"Boarding contract" for a purebred dog -- any thoughts pro or con?

[mamalatte]

Hello All -

I haven't posted in a long while, going through a tough time but starting to see light at end of tunnel. Seeking the wisdom of the group on a random issue.

My kids (12 and 8) and I have been looking to adopt a dog for a long time; we are taking our time to find the right one. We don't want a puppy -- I've had one before and am not up for the intense work of the puppy period right now. So, we are looking at young dogs, like about a year or so old, i.e., already housetrained and any other training a plus. We have been looking at shelters and rescue groups, but only considering dogs we can meet in person before deciding (some places ship them to you from far away and you basically just have to take the dog when it gets to you no matter what so I'm not willing to do that). So far no luck. Many of the smaller dogs we have liked based on information online, when we inquire about them they have been returned for aggression or biting, etc. Some are simply untrained but large -- my kids are still too small to control a big dog that has no leash training at all. I am ready to shoulder responsibility for care of the dog as needed, but I do want the kids to at least be able to walk the dog without me having to go along every time until it is dependable on a leash.

The other day, I saw that a breeder of Golden Retrievers had a one-year-old dog available, completely trained, knows hand signals, gorgeous dog, etc. I thought wow that must be a REALLY expensive dog and moved on. But I kept thinking about the dog, so I decided it couldn't hurt to at least call and ask about the price.

It turns out what they are really looking to do is find a "boarding contract" for the dog. I had never heard of this, but basically the idea is that the dog lives with your family but the breeder is allowed to take it to compete in shows once in a while, and then once it turns two, they have the right to breed it a certain number of times (I believe in this case it was 3 or 4) and the dog has to stay at the breeder's for about 8 weeks when the puppies are born. We would be welcome to visit, see the birth, etc. Once all the breeding has occurred, the dog is spayed and then we would keep it forever. Apparently the reason some breeders do this is as an alternative to keeping the dogs out in kennels. They would rather have them in homes living with families.

I have never heard of this before. What I like about it is that the dog is beautiful, beautifully trained, and seems so much more likely to be the happy addition to my family that I am hoping for rather than a problematic addition. The lady said many of the "boarding" dogs are with families that have kids with special needs, so these are very well-trained dogs, and I am also actually hoping that this dog will help my daughter to unlock emotionally so that was a plus to hear that information. Also, it seems interesting to learn about breeding and see the puppies, maybe go to a dog show, etc. I don't know anything about this, and the kids are interested too. I don't even mind the fact that the dog will occasionally be gone for a bit -- the lady said people often plan their vacations then, sounds like a win win.

As for the cost, she said she charges about $1000-$1500 but sometimes she has just waived that in special needs cases. To some extent, it almost seems like she should pay me to do this, but I can afford the range she is talking about and don't want to get hung up on that -- I really just want to successfully add a dog to the family, and even most rescue dogs have a $200-$400 fee. Her puppies cost $2500-$3000. I checked them out online and they seem very reputable, the dogs win all sorts of awards, etc. etc.

Has anyone ever heard of this or done this? Any thoughts pro or con? Appreciate any input you might have.

Mamalatte

[iris lilies]

I would Run away, far away.

i may write more later because I've gotta go someplace right now, but it's a Ponzi scheme.

While it's true that some high end breeders place their adult dogs in homes and reserve the right to take them to show and breed, I would not get on either side of that transaction whether as breeder or pet owner unless I was actively involved in the breed.

isnt it it true that goldrens don't calm down until about two years anyway?

Ps I can't imagine shipping a rescue dog. My rescue group does not adopt outside of a two,hour drive because too often we have to retrieve the dog.

[Float On]

That sounds off to me.

[Williamsmith]

Thoughts off the top of my head.......having owned several dogs that i absolutely loved ......I have found that a simple breed research relative temperaments, sizes, breed tendencies, etc. is time well spent and all that is needed. Overthinking this by reaching beyond your local community is both unnecessary and asking for complications. You have so many resources locally which include reputable breeders, dog clubs, humane societies and animal rescue chapters.....why not rely on some of these to meet good trustworthy people and find the dog that matches your family.

Getting involved in a boarding contract invites frustration. Are you really wanting to worry about the dogs health and welfare in relation to another owner? And one thing is for sure, Im not obtaining a family pet on a contract that closely resembles an auto lease. Too many ways they can use legalese to screw you in the end. What happens if the dog runs out into traffic or gets lost or comes down with an undiagnosed illness? Who pays for the owners loss? Gets into too much back and forth on negligence, etc.

The golden retriever is one of the best family dogs I can recommend. The only downside is that they tend to come down with incurable cancers past the age of ten. The temperament of the dog couldn't be any better. My best friend was a golden retriever. Really !

[iris lilies]

I'm back. My original post was basically ok but I'll elaborate on it.

This practice you describe by breeders is carried out by both ethical and unethical breeders. For the unethical ones, it's a multi-level marketing thing that allows them to make money from dog flesh but not do the work of taking care of a dog. It also allows them to avoid kennel laws. If they farm out a a majority of their dogs, they have only a few at their house and they don't need to put up with kennel inspections and Dept. of Ag requirements.

My friend who is an ethical breeder, a hobby breeder (meaning she doesn't make money from dogs because it's a net negative activity for her) has placed a couple of her bitches over the years with this kind of arrangement. But--and this is a big but--those who take her dogs are very well known to her. They are people who have been involved in rescue for many years. There is NO WAY she would hand over a breeding female to someone she doesn't know well.

I would be skeptical of this deal for several reasons:

1) I don't want to deal with an intact female dog through several heat cycles, both the bother and the responsibility isn't something I want in a pet

2) I don't want a contract being the dominant structure of any relationship I have with a breeder.

Williamsmith's idea about negligence is good.

I have seen so many relationships between breeders blow up in the past 25 years, I want no part of it. Once a bitch is spayed, they cease to have much value to a breeder and hotheadedness seems to calm down.

One should maintain a relationship with the breeder of their dog. An ethical breeder will have a contract that calls for the dog to be returned to them in any situation, but that's for protection of the dog and it covers the lifetime of the dog whether intact or spayed.

3) I would be worried about my kids getting attached to a dog and then something goes wrong and that dog leaves our home

In summary, I personally would take a breeder retired dog, but one that is ready to be spayed. Sure that dog will be older, but well worth fewer strings attached to her.

[Gardenarian]

That sounds troublesome. Your dog becomes a member of your family, and I wouldn't want someone having control over their life.

I think golden retrievers are lovely. Most breeds have rescue groups. You could try looking for "golden retriever rescue" in your area. There is often a higher fee than at the pound because the rescue groups usually individually foster each dog. We have got 3 dogs in the past through a breed rescue group, and they were great - though they can be a little picky! They have a big application and often a home visit - almost like adopting a child.

Here is a link (http://www.grca-nrc.org/state_listing.html) to a national rescue for goldens.

[mamalatte]

Thanks Williamsmith. We have been looking off an on for over a year in the usual places, our local shelters and rescue societies and word of mouth. My impression is that a dog with the profile we are looking for -- gets along with both kids and cats, not too huge, and also not a puppy -- is just a relatively tall order and hard to find. Breeders only seem to have puppies, as far as I can tell. The fact that this one breeder was offering a one-year-old dog was what got my attention in the first place . . .

Thanks for your thoughts on what might go wrong, hadn't thought of some of those possibilities. A friend also told me about someone in our neighborhood who did this a while ago with a different breeder and breed (Bernese Mountain Dog). They apparently really enjoyed it but ultimately had a big disagreement with the breeder when the family thought the dog was tired out from all the breeding and wanted her to rest, but the breeder bred her anyway and she had nine puppies and a very difficult birth and her health was never the same. So, there do seem to be a lot of things that can go wrong.

irislilies - Thanks for your thoughts also. I am surprised how many rescue societies do these truckstop adoptions where dogs are transported from far away and given right to a new owner who has never met the dog. That is not for me, but apparently is working for many people. The dogs are coming from "high kill" shelters where their time was up, so it seems certainly worth a try vs. the dog being destroyed . . .

Sounds like I would be better off sticking with my search at the shelters and local rescue groups, and/or possibly reconsidering whether to get a puppy . . .

[iris lilies]

Dont get a puppy!!! They are so much trouble, ack.

What you need to do is zero in on a few breeds you like, make yourself known to breeders, and get on their waiting lists for retired breeding dogs. Ethical breeders breed their bitches only a couple of times, then th y need to find homes for them.

Where do you live? I find it really hard to picture a place that doesn't have thousands of shelter dogs. But then I live in the puppy mill capital of the US so we have lots of,dogs though not necessarily from mills.

[mamalatte]

Thanks, Gardenarian. Yes, we have been doing the rescue group thing. They all have separate applications and processes. So far we have been approved by one group, but in the end we all did not think the dog we had initially inquired about was a good match for our family. We are hoping maybe another dog will come up with that same group so we don't have to do the whole application process again.

Golden Retrievers very difficult to get. One Golden rescue society that works in our area does not let you apply for a specific dog -- apparently if you meet their criteria, they choose one for you. They have volunteers in our area who will do home visits and check you out, etc., but most of the dogs are in another state far away and it is the same deal where they ship it to you sight unseen. I'm not set on a Golden though. This one thing that came up just happened to involve a Golden. I have always had mutts, and the other dog we applied for but decided not to get was a mutt.

[rodeosweetheart]

I love goldens, too; my first dog with kids was a golden, and we have one who is turning 2 this month. She has NOT calmed down however. She believes in her heart she is a border collie, and she herds everything. If you throw a ball, she looks at it and says, "Homie don't do that."

For what you want, I would take a retired breeding golden. I know there is a breeder up her in Michigan who sometimes sells her retired breeding dogs. She has one now, 5 years old, for 1800 dollars:
http://platinumgoldens.us/Availablepuppies.html

I don't know if the description would work for you, but I would look for something like this with a golden breeder, like IL said.

[rodeosweetheart]

Here is another one I found via Googling. I just happened to know about the first one because we share a vet.

http://www.goldenmeadowsretrievers.com/golden-retrievers/retired-golden-retrievers-for-sale/

[mamalatte]

We live in Maine. There is one very small shelter nearby (usually has maybe 6 dogs) and two others within about an hour's drive (one of these also small with only maybe 6 to 10 dogs; the other is a little bigger). Many of the dogs are pit bulls or pit bull mixes; not interested. Many are up from the South with previous history unknown; I consider them, but cautiously. All post their dogs online. I have those all bookmarked and check them regularly; if we see anyone that we all like, we go over and check the dog out, or sometimes we just drive over and see who's there. Actually the kids' dad got a lovely Redbone Coonhound when he was with us on one of these visits. They did not think the hound would do well with cats, but it's a great dog with the kids so I know they are out there.

The rescue societies have seemed the most promising so far, the dogs are in foster care and the foster parents are very familiar with the dogs' habits, personality and level of training (or lack thereof) and therefore very helpful in advising whether they think the dog would be a good match for our situation. It is just a long process doing the whole application, home visit, etc. before you even meet the dog, then setting up the visit with the dog. It took about three weeks from start to finish for the process to play out for the dog that we ultimately decided was not a good match. We inquired about another dog at same rescue about ten days ago but someone else was first in line for that dog so that's on hold. If we look into others at other rescue groups we would need to start the process over.

I think I'm already doing the right things and need to just keep on keeping on . . .

[mamalatte]

rodeosweetheart - the retired breeder is a great idea, thank you!

[rodeosweetheart]

Mamalatte, my brother is in Maine, and he just got one of the rescue dogs that came up from a puppy mill in the South--Tennessee--they drove down to Kittery to pick her up. She is a border collie, and very smart and pretty, a typical border collie.
So in their case, it did work out okay. Lots of goldens in New England, so maybe the retired breeding dog would work!

[rodeosweetheart]

Here's one to try:
http://www.colonialgoldens.com/colonial_rev/home.aspx

Sorry, can you tell I love golden retrievers?

[Gardenarian]

Dont get a puppy!!! They are so much trouble, ack.


I can confirm that they are a lot of trouble! Not too much - not yet - but a HECK of a lot of time and energy.
It's like having a newborn baby; thank goodness dogs grow up so much faster. No way could I take 2 years of this.

[mamalatte]

I know, I know, I've had a puppy before! Whack me on the head if I say again that i'm considering it!

[pony mom]

Just be patient and the right dog will come along. You don't want to rush into owning the wrong dog for the next 10-12 years.

You may not have something like this near you, but there are programs where rescue dogs are loaned to prisons for the inmates to train, then adopted out. I know this is done with greyhounds (another great breed for a family). You can also ask your vet if they know of any dogs that people are looking to rehome. There's a podiatrist in my town that brings dogs here from another country; they are vetted and adopted out. Most are young and mixed breeds. There are a lot of people rescuing dogs from Mexico and the islands.

[mschrisgo2]

Well, I brought home an 11 month old American cocker spaniel in September, so she is almost 14 months now. She is a Handful!! She is Naughty!! She is sweet, lovey, beautiful, and very smart. And she often chooses to do something other than what I asked of her!! She actually has an obedience title, that's the primary reason she was so "old" when I got her, I was originally going to bring her home in June. Her breeder's granddaughter wanted to finish her Junior Handler certification, with this dog, "because she is smart and learns quickly." HA!!

Did I say she's Beautiful? Meets breed standard in every way, except coloring. She is a black-n-tan, but she has a prominent White throat and chest (should also be black). So she's not eligible for showing in conformation, and her breeder knows that using her as a breeder anyway would produce probably half a litter of mis-marked pups, i.e. also don't meet breed standards for color. So the long and short of that is that she was available for purchase as a pet, and came to me already spayed.

I know this breeder because my other dog was rescued from a hoarding situation and this woman took her in, kept her in her home, gave her lots of love, and taught her to be a great house pet. As best we can figure, she was about 5 years old when I got her. She was way easier to bring into my life, because she was timid in the new situation, bonded to me immediately, and still looks to me for almost every direction almost 3 years later.

Now, this pup? Oh, My! She has been dearly loved from the minute she was born, and she is tremendously full of herself!! She is bold and confident, and knows no fear or limits. Integrating her into our home (just me and the dogs) has been a real chore. I knew going in that she would need intense training for at least a year, but I had forgotten just how much time, energy, and commitment that is. Don't get me wrong, I'm in love with her and vice versa, and not sorry I got her, but if I hadn't had a similarly tempered cocker in my first one 23 years ago, I would be way in over my head.

All that to say- if you don't want to do "puppy" you need to get a dog that's past 2 years, in fact, closer to 2.5 would be best, IMHO.

As for the rescues, I did cocker rescue for about 3 years. We placed an average of 2.5 dogs a week, for 2.5 years. All the dogs were in foster homes, and I was the person in touch with the foster parents, facilitating vetting, delivering food, etc. so our adoption adviser would call me to say a family was interested in one of our dogs that they'd seen listed on PetFinder. Then I'd ask what they were looking for, temperament-wise and what their life style was, and how they saw a dog fitting in. Almost always there was another dog that I was pretty sure would be a better fit. I would arrange for both dogs to be present when they came to visit, and Never did they even look at the dog they originally thought they wanted because the other one Was the Right Dog for them. It was just amazing, over and over.

So I would encourage you to find an all-breed rescue and let them get to know you. Then _let them call you_ when a dog comes in that's right for you. Needs to be experienced people who keep the dogs in foster homes. And they will be able to tell you about cats and kids, etc.

Oh, yeah, that "boarding contract" - that sounds like a scam to me. Run, run far away.

[Teacher Terry]

Often small dogs get labeled as biters because they have been roughly handled or hurt by kids. Most are not really biters. The nip in self defense. Goldens are high energy until at least 4. A good friend of mine always owns this breed and they are wonderful but a handful.

[freshstart]

I would not go near this breeder, that she was so ready to hand her over, IDK, sounds fishy.

I have had two pure bred dogs in my life. A mini-dachshund who was delightful but was the only survivor of his mom being run over when he was in utero and she survived. It soon became clear that he was missing some brain cells and was not particularly trainable, but I liked that breed, he was great with kids, no shedding and not too yippy considering his size.

My other purebred is a Cavalier King Charles spaniel I adopted from a friend's mom when she got too old. This dog (and I have read this is true of the breed) is perfect for a family, easily trained, loves to play but most important, just wants your love and affection, will sit on your lap as long as you let him. Playful but not high energy that it would bother someone. Very social. No one has met him yet who has not fallen for his charms. I have met several owners of this breed and all say the same things. When I am old and in a Senior Apt and allowed only a small dog, I will get one of these. Most mutts are bigger and it is hard to find a small dog at the shelter.

But all of my best dogs were and are mutts from the shelter. I have a mutt who was brought up from a kill shelter in FLA after the hurricanes. I live in NY so the volunteers who transport these dogs are saints IMHO. I won't get into details but she is miles beyond all other dogs I have ever had. Even though she had been sick and abused, was terrified of everyone but me, we took a chance, loved her up and she responded 100 fold.

I plan to keep going with mutts older than 2 and getting them fixed, I think that is the responsible thing. Even if you get a purebred, no one says you have to breed her or show her, she can just be a regular ol' dog in a regular ol' family. And I only plan to get a purebred if I can't find a small dog when I'm 80, lol.

But if I was buying pure bred for my family, I would not hesitate on a Cavalier King Charles spaniel. Mine is red and weighs 25lbs, this is big for the breed but he came with papers so I guess they can really range in size.

good luck!

[freshstart]

I know this breeder because my other dog was rescued from a hoarding situation and this woman took her in, kept her in her home, gave her lots of love, and taught her to be a great house pet. As best we can figure, she was about 5 years old when I got her. She was way easier to bring into my life, because she was timid in the new situation, bonded to me immediately, and still looks to me for almost every direction almost 3 years later.
.

My current wonderful mutt, the one from FLA, they estimated to be 5 as well. I hesitated selfishly because that meant fewer years together and then realized I was being ridiculous. 5 was a good age, she was housebroken (my least favorite thing to train, I am not very good at it) and was at a good stage in life, active but happy to sleep half the day away as long as she was next to me. She still follows me everywhere. She's now approx 12 and she has not slowed down much, still up for roughhousing and play, spry as can be. I am glad I took that chance on age. I did it again with my friend's mom's Cavalier, he was 5. He's around 8 and shows some signs of arthritis.

[pony mom]

When rescuing an adult dog, remember the amount of time they have left with you is more important than the time you have with them.

I rescued my dog when she was four, housebroken and past the puppy/chewy stage. She had fear aggression issues, but positive training worked great and she was a wonderful dog.

[pinkytoe]

When I read posts about dogs, I am relieved that I have decided to not get another one. I love dogs but when the weiner dog goes (she is 16), that's it. DD got her dog, a mastiff, through a rescue group and it has been a delightful pet. If I were in dog acquiring mode though, I don't think I would go for the breeder foster situation as described.

[mamalatte]

UPDATE: We found an AWESOME rescue dog and brought her home two days ago. She is so sweet and loves people, especially kids. She is also house-trained, crate-trained, plays fetch and walks fairly well on a leash. She is an All American Shelter Dog mutt, white with brown spots and about 35 lbs. I couldn't figure out how to attach a photo but as of now her photo and profile are still at this link from the rescue group. She is the first one listed named Clementine. They don't really know how old she is but estimate 2 to 5 years old.

http://www.libbyslegacy.net/adoptables.html

The kids are thrilled and the dog is very well behaved and fitting in with the family beautifully already.

Thank you all for helping me to be patient and talking me out of the breeder contract idea and the puppy option!

[rodeosweetheart]

She is gorgeous!! Maybe part beagle and spaniel?

[pony mom]

Hooray! Worth the wait.

[Williamsmith]

Glad it all worked out so great.

[mschrisgo2]

Aw, I'm so happy for you and your new addition! Rescued dogs are awesome, and she sounds like a real sweetheart!

[mamalatte]

Thanks for the good wishes, she really is so sweet and such a snuggler! She is snoozing next to me right now . . .

Guesses on her breed have included beagle, yellow lab, and English setter (because she has similar coloring and lots of small spots).

[freshstart]

I love a happy ending!

[iris lilies]

Mamalatte, this dogs looks perfect! What a pretty lady! She's a nice size.

[awakenedsoul]

I couldn't find her. That's weird. I clicked on Adoptables. Maybe they took her photo down. Anyway... Congratualations! She sounds perfect. I'm glad to hear that she's so happy with you. I love mutts. I've had a few of them, and they have all had such great temperaments. Less health problems, too.

[iris lilies]

I couldn't find her. That's weird. I clicked on Adoptables. Maybe they took her photo down. Anyway... Congratualations! She sounds perfect. I'm glad to hear that she's so happy with you. I love mutts. I've had a few of them, and they have all had such great temperaments. Less health problems, too.

I saw her photo yesterday, but today it's gone.

[mamalatte]

Here is another link with a picture of her that might still work:

http://www.unclehenrys.com/classified/4522917/classified?back=%2Fsearch%2FPets%3Fsr%3D36711921%2 34522917

[mschrisgo2]

OMGosh! She is CUTE!! what a wonderful find!

[Aqua Blue]

do show dogs need to be unneutered? That in itself would be a deal breaker for me.

[freshstart]

I think they do because when I got my mini-dachshund fixed, the vet said his AKC papers were pretty much meaningless because he wouldn't be able to breed. Fine by me

[razz]

Love stories or threads about dogs that are wanted and cherished. Lovely little one and glad you found each other.

[iris lilies]

do show dogs need to be unneutered? That in itself would be a deal breaker for me.

Yes, to show in conformation the dogs are whole, they are not neutered or spayed. I'm not sure about performance competitions like Earth Dog Trials and Agility and Obedience, though, altered dogs might be permitted, I just don't know.

The cat world has separate classes for neutered cats that's why
I was able to show cats.

[Teacher Terry]

WE usually rescue but I did buy a show dog Maltese and it is so funny because she will lay down carefully and hold a pose after all these years. The other Maltese just flop down. My son refers to her as the uptown girl. She will dance in a circle when you sit on the toilet. The first thing I did was get her fixed. No way was I going to breed a 3lb dog or any dog for that matter. I have also found that mixed breeds are healthier. Congrats on your new addition!!

[iris lilies]

WE usually rescue but I did buy a show dog Maltese and it is so funny because she will lay down carefully and hold a pose after all these years. The other Maltese just flop down. My son refers to her as the uptown girl. She will dance in a circle when you sit on the toilet. The first thing I did was get her fixed. No way was I going to breed a 3lb dog or any dog for that matter. I have also found that mixed breeds are healthier. Congrats on your new addition!!

I know! My favorite pet bulldog of all times was gorgeous and smart and a former show dog.

Once we we took her to Bulldog nationals where we participated in the costume contest ( she was spayed by then and retired from the show ring.) I didn't realize it then, but she was "on""for the entire time when we stood around, then paraded around the ring, then stood some more., She never sat down because she knows you don't sit down in the ring, ever!

Only when we left the hotel ballroom and stood for a while in the hall did she lie down,exhausted. She actually started sleeping right there in the hall, which showed me how tired she was. Poor baby!

She had been holding her pose for hours.

[freshstart]

The first thing I did was get her fixed. No way was I going to breed a 3lb dog or any dog for that matter. I have also found that mixed breeds are healthier.

I have to google Maltese, I can't quite fathom a 3 lb dog! I thought Mitch was so small at 8 lbs

[Karma]

Mistake.