Amazed By Lack Of Homelessness.....(Bit of a long post, be warned)

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have been meaning to post this for awhile and I'm finally getting around to it. Recently I was in both Spain and Morocco, both countries with very high unemployment rates. I was expecting to encounter a great deal of homelessness in Madrid with Spain's 20% plus unemployment rate and I saw maybe two people homeless the whole time I was there and not one person did I run across begging for change. I asked the front desk clerk at my hotel about this as I was so amazed. The desk clerk told me it was true that jobs are extremely hard to find and that unemployment is truly that high, but what disguises it is the fact that in Spain, most people have family that they can move in with to keep off the streets and keep themselves fed. So this is why I had encountered so little homelessness in Madrid.

So after I left Madrid, the next country I visited was Morocco, a poorer country and I wondered if I'd encounter a lot of homelessness there. I did run across beggars there but, interestingly enough, the beggars all looked recently washed and had clean if not wonderful clothing on. I ran across no obvious homelessness there. So I asked the couple that run the riad I was staying at about it - and they said that in Morocco, something like ten family members will live in a small space, and maybe only three of them are working but it is enough to keep the ten family members fed and housed and clothed. So the family is a big deal in Morocco, too. This couple that ran my riad also said that unemployment figures are meaningless in Morocco as so many people are what they call informally employed, i.e., off the books, selling things they make at the market to tourists or buying things cheap to resell to tourists at a higher price that the tourists think is still a good deal.

OK, then, so then I fly back to Phoenix. My first morning back, I ran some errands and I encountered five homeless people - fitting the stereotype of homeless people - in a space of two miles. Two by the Mexican supermarket down the street from me, and three by the light rail station near me. I was so blown away by this. America, such a rich country but more obvious homelessness than Spain (with it's 20% plus unemployment) and Morocco (with it's obvious poverty by American standards). What do you'all make of this? Perhaps a function of the breakdown of the family, or ? What do you think? Rob

[Teacher Terry]

It may be the difference that in those countries you can't actually get a job if you want one where in the US that is generally not true. Also many in the US are mentally ill & have substance abuse problems & maybe that is not the case in those other 2 countries. I am merely speculating here but it might be for very different reasons. I don't want to support someone that can get a job but is fussy about the work or won't seek treatment for MI or SA. Also many of the homeless in the US are so mentally ill that they belong in institutions, group homes, etc. We didn't have a problem with this until REagon closed all the facilities to address this horrible problem.

[mschrisgo2]

Interesting, Rob. I do think the commitment to family is huge. I suspect there is actually less mental illness in societies where that exists, as feeling isolated and alone in the world exacerbates propensity toward mental illness.

Then there's the societal expectations. In the US, it's "get a job and pay for your own needs." In the countries you visited, there is much more respect for the entrepreneur, historically and as a way of life. Here there is that love/hare relationship with "the man" - other cultures haven't ever bought so totally into that paradigm. They are more self-actualized, which is also a resiliency factor, working against the manifestation of mental illness.

[sweetana3]

It really is a cultural difference. We had a professor lead a discussion on this. Just think if you asked a huge family in the US to live together, pool their money, those who could work go out and work, those who could cook do it for everyone, and all live in a tiny house or apartment. Or have 10 or more single guys share one apartment. Imagine the screams. Our culture values independence and money over almost anything.

Here we still believe that every child "needs" their own room and their own stuff and their own "space".

[rodeosweetheart]

Very true, Sweetana, although my son lives with about 6 others (the number changes depending on who is in town) in a kind of communal arrangement in the city. They approach many things communally, such as food an obtaining food for others. Maybe things are shifting in this country, through necessity.

[Cypress]

As I understand homelessness, some people may make that choice to be out on the street. I could be wrong but aren't there always folks that cannot live inside or with others for various reasons. I agree the main cause may be mental illness or substance abuse. It's possible there are no family left for this person, or its better for them to be out on the street than suffer the abuse of others.

Also cultural values going on. Why is this tolerated here? I saw panhandlers in Sicily when I went there this year. They seemed to be professional beggars. I was approached more than once when I came out of ATM. Typically, a woman holds a child and asks for help using the child to gain sympathy. It's hard to know what is going on. I saw more than 4 beggars in Taormina. Why there I don't know. Again, had a poor child who did seem handicapped in some way, using that child for sympathy. I am not sure that would be tolerated in USA.

[SteveinMN]

Typically, a woman holds a child and asks for help using the child to gain sympathy. It's hard to know what is going on. I saw more than 4 beggars in Taormina. Why there I don't know. Again, had a poor child who did seem handicapped in some way, using that child for sympathy. I am not sure that would be tolerated in USA.
I've seen it. A woman or a couple with a small child claiming they need money for a car repair. Or bus fare back to Chicago. Not always, of course, but that method certainly is deployed here.

[iris lilies]

I have given money to a woman with a cat in a shopping cart on the streets in f San Francisco.

i shut the door in the face of a woman on my front porch, dragging her child along, to beg. I think I might have called the cops, don't remember exactly.

in a way I am more worried about the cat than the child,because there are tax supported social services for the kid, none for the cat.

[sweetana3]

I call the police nonemergency number (rings into 911) for anyone coming to my door that seems to be begging or that I might have a question about. We have people that are trying to find empty houses and elderly homeowners. Several have run various scams. One couple was checking alternate sides of the street. Since we are an urban environment with few people home during the day, the police want to know what is going on. I did note that a patrol car is often seen making the rounds when a call is made.

Always get a complete description and direction of travel. I have told the story before of the two teenagers going door to door that got a lecture on the dangers to each side of doing this. I would ALWAYS call if a child was involved.

[Williamsmith]

Truth is mostly these people are just operating in the areas where they get the least hassle. This is created because there is no way to confront the root problem at the level of interaction that occurs in a typical police contact. So it goes like this. Dispatched to check on homeless person bothering people or soliciting money. Contact made......unable to confirm identity or provide I'd and has no outstanding warrants or mental health escape. Appears to not be a danger to self or others. Now it has been determined that he/she is just a pain in your ass. Load such individual in the patrol car and dump them off in the next jurisdiction. I have been know to set them up with overnight accommodations or resources from the volunteer or church community. Go to next call.

[Gardenarian]

The homeless problem in this country is a disgrace. I find it despicable that when whenever the homeless are brought up the first response is to accuse them of taking advantage of the system. I wish people could see beyond their own privilege.

Other countries have psychiatric hospitals; we have deinstitutionalized the mentally ill and many of them now live on the streets. Community mental health programs are supposed to take the place of psychiatric hospitals, but a lot of people need more support than the U.S. is willing to give them.

There is less shame and more treatment for drug and alcohol addiction in other countries as well. Here, the rich can go in to rehab - the poor go into prostitution, dealing, and prison.

I live in a place where there is a lot of homelessness, and it's pretty easy to tell the travelers (homeless by choice) from those who are just coming apart at the seams. I'll give money to travelers if they are busking or otherwise trying to do something to earn a buck. To the ones who just sit there with some ironic cardboard sign and a pit bull puppy - eh, I'm not funding their gap year. Most of them have family they can go to and are clever enough to keep themselves together. (I know this because I talk to them and ask them.) I do worry about the younger ones, who look like runaways, and try to find out what their story is.

To the truly down and out - I just give, both personally and through our local shelters and food programs. The idea of anyone sleeping outdoors on a rainy winter night with only a thin blanket - well, who in their right mind would do that voluntarily?

You get to know a lot of these people when you work in a library. We get regular calls from family members who are trying to find their brother or father; they know the library is one warm place (with water and bathrooms) where people can hang out. It would be great if we had mental health centers that were as easily accessible as the library.

Our town recently had a series of meetings on homelessness, and it infuriated me that all that came out of it were a series of ordinances targeting the homeless. Being poor is not a crime!

[Tenngal]

if you have a family member with mental illness or a disability, you have no support. If you are working, who looks after them? There are no facilities available and the few remaining ones are being closed. The average SSI check is about $600 per month. $600 per month to cover their needs, food, shelter, supervision.
It is a shame and it is true.

[SteveinMN]

if you have a family member with mental illness or a disability, you have no support. If you are working, who looks after them? There are no facilities available and the few remaining ones are being closed. The average SSI check is about $600 per month. $600 per month to cover their needs, food, shelter, supervision.
It is a shame and it is true.
Tenngal, I can't speak to what it's like where you live; social services differ greatly between states, with low-tax states having the fewest resources. Here in Minnesota there has been a move away from institutionalized care for all but those who have no alternative. Instead, counties fund personal care assistants, visits from home nurses and therapists, and, in some cases, even payments for family members who meet basic requirements for caring for someone who cannot care for him/herself. It is more complicated to manage (for the county/state), but the affected person gets to stay in more-familiar surroundings and it is less expensive to fund care at home than it is in a nursing home or mental hospital.

Anyone who is caring for a family member with a mental illness or disability should contact their local social services department or call United Way to find out what help (governmental, NGO, volunteer, etc.) is available. People trying to do the right thing for their family members should not have to go it alone.

[rodeosweetheart]

"It would be great if we had mental health centers that were as easily accessible as the library."
It sure would. Our library functions like yours, as drop in place, and now the homeless lines the doors, which can be somewhat intimidating.
I used to work at a drop in mental health center on an Indian reservation and it was wonderful. I learned to play yatzee there.