The Good Neighbor ... from hell.

[kib]

Someone please give me a shot of backbone, thank you. Or maybe a shot of tequila with a backbone chaser. I seem to have backed myself into one of those corners where you just keep saying ok, because saying no becomes more and more awkward.

My insurance company has made ominous noises about painting that needs to be done on my second home, as well as having a problem with a tombstone rose tree that was growing onto the roof. The tombstone rose is special to me, it's ... let's just call it my semi colon. I planted it at the lowest point in my life, about 15 years ago, and it has been a reminder of strength, beauty and rebirth ever since, something growing big and protecting my little house - and me, I guess. It's huge, six or seven trunks as big as my calf at the base, at least 30' tall.

My next door neighbor there is an insurance agent, and he offered to help prune the rose (for pay). I girded my loins, it needed taming and I figured I'd also get a new ins policy, throw him a bone, and said Ok, but talked about how it is special to me, and how my other neighbor had asked that the canopy of vines that goes into her yard be left alone, I agreed it was lovely and wouldn't be touched. DH and I went down this weekend, about a two hour drive, and the three of us began tackling The Tree. I went into the house to get a drink and DH was on the roof, when Neighbor decided that it should be cut off with a chainsaw a foot from the ground and proceeded to do so, then spouting off about how he's not a halfway kinda guy, the house looks better this way. on and on.

This feels a bit like being assaulted. I was so shocked I couldn't speak. I spent the next few days envisioning his brains splattered via chainsaw over the side of my house without the slightest bit of discomfort.

However, SIGH. Done is done, and after making my displeasure known, well known, I agreed to go ahead with the policy.

NOW, he's calling me up and saying that there's just the matter of the pine tree in the back yard hanging over the house, and if I'll give him permission to "clean that up" he can finish up the policy. I was just up on the roof. One branch is brushing the gutter.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. M**th**fu****r get the **** away from my tree, you g*** f**** co****ing control freak!! GET AWAY FROM ME. DON"T TOUCH ME. I can feel my eyes bulging with adrenaline as I'm typing.

... I have some boundary violation issues. :|(

So anyway, a shot of backbone please. I guess advice of how to do this without causing a neighbor crisis might help ... we're both gonna be here a long time, and we've had civil relationship til now. except when he poured poison on my organic garden because of that pesky catalpa tree ....

[razz]

Do you really want an insurance policy with that kind of an agent? Are you nuts? Does that help?:(

[freshstart]

yeah, I wouldn't want him as an agent or to give him a commission with his company. So is your tree gone beyond it ever coming back? If so, i'd want to take him to small claims court, the sane people around me would talk me out of it. I would maybe do the other thing he asks if it's bad enough to come back to bite you in the ass for not doing it. I know you want to be a good neighbor but that is not a one way street. After the tree thing, I'd say whatever you need to talk about, send me a letter and reiterate how upset you are over losing a beloved tree that it's not a good time to talk. Sorry you are stuck with him.

[ApatheticNoMore]

"Thanks" but you called around and "decided to go with another insurance agent/agency" /end of conversation. Ok at this point in my life I'm better at lying (better and better all the time) than backbone :~) Maybe I've just met too many hard sell types for which I'm poorly matched (even when I win I'm so burned out by then it ruins my day).

[rosarugosa]

Kib: I'm so sorry this happened to you. I think I would be pretty devastated. I would voice my displeasure in the most civilized manner I could muster. I would never give him my insurance business and I certainly wouldn't let him help with any more pruning.

[miradoblackwarrior]

If you have that block on saying no, tell him you appreciate the offer, but you can no longer trust him to keep yourneeds/desires in mind, then remind him (growling) of how he destroyed your tree. I agree, this man doesn't care about you. It sounds to me he is chain saw happy. Anything left standing in his yard?

By the way, did he trespass on your yard?
Susan

[catherine]

I would go nuts, too. I would cry and grieve and if I could press assault charges, I would. OMG. There is no way you owe him business, no matter how good a deal it might be. Don't let him touch your pine tree!!! He's already said he's not a half-way kind of guy. Tell him you're definitely a "middle-way" kind of gal. If you went to a beauty parlor and they gave you a buzz instead of a trim, would you go back to the same place?

Seriously, when it comes to the policy, I feel for you because I'd be exactly where you are right now. I tend to delegate unpleasant communication tasks, so I'd sic DH on him. Can you do the same? Guys have a different way of communicating--my DH might say something like, "Hey man, appreciate your help with the tree..haha, I know catherine told you she thought you went too far, but WTF, it's just a tree, right? It grows back! [a little back slapping here, neighbor nods and smiles]. But about the policy, our insurance agent gave us a sweet deal so I think we're just going to go with that, man. You understand, right? But listen, just tell me how much we owe you for the yard work--the house looks great, and we'll definitely have no trouble painting it now!--come on over later, we'll have a couple beers, and I'll give you the money. You'd prefer cash, right?"

And then, kib, you have to come up with some emergency when the neighbor comes over so you can a) avoid having to look the Butcher in the face all evening while he has a couple beers on your dime and b) your DH can do the guy thing to cement neighborly bonds.

[rodeosweetheart]

I would go nuts, too. I would cry and grieve and if I could press assault charges, I would. OMG. There is no way you owe him business, no matter how good a deal it might be. Don't let him touch your pine tree!!! He's already said he's not a half-way kind of guy. Tell him you're definitely a "middle-way" kind of gal. If you went to a beauty parlor and they gave you a buzz instead of a trim, would you go back to the same place?

Seriously, when it comes to the policy, I feel for you because I'd be exactly where you are right now. I tend to delegate unpleasant communication tasks, so I'd sic DH on him. Can you do the same? Guys have a different way of communicating--my DH might say something like, "Hey man, appreciate your help with the tree..haha, I know catherine told you she thought you went too far, but WTF, it's just a tree, right? It grows back! [a little back slapping here, neighbor nods and smiles]. But about the policy, our insurance agent gave us a sweet deal so I think we're just going to go with that, man. You understand, right? But listen, just tell me how much we owe you for the yard work--the house looks great, and we'll definitely have no trouble painting it now!--come on over later, we'll have a couple beers, and I'll give you the money. You'd prefer cash, right?"

And then, kib, you have to come up with some emergency when the neighbor comes over so you can a) avoid having to look the Butcher in the face all evening while he has a couple beers on your dime and b) your DH can do the guy thing to cement neighborly bonds.

I guess I see it differently--if DH cemented neighborly bonds with a guy that did that to my tree, then DH would be looking for a new place to live. And I sure would not pay NFH. (I like that acronym for NFH and can see it used liberally!)

But I totally agree that maybe DH should do the talking, as you are right, Catherine, men do seem to have a way of communicating with other men that is beyond my understanding.

What a crappy situation, Kib. What a crappy guy your neighbor is--was he impaired when he went at the tree? SERiously, I would have DH warn him off my property--you don't want to lose the pine tree, too.

Ugh. It's a great argument against doing business with your neighbors.

[Tammy]

Maybe in those man to man talks husband gave neighbor permission to do this. And isn't admitting it.

[kib]

Thank you all.

The guy is a really loose cannon. On the one hand he really IS a good neighbor, I mean it. Always willing to lend a hand, watches out for the community. On the other hand, he's exactly the sort of personality I'm least equipped to deal with - that dictatorial, boundary violating type who seems to think whatever he wants to do really Needs to take precedence over anyone else's needs or authority. Hi, Mom! At one point he said this - the tree massacre - was necessary because it was "a nuisance". A nuisance to WHOM? As I'm in the house sobbing, I can hear him saying to DH that he always used to see me out there in my "little hat" trimming and weeding, so cute. deep breaths, deep breaths ...

The main awkwardness is that this IS a "friendship" of sorts. It's a small town and we've been neighbors for 13 years. I've always kept some distance, but for example we paid him by taking him and his wife out to dinner the night before the fiasco. - which was admittedly a stint in hell, just saying it wasn't completely unthinkable, before.

He seems to have worse problems when it comes to women's authority, I've asked my DH to be the go-between, not necessarily beer buddies but yeah, that guy-agreement business, but this incident happened when my husband was standing 6 feet away from him but unable to see what he was doing. DH is not the most assertive person either, I'm wondering if Neighbor doesn't see him as an easy mark for domination.

Ugh. DH did send a note saying he would deal with the tree next week but thanks anyway. I'm just now feeling like I need to literally go stand there with my arms crossed, like I can't protect my sanctuary unless I'm literally blocking his path.

Ominously, I actually had a conversation after the vine incident, with my fists clenched, with his wife, who said "oh that pine tree really needs to be topped, it's crooked. What if it falls over." Pair of freaks. It's crooked at the top because some ignorant moron topped it 30 years ago, otherwise it's a glorious healthy tree with a trunk three feet wide, in absolutely no danger of "falling over".

[rodeosweetheart]

This is one of the worst thing about owning two homes, Kib, I am not kidding.

He sounds very creepy--we had a neighbor like that who showed up telling us we had to move our fence (that had been here for 10 years when we moved in) and acting all friendly I will help you out, but very boundary violating--he got arrested and sent to prison the following winter for sexual abuse of a minor.

Welcome to the neighborhood. Ugh.

[Teacher Terry]

I would definitely not buy a policy from him under any circumstances. What a jerk! I would stay as far away from him as possible.

[kib]

The thing I find the most disturbing is that he won't admit he was wrong. He's entitled to his opinion about the vine or anything else, but he's not entitled to simply do whatever he decides to someone else's property, against their wishes, because it's "right" in his opinion. I don't care if he's John Muir, he has no right to make decisions about my garden.

I was raised by someone with this precise pattern of abusive control that extended down to my physical body and even my thoughts and feelings, and behavior like this regresses me to a wounded, raging, helpless child. I hate it - the behavior, and my continued inability to manage my response. The idea that he somehow knows this about me, that whatever his polarized issue with control is, he's found a "mark" for his need to dominate women, is making me crazy.

[freshstart]

I was raised by someone with this precise pattern of abusive control that extended down to my physical body and even my thoughts and feelings, and behavior like this regresses me to a wounded, raging, helpless child. I hate it - the behavior, and my continued inability to manage my response. The idea that he somehow knows this about me, that whatever his polarized issue with control is, he's found a "mark" for his need to dominate women, is making me crazy.

if this brings up those kinds of feelings, really difficult feelings, and you think he knows he's got you where he wants you, seriously stay away from him. Be busy when he comes to talk to DH, every time, he should eventually get the message but it may take a while since he is such an egoist. But you deserve to live in your home and not have to be constantly triggered by this guy. You can stay "good" neighbors but from afar and leave it all up to DH.

Our first house, we lived next to a guy in his 50s and his family, he was a really nice neighbor. Then I had a play date with an African American friend in the backyard. He came over later to say "they are not welcome on this street", at first I thought he literally meant my friend and her kids so this made no sense. He clarified, "Nwords are not welcome on this street, you need to respect that." Normally, this would push my buttons so fast I would decimate him with vitriol. But he lived very close to our house, with a vicious Rottie that wanted to eat my mini-dachshund so badly he came through the wooden fence 3 times, this dog was petrifying and I normally love dogs. So I said, "on my piece of property everyone is welcome, so you and the rest of the street (normal people as far as I knew and what it this the 50s and a whole street is racist?) need to respect that. I'm sure you can understand that (you racist, horrible, piece of shit, I left this part out, he had Cujo and tons of guns)." and shut the door. Told ex husband I would no longer be speaking to him beyond, "hello" but only if he said it first.

3 months later, there was a huge, African American man always at the house. He and the neighbor would get in loud fights in the driveway, neighbor still calling black people the Nword but now to their face, to a young man twice his size. And then his DD got pregnant by him. For once, karma worked. Except I felt very bad for that girl because I am sure he made her life miserable.

My point is if someone constantly triggers you, it really is ok not to have that person in your life. He can be DH's problem and you just wave occasionally. My neighbor triggered me so bad, I am amazed that what I normally would've done and said, did not come out. Probably because he WAS our next door neighbor and if I had escalated, it would only make my life worse. I would get a wooden fence so he can't see if you are out enjoying your yard and bug you, although that's probably expensive.

[kib]

Oh that is horrible, Freshstart.

The irony is that you're right, and I do try to avoid contact, but a huge wooden fence wouldn't work in this setting - that's WHY I have these bushes, vines and trees! I know the whole thing is starting to sound like one ridiculous metaphor, but the act of cutting the vine was analogous to tearing down a fence I'd put up specifically to keep people at a distance.