Anyone live on less than $20k a year?

[Ultralight]

Anyone live on less than $20k a year?

Just wondering about tricks of the trade.

[rodeosweetheart]

Such a great question--I would love to hear how people do this, especially with utility costs, housing costs, health insurance, etc.--just wonder how anyone accomplishes this!

[Kestra]

Yes. Housing - share with roommates or partner.
Don't own a car.
Live in Canada - cheap healthcare.
Otherwise just prefer to not spend much money.
Before I moved I spent about $1300 a month, not counting income tax.

[rodeosweetheart]

Yes. Housing - share with roommates or partner.
Don't own a car.
Live in Canada - cheap healthcare.
Otherwise just prefer to not spend much money.
Before I moved I spent about $1300 a month, not counting income tax.

Thanks, Kestra, that living in Canada part seems key and is hard to swing, lol.

[shadowmoss]

There is a journal on MrMoneyMustache.com of a woman named scrubbyfish (I think...) who lives on less than that. I haven't followed her journal, but her posts on other threads are interesting and informative. She also has a son (and lives in Canada).

[iris lilies]

There is a journal on MrMoneyMustache.com of a woman named scrubbyfish (I think...) who lives on less than that. I haven't followed her journal, but her posts on other threads are interesting and informative. She also has a son (and lives in Canada).

and Spartana lives on less than $20, 000 in So Cali.

[Dhiana]

Don't live in Hawai'i!!!!!

[catherine]

To rodeo's point about healthcare, I think you have to have no assets, so you qualify for the Obamacare subsidy, or you self-insure--you pay your own way, which of course is dangerous.

If you are serious about living on $20,000 or less, you are probably the type of person who believes that health insurance is a luxury. My permaculture teacher said that he has no health insurance--his health insurance is his lifestyle of living in nature, eating well, getting lots of physical activity and no stress. That may be naive to a lot of people: all he needs is an accident chopping wood or any other unexpected event, and you see how simply "living right" doesn't negate the need for healthcare. But then again, people may think like my DS, who won't get healthcare. He had a shoulder injury last year, and wound up with a reduced bill after negotiating with the hospital, which is is able and willing to pay. Turns out this bill is cheaper than what he would have to pay through Obamacare, so he's paying the penalty, and taking his chances.

[rodeosweetheart]

To rodeo's point about healthcare, I think you have to have no assets, so you qualify for the Obamacare subsidy, or you self-insure--you pay your own way, which of course is dangerous.

If you are serious about living on $20,000 or less, you are probably the type of person who believes that health insurance is a luxury. My permaculture teacher said that he has no health insurance--his health insurance is his lifestyle of living in nature, eating well, getting lots of physical activity and no stress. That may be naive to a lot of people: all he needs is an accident chopping wood or any other unexpected event, and you see how simply "living right" doesn't negate the need for healthcare. But then again, people may think like my DS, who won't get healthcare. He had a shoulder injury last year, and wound up with a reduced bill after negotiating with the hospital, which is is able and willing to pay. Turns out this bill is cheaper than what he would have to pay through Obamacare, so he's paying the penalty, and taking his chances.

Yeah, interesting. My husband is one of those who goes with your permaculture guy's way of thinking, but he did fall out of a tree while trimming it on the homestead and shattered pelvis, which was expensive. But we have health insurance.

Spartana, thankfully, has the VA for health emergencies. . .

[bae]

Some years I show almost $0 in AGI.

My house is paid for. Much of our food comes from the garden or the sea.

$20,000/year would be doable, especially if it was per-person. Except that I'm writing a full-fare check to my daughter's college, because they have an asset test.

Tricks of the trade: don't spend money, have a lot of capital.

[Ultralight]

Tricks of the trade: don't spend money, have a lot of capital.

Thanks! Though I must admit I have no idea how to have a lot of capital.

[bae]

Thanks! Though I must admit I have no idea how to have a lot of capital.

Might I recommend "Your Money or Your Life". I think people on this site used to read it...

[Ultralight]

Might I recommend "Your Money or Your Life". I think people on this site used to read it...

Oh, I have indeed read it. Though admittedly, I don't "live it." A lot of the real financial-type stuff in there was lost on me, like bonds and stocks and stuff.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Have the best tax people money can buy - or else taxes will just take it all, any luck you manage to have. Don't be downwardly mobile and earn less than you did a decade ago. Don't be me, mostly.

The tax stuff and having a good career plan and stuff might actually matter though, just saying, get expert advice on taxes and investments (unless you are an expert) and legal stuff and career and so on when you need it, don't just be entirely self-reliant, it doesn't work.

[Ultralight]

Have the best tax people money can buy - or else taxes will just take it all, any luck you manage to have. Don't be downwardly mobile and earn less than you did a decade ago. Don't be me, mostly.

The tax stuff and having a good career plan and stuff might actually matter though, just saying, get expert advice on taxes and investments (unless you are an expert) and legal stuff and career and so on when you need it, don't just be entirely self-reliant, it doesn't work.

I am not sure how to take... any of this. :/

My generation is largely downwardly mobile. I know I am already on that slope of earning less each year and with each subsequent job.

My investments are just a 401k from my job. I have a Roth too, but I don't add anything too it. It mostly just loses money or hovers around the same amount I put in it.

[bae]

My generation is largely downwardly mobile. I know I am already on that slope of earning less each year and with each subsequent job.


Are you an individual, or are you "my generation"?

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/5a/5a1338989372ac4ae03d51fb741e67aeb2e1e73fc483e1a62e f681f22281a5d8.jpg

[TVRodriguez]

We don't live on $20,000 or less as a family, but I could imagine it if I were alone. IIRC, I was spending just about $21,000 per year when I was single. I didn't track my spending but I was earning $37,900 gross and sending $16800 per year ($1400/mo) to my student loans. I also put money into a Roth IRA that year and took a 5 week international trip the first year and 2 week trips each year thereafter.

I lived with roommates in a cheap non trendy area, darned my socks, bought no clothes, exercised by jogging and doing yoga at home, bought and ate mostly farmers market or ethnic store food, got insurance through work, had a $63/mo budget for entertainment/dining/drinks/socializing, rolled my coins, always brought my lunch to work, spent about $50-75 per month on groceries, and generally planned any and all purchases. This was 1999 to the early 2000s. I was really driven to get rid of those loans!

ETA: Then again, as I said, since I didn't track my spending, this is all from memory, so maybe I'm blowing smoke and I was really not as frugal as I remember! I definitely do remember the sock-darning, though . . .

[kib]

I entertained myself earlier by googling InTownSuites. You can basically live in an efficiency unit in a hotel for about $10,000 a year (depending on the location of course). Possibly as low as $9000. This would include all your utilities, plus a landline phone, free tv and wifi and the use of all appliances plus bedding and towels, some pots and pans etc. Possibly even some workout equipment or a pool. And the nice little perk of being able to move next door if something goes toes up in your unit. This leaves about $833 per month for everything else. If you skipped health insurance it would be totally doable, with health insurance plus public transport I think it could still be done.

This isn't the cheapest or most individualistic way to live, but it does take a lot of the "sketch factor" out of cheap rentals, gives you unlimited utilities, completely avoids all the headaches of various contracts, probably includes some rudimentary room cleaning at least once a month, eliminates the need to wash bedding and towels, and avoids ownership and maintenance costs of a lot of mundane crap that tends to break. Basically you own possessions that are enjoyable and satisfying to you, and someone else takes care of renting you everything else. I can think of worse ways to live!

[Tammy]

From 1990-94 we lived on just under 20,000 a year - family of 5 with no health insurance. I'd be interested to know how that translates into today's dollars.

It was rough but we never missed a meal. We had one car. We bought only used clothing. One winter our meat supply was from a mule deer my husband harvested. We butchered it ourselves in the yard, then finishing the pieces on the kitchen table.

Our entertainment was taking a drive somewhere outdoors with a picnic lunch. We read a lot of books. No cable tv. Lots of do it yourself fun. The kids built and painted a lemonade stand and sold lemonade to our neighbor's one summer.

We lived In a two bedroom trailer and used the dining room as the third bedroom. The kids were elementary ages and younger. They didn't realize really how poor we were.

[Tammy]

And our grocery budget was 50 a week and that included medication and toiletries. I still remember that when I occasionally needed to buy my albuterol inhaler for $20 it made for a really rough grocery week.

[Gardnr]

From 1990-94 we lived on just under 20,000 a year - family of 5 with no health insurance. I'd be interested to know how that translates into today's dollars. .

$37,242.18
http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=20000&year=1920

[Ultralight]

Are you an individual, or are you "my generation"?




lol

And... you grew up much earlier in our nation's economic decline. There was still a lot more good stuff for you to get. So I understand that you are not sympathetic to my generation (and god help them) the generation after mine. But the future ain't what it used to be, bae!

[bae]

lol

And... you grew up much earlier in our nation's economic decline. There was still a lot more good stuff for you to get.


I didn't "get" good stuff. I made it. When I was a kid, we lived in something not quite as nice as a single-wide, and supplemented our diet with possum and squirrel. I can still play a mean banjo.


So I understand that you are not sympathetic to my generation (and god help them) the generation after mine. But the future ain't what it used to be, bae!

My daughter is almost 20 years old. She was offered a $48k/year job in the arts recently, with benefits, but has chosen to continue with her college education instead. But she busts her ass off, she doesn't sit around drawing a salary while posting on the Internet about how hard her life is.

The future is what you make of it.

[Ultralight]

I didn't "get" good stuff. I made it. When I was a kid, we lived in something not quite as nice as a single-wide, and supplemented our diet with possum and squirrel. I can still play a mean banjo.



My daughter is almost 20 years old. She was offered a $48k/year job in the arts recently, with benefits, but has chosen to continue with her college education instead. But she busts her ass off, she doesn't sit around drawing a salary while posting on the Internet about how hard her life is.

The future is what you make of it.

I ate my share of roadkill rabbit growing up. Many people in my old neighborhood would say I "made it" too.

You probably brought your daughter up in great privilege -- perhaps with a stay-at-home parent and lots of other good stuff. Someone growing up in the roughest parts of Camden, NJ probably would not have the same access to cultural capital that you provided to your daughter! She also had someone -- as you mentioned before -- who paid for her college. You!

Check you all's privilege! But nonetheless -- good on her for going to school and excelling!

My parents would not sign the FAFSA because they did not want the government to know information about them. Foolish, I know. So I had to wait until I was 23 and "independent" to go to college. No other way to afford it.

[Alan]

Check you all's privilege!
.................
My parents would not sign the FAFSA because they did not want the government to know information about them. Foolish, I know. So I had to wait until I was 23 and "independent" to go to college. No other way to afford it.
Privilege...LOL

It took you a long time to become "independent". I didn't go to college until my early 20's either, but that's because I spent the previous 4 years in the Air Force, then attended school as a newly wed father under the GI Bill while working full time.

As for the original question, I spent lots of years making under $20K. My first job out of high school paid $50 per week ($2600 per year). When I went into the service, I got a bit of an increase and jumped up to $289 a month ($3500 per year). My first job out of the service paid $6300 per year and when I moved into my eventual career a year or so later I jumped up to $10,500 per year.

In my experience, future income has been similar to compound interest, time and effort will take you far. A better analogy might be the rule of 72. My income doubled every 8-10 years (some years the rate was better than others).

Bae is right, the future is what you make it.

[bae]

It took you a long time to become "independent".


23 seems stretching it. "Emancipated minor" is one approach, for instance. Though I suppose once you are 18 you don't even have to go that route...

[ApatheticNoMore]

I imagine you have to be aware of all those options like emancipated minor at 18 to use them. And who is if they have only heard of other options. Not that I had those particular problems. Ideally it's something a high school or college guidance counselor could guide on if you knew enough to seek one.

I wouldn't have thought there was any way to go to college except night school while working full time to pay for it, or living at home or somehow getting the rents to pay room and board. Borrowing money for living expenses rather than just the raw cost of school (which I never considered either), I didn't hear about until a decade or two later. And I was like: people actually do that?

[TxZen]

We bring home, each of us, about $21k and $30K each.

For the first 10 years of our marriage, we lived small, in some rather interesting places but it was always an adventure. We saved what we could. I shop farmer's markets, only buy what we need, sell off what we don't use within a year (thought this is getting less and less YEAH!!!!) and honestly, keep it simple.

I shop discounts, especially for my classroom items. I beg, borrow and ahem..acquire..where I can. I get VERY creative. I do buy quality over quantity, so things will last. Example- my purse- had it for 6 years now and it's just starting to show signs of wear.

We keep expectations simple. For Christmas this year, I am having my hubby take my son to the store and fill a tote with school supplies for me. I gave him a list to work with but have him work it so that my son thinks he is picking it out. Add 2 of my favorite candles and I am good for Christmas.

Clothes/shoes- I shop quality but I can work a discount and coupons like nobody's business.

We like to stay home for the most part. We do 2 trips to the coast each year and stay in a little room with all our dogs and our son and just go to the beach and eat a lot of the local dives. Coupons abound again. We never buy chotskies or vacation items. Usually, we spend the day collecting shells or taking pics or just walking the dogs and playing in the sand. We did splurge last spring and go to an indoor garden with tropical animals but again, coupons and going on weekdays kept our costs down, brought our own water and snacks. Our son did get a hotdog and he was happy. :)

Just keep it simple. I guess we are content, so money is not an issue. We may not have what other's "have" but we are happy. :)

[Ultralight]

I imagine you have to be aware of all those options like emancipated minor at 18 to use them. And who is if they have only heard of other options. Not that I had those particular problems. Ideally it's something a high school or college guidance counselor could guide on if you knew enough to seek one.

+1

[Alan]

I was an ignorant kid in some ways -- first in my family to go to college. I grew up in a town of 230 or so people in BFE. I didn't know much about how the world worked. I have been learning as I go.
Join the club.

The point is to make the future what you want it to be, even knowing that you'll make mistakes along the way. If you believe you'll never achieve a goal, you won't, don't fall into that trap.

[ApatheticNoMore]

the point is to want what you get (have) probably

[Gardnr]

Hmmm, 20k would be tough in my little big town. A tiny 2br apt is 550 -800/m and a house w/yard is over $1k. The tiny motels are now at $144/week for a room.

I think survival on that for a household is entirely dependent on where one lives. housing is the biggest expense of living if shelter/safety/food/transport is expected.

To be perfectly honest, we haven't lived on that little since 1983 (I took a hell of a lotta call for the overtime then too to afford our home purchase).

So truly, I probably don't belong in this thread. It is interesting to read the comments however.

My niece/nephew cannot get school loans. My sister/BIL incomes are required on their FAFSAs. How on earth do some of your kids get around that? I don't understand. Hell, I know a 52yo man who wants to go back for a degree in engineering. The damn FAFSA wants HIS parents incomes. Stupid!

[Dhiana]

UA - Learning about finances is just another skill like plumbing or being a history teacher.

Take the time to learn and it will become clear which choices will make the most financial sense to keep your head above water.
I started with a book like The Idiot's Guide to Personal Finance to learn the jargon and moved on to more and more books
and websites to gain information.

Now I can sit and read all that fine print, understand it, and not be intimidated that I'm being ripped off. I can make a reasonable
decision as to where to place my & my husband's money that benefits us.

There are plenty from your generation that are making it so why can't you?
Don't just work harder, make your money work smarter, too.

[Tammy]

If that's what the equivalent of 37,000 felt like - well I have even more empathy for those living on 20,000 today. Unless we're dividing by number of people in the household .... We did have 5 of us.

Bernie's talk of $15 dollar minimum wage would be barely enough to get by, if there's only one wage earner in the household.

[Williamsmith]

My son is doing it. But he does his laundry at my place and eats here often. Small apartment is 550/ mo, plus electric and gas. A pretty hefty car payment on a compact car for getting to and from work in a rural county, a cell phone contract and a draconian child support payment that ensure he has nothing left for savings or retirement planning. No television service. No eating out. No vacationing. Working one full time 48 hrs a week and part time 24 hrs a week.

Bernies $15 minimum wage would give him a chance to have an emergency fund and a small retirement plan. It would make a huge difference.

[Ultralight]

UA - Learning about finances is just another skill like plumbing or being a history teacher.

I know! Indeed I am! I read YMOYL and all Jeff Yeager's Cheapskate books. I learned a lot. I went from not knowing what all my bills were and not knowing when they were due to having an emergency fund I could live off for 3 months. I used to be super-spendy -- not with stuff, but for convenience and for going out to eat (probably more convenience). But now I cook at home a lot more, keep my trips to restaurants much less frequent. I used to go to the Indian buffet twice a week. I have not gone in 6 months and I do not intend to go again ever! I could go on and on about how I used to be compared to now. But I think you get the idea.

[SiouzQ.]

Just a quick look before I go to work, but in 2011 my AGI on my tax return was 16,540. I worked in a guitar shop. Fast forward to last year, and it was $19,018. I've been working for Wholefoods for the past three years, and am finaly making $12.50 per hour, the most I've ever made as an hourly wage in my entire working life (I am 54 years old, and have always been stuck in retail. I was an art major in college). I live in a very expensive college town, but bought into a cooperative housing development when I was a single mom way back in 1996 which has kept my rent on my townhouse ridicoulously low for the area. I was lucky to have help from all the grandparents when I was raising my daughter. And I am very good with money; I have many ways in which to boost my income. I've rented my extra bedroom to various college students for the past three years which makes my living expenses incredibly low. I've sold plasma, I make jewelry, I used to clean for a lady who hoarded. I am very creative in that respect, finding ways to earn extra cash. I sell things at consignment shops too.

Anyway, I am extremely fortunate to have carved out the kind of life I want with a limited income, compared to others. I even take a three week camping road trip out west almost every summer (frugally, of course, because that is part of the fun of it. To see how richly I can live on as little money as possible). Well, I have to go be a wage slave right now, and bust my proverbial a** off waiting on people who think nothing of spending $20 on a container of Sonoma Chicken Salad. Heck, that's most of my grocery budget for the whole week!

[rodeosweetheart]

Thanks for a really helpful post, SiouxQ, as you are indeed currently living on less than 20k. Your comment about the 20dollar chicken salad really rang home. I always wondered if people who worked at Whole Foods could afford to shop there, as I don't feel I can afford to shop there. When we were in SC this year we went to the new one on Hilton Head and had lunch at the salad bar-- took what we wanted and then they weigh it at the check out counter--and it was 24 dollars, just for the two lunches. (My husband does eat like a horse, I will admit.) We are still laughing about he twenty dollar salad bar lunch.

We used to shop there, 15 years ago. It was expensive, but not completely out of reach.

Yeah, I used to live on less than 20k, but it's not true now. I know my son does--he lives with 5 or 6 other people in a sort of commune arangement that works very well, but I worry about how long that will be available, as people's circumstances change. But for now, he does, and I think he gets health insurance through the exchanges.

But when I run the numbers, I have a hard time getting it down that low, mostly because of utility costs and the costs of owning a car.

[TxZen]

Just a quick look before I go to work, but in 2011 my AGI on my tax return was 16,540. I worked in a guitar shop. Fast forward to last year, and it was $19,018. I've been working for Wholefoods for the past three years, and am finaly making $12.50 per hour, the most I've ever made as an hourly wage in my entire working life (I am 54 years old, and have always been stuck in retail. I was an art major in college). I live in a very expensive college town, but bought into a cooperative housing development when I was a single mom way back in 1996 which has kept my rent on my townhouse ridicoulously low for the area. I was lucky to have help from all the grandparents when I was raising my daughter. And I am very good with money; I have many ways in which to boost my income. I've rented my extra bedroom to various college students for the past three years which makes my living expenses incredibly low. I've sold plasma, I make jewelry, I used to clean for a lady who hoarded. I am very creative in that respect, finding ways to earn extra cash. I sell things at consignment shops too.

Anyway, I am extremely fortunate to have carved out the kind of life I want with a limited income, compared to others. I even take a three week camping road trip out west almost every summer (frugally, of course, because that is part of the fun of it. To see how richly I can live on as little money as possible). Well, I have to go be a wage slave right now, and bust my proverbial a** off waiting on people who think nothing of spending $20 on a container of Sonoma Chicken Salad. Heck, that's most of my grocery budget for the whole week!

LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS!!!! Over the years, we have taken on side jobs from babysitting to helping people move. I can tell you it's helped pay for a trip or Christmas. Currently, I am doing tutoring, for $18 an hour. I am really hoping to build my business up to about 30 hours a week.

[Ultralight]

Just a quick look before I go to work, but in 2011 my AGI on my tax return was 16,540. I worked in a guitar shop. Fast forward to last year, and it was $19,018. I've been working for Wholefoods for the past three years, and am finaly making $12.50 per hour, the most I've ever made as an hourly wage in my entire working life (I am 54 years old, and have always been stuck in retail. I was an art major in college). I live in a very expensive college town, but bought into a cooperative housing development when I was a single mom way back in 1996 which has kept my rent on my townhouse ridicoulously low for the area. I was lucky to have help from all the grandparents when I was raising my daughter. And I am very good with money; I have many ways in which to boost my income. I've rented my extra bedroom to various college students for the past three years which makes my living expenses incredibly low. I've sold plasma, I make jewelry, I used to clean for a lady who hoarded. I am very creative in that respect, finding ways to earn extra cash. I sell things at consignment shops too.

Anyway, I am extremely fortunate to have carved out the kind of life I want with a limited income, compared to others. I even take a three week camping road trip out west almost every summer (frugally, of course, because that is part of the fun of it. To see how richly I can live on as little money as possible). Well, I have to go be a wage slave right now, and bust my proverbial a** off waiting on people who think nothing of spending $20 on a container of Sonoma Chicken Salad. Heck, that's most of my grocery budget for the whole week!

Interesting. I work across the street from a Whole Foods. I always wonder what it is like to work there. Everyone seems pretty laid back, relaxed, and a fair number of folks seem genuinely into the work they do (like baking the pizzas or working the fish market or what-have-you).

[Aqua Blue]

I live on about 21k/yr. Here are this years actual figures for the first 9 months.
There were no surprises in Oct and Nov looks similar so far. I do have a chronic arthritic condition, which has increased my Dr/meds etc quite a bit over the last few years, altho it is probably off set by not being able to go and do things.

Auto gas $32
Lic/insurance $98
car replacement $200
other auto expenses where minimal(oil changes and a couple of car washes-when I couldn't do it at home because of cold weather. My brother changes the oil for me, I only supply the oil) Because it was so small I included it in misc for this chart.

Auto replacement is the only item on this list that isn't actual. I replaced my car last year. The last car I kept for 12 years and allowed $200 for replacement. I actually replaced it with this car for less than 12 years at $200, so I figured that was a reasonable number to continue. I always buy used and drive them for quite a while. 12 years is on the low end for replacing for me, the one before I had for 16 years. So we will see how this one goes.

Clothing $17
mostly garage sale/thrift store purchases. I seem to always find good shoes at the thrift stores. The only non thrift store are undies and bras. I haven't bought either this year. I usually try to buy them on sale and with a cash off coupon.

Family $25
includes gifts for niece for bdays etc. Also includes some food, whatever it takes for us to spend time together.

Food groceries $150
dining $120
dining is high, but I live alone and it is my way to stay connected with friends and family.

Health insurance, office visits copays(including eye, dental), prescription meds
$352

Housing
tax/insurance $263
maintenance $20
Decorating $56
I own my own home and haven't had a house payment in 11 years, although I have owned another house before this one. my house is only 6 years old and has needed very few repairs. The decorating has mostly been trees and bushes as there were none when I moved in, so that should decrease the next few years, but something else will probably take it's place, lol.

Recreation $76
includes season tickets to community theater and community concert series, movies, any books crafts etc I rely heavily on the library and thrift stores/garage sales for most of this.

Dog $70
He's 12 years old and this seems high, but he is on a special diet, so food costs more. This will go up a little more next month as he is due for rabies etc. He's money well spent. I'm guessing for the year he will be closer to $100/mo, which is about what he was last year.

Sales tax $33

Utilities $150
includes, electric, water, sewer, garbage, gas and newspaper

Basic cable, internet and netflex
$60
it is the first time I have ever paid for cable, but I do not get good reception with an antenna here, so I splurged.

Phone $25 Consumer Cellular no data, just a flip phone.

Lawn care/snow removal
$83
we didn't have a lot of snow last year, the year before this was closer to $100/mo. this is kinda of an added expense, due to arthritis, I just couldn't do either one anymore.

Misc $100
This includes the above mentioned auto expenses, things I call operational cost(like saran wrap, tp, shampoo, a new can opener), over the counter meds and a few supplements. I lumped them together for this summery, but actually know what each of them costs.

Vacation $200
I divided this number by 12 since I don't plan on going anywhere else this year.

Total $1753/month I realize this would be a very deprived life for some, but for me it is enough and often more than enough. I have good friends and family, a nice roof over my head, enough(more than) to eat, some extras and I am content. I could get under 20k with a decrease in dining outor not having a dog, but those things are quality of life for me.

[Dhiana]

I know! Indeed I am! I read YMOYL and all Jeff Yeager's Cheapskate books. I learned a lot. I went from not knowing what all my bills were and not knowing when they were due to having an emergency fund I could live off for 3 months. I used to be super-spendy -- not with stuff, but for convenience and for going out to eat (probably more convenience). But now I cook at home a lot more, keep my trips to restaurants much less frequent. I used to go to the Indian buffet twice a week. I have not gone in 6 months and I do not intend to go again ever! I could go on and on about how I used to be compared to now. But I think you get the idea.

It sounds like you have learned very well how not to spend. That's Step 1.
Keep reading and learn how to make that savings work for you. It never looks like much in the beginning, but once it gets rolling, it does make a difference.
Keep reading and learn how you can protect your money from various kinds of loss.
Keep reading. There's still a lot to learn.

[rodeosweetheart]

I live on about 21k/yr. Here are this years actual figures for the first 9 months. Total $1753/month I realize this would be a very deprived life for some, but for me it is enough and often more than enough. I have good friends and family, a nice roof over my head, enough(more than) to eat, some extras and I am content. I could get under 20k with a decrease in dining outor not having a dog, but those things are quality of life for me. http://pics3.city-data.com/images/ratepost.png (http://www.city-data.com/forum/reputation.php?p=41524141)



Thank you SO MUCH!! This is really helpful and inspiring and I am going to print out the actual figures and compare to our budget.

[kib]

Thank you SO MUCH!! This is really helpful and inspiring and I am going to print out the actual figures and compare to our budget. I was thinking the same thing, these numbers seem so clear, and also reasonable. While I've decided to take a break from perfectionistic accounting for us as a couple because I find it soul-sucking complicated to track someone else's spending, I would like a clear picture like this for my own expenditures in 2016. Any tricks of the trade for how you keep it so organized?

[sweetana3]

I could afford to shop at Whole Foods but every time I go in I am pretty horrified at the prices. I walk around, tasting samples, and get a $3.50 slice of fresh pizza. Sometimes I have tried their 25 cent cup of coffee.

The salad bar is pretty wonderful but at $8.49 a pound, I can skip it and just enjoy the smells. Would like it better if there was a scale located at the bar.

[kally]

My dh and I are in Canada, so some things are different. We pay very little for healthcare, and as we make less and less that will go down. That is a huge relief. We own our home, but it does cost a fair bit in maintenance. One of the things that does save us money is being vegetarian/vegan. When I see people shopping with 3 or 4 trays of meat that say $12 - 20 and a block of cheese at $16 (these are Cdn prices, but still) I realize how much flexibility that gives us in our food planning. For example today was oatmeal and raisins and almond milk, a big bean stew with bread for lunch, some fruit for snacks and then a cabbage soup with rice for dinner. This is really very very affordable.

[SiouzQ.]

It is expensive to shop at Wholefoods if you buy deli salads or do the hot bar and salad bar. All that money you are paying for your food goes towards the labor involved so you don't have cook it yourself. The starting wage at WF now is $11/hr. That's quite a bit for retail, I'd say. If you can afford to shop there, hopefully you can feel good about the people who serve you actually being able to make some sort of living. However, a lot of people where I work can't afford to live in this college town, so they commute from the rural areas to work there.

As for me, I do get a discount, though it is not huge. I do not do all of my shopping there by any means, but if you shop very carefully and buy only the basics (no prepared foods!), I think it is not too bad. There are some items I really like there compared to other stores, but to be honest, I do most of my shopping at Kroger and Trader Joe's, even though there is the convenience factor of being able to pick up a few quick items after I punch out.

[pinkytoe]

I think Trader Joe's hourly pay is better than what you are making at WF. I have a relative who works retail at Hobby Lobby and is paid $16 an hour after being there three years. I am surprised that WF isn't paying higher salaries especially with all their bad press (at least here at headquarters) lately.

[Mary B.]

I think things like the salad bar at Whole Foods can seem expensive or really not that bad, depending on what you're comparing them to. For me it's expensive if I compare it to making a salad at home, and cheap if I compare it to going out for dinner at a restaurant and having a salad there. (When I'm away for work and near a WF I sometimes do that.)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think Trader Joe's hourly pay is better than what you are making at WF.

maybe, but I've heard from people who have worked at TJs they don't hire full time because they are trying to skirt health insurance costs. But if one is seeking employment it might be well worth it to actually research this where one is, this is just what I've heard. So make sure on the health insurance aspect or if you don't mind using the ACA if you make that switch.

I will say that the people that work at Trader Joe's are generally HAPPIER than those at WF. TJs workers seem happy at work, the WF workers don't. But the TJs workers also seem to have interesting backgrounds (teachers working there between gigs and all kinds of odd things). And if a spouses insurance covers health care it ceases to be a concern in job seeking of course.

[catherine]

Thank you SO MUCH!! This is really helpful and inspiring and I am going to print out the actual figures and compare to our budget.

I agree--I love seeing other people's budgets--especially the people who have something to teach me! Dave Ramsey's discussion board used to be GREAT, because people regularly posted their budgets and had the forum members comment on them and give advice. It was wonderful, but unfortunately, the administrators of the board suddenly and without warning just took the boards down. I really miss it.

[awakenedsoul]

I have lived on just above $20,000. the last few years. My house is paid off, though. That makes a big difference. I also received a subsidy with Obamacare, so I only paid $108.00 a month for my health insurance. I drive an older car, and last year I went car free. My utilities are low, and I don't have cable. I buy my clothes at The Salvation Army, and I cook and bake from scratch. For travel, I just drive or take the train from So CA to No CA to visit my family. I buy my pet food at Costco, and go to the clinic at Tags for the dogs' vaccines. I grow a lot of my food, and I buy groceries when they are on sale. I knit and crochet my gifts, and make my own soap and laundry powder.

But, I have dipped into savings for work opportunities. Yesterday that meant a trip to Las Vegas to audition for Menopause the Musical. I spent $60.00 on gas, and $80.00 on a hotel room at Harrah's. I saw the show there, which cost $60.00. (They expect you to see the show so they can direct you.) I packed sandwiches and snacks instead of eating at restaurants. After singing two songs and reading a couple of scenes, the director asked me if I would tour. He said, "I don't have anything for you here, but I have tours." So, if I get a contract, my income will increase. (so will my expenses.)

This year my I will have spent over $20,000., as I had to switch my health insurance. I needed to replace my hips, and to to get the surgeon I wanted, I switched to Blue Shield in August and rejected the subsidy for the rest of 2015. Now I pay $439. a month, where before I paid $108. If I get a contract for Menopause, my insurance will be the same, but it will be easily affordable. I will no longer be living on $20,000. a year. But, I will aim to keep my other expenses low and pile away as much cash as possible.

I've also spent money from savings on reunions in NY a couple of times in the past five years. (for the business contacts.) It's a big expense, but it's paid off for me. So much of the business I'm in is who you know.

[Teacher Terry]

Good luck on getting the show! I have seen it & it is so good & funny.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks Teacher Terry. I was impressed with their budget, too. It's not an expensive show to produce, yet they have companies all over the world. I prefer shows without a lot of technology. I feel safer.

I was thinking about why I went over budget the past couple years. The first year it was my knitting hobby. I bought lots of beautiful yarn and took some classes. The next year I traveled to NYC for the reunion of "42nd Street". I guess what I realized is, I could stay in that budget, if it was just bare bones. (needs only.) But, it was worth it to do both of those things. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

[Teacher Terry]

Absolutely you do! I also like to knit & it is easy to get carried away with quality yarn which is usually expensive. I also knit for the homeless but then I only pay $5/skein for that yarn. I also get some even cheaper from thrift stores.

[Meezer_Mom]

Teacher Terry, I knit and crochet for the homeless too - specifically homeless children - and for cats in a Rescue program I support. I've received so many donations over the years that I have yet to buy yarn except for specific colors I want to work with. Maybe put out the word on your local Free Cycle?

[Packratona!]

We live on $20,000 a year normally, see my posts on "Freedom". We carry no debt on which we have to pay interest (pay credit card off each month). However we have taken out $$$ from savings this year to pay for major expenses of one-time house renovations (new countertop, cabinet refacing, flooring, paint, one new cabinet built to accommodate a microwave that will hang above the stove). I look at the renovation as partly a splurge, and partly just maintaining the value of what we own. I think it also could make the place easier and faster to sell whenever/if we eventually move; nimbleness is of value. This budget of $20,000 a year is for 2 retired adults with a paid off mortgage, in a major city. Necessary car use is minimal and we fly for longer trips using points from our credit card and also drive longer distances for trips to visit family and for visiting vacation spots we enjoy, mostly within a couple hours away such as the Florida Keys where we like to snorkle. We usually tent camp (which I enjoy) or stay with family when we stay overnight. We shop very frugally at ALDIS, Save-a-lot, ethnic and produce markets for groceries, and shop the loss leaders at the regular grocery stores, all of which we can reach by bike, bus, or walking when we want. We rarely eat out at restaurants, in fact almost entirely when traveling and when we have gift cards for restaurants someone gave us. We much prefer home cooking at friends' homes and having them over as well. Normally when I travel, we carry our own food and/or cook with food we buy at groceries at the location we go to. I cook very frugally, and know every trick in the book. I strive for $1 a pound eating, so am able to plan our budget accordingly. We eat extremely well. My husband rations his food for weight maintenance, I don't but should. That would bring our food costs down even lower and has health benefits. We live in a no income tax state. We try to keep our car usage under 5,000 miles a year to keep our insurance cost down. Our home association cost is less than $300 a month and includes insurance on the structure, all outdoor maintenance including the community pool, roof replacement, outdoor painting, lawn, etc. Our clothing costs are very low, we dress very casually normally (flip flops, sandals, or tennis shoes, barefoot indoors, shorts, shirts) I recently went to an evening dress only affair so bought a snazzy outfit at Salvation Army on their half-price day, that had the tags still attached. We don't have cable, use Redbox to rent movies for free using codes and their point system that gives you a free movie for every 10 movies we "rent" using the free codes. That completely satisfies any movie watching desires, though we have been known to darken the doors of an actual theater for a movie that we really want to see on the big screen. I look for sales on line on everything from cat litter to toilet paper. I constantly look for new ways to spend less. Recently, I decided to cancel my newspaper subscription to save money. Within two weeks, I noticed a special deal, they were giving a Wednesday and Sunday only subscription for $!0 A YEAR! So I saved $150 a year or whatever it was I was paying before, and still get the coupons. I am planning on signing up my husband and I at the dental clinic at one of the local universities, that will save us thousands over the next few years. I already save a lot by going to their eye clinic. We both have a tracfone, and also a land line with a pretty good plan. We manage to make and receive the phone calls we need to, at a pretty low cost. We wrangle with the internet company once a year to keep the cost down, and would be willing to shut it down if they don't give us a good deal (haven't had to do that yet). We would just bike to the library or wherever and use their wi-fi. We cut our own hair, needless to say don't do the manicure/pedicure thing at the mall or whatever. We drink alcoholic and soda beverages very sparingly, don't smoke, limit our gift giving (mostly immediate family only except for an occasional big occasion). Planning to take a cruise with the adult kids next fall during the off season, my daughter will spot a great deal for us on that. They just went on a 4 day one for less than $300 pp. I won't pack food for that trip ha-ha!
All in all, I enjoy my life; I am trying to get the right balance of outdoor activities and just staying home to do the things I enjoy doing at home. I really am enjoying the reading and learning I now have time to do. While working, it would be a challange to live on $20,000 or less, however it would be doable in certain circumstances and what your situation is. It all depends on your skill levels, your social capital, your debt level, your energy/health, your job perks that are not taxed, your emotional health, your ability to be flexible and learn, your open mindedness, your family support and obligations, your ability to live with less (get rid of stuff you are attached to but don't need), your ability to change, go against the flow, consider possibilities and alternatives. Once we figured all this out, we were able to arrange our budget so everything pretty much goes on autopilot. It is working out well for us.

[Packratona!]

I know! Indeed I am! I read YMOYL and all Jeff Yeager's Cheapskate books. I learned a lot. I went from not knowing what all my bills were and not knowing when they were due to having an emergency fund I could live off for 3 months. I used to be super-spendy -- not with stuff, but for convenience and for going out to eat (probably more convenience). But now I cook at home a lot more, keep my trips to restaurants much less frequent. I used to go to the Indian buffet twice a week. I have not gone in 6 months and I do not intend to go again ever! I could go on and on about how I used to be compared to now. But I think you get the idea.

Love that!

[Packratona!]

I entertained myself earlier by googling InTownSuites. You can basically live in an efficiency unit in a hotel for about $10,000 a year (depending on the location of course). Possibly as low as $9000. This would include all your utilities, plus a landline phone, free tv and wifi and the use of all appliances plus bedding and towels, some pots and pans etc. Possibly even some workout equipment or a pool. And the nice little perk of being able to move next door if something goes toes up in your unit. This leaves about $833 per month for everything else. If you skipped health insurance it would be totally doable, with health insurance plus public transport I think it could still be done.

This isn't the cheapest or most individualistic way to live, but it does take a lot of the "sketch factor" out of cheap rentals, gives you unlimited utilities, completely avoids all the headaches of various contracts, probably includes some rudimentary room cleaning at least once a month, eliminates the need to wash bedding and towels, and avoids ownership and maintenance costs of a lot of mundane crap that tends to break. Basically you own possessions that are enjoyable and satisfying to you, and someone else takes care of renting you everything else. I can think of worse ways to live!

Awesome post kib! Now that is creative thinking! What you are describing is pure luxury to most of the world's population.

[kib]

Lol, in a way it sounds like pure luxury to me, but it could be done for close to $20,000, so really if that's your budget and the life fits you - no pets, would prefer a very managed life rather than creatively maximizing every penny, job located in an area that has a decent extended stay hotel (or a tele-job), and the basics of what matters to you within a local bus ride, it's not out of reach.

[Gardnr]

Just a quick look before I go to work, but in 2011 my AGI on my tax return was 16,540. I worked in a guitar shop. Fast forward to last year, and it was $19,018. I've been working for Wholefoods for the past three years, and am finaly making $12.50 per hour, the most I've ever made as an hourly wage in my entire working life (I am 54 years old, and have always been stuck in retail. I was an art major in college). I live in a very expensive college town, but bought into a cooperative housing development when I was a single mom way back in 1996 which has kept my rent on my townhouse ridicoulously low for the area. I was lucky to have help from all the grandparents when I was raising my daughter. And I am very good with money; I have many ways in which to boost my income. I've rented my extra bedroom to various college students for the past three years which makes my living expenses incredibly low. I've sold plasma, I make jewelry, I used to clean for a lady who hoarded. I am very creative in that respect, finding ways to earn extra cash. I sell things at consignment shops too.

Anyway, I am extremely fortunate to have carved out the kind of life I want with a limited income, compared to others. I even take a three week camping road trip out west almost every summer (frugally, of course, because that is part of the fun of it. To see how richly I can live on as little money as possible). Well, I have to go be a wage slave right now, and bust my proverbial a** off waiting on people who think nothing of spending $20 on a container of Sonoma Chicken Salad. Heck, that's most of my grocery budget for the whole week!

I am curious if you claim the income from all of your extras on taxes. Thus paying SS, medicare, state, federal taxes on it. Or if it's all cash in your pocket? Pure cash goes a lot further than earned income. (I did a great deal of what you describe in our early days of severely limited income and no, I did not claim it).

[awakenedsoul]

Fantastic post, Packratona!

[Packratona!]

Fantastic post, Packratona!

Thank you awakenedsoul. I could go on for hours.

[awakenedsoul]

Oh do...please do. It's so helpful.

[SiouzQ.]

I do pay federal and state sales taxes on my jewelry business. Other stuff is so random that I do not.

On a side note, sometimes I think I am a hoarder, but with money, not stuff! I like seeing my emergency fund balance go up; by payday on Friday I will have 20k socked away. It's funny, the higher it goes, the more fun I have being frugal, because it's out of choice, not necessity perhaps? And this is even after my two month lay-about from the summer of not working due to the broken toe. Just think how much more I would have had had I been working that whole time!

[awakenedsoul]

Good for you, SiouzQ. You are so disciplined. Life is much calmer when you have a financial cushion.