Is wanting more a human instinct?

[pinkytoe]

I am reading a book called How to Want What you Have and the author posits that "wanting more" is a human instinct that can be tamed with conscious effort. More money, more status, more stuff, more sex - the list goes on. Seems like when I observe the world around me (at least where we have the basics to start with) that wanting more is definitely a primary motivator in this culture. I recall observing toddlers when I had one - how they too would try to acquire and covet each other's toys. I wonder if there is something different about the brain of a simple lifer in that they are satisfied with less. Are we just so different?:)

[Ultralight]

pinkytoe:

I ask myself that too! I think one must be self-reflective to be an SLer.

[Kestra]

Self reflective is a good word for it. We are all stepping outside of that instinctive wanting, and recognizing it, and then choosing to act or not act on it. Same as any emotional or gut response; you can choose to override it if you are cognizant of it.

[Ultralight]

Self reflective is a good word for it. We are all stepping outside of that instinctive wanting, and recognizing it, and then choosing to act or not act on it. Same as any emotional or gut response; you can choose to override it if you are cognizant of it.

It takes time and grit to be cognizant of it. I wonder if SLers have more grit and/or more time?

[Alan]

Is wanting more always bad? Is it okay to want more quality time with family or friends, more alone time, more vacation, more adventure, more knowledge?
If those wants, just to name a few, are included in the question then my answer is 'Yes', wanting more is a human instinct.

[pinkytoe]

Is wanting more always bad?
Nope but that's what makes it complicated in my mind.

[Ultralight]

So I am thinking and thinking on this topic.

I see regular ol' consumers just buying and buying and stowing stuff away and working their tails off in jobs they hate and/or are disengaged from.

It is like someone gave them a script for their life. The just memorize the script, recite the lines exactly, and do just what the director says.

But then there are some Marlon Brando-types, such as SLers and minimalists, who don't take direction well. We want to change the lines in the script. Heck, we want to rewrite the script so it has a whole new plot.

This is tough. It takes time and grit. But we chip away at it.

[Ultralight]

Is wanting more always bad? Is it okay to want more quality time with family or friends, more alone time, more vacation, more adventure, more knowledge?
If those wants, just to name a few, are included in the question then my answer is 'Yes', wanting more is a human instinct.

Alan just flipped the whole thing on its head!

More time?! Sign me up! More vacation? Heck yeah!

[oldhat]

I haven't read the book, but I assume that the author is talking chiefly about wanting more money, status, sex, etc., not more love, vacation time etc. The desire to always want more of the former is at least partly the result of instincts embedded in our lizard brains. The modern desire to accumulate as much wealth and status as possible is the contemporary equivalent of wanting more food, better weapons and a warmer cave, the better to stave off disaster when the going got tough.

Of course, in most major religious and philosophical traditions since the Axial Age (the age of Socrates, the Buddha, and the Old Testament prophets) overcoming these primitive desires is the mark of an enlightened mind.

[pinkytoe]

But what if you were grateful for the one vacation break you get or the one love you have rather than wanting more of either?

[creaker]

"Wanting more" isn't bad - however not being able to see "enough" can be.

[SteveinMN]

I believe that us SLers have evaluated what we do instinctively and have decided that overdoing it (in the sense of always wanting more) does not serve us well. Our values are different. I don't think any of us would turn down a really nice car or such -- if having it was completely without friction. But it's not -- even if the car were given to us, there's still the cost of maintaining it or housing it. There's the impact it has on the environment or its attractiveness to other people who might like a really nice car. We do not put enough value on the car to make it worth the money or work time or carbon footprint it takes. So we resist the purchase.

I think wanting more is an instinct. But we don't always have to act on our instincts. Some people just follow that concept at different levels.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Something I have never understood is that so many wealthy people want more and more and more money and status and possessions - even when they have crossed that magical line that they really don't have to worry about money anymore - you know, those people that are envied by many because they realistically would never have to work again a day in their lives due to their net worth. The people how don't realistically have to worry about health care as they have enough money to not have to worry about unexpected bills. Why do such people often keep fighting and playing the game for more and more and more? I'll never get this, I really can't see myself ever understanding this.

And now I'm going to call myself out as a hypocrite after posting the above. Even I am not immune to this - even after having had a stretch of unbelievable good fortune if being able to visit a few European countries and Morocco, I find myself wanting very much to go back to Morocco and visit places such as Rabat that I did not see. Why can't I be satisfied with just that one visit for some time? So I am not above this not satisfied with what I've got/have experienced either....what's up with this? Rob

[catherine]

I read Scott Nearing's The Making of a Radical, and I was surprised to read that he had to suppress his desire for "more." I just figured he had the "me-wants" licked… he was such a dedicated simple liver. So when I read that, I realized that everything requires discipline--including reining in all desires that aren't going to serve you well, whether the desires are too much food, alcohol, sex, or just plain "stuff." Simple livers have realized the truth to the "crossover point" at which more stuff/money does not give any more fulfillment, where other people are elsewhere on that journey.

Anthropologically it probably has to do with survival in some way. It's easy to believe that more food, more status, more power, more comforts equals more security/chance for survival, even though that isn't always true.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I am reading a book called How to Want What you Have and the author posits that "wanting more" is a human instinct that can be tamed with conscious effort. More money, more status, more stuff, more sex - the list goes on.

garbage, we live in a culture awash in advertising and stuff is blamed on instinct of all things? No way, ban all advertising and then let's talk. And advertising is clever, it targets, etc.. I mean fine sex is an instinct but people don't actually want infinite amounts of sex or food etc.. there's a point of satiation (may be some desire for multiple sex partners but anyway that conversation is getting far afield from the desire to consume products which is produced by advertising, it is NOT an instinct). So no I don't even buy the instinct hypothesis enough to talk about "overcoming instinct", not for buying stuff, "overcoming cultural conditioning" I could accept I guess.

[ApatheticNoMore]

More time?! Sign me up! More vacation? Heck yeah!

I'd rather be a European or a citizen of anywhere but U.S.A. workaholic crazyville, but unfortunately ...


But what if you were grateful for the one vacation break you get

yea but I've usually reached burnout long before then, the usual 2 weeks a year isn't much, actually I'm so burned out I take days off here and there usually and don't even save it up ... But it's more that I hate work so any time spent away from it is good, yes I try to tolerate work, but it doesn't fix the fundamental suckiness of it.

[Ultralight]

I mean fine sex is an instinct but people don't actually want infinite amounts of sex... there's a point of satiation (may be some desire for multiple sex partners but anyway that conversation is getting far afield from the desire to consume products which is produced by advertising, it is NOT an instinct).

I dunno... graduate school was a busy time for me! haha

[ApatheticNoMore]

Something I have never understood is that so many wealthy people want more and more and more money and status and possessions - even when they have crossed that magical line that they really don't have to worry about money anymore

at a certain point money isn't about what it's about at lower levels of money, survival, or ease or comfort, or luxury and shiny stuff, or even freedom (from the grind etc.). It's about power. And that's what they want.

[jp1]

Something I have never understood is that so many wealthy people want more and more and more money and status and possessions - even when they have crossed that magical line that they really don't have to worry about money anymore - you know, those people that are envied by many because they realistically would never have to work again a day in their lives due to their net worth. The people how don't realistically have to worry about health care as they have enough money to not have to worry about unexpected bills. Why do such people often keep fighting and playing the game for more and more and more? I'll never get this, I really can't see myself ever understanding this.



I think the issue is a couple of things. First, that for everyone the magical line is at a different point. Second, that some people just like the game. I used to work for a guy who had gotten to a point where he sold his company for roughly $60M. Even with an expensive lifestyle he had far more than anyone needs to live for the rest of their lives and their children's lives too. He basically took a year off and relaxed. But after that he got right back into his old business (magazine publishing). People closer to him than me said that he was bored, bored, bored during that year. He didn't have any desire to go do rock climbing or whatever. He just wanted to get back to doing what he loved, the publishing business. Making more money was pretty much an incidental benefit to him at that point.

Personally I'm not like that. If I had "enough" I'd quit and never look back. I used to play lotto twice a week. I told my boss at the time, who I had a friendly relationship with, that if I ever checked my ticket (I did so at lunch the day after buying it) and I was a winner I'd throw my phone in the trash and just go home and he'd never hear from me again. He thought I was joking but frankly I was serious. I would absolutely NOT be one of those people who keeps working after winning lotto.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't think most people would do their boring mind numbing jobs if they didn't need the money. In fact if your coworkers are honest they'll say they hate work too. Mine do. We complain about work daily, about how we hate being there and and can't wait for the day to end and for friday and the weekend. Which is one relief of earning less money and prestige - you don't have to pretend you like the work (well maybe 5% of the time I do like the work - when I can use a whole brain cell).

[catherine]

Something I have never understood is that so many wealthy people want more and more and more money and status and possessions - even when they have crossed that magical line that they really don't have to worry about money anymore - you know, those people that are envied by many because they realistically would never have to work again a day in their lives due to their net worth. The people how don't realistically have to worry about health care as they have enough money to not have to worry about unexpected bills. Why do such people often keep fighting and playing the game for more and more and more? I'll never get this, I really can't see myself ever understanding this.



It's definitely not just about the money, as jp1 alluded to.

a) work gives meaning to people's lives
b) people enjoy their jobs more than their leisure pursuits (There are lots of people like ANM who hate their jobs, but there are others who enjoy getting up in the morning and going to their work every day--mostly the self-employed and owners of businesses)
c) upward mobility is a vicious circle.. once you have graduated from the "farm team" socially, then you have a whole other set of expectations and desires. So you wind up like my wealthy friend's friends.. who live in a whole enclave of rich people and you might not be happy with your house that overlooks the sunrise--you want a second house on the opposite side of the island that overlooks the sunset (this is not a hypothetical, BTW. My friend told me some of her friends have two houses within a couple of miles of each other for that reason).
d) Divorce is expensive
e) You self-identify with your career and find it hard to let it go
f) There is just an endless stream of consumer goods to keep up with--new cars every year, new fashions every season, new places to travel to, million dollar sweet sixteen parties to host.

Personally, if I were in that position and had made a lot of money building a business, I could see myself doing it for a long time, not for the money, not for power, but because I would probably find it fun. Owning a business is different than working for someone.

Those are a few reasons people keep working when they have enough money not to.

[Williamsmith]

In wealth you find the danger of a self centered life represented by a concentration on expansion. Expansion is not simply an accumulation of tangible things, but also a constant replacement of so called lesser quality things with higher quality or scarcer items.

The one parameter that is constant and no different between wealthy poor or otherwise is time. If your time is filled with a struggle to survive then of course your needs are always in front of you. But if your needs are met, and all you have to fill your time is the quest for comforts and luxuries, then that's what you strive for merely out of a need to fill time.

Unless, you approach life with an open attitude, wanting to share your wealth. Then you can avoid the spinning vortex of self centered ness which eventually becomes greed and greed leads to abuses of other people's resources.

Average people do this every day in small interactions. The wealthy do it and many are affected.

[Ultralight]

In wealth you find the danger of a self centered life represented by a concentration on expansion. Expansion is not simply an accumulation of tangible things, but also a constant replacement of so called lesser quality things with higher quality or scarcer items.

The one parameter that is constant and no different between wealthy poor or otherwise is time. If your time is filled with a struggle to survive then of course your needs are always in front of you. But if your needs are met, and all you have to fill your time is the quest for comforts and luxuries, then that's what you strive for merely out of a need to fill time.

Unless, you approach life with an open attitude, wanting to share your wealth. Then you can avoid the spinning vortex of self centered ness which eventually becomes greed and greed leads to abuses of other people's resources.

Average people do this every day in small interactions. The wealthy do it and many are affected.

There are some incredible insights here.

My distaste for greed is a big part of my reason for simple living and minimalism.

[ToomuchStuff]

Wanting and needing can be synonymous. It is the MORE and CONSCIOUS EFFORT parts, that are problematic. As ANM said marketing does play a part (do you want something you know doesn't exist?).
For example, you want food, and you may need/want more (not getting enough), but you can make the conscious effort to go out and find sustenance. When your full, you might stay close to the food, to fulfill future wants.
Alan asked about quality time, define quality. So many parents are happy when the summer is over and the kids are going back to school, so those months, must not have been quality, just time.
Now, as I said, CAN, doesn't mean is (synonymous) Humans have a biologic need, as all life does to procreate/continue. I have a Want to have sex, but other then the biology that is, there is no actual need. Where as eating/breathing, there is both a biologic (history of), as well as a current want/need. So even want has various meanings.