North West Earth Institute discussion courses?

[Ultralight]

Anyone else take an NWEI course?

http://www.nwei.org/discussion-course-books/voluntary-simplicity/

[catherine]

Someone here led a discussion group with the NWEI curricula a long time ago--I can't remember who it was, but that was the first time I heard of that group. I think they're great, but I have never done a course myself. I'd be tempted to host a local group, but I've never done that either, and am a bit reluctant to until I'm actually walking the walk.

[KayLR]

I took one years ago, Deep Ecology and Voluntary Simplicity. Don't remember a whole lot about it because it was, really, probably 15 years ago. Maybe longer. It did impact my lifestyle philosophy. And I embraced the notion of my "place" in the world.

[Williamsmith]

Is the Say-Do gap more about conserving resources voluntarily or transferring resource availability to another global outlet. So let's say the sponsors of this program are more about getting a bigger piece of the energy pie by guilting the consumers into voluntarily reducing their use of their resources and that in the end not a single unit of energy is saved? Does that still make it worthy? What if the energy saved by your well meaning voluntary conservation was used to fuel an ISIS brigade fighting a caliphate in Middle East? How do you know that the resource conservation you do today isn't just shifted to another consumer and really never conserved. Doesn't that just make it a philosophical exercise with no real world meaning?

[Ultralight]

Is the Say-Do gap more about conserving resources voluntarily or transferring resource availability to another global outlet. So let's say the sponsors of this program are more about getting a bigger piece of the energy pie by guilting the consumers into voluntarily reducing their use of their resources and that in the end not a single unit of energy is saved? Does that still make it worthy? What if the energy saved by your well meaning voluntary conservation was used to fuel an ISIS brigade fighting a caliphate in Middle East? How do you know that the resource conservation you do today isn't just shifted to another consumer and really never conserved. Doesn't that just make it a philosophical exercise with no real world meaning?

Williamsmith:

This really brings up some of my main criticisms of these courses, the people who design them, and the founders of the NWEI. Though I think you alluding to a conspiracy to bilk takers of these courses out of a few tons of carbon then would normally use is outlandish, I would be happy to explain what my criticisms really are.

[Williamsmith]

Williamsmith:

This really brings up some of my main criticisms of these courses, the people who design them, and the founders of the NWEI. Though I think you alluding to a conspiracy to bilk takers of these courses out of a few tons of carbon then would normally use is outlandish, I would be happy to explain what my criticisms really are.

All Im saying is motive. Do you accept that energy resources are finite? And that we are already past peak production. That the energy resources are not equally available to all earth inhabitants not due to simple geography but by intentional design of powerful people who have gained their power through criminal means and apply that influence through force and guile.

and furthermore do you accept that those entities are busy acquiring wealth and political position for protection from any threat to their piece of the energy pie even as it grows larger percentage wise.

If you believe some or all of these things then you may have some doubt as to the "motive" of the authors of such curriculum. In others words is it really about simplicity or is it about creating a population that will accept lower standards without complaint?

[kib]

I have no idea what the agenda of NWEI might be in terms of finite energy distribution. My personal goal in conservation of oil is more of an attempt at nose thumbing, the idea that if we the people don't actually need very much oil any more, if we can develop more and more technology that runs on an infinite energy source, and less need for energy, period, then the whole power struggle becomes meaningless. I understand what a tall order that is - heck, I can't even break my dependence on factory chicken - and how our own government is turning a blind eye to the idea not just because they're on autopilot but because war is profitable, but it has to start somewhere.

[Ultralight]

All Im saying is motive. Do you accept that energy resources are finite? And that we are already past peak production. That the energy resources are not equally available to all earth inhabitants not due to simple geography but by intentional design of powerful people who have gained their power through criminal means and apply that influence through force and guile.

and furthermore do you accept that those entities are busy acquiring wealth and political position for protection from any threat to their piece of the energy pie even as it grows larger percentage wise.

If you believe some or all of these things then you may have some doubt as to the "motive" of the authors of such curriculum. In others words is it really about simplicity or is it about creating a population that will accept lower standards without complaint?

The NWEI was formed the wife of a rich lawyer. Environmentalism was her personal interest (maybe a hobby?). Her husband was not into it. My cynical side says that she was a bored but well-kept housewife who needed something to do and care about. So she picked the environment. She asked her husband to fund her pet project and he was like, "Yes, dear..." and then went back to making tons of money to support their lavish lifestyle.

But I take the courses because the people who take them are likely to be members of "my tribe" that I haven't met yet -- voluntary simplifiers, minimalists, nature nuts, and so forth.

[Ultralight]

I have no idea what the agenda of NWEI might be in terms of finite energy distribution. My personal goal in conservation of oil is more of an attempt at nose thumbing, the idea that if we the people don't actually need very much oil any more, if we can develop more and more technology that runs on an infinite energy source, and less need for energy, period, then the whole power struggle becomes meaningless. I understand what a tall order that is, and how our own government is turning a blind eye to the idea not just because they're on autopilot but because war is profitable, but it has to start somewhere.

Yeah! When I ride my bike instead of drive I feel like I am saying "F--- you, Saudi Prince!" lol

[Williamsmith]

Remember the scene in the BBC documentary on Peter Owen Jones when he was escorted through the Egyptian desert by the dirt poor camel people and sitting around a fire he asked if there was anything in the world you could have what would it be?

the answer two out of three times was .....A Gas Guzzling Car!

kind of a gut check isn't it. Everybody wants to have what Americans have. That's why we have a CIA, spies and billion dollar companies money laundering all kinds of illegal money around the globe......and a military second to none. So we can keep it. The more bike riding you do....the more driving someone else can do. But if it makes you feel better.....keep on Riding. I ride because it is good for me.

[Ultralight]

Remember the scene in the BBC documentary on Peter Owen Jones when he was escorted through the Egyptian desert by the dirt poor camel people and sitting around a fire he asked if there was anything in the world you could have what would it be?

the answer two out of three times was .....A Gas Guzzling Car!

kind of a gut check isn't it. Everybody wants to have what Americans have. That's why we have a CIA, spies and billion dollar companies money laundering all kinds of illegal money around the globe......and a military second to none. So we can keep it. The more bike riding you do....the more driving someone else can do. But if it makes you feel better.....keep on Riding. I ride because it is good for me.

Why so misanthropic?

[Ultralight]

Remember the scene in the BBC documentary on Peter Owen Jones when he was escorted through the Egyptian desert by the dirt poor camel people and sitting around a fire he asked if there was anything in the world you could have what would it be?

the answer two out of three times was .....A Gas Guzzling Car!

kind of a gut check isn't it. Everybody wants to have what Americans have. That's why we have a CIA, spies and billion dollar companies money laundering all kinds of illegal money around the globe......and a military second to none. So we can keep it. The more bike riding you do....the more driving someone else can do. But if it makes you feel better.....keep on Riding. I ride because it is good for me.

Pardon me for saying so, but I think there is something about your rationale that goes beyond illogical, perhaps into the realm of outright "anti-logic."

A guy I knew in college, when the wars in the Middle East heated up, said during a debate about a possible draft: "If there is a draft, and you dodge it, then that just means someone else has to go."

No... no it doesn't. It could mean that someone else is like: "Well, Ultralite doesn't have to go... so maybe I will dodge too!"

So maybe the more bike riding I do the more someone else will think: "Yeah... yeah! I'll start biking too!"

[Williamsmith]

Pardon me for saying so, but I think there is something about your rationale that goes beyond illogical, perhaps into the realm of outright "anti-logic."

A guy I knew in college, when the wars in the Middle East heated up, said during a debate about a possible draft: "If there is a draft, and you dodge it, then that just means someone else has to go."

No... no it doesn't. It could mean that someone else is like: "Well, Ultralite doesn't have to go... so maybe I will dodge too!"

So maybe the more bike riding I do the more someone else will think: "Yeah... yeah! I'll start biking too!"

Wow, the human mind is like really amazing!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Some times there are more local impacts, like what in this example, oh reducing smog perhaps (not entirely local of course, but largely local), but it does kind of depend on the population not continuing to increase which will offset quite a lot of conservation. Saving space in local landfills might be an examples of a reason to reduce waste in the same local vein. Because global energy use is a hard one. If everyone switched to green energy would it reduce carbon, maybe not, maybe other countries would use more etc.. but it might mean shuttering the nuclear power plants because home energy use is local (we don't really have a national grid). Best to shut down the nuclear power plants before more SHTF seems to me, yea someone will debate that but does anyone really want to live in their own personal Fukishima.

[Ultralight]

Don't get me wrong! I think we're all screwed. But when End Times begin I want to be able to show that my hands are clean.

[Williamsmith]

Don't get me wrong! I think we're all screwed. But when End Times begin I want to be able to show that my hands are clean.

Just my humble opinion, but we are much farther from so called "End Times" than much of the Internet jabber would appear to reveal.

There are plenty of ways to control population without harming the environment we live in and there are people willing and able to do it. Selling the apocalypse is big business. Fear mongering has always been popular. Ever since I tucked my head under my elementary school desk to survive the nuclear fallout I believed this.

Perhaps the end doesn't have to be sudden catastrophe to achieve goals.....perhaps a slow miserable sugar obesity driven diabetic epidemic will do a fine job. And I must admit, knowing the mindset of addiction is purely brilliant because pretending that the world should give up on oil and carbon energy by predicting global chaos is a wonderful scheme. The more fantastic, the better.

So you may convince yourself that your hands are clean by your good works but by your very existence, do you not have a few stains on your hands that don't seem to want to come clean?

[Ultralight]

Just my humble opinion, but we are much farther from so called "End Times" than much of the Internet jabber would appear to reveal.

There are plenty of ways to control population without harming the environment we live in and there are people willing and able to do it. Selling the apocalypse is big business. Fear mongering has always been popular. Ever since I tucked my head under my elementary school desk to survive the nuclear fallout I believed this.

Perhaps the end doesn't have to be sudden catastrophe to achieve goals.....perhaps a slow miserable sugar obesity driven diabetic epidemic will do a fine job. And I must admit, knowing the mindset of addiction is purely brilliant because pretending that the world should give up on oil and carbon energy by predicting global chaos is a wonderful scheme. The more fantastic, the better.

So you may convince yourself that your hands are clean by your good works but by your very existence, do you not have a few stains on your hands that don't seem to want to come clean?

What I am picking up from you is that you might be doing a lot of black and white thinking. "Unless everyone rides a bike for the environment then there is not point in Ultralite riding a bike for the environment because everyone else is going to drive casrs... not matter what.

Or...

"Since you have a few stains on your hands then they can't be completely clean. And if they can't be completely clean then you might as well get them as dirty as everyone else because everyone else's hands are totally dirty."

See the black and white thinking here?

[Williamsmith]

I do not see the black and white thinking here. I see fifty shades of grey. We do see and hear what we want to see and hear though don't we?

if as you say you want to be able to show that your hands are clean....then you will have to have your hands clean....won't you?

three out of four...... if...then statements are true.

[Gardenarian]

Hey Williamsmith,

I agree that individuals using less carbon, water, etc. will have little to no impact on climate chaos.
And I do think corporations try to shift the responsibility for the environmental crisis onto citizens, when it is corporations and government corruption that are preventing any real change.
But if there is a conspiracy to make us believe we can change the world by not drinking bottled water or driving less, it doesn't seem to be working. People are using more carbon and disrupting the environment more than ever.

About the addiction thing - it is odd that the message is always "don't drink bottled water" and not "don't drink Coke, Pepsi, etc." As if those plastic bottles are less harmful. I'm quite sure manufacturers of junk 'food' encourage addiction to their products.

As for the "End Times," they are here, now, today. 200 species go extinct every DAY.

If the NWEI creates more environmental activists, I'm all for it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

About the addiction thing - it is odd that the message is always "don't drink bottled water" and not "don't drink Coke, Pepsi, etc." As if those plastic bottles are less harmful. I'm quite sure manufacturers of junk 'food' encourage addiction to their products.

I think the idea is that water comes from the tap but Pepsi does not (never mind you never need Pepsi or Coke at all). But having failures with water filters again, latest stand alone filter leaked all over the table, and maggots were having a field day (since cleaned out) and then leaked on the floor, until I realized it was leaking no matter where I moved it to. Yea I understand why people like bottled water, water filters are pure unadulterated cr@p. Waste of money. I suppose the best option if you don't like tap water is those places that sell filtered water that you can refill a few large bottles regularly maybe.