Bicycle tires, post-apocalypse

[Gardenarian]

Okay, here's a crazy question. I'm writing a post-apocalyptic novel and the characters ride bicycles. I figure for a while they can scavenge parts or make do - say, turning old car tires into bicycle tire. Put there comes a point when they have to start doing things from scratch.

Anyone have any ideas about how you would keep a bicycle going under such conditions? I think the metal parts will last a good long while, and they have plenty of bikes to cannibalize, but the tires/tubes are going to die and/or degrade.

I have ordered "The knowledge : how to rebuild our world from scratch" by Lewis Dartnell from the library - I hope it gives me some insight into more of these kind of issues.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Ultralight]

I wish I had some insights for you.

But as someone who grew up on all sorts of post-apocalyptic narratives, studied them in graduate school, and still loves the genre let me say I am intrigued by your novel. Can you share anything more about it?

[bae]

Dry rot of the tubes and tires will be quite problematic. No ideas on how to make new tires/tubes from scratch, I suspect it requires some significant industrial infrastructure.

Even in the 3rd-world today, we see real tires/tubes in use.

Perhaps some sort of expedient tire material, perhaps a hard-rubber or something, not pneumatic?

[Ultralight]

Dry rot of the tubes and tires will be quite problematic. No ideas on how to make new tires/tubes from scratch, I suspect it requires some significant industrial infrastructure.

Even in the 3rd-world today, we see real tires/tubes in use.

Perhaps some sort of expedient tire material, perhaps a hard-rubber or something, not pneumatic?

In my bike repair class the instructor/mechanic mentioned something about tires that are nearly impervious to damage. The innertubes are made of something really tough.

[ToomuchStuff]

Several bits of info could be helpful. How close were they to the blast? (the heat may melt tires, and someone might try to stuff broken rubber bits into a tire as a sort of filler)
What other things are close and handy? Foam insulation might be used inside the tire. This could be either the expanding foam like they fill tires with now or some other kind of foam with heat/fire to stick it to stuff.
In other nuclear things (thinking it was a Mad Max movie), they just rode on the rims.
There are industrial tires (thicker) as well as solid tires still. (commercial uses) The prior are what is recommended for those Chinese motors to make a bicycle into something like a Whizzer. A friend bought a motor and used some old bikes to do this for him and his wife (70+ and wanted to know if he decided he pedaled too far, could get back home). I'd like to find an old bike and make a fake, antique motorcycle.

Honestly, speaking of the rubber, drying out or being exposed to heat, remember the bicycle pumps, tend to have rubber in them as well (might loose your air source first).

[flowerseverywhere]

Some kind of plant that could be pounded into fiberous strands then tightly woven. Almost like a burlap. When cut into strips it could be would around the rim. Maybe a coating of some type of sap that could be continuously reapplied to hold up to the wear.

Or or the survivors could be in the south where there are alligators. They kill them for meat and use the tough hide for shoes and bicycle tires. Alternatively some type of animal part that is tough.

Maybe be find some books about Curtis or the Wrights when they owned bicycle shops. They made all their parts from scratch in the early 1900's before the Internet! (Imagine). Maybe your survivors could have horses survive with them and that could be their transportation.

[JaneV2.0]

Weren't bike wheels originally made of wood?

[Float On]

http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car-free/870166-will-there-bicycles-after-apocalypse.html

http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/351452-wooden-tires-commuting.html (wood tires)


Aren't some of the smaller bike tires solid rubber (no air)...that would at least last a little longer.
I guess I'd grab cans of that no-flat stuff or cans of spray insulation foam to fill a tire that's gone flat.
I could resort to wrapping cloth tightly and maybe use fishing string wrapped around it to create small ropes of cloth to replace the rubber (wouldn't last too long though...fiber may already be breaking down before all the spare tires.

[Ultralight]

Come the apocalypse I'll be riding a mule.

[LDAHL]

You've hit on where post-apocalyptic fiction breaks down for me. There always seem to be unspecified sources of ammunition, shoes and gasoline. Black powder in makeshift muskets maybe, but a lot of PAF includes automatic weapons. People seem to scavenge resources from the old civilization way beyond the point you'd expect oxidation and putrefaction to have run it's course. There don't seem to be enough sick people or rotten teeth. People seem way too clean and too literate. In some climes, you'd need to spend a good quarter of your time chopping wood, which would probably not do much to advance the plot.

The roads and bridges often seem to be in much better shape than you'd expect un-maintained pavement to look after a few years.

I realize most of this stuff is produced for adolescents, but even so the standard of verisimilitude seems pretty low.

[dinah]

Weren't bike wheels originally made of wood?

this is my thought. the ride wouldn't be as smooth...but it would work.

[Ultralight]

You've hit on where post-apocalyptic fiction breaks down for me. There always seem to be unspecified sources of ammunition, shoes and gasoline. Black powder in makeshift muskets maybe, but a lot of PAF includes automatic weapons. People seem to scavenge resources from the old civilization way beyond the point you'd expect oxidation and putrefaction to have run it's course. There don't seem to be enough sick people or rotten teeth. People seem way too clean and too literate. In some climes, you'd need to spend a good quarter of your time chopping wood, which would probably not do much to advance the plot.

The roads and bridges often seem to be in much better shape than you'd expect un-maintained pavement to look after a few years.

I realize most of this stuff is produced for adolescents, but even so the standard of verisimilitude seems pretty low.

Might be worth reading the World Made By Hand series. James Howard Kunstler is the author. :)

[bae]

You've hit on where post-apocalyptic fiction breaks down for me.

This sort of fiction rarely dwells on what happens when you no longer have access to antibiotics, and simple minor cuts and scratches can kill you in a horribly painful manner.

[Ultralight]

This sort of fiction rarely dwells on what happens when you no longer have access to antibiotics, and simple minor cuts and scratches can kill you in a horribly painful manner.

Yeah, I watch The Walking Dead and think: All that blood and guts... people'd have so many infections on the daily!

[The Storyteller]

These should last a good long time...

http://www.airlesstiresnow.com/Airless-Bicycle-Tires_c_123.html

And then there is wood, like wagon and buggy wheels before we had rubber.

[LDAHL]

this is my thought. the ride wouldn't be as smooth...but it would work.

Didn't they use to call some of the early bikes "boneshakers"?

[Gardenarian]

Thanks all!

I have read "World made by Hand" and also the "Dies the Fire" series (by S.M. Stirling.)
As I recall, in Kunstler's (excuse me, but VERY sexist) novels, people mainly used horses and boats for transport, though I'll probably steal some ideas from him.
In "Dies the Fire," Stirling got around the problem by having a whole lot of very handy people being the survivors ("Oh, I just happen to be a bowyer and a blacksmith! And you're an herbalist/doctor/veterinarian? - how convenient!) They did use bikes but I don't think he addressed the tire issue.

I have read about wooden tires being used, but as the roads fall apart I think this would become more and more difficult. (Though the people in the story do work to maintain major routes.) Boneshakers sound about right! I have considered some sort of sap/leather/wood combination but don't know if it would be feasible. I might have to take out the bikes...though my main character (as of now) works repairing and rebuilding bicycles. I could give her a different trade.

My story is not aimed at a particular audience, but I think the finished book will fall into the YA category. Believing as I do in the innate goodness of the great majority of people, it describes more of a utopian than a dystopian future. Most of the events in the novel take place about 50 years after the End Times, in what is something like a transition town/permaculture society. There are still books and some clothes, but anything that would be likely to spoil, break down, or rot has done so (medicines, canned goods, solar panels...bicycle tires....)

There is no single cataclysmic event that brings about the apocalypse; there is increased flooding and decreased snowpack (drought), violent storms and fires that overwhelm the ability of the government to maintain the infrastructure, an economic collapse brought about by various factors, rampant viruses and famine, and a complete breakdown of the electrical grid, all of which happen over the course of about 20 years.

Most of the people I know do not have horses, antique weapons collections, water or wind mills, wells with hand pumps, nor the kinds of skills needed to make, maintain, or do things by hand. From what I see, most people (including me) would cling to the past as long as possible rather than accept that industrial civilization is over - thus leaving the next generation in the lurch.

The survival literature I've read for research mainly focuses on the short term (food storage and the like) or wilderness-type survival.

I'd like to avoid the inconsistencies I read in so many futuristic novels.

[dinah]

It sounds very interesting!

[LDAHL]

Thanks all!

There are still books and some clothes, but anything that would be likely to spoil, break down, or rot has done so (medicines, canned goods, solar panels...bicycle tires....)


That's interesting. In such a world, as in the pre-modern world, old things might assume new importance. Access to salt, for instance, was important to preserve food, and for processes such as tanning leather. Governments in the past assumed monopoly powers over saltworks as an important source of revenue. In many circumstances, especially long-range travel, alcoholic beverages were a good deal safer to drink than stored water. India Pale Ale came about for long sea voyages. You needed pine tar to keep stuff from rapidly rotting in wet climates.

[Ultralight]

That's interesting. In such a world, as in the pre-modern world, old things might assume new importance. Access to salt, for instance, was important to preserve food, and for processes such as tanning leather. Governments in the past assumed monopoly powers over saltworks as an important source of revenue. In many circumstances, especially long-range travel, alcoholic beverages were a good deal safer to drink than stored water. India Pale Ale came about for long sea voyages. You needed pine tar to keep stuff from rapidly rotting in wet climates.

A glimpse into the past; a glimpse into the future?

[merince]

Rubber by itself is fairly easy, pretty much sap. The vulcanization is a bit more complicated, I think it requires sulfur or some such. Solid tires would be probably doable but would require trade with warmish climates depending on your setting. Here is the Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rubber

By the way, check out the alternative sources - there is actually a dandelion that is an alternative to the rubber tree. That is way cool!

Running water/water supply is usually one of the main issues for me.

[Gardenarian]

Thanks merince! I need to find something that is indigenous to the Pacific Northwest. I'll keep searching, and try to find out about the dandelions you're talking about.