Article: Obama, at Conference, Says U.S. Is Partly to Blame for Climate Change

[Ultralight]

How dare he?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/world/europe/obama-climate-conference-cop21.html?_r=0

[LDAHL]

Not much new in what he's saying. "One part moral crusade and one part green energy hustle", as his policy has been described. He can strut and fret upon the stage, scolding energy sources we aren't yet ready to eliminate, urging China and India to slow their growth, quashing the occasional pipeline and creating bureaucracies to distribute subsidies to friendly industries, but what kind of actionable plan is he forwarding?

[Ultralight]

Not much new in what he's saying. "One part moral crusade and one part green energy hustle", as his policy has been described. He can strut and fret upon the stage, scolding energy sources we aren't yet ready to eliminate, urging China and India to slow their growth, quashing the occasional pipeline and creating bureaucracies to distribute subsidies to friendly industries, but what kind of actionable plan is he forwarding?

Maybe he just dislikes "merka!"

[LDAHL]

Maybe he just dislikes "merka!"

More mendacity than malice, I think.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Who is the U.S.? Is the average nobody again to be blamed for the real crimes of our ruling class? Ok the average nobody might not be saintly, but the U.S. government including under Obama (as well as under past leaders) has deliberately undermined past climate agreements. Sure I hope this has all changed, I hope for a miraculous conversion ... I mean that would be a good thing ...

[Rogar]

Not much new in what he's saying. "One part moral crusade and one part green energy hustle", as his policy has been described. He can strut and fret upon the stage, scolding energy sources we aren't yet ready to eliminate, urging China and India to slow their growth, quashing the occasional pipeline and creating bureaucracies to distribute subsidies to friendly industries, but what kind of actionable plan is he forwarding?

You might check out Obama's "Clean Power Plan" and see if it meets your criteria for something more than the lip service you suggest. Some would probably say it's not enough and others, like the states that are suing the EPA over it, probably think it's too much.

Part of the lack of action, I think, comes back to the fact that only a little over half of Americans think that climate change is a big problem, and a little less than half think the government should be doing more about it. And in political circles the conservatives mostly think climate change is not happening or if it is, it's unlikely to be caused by people. It's an uphill battle. It's like the old saying, we have met the enemy and he is us.

[LDAHL]

You might check out Obama's "Clean Power Plan" and see if it meets your criteria for something more than the lip service you suggest. Some would probably say it's not enough and others, like the states that are suing the EPA over it, probably think it's too much.

Part of the lack of action, I think, comes back to the fact that only a little over half of Americans think that climate change is a big problem, and a little less than half think the government should be doing more about it. And in political circles the conservatives mostly think climate change is not happening or if it is, it's unlikely to be caused by people. It's an uphill battle. It's like the old saying, we have met the enemy and he is us.

The "Clean Power Plan" is more like a series of mandates than an actual plan, but I do like the decreased resistance to nuclear. I don't think there is enough emphasis on carbon capture, though. And to the extent we export American coal there will be less favorable impact on global emissions.

Over time, the decisive factor will be whether the developed world can bribe or bully the developing world to do as we say and not as we do. I don't see the industrialized countries dismantling serious chunks of their own economies. It's a sort of prisoner's dilemma, where every player wonders if the others will make the sacrifice if they do. Watching world elites discharge 300,000 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere to make speeches doesn't strike me as especially hopeful.

I think the real "lack of action" isn't so much the work of knuckle-dragging troglodytes as lack of confidence that government will act in a fair, effective, economically feasible way.

[Williamsmith]

The only thing they might accomplish is figuring out what countries will pay reparations in the form of money and loans to what other countries. They will give some developing countries a pass. And nothing will change. Including the fact that experts will never declare it is too late to fix even though some of their deadlines have already come and gone. There is always a chance of somebody making money on the whole deal.

if all of this is going to happen..........why aren't we getting prepared to deal with the effects of a warming planet? You know, just in case all this cooperative effort amongst all the nations is too little too late?

[Tammy]

I read a lot of science. Everything research based that I've read in the last year says we're beyond the point of turning this around. Our only option now is to mitigate the problems as they unfold.

[Ultralight]

I read a lot of science. Everything research based that I've read in the last year says we're beyond the point of turning this around. Our only option now is to mitigate the problems as they unfold.

I have thought this for a while too. We are experiencing "runaway" climate change now.

[Williamsmith]

Only question is, will I die from climate change before a terrorist moves in next door? And will the answer to that be on my mind when I step into the voting booth.

[pcooley]

I feel like I am far, far more likely to die from Climate Change than from a terrorist attack, (though if you throw in domestic shootings, it's probably fifty fifty).

It's almost impossible to rouse a global group of people out of their well worn habits if they are not directly threatened. "So a few island nations are going underwater, meh, things change." We're like those frogs that won't jump out of the pot while the temperature is slowly raised. (Does that really happen?)

A few more tornadoes. A few crop failures. Some flooding from hurricanes. None of that is going to turn the political will of the entire country. I don't believe the people who say they don't believe human activity causes climate change. I grew up in the South. I think they're just stubborn people who don't want to give an inch to a group of people who they see as wanting to control their lives.

Here in North America, for our generation, and probably our children's, the changing climate is just going to make life incrementally more difficult. It will be the places already under stress, Bangladesh for instance, that will suffer the most. I'm afraid that I'm pessimistic that we will radically restructure our transportation system, phase out fossil fuels, and live with a lowering GDP just because some countries, or even coastal cities, are drowning. Generally, I like to hope we're better than that in the U.S., but the facts don't often back that hope up.

[catherine]

I feel like I am far, far more likely to die from Climate Change than from a terrorist attack, (though if you throw in domestic shootings, it's probably fifty fifty).



I am neither overly concerned about dying from Climate Change nor terrorist attack. But to reframe the question, am I more interested in a candidate more committed to addressing climate change or one more committed to fighting terrorism. I'll vote for the Climate Change guy (which is why I'm a Bernie Sanders fan, and not a Trump fan).

One problem with the whole Climate Change approach is that it is built on stirring fear--because people are not likely to change unless they have something at stake, Bill McKibben et al have tried to make it personal by talking about extreme weather and a real-life WaterWorld scenario. The approach opens itself up to skepticism or outright rejection, despite backing by almost all scientists.

There are other environmentalists who take a more positive approach: we love the earth, and why would we wreak such destruction upon something we love? Why would we upset the delicate balance, rape forests, acidify waters, poison the air and waterways? Perhaps this approach is even less likely to rouse the people--but sometimes we're driven just as much by what we have to gain as to what we stand to lose. I think we have forgotten what it's like to be in tune with the natural world, and if we could recall the joy of it, maybe all this overdoing it would cause more revulsion. We should probably indulge in our revulsion at poachers who have killed the countless elephants and rhinos for ivory, revulsion at coral reefs dying off, revulsion at habitats and indigenous populations being destroyed.

I do see more hope in the younger generation. But if the Climate Change doomsday scenarios are real, no military action or border barricades between nations is going to save us.

[kib]

I ran into someone on vacation who was a big time climate denier. Or I should say ... a sociopath? Lol. It was very strange. The guy is obviously very bright, a geologist, but the disconnect was startling. His basic position is that the earth has undergone much, much greater climate upheavals. So this man-made business is a blip on the chart. Well of course it has. And of course it's a blip. That doesn't change the fact that it's a blip that threatens our society and perhaps our very existence as a species. He was also extremely egotistical, but somehow blip + being human = potential extinction (of himself as well as the rest of the species) didn't figure in for him.

[Ultralight]

I ran into someone on vacation who was a big time climate denier. Or I should say ... a sociopath? Lol. It was very strange. The guy is obviously very bright, a geologist, but the disconnect was startling. His basic position is that the earth has undergone much, much greater climate upheavals. So this man-made business is a blip on the chart. Well of course it has. And of course it's a blip. That doesn't change the fact that it's a blip that threatens our society and perhaps our very existence as a species. He was also extremely egotistical, but somehow blip + being human = potential extinction (of himself as well as the rest of the species) didn't figure in for him.

He will vote for Ben Carson.

[kib]

if all of this is going to happen..........why aren't we getting prepared to deal with the effects of a warming planet? You know, just in case all this cooperative effort amongst all the nations is too little too late? I think we are. But I find it maddening, in a way. My perspective is that the government's no smarter or stupider than any of the rest of us - they're aware there's a problem and they have more useful data than anyone else. I get a feeling that the bottleneck comes down to transparency. If they put the problem on the table for real and people decide to try acting in ways that actually might help, the economy collapses, or so it's perceived. I believe there IS a military/governmental plan in place, or at least it's one of their many irons in the fire, but they are operating on the fantasy that somehow they can save an economic growth model at the same time they mitigate the social collapses that over-consumption (which has led to climate disruption) causes. Neat trick, that. Once we see where this is going (domination of remaining world resources and protectionism to the point of gross xenophobia), there might be backlash, so best to leave it quiet.

-- this is utter blue-sky fantasy, but ... I wouldn't put it past our government to be manufacturing some of the current xenophobic / social panic. 9/11 theories, anyone?

[Ultralight]

I think we are. But I find it maddening, in a way. My perspective is that the government's no smarter or stupider than any of the rest of us - they're aware there's a problem and they have more useful data than anyone else. I get a feeling that the bottleneck comes down to transparency. If they put the problem on the table for real and people decide to try acting in ways that actually might help, the economy collapses, or so it's perceived. I believe there IS a military/governmental plan in place, or at least it's one of their many irons in the fire, but they are operating on the fantasy that somehow they can save an economic growth model at the same time they mitigate the social collapses that over-consumption causes. Neat trick, that.

But what's a workin' man to do?

[kib]

Dunno. I'd like to say I'm leading by example but I know my own behavior is hypocritical, I like my gadgets and conveniences plenty, although I try to rein that in. Someone in the last couple of days suggested that our bigcorp government is an enemy occupying our territory, but we have no decent weapons and also no feasible plan for taking it back. I tend to agree, and I also wonder whether any revolution and capture would be any better than the current intellectually maddening but physically comfortable zoo cage in which I currently reside. Sigh.

[Ultralight]

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

[Gregg]

A few more tornadoes. A few crop failures. Some flooding from hurricanes...

Here in North America, for our generation, and probably our children's, the changing climate is just going to make life incrementally more difficult. It will be the places already under stress, Bangladesh for instance, that will suffer the most.


I also tend to think that places like Bangladesh will be hit the soonest and the hardest. Poor countries just don't have the kind of infrastructure to divert resources to hard hit areas on a large scale and in many cases don't have the resources to begin with. We do, but if climate change really did accelerate as some believe is happening then we could be facing a lot more than a few extra storms. Think in terms of a drought that lasts for decades instead of years. Famine effecting billions of people. Global water wars. Large and desperate populations have shaken up the status quo before. Its not all that far fetched to think we could be facing more than just incremental changes here.