Little Ice Age?

[miradoblackwarrior]

Hi, all--
Last year the Boston area (where I live) had over 120 inches of snow. Many of us are still reeling from pictures of snow up over our houses, and snowfalls of 2 feet or more in one night. The big snow pile only just (finally) melted away, leaving a disgusting pile of trash and debris. Oddly enough, some of my friends are still traumatized by the thought of another winter like that. Now I am seeing web pages purporting that there isn't really climate warming, but climate cooling. These sites (and some of them are well-recognized) say the sun is entering a period of lessened activity, which might cool the earth. The result is a little ice age, which is actually a perfectly normal occurrence in planetary history. I'm not so sure how I feel about this, but I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about it? I'm already thinking about next winter, and how to cope with the chill and the huge snow piles. Last year was traumatic enough, watching the snow climb the walls until it threatened to take down the roof. I'm not saying we will have another extraordinary snow fall, but it is traumatic enough that we are still talking about it, even if the outdoor thermometer reads 96! What do you think?
Susan

[Ultralight]

Susan:

Interesting stuff, but I am not up-to-date on sun activity research, though I do think climate change is both real and anthropogenic.

All I can say is: "I will keep both my winter coat and my flip flops."

[Kestra]

Hi, all--
Last year the Boston area (where I live) had over 120 inches of snow. Many of us are still reeling from pictures of snow up over our houses, and snowfalls of 2 feet or more in one night. The big snow pile only just (finally) melted away, leaving a disgusting pile of trash and debris. Oddly enough, some of my friends are still traumatized by the thought of another winter like that. Now I am seeing web pages purporting that there isn't really climate warming, but climate cooling. These sites (and some of them are well-recognized) say the sun is entering a period of lessened activity, which might cool the earth. The result is a little ice age, which is actually a perfectly normal occurrence in planetary history. I'm not so sure how I feel about this, but I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about it? I'm already thinking about next winter, and how to cope with the chill and the huge snow piles. Last year was traumatic enough, watching the snow climb the walls until it threatened to take down the roof. I'm not saying we will have another extraordinary snow fall, but it is traumatic enough that we are still talking about it, even if the outdoor thermometer reads 96! What do you think?
Susan

Not sure about the climate, but wanted to comment that I couldn't believe what you had to deal with last winter. That was completely insane. It made my Winnipeg winter seem like a cakewalk. We actually had less snow than usual. I don't know if we've ever had it as bad as your area did. Hopefully next winter will be a lot better for you.

[Rogar]

Those living in California or the Pacific NW may have a different perspective. NOAA claims that 2014 was the warmest year on record (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201412) and I continue to side with what the majority of climate scientist are telling us about global warming. Part of that seems to be radical weather patterns that may not necessarily include hot temperatures in localized regions, like the big snows in Boston. For us out west they are predicting one of the strongest pacific El Nino effects in decades this winter with unusual snow and rainfall in some areas.

[JaneV2.0]

Seattle's summer was the hottest on record, as far as I know. Oddly, I haven't noticed the heat much; maybe I've become acclimated. I'm not looking forward to this winter--the experts are divided on whether it will be mild or disastrous.

[oldhat]

With the usual caveat that weather isn't climate, it looks like global warming is affecting weather and will increasingly do so. Trouble is, just how it's going to affect the weather in any given area remains uncertain. At least that's what the scientists seem to be saying. What happened in Boston may have been a fluke or it may presage the new normal.

[Williamsmith]

Those living in California or the Pacific NW may have a different perspective. NOAA claims that 2014 was the warmest year on record (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201412) and I continue to side with what the majority of climate scientist are telling us about global warming. Part of that seems to be radical weather patterns that may not necessarily include hot temperatures in localized regions, like the big snows in Boston. For us out west they are predicting one of the strongest pacific El Nino effects in decades this winter with unusual snow and rainfall in some areas.

Scientists also claim that our Earth is 4.5 billion years old. If 2014 was the warmest year on record that means since humans have been keeping record which is only back as far as 1880. 135 years. Seems like too small a sample to reach conclusions for me.......unless you have some agenda.

and I deal with 100 to 140 inches of snow every winter so not much sympathy from me...sorry.

[iris lilies]

Great heavens OP, the giant snow mound melted in August!!!? I can't comprehend this.

[miradoblackwarrior]

Oh, I know 120+ inches isn't much in the rural parts. I was born and raised in upstate NY where this is nothing. What was the hardest to handle with last winter was that ALL the snow dumped in over an 8 week period. That would be hard on anyone!
Susan

[Rogar]

Scientists also claim that our Earth is 4.5 billion years old. If 2014 was the warmest year on record that means since humans have been keeping record which is only back as far as 1880. 135 years. Seems like too small a sample to reach conclusions for me.......unless you have some agenda.

I don't think climate prediction is a perfect science and there is probably room for error, but have never quite understood how 97% or so of the climate scientists might be following some hidden agenda. I am a scientist by training and education and generally have found the profession to be objective and fact based. Of course there are exceptions, but not seen it to be widespread.

[Ultralight]

I don't think climate prediction is a perfect science and there is probably room for error, but have never quite understood how 97% or so of the climate scientists might be following some hidden agenda. I am a scientist by training and education and generally have found the profession to be objective and fact based. Of course there are exceptions, but not seen it to be widespread.

Rogar:

I say this: If you took your car to 100 accomplished mechanics and 97 of them said: "Transmission is shot" and 3 said "Not real sure what is wrong with it" would you just accept that the 97 mechanics were right about your car?! Come on! Have a reasonable amount of skepticism here.

[bae]

Seattle's summer was the hottest on record, as far as I know.

I had lunch the other day with Cliff Mass, my favorite weather guy for the Pacific NW. He was up to help some of us do demand and supply projections for water systems and our electrical power cooperative. He characterized this year as a serious statistical outlier, and not the product of any longer-term climate change trend, and it's pretty obvious when you look at the graphs. He did observe that the weather here this spring/summer is about in line with the midrange 2080 climate-change projections...

His blog is full of fascinating data and observations, and well worth reading through now-and-then, especially if you are in the Pacific NW:

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/

[Ultralight]

I don't think climate prediction is a perfect science...

There is only one perfect science: Creation Science!

[Rogar]

Well, Ultralight, if my transmission were popping out of second or making a grinding noise and leaking fluid, I'd tend to believe the 97. Likewise, when the global temperatures are the hottest on record, I'd tend to believe the the climate scientists on global warming. My skepticism is that climate prediction isn't a perfect science. We actually do have some climate data before record taking, in ice core samples from the arctic, for example.

[Ultralight]

Well, Ultralight, if my transmission were popping out of second or making a grinding noise and leaking fluid, I'd tend to believe the 97. Likewise, when the global temperatures are the hottest on record, I'd tend to believe the the climate scientists on global warming. My skepticism is that climate prediction isn't a perfect science. We actually do have some climate data before record taking, in ice core samples from the arctic, for example.

Science is for sinners.

[bae]

Science is for sinners.

"Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." CCC #159

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c3a1.htm

[Ultralight]

I am just playing around on a Friday afternoon. ;)

[peggy]

Scientists also claim that our Earth is 4.5 billion years old. If 2014 was the warmest year on record that means since humans have been keeping record which is only back as far as 1880. 135 years. Seems like too small a sample to reach conclusions for me.......unless you have some agenda.

and I deal with 100 to 140 inches of snow every winter so not much sympathy from me...sorry.

This is true. However scientist have other ways of looking at past climate other than personally recorded numbers. Ice core samples, layered signs of climate in a given time, etc... Our scientist are quite good at sussing out past events like volcanoes, ice ages, etc... Remember, we like to reference the ice age yet we don't have Joe Caveman taking notes and drawing charts. The science that tells us volumes about the ice age (like the fact that it happened) is the same science that tells us how warm the years are in relation to past history.
Violent weather (climate is what you expect, weather is what you get) is different from our norms. Like the OP's winter (gads!) which we all don't want to experience, thank you very much! This is also evidence of global warming. Global warming doesn't mean we will all just spend more time at the beach. It actually causes more violent weather and unstable weather patterns. (If they weren't unstable that would be the norm and we wouldn't be talking about them) I suppose it will eventually even out and then these new patterns will be the norm. In the meantime, we are in for a ride.

When they talk about sea rise, keep in mind it won't take 10 feet, or even 10 inches of sea rise to disrupt things. 1 inch. That's all it takes to render useful land useless. 1 inch...and land that was used for grazing/crops/building/ is useless. Completely un-useable for any of those things. One inch of standing water...sea water, and you have a fen. Or a bog. You don't have a street, or a pasture, or a crop. You have water.

Some say 'Let's just build a dam. Ok..you're gonna build a dam around the entire US? Really? We can't fix the infrastructure we have now. And we're gonna build a US dam? I think most people don't realize how much land is at sea level in this country. And in the world. How many islands will be lost?

I'm inland, and on high ground, so I'm good.;) isn't that the attitude I'm supposed to take? I know more water means generally more water everywhere..(sorry IL but you're screwed! Maybe not you bae but maybe your mom) Frankly i think it's too late. Between the US republicans head-in-sand and China's don't-give-a-sh*t I think the climate is destined to find a 'new' normal.

As far as I go, I'm following the guidelines in my plant/seed catalogs, which put me firmly in a warmer zone that just a few years ago. No politics there. Just people who want their plants/trees to be successful in my area so I'll buy from them again.:)

[kib]

Just an aside, I think "weather" is just what the climate happens to be at a certain moment in time, whether it's extreme or just a nice sunny day. - and I always laugh when NPR says the weather is brought to me by so and so. Well thank you Dermatology Services of Tucson, where would I be without you. :~)

-- other than that I agree with what you're saying, it's about disruption, and what sounds like small change can have huge impact.

[Williamsmith]

"In the meantime we are in for a ride."

Like the record amount of tornadoes we have had this year.......NOT!

[peggy]

"In the meantime we are in for a ride."

Like the record amount of tornadoes we have had this year.......NOT!

Yeah! And really, if world hunger is such a problem, how do you explain my breakfast of steak and eggs? ;)

If you really expect climate change to be Armageddon-all-the-time then there's no problem. it's all good.

[creaker]

El Nino is supposed to be pretty big this time around, which generally means milder winters around Boston. Not sure how that translates into snow, though.