Paris

[Gardenarian]

I don't know what to say. Horrible, horrible.

[IshbelRobertson]

Sadly, I fear this will only get worse.

[CathyA]

Maybe this should be in the Politics section?
I know many of you are going to disagree with me. We've brought this on ourselves. Look at the Islamic problem France already has. Accepting everyone all the time in the name of Fairness, or Humaneness is leading to the downfall of all the cultures that have a beautiful and rich history.
Letting anyone in and giving everyone equal rights is like letting cancers and viruses into our bodies and saying "It's okay.......everyone is the same and can do what they want." It leads to death........of people and cultures.
The meek won't inherit the earth.......because they'll be dead.......killed by the aggressive ones.

It seems to me the only way around this (if we can even get around it) is to make some laws that are much less humane. I know it's in direct violation to "democracy", but we have to stop letting certain people into countries.
Think back to the Japanese situation after Pearl Harbor. Yes, it seemed extremely unfair. But compared to today, we have much more reason to deny entry and citizenship to certain groups. I think we have to take our gloves off. We are ultra naive if we
think we can handle this while continuing with our present beliefs. And unfortunately, innocents will be involved.........but that's the price that will have to be paid.

The world is quite a different place now. We can no longer have a Pollyanna approach to everything. It may even be too late.

As I have said before.......it is sooooo easy for us to sit in our comfortable homes/neighborhoods/countries and spout off about how we can handle these problems kindly. What if your child was flying in a plane brought down by terrorists? What if your brother and his wife were sitting in a restaurant having a nice time and were blown to bits? I could go on and on.

Our openness has created these problems and I hope we can rise to the occasion of what is needed. I'm not just talking about military action, but rather not allowing certain groups to enter one's country........and even sending some of them out of the countries. It may be too late.

It was a beautiful dream..........but it's not working anymore and will destroy the good people.
Ii think we have to really face our options, no matter how uncomfortable they feel to us.

[Float On]

I can barely bring myself to read the headlines...this time around. So much loss.

[Williamsmith]

I have been looking at Rand Paul's immigration policy and agreeing with much of it. We have to value immigrants who are seeking a better life in our country but we do not have to swing wide the gate and let the masses flood over our borders without conducting any background investigation and without assimilating them to the basic rules of our society.....like separation of church and state. This is where the future of our country is so fragile. Do we turn isolationist and age into oblivion or accept certain immigrants with plans to not only benefit from citizenship but contribute to our improvement. We must have order and rule of law first and then assimilate.

[rodeosweetheart]

I have been looking at Rand Paul's immigration policy and agreeing with much of it. We have to value immigrants who are seeking a better life in our country but we do not have to swing wide the gate and let the masses flood over our borders without conducting any background investigation and without assimilating them to the basic rules of our society.....like separation of church and state. This is where the future of our country is so fragile. Do we turn isolationist and age into oblivion or accept certain immigrants with plans to not only benefit from citizenship but contribute to our improvement. We must have order and rule of law first and then assimilate.

+1
and in doing so, we follow the successful example of the Scandinavian nations

[JaneV2.0]

I have been looking at Rand Paul's immigration policy and agreeing with much of it. We have to value immigrants who are seeking a better life in our country but we do not have to swing wide the gate and let the masses flood over our borders without conducting any background investigation and without assimilating them to the basic rules of our society.....like separation of church and state. This is where the future of our country is so fragile. Do we turn isolationist and age into oblivion or accept certain immigrants with plans to not only benefit from citizenship but contribute to our improvement. We must have order and rule of law first and then assimilate.

I couldn't agree more that we should have a rigorous vetting process. As far as the separation of church and state goes, it should be an iron-clad rule. I'm supremely tired of the Bible-waving troglodytes who espouse Levitican Christianity (selectively) for everybody.

[CathyA]

As for those millions of refugees flooding Europe........how do you vet those??
And it seems like it's much too easy to slip through airports/borders/ports, etc.
I think it's going to take a long time to figure out what we feel comfortable doing........while it's all falling down in the meantime. And we can't even deal with some of the lesser problems we have here in the U.S.

[CathyA]

+1
and in doing so, we follow the successful example of the Scandinavian nations

It sounds good in theory, but for many countries........the horse is out of the barn.

[Rogar]

A tragic loss of young innocent lives with a motive that is on the border of my comprehension.

I would just suspect in political circles immigration reform will take a backseat to a reaction of heavier military involvement.

[Williamsmith]

It sounds good in theory, but for many countries........the horse is out of the barn.

Because we have the European Example....that is why we should be busy putting in place a system that is able to repel an onslaught of refugees but process as many as possible new immigrants with the urge to make this country better and assimilate yet bring with them their culture.

[freshstart]

I couldn't agree more that we should have a rigorous vetting process. As far as the separation of church and state goes, it should be an iron-clad rule. I'm supremely tired of the Bible-waving troglodytes who espouse Levitican Christianity (selectively) for everybody.

ITA with everything you've said except the first sentence. William said later about only letting those in who will better our country (quoting loosely). To both of you how do we accomplish this? Who decides what is better for our country? Are hard-working non-English speaking Mexicans barred simply because of the language barrier, when they will do jobs many Americans will not do and they learn to adapt, speak the language and their children go on to make the next generation better? How do you vet Muslims on the actions of extremists when the number of practicing Muslims is so large? How do we handle refugees from violent, corrupt governments looking for a safe place to exist? Or are we only letting in successful immigrants who, on paper, look a lot like us?

As for the internment of the Japanese, I'm surprised if history is looking back on that as a success. I was taught in public school about this with a definite bent that we did something horribly wrong. That was over 30 yrs ago, that's how we spoke of it in my family even with a father with a military background. Not judging, just surprised.

ETA: I may be purposely clouding my own judgment in order to process what happened in Paris, kwim? It's still so raw

[Miss Cellane]

One of the terrorists was French, and known to security services. Another had an Egyptian passport. Please don't rush to pin this on Syrian refugees. While there may have been Syrians involved, they were most likely not refugees.

[Williamsmith]

As an immigrant, if you wish to live and work in the US! Then we need to find a place for you. But there needs to be a system for processing from a background investigation screening for felons to legal status to citizenship. No amnesty.

[JaneV2.0]

I would vet for any and all religious extremist indicators, police records, questionable associations...There are plenty of immigrants of all kinds that have none of those deficits. I don't have a problem with amnesty--after all, Reagan endorsed it. :~)

[freshstart]

sadly notes date in calendar that she agreed with Reagan, sigh

[Rogar]

I've always though that immigrants who come to the country without a highly desirable job skill should have to contribute time to a public or community service project, something like the Conservation Corps of the olden days, for so many months or hours before earning the right to citizenship. Unfortunately I've never heard come up in any discussions.

[JaneV2.0]

I've always though that immigrants who come to the country without a highly desirable job skill should have to contribute time to a public or community service project, something like the Conservation Corps of the olden days, for so many months or hours before earning the right to citizenship. Unfortunately I've never heard come up in any discussions.

That may be because infrastructure is barely an afterthought among most of our politicians.

[CathyA]

One of the terrorists was French, and known to security services. Another had an Egyptian passport. Please don't rush to pin this on Syrian refugees. While there may have been Syrians involved, they were most likely not refugees.

I wasn't thinking any of them were refugees. I'm thinking they were probably home-grown or members of ISIS or Al-Qaeda that have been maybe sleeper cells. But who knows. Sounds like they're unfortunately, pretty smart.

[ToomuchStuff]

Maybe this should be in the Politics section?
It seems to me the only way around this (if we can even get around it) is to make some laws that are much less humane. I know it's in direct violation to "democracy", but we have to stop letting certain people into countries.
Think back to the Japanese situation after Pearl Harbor. Yes, it seemed extremely unfair. But compared to today, we have much more reason to deny entry and citizenship to certain groups. I think we have to take our gloves off.
Our openness has created these problems and I hope we can rise to the occasion of what is needed. I'm not just talking about military action, but rather not allowing certain groups to enter one's country........and even sending some of them out of the countries. It may be too late.

I don't doubt that this might be a politics forum thing, but I think this was started as a more, general well wishes to the victims and their families thing.
I didn't even hear about the bombings, until last night close to midnight, and by the time I had heard "Paris attacked", I was falling asleep, so I didn't catch enough to understand what happened. (still don't know much based on the limited stuff I have seen online)
So your advocating for the return of American Interment camps, but for a religion this time?
I think openness, CAN contribute to a problem, but I don't think it is the actual cause. I think that is the people doing that.


As an immigrant, if you wish to live and work in the US! Then we need to find a place for you. But there needs to be a system for processing from a background investigation screening for felons to legal status to citizenship. No amnesty.

Define felon?
If someone defected from Russia, they could be a felon there (Treason), yet done something good here. Some crimes can go from a misdemeanor to a felony, depending on how someone is going for political gain/influence.
That doesn't take into account, those that were magically exonerated, so we could use their knowledge for the space program. (friends grandfather) Who would be the problem there? Him, or the ones that got him here and helped him stay?


By no means am I saying our system is perfect. I just think events like this, make people react, based on gut instinct at the time, instead of act, based on facts and true information, not bias, or without thinking how someones suggestion could be turned into something else, etc. (think of what the Patriot act did to rights)

[CathyA]

I was mistaken. I guess one of the terrorists had come with the refugees......He registered in one of the countries.....but they weren't sure if he had stolen someone else's passport.

[Teacher Terry]

The world is very different now then what it used to be in regard to immigrants. I think all the nations need to be very careful about screening people before letting them in. It is interesting that the Arab nations are not taking any of the refugees. The whole situation is so sad.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have friends and family not all that far away in Austria so I'm taking this attack on Paris very personally. This one issue I stand aligned with those calling for merciless attacks in return. Attacking Europe in a way is attacking me as I am a big believer in the social democracies of Europe. That said, I also worry for the innocent Muslim refugees fleeing ISIS who will be perceived differently now after the Paris attacks. No easy answers on this one I'm afraId. Rob

[JaneV2.0]

The uberhackers of Anonymous are riding to the rescue. vowing to shut down websites and other avenues of Isis communication and to expose members.

[bae]

The uberhackers of Anonymous are riding to the rescue. vowing to shut down websites and other avenues of Isis communication and to expose members.

Well, that'll certainly scare the pants off ISIS...

Between that, and Facebook profile French-flag-coloring, "Mission Accomplished!"

[JaneV2.0]

Well, that'll certainly scare the pants off ISIS...

Between that, and Facebook profile French-flag-coloring, "Mission Accomplished!"

No, I doubt that will scare them, but it should distract them. Maybe long enough to break up some of their plots. Whatever good people can do, helps.

[ToomuchStuff]

So I dropped a bomb on some friends that tend to have political arguments today.


So, are they still FREEDOM FRIES, or are they back to FRENCH FRIES, since Isis bombed the the French?

[Tradd]

We need to go scorched earth on the heathen scum. Hunt them down to the very last one, like the miserable sub-human rats they are. Think Dresden. Round up all the Muslim radicals worldwide to somewhere in the ME, fence 'em off, and figuratively nuke 'em from orbit. Destroying every last one of them like the cancer they are is the only way to deal with them.

[Mary B.]

The world is very different now then what it used to be in regard to immigrants. I think all the nations need to be very careful about screening people before letting them in. It is interesting that the Arab nations are not taking any of the refugees. The whole situation is so sad.

Teacher Terry, there are many, many Syrian refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Turkey (which, while a secular state, has a lot of Moslem people.) Here's something I found: "An estimated 9 million Syrians have fled their homes since the outbreak of civil war in March 2011, taking refuge in neighbouring countries or within Syria itself. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), over 3 million have fled to Syria's immediate neighbours Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq. 6.5 million are internally displaced within Syria. Meanwhile, under 150,000 Syrians have declared asylum in the European Union, while member states have pledged to resettle a further 33,000 Syrians. The vast majority of these resettlement spots – 28,500 or 85% – are pledged by Germany." http://syrianrefugees.eu

The idea that there are no refugees in Arab nations seems not to be correct.

[Tradd]

The Gulf countries aren't taking any, though

[Williamsmith]

The idea that the destabilization of the European Union by saturation of refugees and random terrorists is an unintended consequence is naive. ISIS was a creation to effect regime change in Syria. You paid for them as an experiment. Russians have interest in Syria. Call it oil. Call it strategic. Call it a power grab. Big countries don't spend big money and propaganda if they aren't committed to seeing certain things happen. Whose planes are in the air? That's whos to blame. Soon though, one side will be begging the other side for help stopping the flow and will accept a Europe much unlike it is today, with very strict border control. Visit London and Paris today while you can. The United States needs to gut check and secure its own borders because it will be playing second fiddle in a very large symphony soon.

[Ultralight]

The idea that the destabilization of the European Union by saturation of refugees and random terrorists is an unintended consequence is naive. ISIS was a creation to effect regime change in Syria. You paid for them as an experiment. Russians have interest in Syria. Call it oil. Call it strategic. Call it a power grab. Big countries don't spend big money and propaganda if they aren't committed to seeing certain things happen. Whose planes are in the air? That's whos to blame. Soon though, one side will be begging the other side for help stopping the flow and will accept a Europe much unlike it is today, with very strict border control. Visit London and Paris today while you can. The United States needs to gut check and secure its own borders because it will be playing second fiddle in a very large symphony soon.

I dunno... the US is not as friendly and open-minded as Europe.

[pinkytoe]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
I tried to read this article yesterday but it will take several readings to dig into. It is a complex situation but sounds like one of their main visions is to bring on an apocalyptic world war in the Middle East region. If they keep stirring up the pot in other countries, they might get what they desire, right?

[Ultralight]

It is a complex situation but sounds like one of their main visions is to bring on an apocalyptic world war in the Middle East region. If they keep stirring up the pot in other countries, they might get what they desire, right?

Crazy world we live in.