid of 20 perfectly good dishtowels, because I'm going to lose 10 pounds but in the mean time I can wear all this old stuff, because I can fit another 10 boxes into the moving truck ... vacations are minimalist fantasy, it's much easier to go away from your stuff temporarily than to send your stuff away for good.

The above notwithstanding, I've become much more of a minimalist over time, I think it's partially polarization, hubby is a hoarder or sorts. At this point it's my fantasy relationship to share a life with my man, but not a home. I'd be quite happy with a 10*14 cottage in the back yard. :~) If you can keep the two-dwelling concept going, I'm betting the sharing of a minimalist outlook will be a LOT easier.

[Ultralight]

kib:

Interesting thoughts there...

I am scared of motorcycles, so you are more brave (or reckless) than I! ;) haha

But, with that said: You have heard of Rob Greenfield? For a few years I was able to have everything he owned fit on a mountain bike with one of the little trailers on it. Kinda like your motorcycle situation (minus the "holy crap I am scared" part!)

What is most interesting to me in your comments was this idea of nesting. People can really get into it. I also think some people are more nesters and others are more ... what is a term... nomadic? Thoughts?

The two dwelling situation is okay, but expensive. If she and I shared a small apartment, we'd both same some cash!

[Teacher Terry]

Couldn't you guys still save cash by you moving into her house?

[corkym]

The happiest days of our marriage was when we were first married living in a two room converted garage. Friends stayed with us all the time in that tiny shelter. And they brought their animals with them. We slept on the floor and left the back door open to see the stars and trees. We had no bills and walked everywhere. It was Santa Barbara in its simple days. We went to the beach and dollar movies for entertainment. We would hike up the hill to the county bowl behind where we lived to go to concerts or just stayed home and listened to the music from our place. We had no encumbrances. Nothing held us down. We really were free as birds. I wonder a lot what happened and how did we go from Heaven to becoming so earthbound with all the things we think our necessary to live. We were content then with barely nothing and now worry all the time trying to maintain the yard and the house and our possessions. We are slowly working on turning back the clock to the simpler days. I admire all of you.

[Ultralight]

Couldn't you guys still save cash by you moving into her house?

Probably, but let us just say that her house is not conducive to my lifestyle. And the commute would be like 45 mins in normal traffic just to get to my job. Also, all the places I fish are like 40 minutes or more from her house.

[Ultralight]

The happiest days of our marriage was when we were first married living in a two room converted garage. Friends stayed with us all the time in that tiny shelter. And they brought their animals with them. We slept on the floor and left the back door open to see the stars and trees. We had no bills and walked everywhere. It was Santa Barbara in its simple days. We went to the beach and dollar movies for entertainment. We would hike up the hill to the county bowl behind where we lived to go to concerts or just stayed home and listened to the music from our place. We had no encumbrances. Nothing held us down. We really were free as birds. I wonder a lot what happened and how did we go from Heaven to becoming so earthbound with all the things we think our necessary to live. We were content then with barely nothing and now worry all the time trying to maintain the yard and the house and our possessions. We are slowly working on turning back the clock to the simpler days. I admire all of you.

You recognize how good you all had it back then! You can do it again. :)

[kib]

At some point as a motorcycle passenger you realize you have zero control over your life and you could die at any second. absolutely none, absolutely any. At this moment, you either decide never to get on the back of a bike again, or you fall into a state of disconnected suspension and crank up the tunes, start playing Free Cell, observe the scenery, or spend a few hours marveling at how itchy all that buzzing under your butt gets.

I'm sometimes appalled at how "nesty" I can get. I go to a foreign country and I'd be perfectly happy to spend the first day getting settled into my hotel room. :|( What I really care about is order and functionality, I don't need a lot of things but I want to be prepared, whether that means bifocals in a restaurant so i can read the menu or solar panels on the roof and batteries on the back porch in case TEP goes toes up.

[Teacher Terry]

It sounds like you and your girlfriend are far apart on how you want to live. Going on vacation is very different from how you live everyday. It never hurts to see if some compromise can be made that will make you both happy. Good luck!

[Ultralight]

It sounds like you and your girlfriend are far apart on how you want to live. Going on vacation is very different from how you live everyday. It never hurts to see if some compromise can be made that will make you both happy. Good luck!

Thanks.

[Williamsmith]

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Williamsmith http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?p=212281#post212281)
My first year being married we lived in a one room about 10 by 20 space with an attached bathroom. That was it. We divided the room in half. One side a bed the other a couch and bookshelf with a tv on it. This was all we had plus a pickup truck. We were house parents to nine severe and profoundly disabled children. Of course we had some staff that work shifts but I look back at that experience and I know why I am thankful for everything we ever had after that.

For some reason, your description of Aruba made me think of that right down to the food we ate. We used to walk past this telephone booth down the street and check the change return because there was always something in it. Those were the minimalist days when I just thought I was poor. Who knew.



Interesting background. The work you did must have been incredibly challenging in itself.

Ultraliteangler,


Six were wheelchair bound. Three were ambulatory. None were verbal...just sounds and grunts and screams. Two could feed themselves. None could use a bathroom. They all wore a diaper called "attends". Only one had regular visits from their biological parents. Lots of medical problems and alot of challenges. I learned about humbling yourself in the presence of others struggles. I learned to help people instead of pity them. I learned I was capable of doing things I never thought I could do. In the end...it made me a better person and I appreciated my life more than ever.

[Ultralight]

Williamsmith:

Your Kung Fu is the best. I respect what you have done because I sincerely doubt I could do it, even if I wanted to.

What do you do now?

[Williamsmith]

I retired at age 51 and now I work at a golf course. I value peace and quiet over almost anything else. Simplicity is part of that for me.

[Ultralight]

I retired at age 51 and now I work at a golf course. I value peace and quiet over almost anything else. Simplicity is part of that for me.

Amen, brother!

[corkym]

Thanks for the encouragement UltraliteAngler :thankyou:

"You recognize how good you all had it back then! You can do it again. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/8834[1].gif"

[Miss Cellane]

Kestra:

What is interesting is that I think for many, many people that is what they enjoy about travelling. They like getting away from their stuff, keeping it simple, enjoying experiences and the people they are with.

My question (that is unasked of her) is why not integrate much of those practises and values into your daily (real) life?

Re: the bolded. Because your vacation was idyllic; real life is not.

And I would question if everyone enjoy getting away from their stuff the way you do. That's not why I go on vacation. I go on vacation to get away from work, to get away from people (I am a loner), to get away from routine, to see new places and learn new things. If I could take more of my stuff with me, I probably would.

Real life isn't a warm tropical island, at least for most of us. My real life involves clothing for 90 degree, 95% humidity weather and clothing for 6 feet of snow, sub-zero weather. It involves cooking hot meals on cold nights and making salads on hot nights. It involves hobbies and work (which requires different clothing), and housekeeping (which involves vacuum cleaners, dusters, scrubbers, a washer and dryer, etc.).

I speak as a person who owns stuff. Clearly much more than you do. I've eliminated a lot of stuff over the years--over 1,000 books before my last move three years ago. But I still have a lot of books. Now I am practicing the one in, one out method, but I'm no where near getting rid of all the books. I've whittled down the clothing, but I still have plenty of clothes. For me, there is a certain amount of comfort in having most of my stuff--enough underwear that I don't have to do laundry constantly, enough books so that there is always something to read, enough furniture to seat 9 adults--that's the number of siblings and their spouses--I want my house to hold all of them, if not all their combined 13 children.


I think if you are non-preachy and non-judgemental, you *might* begin to have an effect on your girlfriend. And by "effect" I mean that she might let go of some of her things. But if it is in her nature to get comfort from some of her stuff, you will probably not be able to bring her to your level of minimalism.

For many years, I was in a relationship with a very minimal sort of guy. His studio apartment had a futon on the floor, one director's chair, a wooden table. The apartment was part of an old house that had been divided up--there was a fireplace in the room and he used the mantel as his bookshelf. If he got a book that didn't fit, another book had to go. Two mugs, two plates, two sets of flatware. Four pairs of jeans, 10 t-shirts, one button-down shirt, one pair of khakis, two pairs of Chuck Taylors, one pair of loafers, 8 pairs of socks.

I didn't mind visiting, but I could never live like that. That wasn't the cause of our eventual break-up, though. He kept his place and I kept mine, and he preferred to visit me, rather than the reverse, I think because I was the better cook and had a better equipped kitchen. We broke up for reasons completely unrelated to his minimalism.

But had he at any point started to try to change the way I lived or the number of things I had, it would have caused a serious breach in the relationship. He lived his way and I adapted when I was there, and vice versa. Our apartments were a 15 minute walk apart, so seeing each other frequently wasn't a problem (neither of us had cars).

[Ultralight]

I find it interesting that when I explain to people how I would like for my gf to live the simple life with me and be a minimalist too they suddenly think I am trying to push it on her or control her or make her get rid of her stuff.

That is just not the case.

I think my gf deserves some credit. She is her own person and can make her own choices --- about her stuff and about being in a relationship with me. I am no Svengali! haha

[kib]

I know you know, but in our culture, "stuff" has a lot more meaning than just excess things we happen to accumulate. I think the older we get the more that acquisition aspect can get out of control, but there are reasons for having stuff that go deeper than just incidental accumulation. Identity, status, physical and emotional comfort, 'nesting' desire, sentimental attachment, loneliness, competence, the hunter-gatherer thrill, entertainment possibilities, the ability to help and share with others, earning possibilities, security, convenience and personal success and appeal are all, rightly or wrongly, linked with Stuff.

Peeling off the layers of reasons a person has a lot of stuff can be more complex and sometimes delicate than actually peeling off the stuff itself. Personally I'm not saying you shouldn't explore the concept with your gf, but you may find it's a touchy subject, most people don't want their layers peeled off by someone else and many people don't want their layers peeled off at all, thank you, which is probably what you're hearing in some of these threads.

I say this as a person who really wants to divest myself and peel, married to someone who has deep seated emotional issues surrounding their stuff. I'm living and learning and making some mistakes. His MO is to basically ignore what bothers him, but I feel I've made some errors in my 'peeling enthusiasm', had he been a different person this could have made for some very uncomfortable problems. So again, I'm not seeing your enthusiasm and hope as wrong, just advising a slow pace.

[Ultralight]

I know you know, but in our culture, "stuff" has a lot more meaning than just excess things we happen to accumulate. I think the older we get the more that acquisition aspect can get out of control, but there are reasons for having stuff that go deeper than just incidental accumulation. Identity, status, physical and emotional comfort, 'nesting' desire, sentimental attachment, loneliness, competence, the hunter-gatherer thrill, entertainment possibilities, the ability to help and share with others, earning possibilities, security, convenience and personal success and appeal are all, rightly or wrongly, linked with Stuff.

Peeling off the layers of reasons a person has a lot of stuff can be more complex and sometimes delicate than actually peeling off the stuff itself. Personally I'm not saying you shouldn't explore the concept with your gf, but you may find it's a touchy subject, most people don't want their layers peeled off by someone else and many people don't want their layers peeled off at all, thank you, which is probably what you're hearing in some of these threads.

I say this as a person who really wants to divest myself and peel, married to someone who has deep seated emotional issues surrounding their stuff. I'm living and learning and making some mistakes. His MO is to basically ignore what bothers him, but I feel I've made some errors in my 'peeling enthusiasm', had he been a different person this could have made for some very uncomfortable problems. So again, I'm not seeing your enthusiasm and hope as wrong, just advising a slow pace.

If it came off that I have enthusiasm or hope for my gf becoming a minimalist then I surely phrased things incorrectly! haha

[Miss Cellane]

I find it interesting that when I explain to people how I would like for my gf to live the simple life with me and be a minimalist too they suddenly think I am trying to push it on her or control her or make her get rid of her stuff.

That is just not the case.

I think my gf deserves some credit. She is her own person and can make her own choices --- about her stuff and about being in a relationship with me. I am no Svengali! haha

Well, you do want her to change, no? That's what your post sounded like, and if I recall correctly, some previous posts. And assuming that you might, at a future point, try to get her to change is a logical assumption from that.

And if you don't think she should change, why do you post about this? Your way is good for you, her way is good for her. That's the point I was trying to make--I, the complete non-minimalist, lasted years in a relationship with a super minimalist--because we never even thought that the other should change this aspect of themselves.

I guess the real question is, why do you want your girlfriend to live your lifestyle? There are a lot of different answers to that. What is yours?

[Ultralight]

Well, you do want her to change, no? That's what your post sounded like, and if I recall correctly, some previous posts. And assuming that you might, at a future point, try to get her to change is a logical assumption from that.

And if you don't think she should change, why do you post about this? Your way is good for you, her way is good for her. That's the point I was trying to make--I, the complete non-minimalist, lasted years in a relationship with a super minimalist--because we never even thought that the other should change this aspect of themselves.

I guess the real question is, why do you want your girlfriend to live your lifestyle? There are a lot of different answers to that. What is yours?

Of course I want her to be an SLer/minimalist. I would like for her to change. I'd like the world to change too, but I am not holding my breath.

I don't want her to live my lifestyle exactly. Minimalism is something of a meta-lifestyle -- a lifestyle for a lifestyle. While I fish, other minimalists are writers or joggers or Trekkies or farmers or boxers. You see?

[Miss Cellane]

Well, if you like your girlfriend the way she is, why do you want her to change? Why do you want her to adapt the minimalist part of your lifestyle?

[Ultralight]

Well, if you like your girlfriend the way she is, why do you want her to change? Why do you want her to adapt the minimalist part of your lifestyle?

We'd have more time for each other. Right now we hardly have time enough for love. I only get to see her one or two days of the week, usually Fri and Sat. She is always working her job or her side job or mowing lawn or doing chores or shopping or what have you.

[freshstart]

just curious, why does she have a house with 3 bedrooms all by herself? Does she have kids? It's really hard to stay a minimalist starting the day you find out you're gonna have one, kids need stuff, lots of stuff even when you raise them to be frugal.

ITA with a slow pace and realizing it's incredibly difficult to change people if they are not sure they want to change, no matter how much you love each other. You could do the Mia Farrow-Woody Allen thing, apartments across the street from each other, they would visit each other, wave from the windows. I thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But in the end, not so hot for Mia.

[Ultralight]

just curious, why does she have a house with 3 bedrooms all by herself? Does she have kids? It's really hard to stay a minimalist starting the day you find out you're gonna have one, kids need stuff, lots of stuff even when you raise them to be frugal.

ITA with a slow pace and realizing it's incredibly difficult to change people if they are not sure they want to change, no matter how much you love each other. You could do the Mia Farrow-Woody Allen thing, apartments across the street from each other, they would visit each other, wave from the windows. I thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But in the end, not so hot for Mia.

I don't know why she has a 3 bedroom house. She does not have any kids, she does have two dogs.

I don't actually think that kids need a lot of stuff. It is my opinion that parents outsource attentive parenting to stuff. "Here kid, go play with this toy or watch this TV!"

Why did it not work for Mia?

[freshstart]

he married her 21 year old adopted daughter

With kids I'm not talking toys and all their crap, I mean just out of the gate: crib, clothes, diapers, breast pump, maternity clothes and basic needs for food, shelter, clothing. I did buy most of my kids stuff at garage sales until they got older and the clothes at garage sales were not in good shape. Then they have art work you want to keep and they do need toys, not expensive ones. And one day you look around and remember the life before them and it's eye-opening.

But that's not an issue here, so actually that makes it easier in a way, she doesn't have huge mounds of kid-related stuff. Maybe the dogs each have their own room, lol?

[kib]

Just thinking back in the old days i always thought a 3 br would be a dream home for me: bedroom, office, guest room. I have discovered I don't need anywhere near that much space, but it once represented my idea of the right amount.

[Ultralight]

he married her 21 year old adopted daughter

With kids I'm not talking toys and all their crap, I mean just out of the gate: crib, clothes, diapers, breast pump, maternity clothes and basic needs for food, shelter, clothing. I did buy most of my kids stuff at garage sales until they got older and the clothes at garage sales were not in good shape. Then they have art work you want to keep and they do need toys, not expensive ones. And one day you look around and remember the life before them and it's eye-opening.

But that's not an issue here, so actually that makes it easier in a way, she doesn't have huge mounds of kid-related stuff. Maybe the dogs each have their own room, lol?

Well, I hope I never have kids. I try to be careful but I have not gotten a v-sec. :/

The rooms are full of her stuff, clothes mostly.

[Kestra]

Well, I hope I never have kids. I try to be careful but I have not gotten a v-sec. :/



Risky, that. Out of curiosity - would you have to pay out of pocket there? Here, it seems surgery is the only birth control the government pays for, which seems strange. It's kind of an important thing for low income people to have easy access to. Maybe it's different now - I haven't dealt with that for many years.

[Ultralight]

Risky, that. Out of curiosity - would you have to pay out of pocket there? Here, it seems surgery is the only birth control the government pays for, which seems strange. It's kind of an important thing for low income people to have easy access to. Maybe it's different now - I haven't dealt with that for many years.

Women I am with are on birth control and/or I use a condom. Yes, I would have to pay for the surgery and/or use my insurance through my employer.

[freshstart]

Just thinking back in the old days i always thought a 3 br would be a dream home for me: bedroom, office, guest room. I have discovered I don't need anywhere near that much space, but it once represented my idea of the right amount.

I had a 2000 sq ft townhouse, me and two kids. It wasn't huge but had lots of rooms, 3BR, 2 BA, but the basement was finished off nicely so I made a family room and an office I soon realized I would never use, tried over the years to make that room serve a purpose, none found. And we never used the FR, the kids always wanted to be upstairs. The kids are close to launch, I realized I absolutely do not want to keep this house for one person. The unused space bugged me when there were three of us. Me, alone? I would almost feel guilty having that space, even though my mortgage was cheap, way less than rent. You couldn't get me outta there fast enough. My folks and I decided to sell our houses and join forces on a handicapped accessible house for my mom. I feel so much better that rooms are used, we don't have more house than we need. Downsizing just made me feel so much better, the house is practically the same sq ft but more people are in it.