View Full Version : Putin's interview with Charlie Rose (and Obama)
I didn't hear the talk between Obama and Putin, but I did listen to the one with Charlie Rose.
I am fairly ignorant about politics....but some of what Putin said made sense........about how you have to be careful removing a bad leader, because then worse people can take over (as is the case with removing Hussein).
Did we ever think of those consequences?
What did you think about the things that Putin said? Is he not to be trusted?
It's all fairly complicated for me. I'm just a country girl who likes to grow vegetables. cow-hi
s....but some of what Putin said made sense........about how you have to be careful removing a bad leader, because then worse people can take over
Putin's regime is certainly evidence of that.
Putin is on track to become the most influential leader in the world as he engineers Russia supplanting the US as top dog on the world stage.
Putin is on track to become the most influential leader in the world as he engineers Russia supplanting the US as top dog on the world stage.
Does that mean that Russia will start footing the bill for being the world's policeman?
Does that mean that Russia will start footing the bill for being the world's policeman?
Policeman/Conqueror, it's all semantics.
Policeman/Conqueror, it's all semantics.
True. I'm sure plenty of people around the world would agree with you as regards the US currently.
Does that mean that Russia will start footing the bill for being the world's policeman?
USA GDP: ~$16 trillion
Russia GDP: ~$2 trillion
I'm not thinking Red Dawn is happening anytime soon.
вызовите пожарных!
Williamsmith
9-29-15, 9:05pm
Putin is on track to become the most influential leader in the world as he engineers Russia supplanting the US as top dog on the world stage.
Putin is the beneficiary of CIA incompetence and US foreign policy foolishness. The U.S. however, knows how to wage financial war. Problem is they already emptied the former USSR of all their resources and pissed off the Russian people so much that Putin is worshipped. All Putin is doing is showing the world how feckless and spineless the current administration is. One doesn't have to be an engineer to do this. All you have to be is bold. Does the American population have the stones to back a military presence everywhere they need one? To secure top dog......Nope.
Does the American population have the stones to back a military presence everywhere they need one? To secure top dog......Nope.
Our military is already better-funded than most of the rest of the planet combined, and we already have hundreds and hundreds of bases in "a lot" of countries. I'm not sure the American population and economy have the $$$ to expand much more.
Our military is already better-funded than most of the rest of the planet combined, and we already have hundreds and hundreds of bases in "a lot" of countries. I'm not sure the American population and economy have the $$$ to expand much more.
But we have to spend more. There are still countries out there that don't understand that we get to tell them what they should be doing...
[/snark]
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 6:04am
Our military is already better-funded than most of the rest of the planet combined, and we already have hundreds and hundreds of bases in "a lot" of countries. I'm not sure the American population and economy have the $$$ to expand much more.
American "exceptionalism". Our military is the largest entitlement program in the budget. With it we spread our brand of democracy and freedom throughout the world. We are special with a special destiny and a mission to spread our brand of government to the rest of the world even if we have to kill people to make them free. To me it all started out rather benignly when we were a rather new independent nation but as we have grown more reliant on global markets and energy resources from other nations, we are not exceptional in the same sense. That exceptionaism is now being called into question as a dangerous condition which exists when a people believe themselves to be specially blessed by the Almighty to be the worlds leader, police, banker".........when It appears to have no moral or financial discipline. It goes from exceptionaism to hypocracy.
Most of what Putin said or did in the US was for home consumption, to boost his image in Russia. Take it all with a serious grain of salt.
Most of what Putin said or did in the US was for home consumption, to boost his image in Russia. Take it all with a serious grain of salt.
That is an important point. The Russian economy is in tatters, between low energy prices and world class institutional corruption. Ethnic minorities are becoming more restive by the day. Life expectancy and fertility are in decline.
What's a dictator to do? Distract. Slice off bits of his neighbors where he can get away with it. Posture as the champion of Russian-speaking people lucky enough to be living outside his borders. Make some provocative overflights in the Baltic to show them how tough you are and how weak they are. Make some low risk military deployments to Syria to show the folks back home what a major player you are. Pound your chest at the U.N.
It really doesn't matter what the pusillanimous politicians of the West say about you if you judge them too weak-willed to act. Your primary concern is to look tough enough to keep the next thug in line from deciding the time is right to stab you in the back.
FWIW, I truly believe that what the US is doing at present in foreign interventions is the correct approach. Maybe it is the Canadian in me but at some point the disturbed countries in the world have to grow up and be allowed to grow up and deal with their turbulent mindset. Until the mindset of the population and their regimes choose to support life rather than destroy, allow diversity of viewpoint and respect their citizens, the enemy will always be the policeman who becomes the target. When the US stepped back somewhat, countries finally are seeing the consequences of their thinking and choices. With that you get refugees and migrants trying to leave. If they bring the same mindset with them, however, it takes great leadership to manage their concepts, aspirations and expectations. Is the rest of the world up to the challenge? Yes, we are but we will flounder around trying different approaches for different situations. I have enormous faith in humanity but courageous action isn't easy.
Stepping off my speaker's box now :D
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 2:33pm
Most of what Putin said or did in the US was for home consumption, to boost his image in Russia. Take it all with a serious grain of salt.
According to a recent Washington Post article, Putin enjoys a skyrocketing 89% approval rating. Why would he need to stage speeches targeted at his own population? Most Russians would just assume the United States go to hell.
According to a recent Washington Post article, Putin enjoys a skyrocketing 89% approval rating. Why would he need to stage speeches targeted at his own population? Most Russians would just assume the United States go to hell.
Let's say you live in a dictatorship. And let's say a stranger asks for your opinion of the dictator...
Ultralight
9-30-15, 2:41pm
Let's say you live in a dictatorship. And let's say a stranger asks for your opinion of the dictator...
"Vladdy Putin is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 3:01pm
That is an important point. The Russian economy is in tatters, between low energy prices and world class institutional corruption. Ethnic minorities are becoming more restive by the day. Life expectancy and fertility are in decline.
What's a dictator to do? Distract. Slice off bits of his neighbors where he can get away with it. Posture as the champion of Russian-speaking people lucky enough to be living outside his borders. Make some provocative overflights in the Baltic to show them how tough you are and how weak they are. Make some low risk military deployments to Syria to show the folks back home what a major player you are. Pound your chest at the U.N.
It really doesn't matter what the pusillanimous politicians of the West say about you if you judge them too weak-willed to act. Your primary concern is to look tough enough to keep the next thug in line from deciding the time is right to stab you in the back.
The Russian economy is not in tatters. Russian gas and nuclear fuel keep the EU alive. Economic and financial sanctions against Russia can not and will not work. This isn't some midget country. It has 1/6 of the earths dry land and all the resources that go with it. It has been invaded multiple times and survived and the population is self sufficient. They don't rely on government to do for them what they can do themselves. The foolish attack on the ruble has done nothing to cripple the Russian economy. Russia has little national debt. Budget deficit? Nada. Foreign currency reserves and gold? You bet.
Ukraine was for a very long time part of Russia. They just took part of it back and nobody did anything.
So why is the US all up in Russia's face? To protect interests in Europe. What if Europe says, you know, Russia has pretty much everything we need to keep our standard of living and they are right here next to us. Maybe we should just switch sides. Or maybe Russia says to the EU....."It would be in your best interest to do this or that...." Can the U.S. really afford to look weak? No but there ain't a whole lot you can do when you are exponentially in debt up to your ears.
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 3:06pm
Let's say you live in a dictatorship. And let's say a stranger asks for your opinion of the dictator...
Putins approval rating has climbed from 61 % to 89%......... How does one explain the upward trend?
And dont say, "I used to think Vladdy Putin is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.....but now I think I love him!"
Ultralight
9-30-15, 3:08pm
And dont say, "I used to think Vladdy Putin is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.....but now I think I love him!"
LOL to this! :)
ApatheticNoMore
9-30-15, 3:22pm
Let's say you live in a dictatorship. And let's say a stranger asks for your opinion of the dictator...
it depends on whether I think I would be punished for my opinions. I mean isn't it possible it might be a dictatorship that doesn't give a flying flip what the citizens on the street think positive or negative (yea well, what are you going to do about it? what power have you got?). Congress often polls barely double digit approval rates, so we are allowed to express that, and yet we aren't able to get a congress that has even mediocre approval ratings.
The Russian economy is not in tatters. Russian gas and nuclear fuel keep the EU alive. Economic and financial sanctions against Russia can not and will not work. This isn't some midget country. It has 1/6 of the earths dry land and all the resources that go with it. It has been invaded multiple times and survived and the population is self sufficient. They don't rely on government to do for them what they can do themselves. The foolish attack on the ruble has done nothing to cripple the Russian economy. Russia has little national debt. Budget deficit? Nada. Foreign currency reserves and gold? You bet.
Ukraine was for a very long time part of Russia. They just took part of it back and nobody did anything.
So why is the US all up in Russia's face? To protect interests in Europe. What if Europe says, you know, Russia has pretty much everything we need to keep our standard of living and they are right here next to us. Maybe we should just switch sides. Or maybe Russia says to the EU....."It would be in your best interest to do this or that...." Can the U.S. really afford to look weak? No but there ain't a whole lot you can do when you are exponentially in debt up to your ears.
Russia has many natural advantages and a large population, yet can only manage a GDP smaller than Brazil's. They have little debt because few lenders have taken any interest in them since they defaulted in 1998. They maintain significant foreign currency reserves because nobody wants to trade in rubles. They operate essentially as a Third World extractive economy. A quarter of Russian men die before the age of 55, largely due to alcoholism.
It is true that the Russian population in inured to deprivation. Centuries of tyranny and economic idiocy will have that effect. I suppose you could call that a sort of strength. It's hard to imagine a Europe so desperate that they would align themselves with Putin's Russia.
Ultralight
9-30-15, 3:42pm
A quarter of Russian men die before the age of 55, largely due to alcoholism.
This is mind boggling.
it depends on whether I think I would be punished for my opinions. I mean isn't it possible it might be a dictatorship that doesn't give a flying flip what the citizens on the street think positive or negative (yea well, what are you going to do about it? what power have you got?). Congress often polls barely double digit approval rates, so we are allowed to express that, and yet we aren't able to get a congress that has even mediocre approval ratings.
You can see a list of Russian journalists murdered here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
I've often thought it strange that we say we despise Congress in general but often like our own Congressperson in particular.
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 4:13pm
LDAHL
given your understanding of the hardships which the Russian population has endured and would be prepared to endure.....why is it hard for you to believe that a refusal to continue supplying gas to the EU would not be a crisis for Europe and a situation which the United States could not offer an intervention or solution? As soon as Russia solidifies its takeover of all of Ukraine.....then they can isolate gas delivery with additional infrastructure and have the means to cut off Europe without affecting eastern Ukraine. The U.S. would have to require its population to endure hardship which it may not be willing to do as matter of factly as the cynical Russians. The Russia Reagan humiliated is not the Russia of today.
LDAHL
given your understanding of the hardships which the Russian population has endured and would be prepared to endure.....why is it hard for you to believe that a refusal to continue supplying gas to the EU would not be a crisis for Europe and a situation which the United States could not offer an intervention or solution? As soon as Russia solidifies its takeover of all of Ukraine.....then they can isolate gas delivery with additional infrastructure and have the means to cut off Europe without affecting eastern Ukraine. The U.S. would have to require its population to endure hardship which it may not be willing to do as matter of factly as the cynical Russians. The Russia Reagan humiliated is not the Russia of today.
I don't think it wouldn't be painful for Europe, who might have to turn to more expensive alternate sources. I just think it comes close to being suicidal for any Russian regime to shut down virtually its only source of revenue for any length of time. Even if the peasants were content to suffer in silence, the Russian elites would certainly reconsider Mr. Putin's suitability for leadership.
Williamsmith
9-30-15, 6:10pm
Putin has just told Obama, "Lead, Follow or get out of the way!"
Putin has just told Obama, "Lead, Follow or get out of the way!"
That would only be relevant if they were going in the same direction, and not even the US State Department is gullible enough to believe that.
Putin is targeting the non-ISIS opposition to Assad.
Williamsmith
10-1-15, 3:23pm
That would only be relevant if they were going in the same direction, and not even the US State Department is gullible enough to believe that.
Putin is targeting the non-ISIS opposition to Assad.
You really do eat up everything you are fed on mainstream tv.......and neocon radio.
Amazing how the State Department can tell us dogmatically that The Russians are attacking our opposition rebels and not ISIS immediately after the bombs impact the ground but when Coalition forces strike something it takes at least a week to analyze and comment.
Putin and Obama are headed in the same direction it's just that Putin is getting his own hands dirty and not farming it out to mercenaries who as soon as they are equipped, go over to the other side and turn over their weapons.
And all this would be unnecessary if our CIA hadn't created ISIS in the first place to oust Assad. And The US knows full well that ISIS is a threat to Russian interests at their border. If this crap were going on in Mexico do you think there would be any airstrikes from the U.S. on ISIS there? Oh boy howdy!
Well all this has backfired hasn't it? And how much is all this meddling in Syria costing you and me the taxpayer? We will find out later when the debt gets called in.
Did you watch Kerry when he had the press conference with the ambassador from Russia? Isn't it funny how all of a sudden we agree on certain promising points on the matter now? What Kerry didn't say was That Russia is going to do what it wants so you might as well tell Obama to go pound salt. Obama is so brave and heroic when he sends unmanned drones to assassinate enemies of the state. So brave. But how long free?
Please when you are watching Fox News....try to keep in mind that they are propaganda mouthpieces especially when it involves Russian/American relations. Trump has it right. Let Putin get rid of ISIS. Problem is that's like letting the bully on the beach smash your sandcastle. It ain't cool.
You really do eat up everything you are fed on mainstream tv.......and neocon radio.
Amazing how the State Department can tell us dogmatically that The Russians are attacking our opposition rebels and not ISIS immediately after the bombs impact the ground but when Coalition forces strike something it takes at least a week to analyze and comment.
Putin and Obama are headed in the same direction it's just that Putin is getting his own hands dirty and not farming it out to mercenaries who as soon as they are equipped, go over to the other side and turn over their weapons.
And all this would be unnecessary if our CIA hadn't created ISIS in the first place to oust Assad. And The US knows full well that ISIS is a threat to Russian interests at their border. If this crap were going on in Mexico do you think there would be any airstrikes from the U.S. on ISIS there? Oh boy howdy!
Well all this has backfired hasn't it? And how much is all this meddling in Syria costing you and me the taxpayer? We will find out later when the debt gets called in.
Did you watch Kerry when he had the press conference with the ambassador from Russia? Isn't it funny how all of a sudden we agree on certain promising points on the matter now? What Kerry didn't say was That Russia is going to do what it wants so you might as well tell Obama to go pound salt. Obama is so brave and heroic when he sends unmanned drones to assassinate enemies of the state. So brave. But how long free?
Please when you are watching Fox News....try to keep in mind that they are propaganda mouthpieces especially when it involves Russian/American relations. Trump has it right. Let Putin get rid of ISIS. Problem is that's like letting the bully on the beach smash your sandcastle. It ain't cool.
It's not just Fox News' mystical power to seduce and beguile. It's facts on the ground. Putin is targeting the non-ISIS opposition to Assad.
Williamsmith
10-1-15, 5:35pm
It's not just Fox News' mystical power to seduce and beguile. It's facts on the ground. Putin is targeting the non-ISIS opposition to Assad.
Perhaps we are both right. Anyone who opposes Assad gets bombed. Both ISIS and non ISIS. Obama has declared that Assad must go. Putin says he must stay. Putin has put his assets on the ground. Obama has not. The U.S. is used to fighting a war where they have the technological superiority. Air support and cruise missile launches. Obama has two miserable options. Confront Putin or suck it up and accept that he has been outfoxed. Meanwhile Saudia Arabia is on the other hotline, Mr. President.
Perhaps we are both right. Anyone who opposes Assad gets bombed. Both ISIS and non ISIS. Obama has declared that Assad must go. Putin says he must stay. Putin has put his assets on the ground. Obama has not. The U.S. is used to fighting a war where they have the technological superiority. Air support and cruise missile launches. Obama has two miserable options. Confront Putin or suck it up and accept that he has been outfoxed. Meanwhile Saudia Arabia is on the other hotline, Mr. President.
I certainly don't disagree that the US strategy in Syria has been a disaster. From red lines that appeared and disappeared with the shifting sands, to the sputtering disapproval over Russia's relatively small deployment (he is simply incapable of matching the sortie rate the Arab and Western allies are generating), the civilized world seems to have been bested on the rhetorical front.
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