So much inferior stuff around.............(from China)

[CathyA]

This year, more than ever, I have been just dumbfounded at all the stuff coming from China. Even toothpicks! Even food! Along with everything else you can possibly think of. I would love to have one of those tabletop roaster ovens, but they're all made in China. Everything! I'm always so happy when I find something made in the U.S. How can we be confused why the middle class is disappearing, when everything we all want is made in a different country?
I mean seriously.........(I mentioned this the other day)......I was looking for shelled pumpkin seeds at the grocery store (Pepitas) and I was excited to find them..........but they were from China!! Is this because of some trade agreement thing? How absurd that we can't process our own herbs/seeds. I realize some things just can't be grown here (like Bananas)......but what's going on?
Maybe this should be on the politics forum?
A few things made in other countries is fine........but we're so dependent on China for just about everything. I mean seriously.........pumpkin seeds and toothpicks?? :(

[Williamsmith]

I was going to start a thread called, "Made In China" but you beat me to it. My point was ai was going to find something in my house made in China and throw it away. I if it needed replaced find something made elsewhere. I wondered how many days in a row I could do this.

[bae]

Is there something wrong with China?

[CathyA]

Oh Bae, you know what we mean.
There's nothing wrong with China. They work hard. They are confused, too, about why Americans love so much crap! They're over there probably getting lung diseases and cancers from the smog that's created by all the factories making all the crap we're clamoring for.
I don't know a lot about trade agreements, etc. But I like to liken things to a family. If I had family members out of work, not being able to afford insurance, food, medical treatment, etc..........and had folks in the next county make everything we needed......well, it would be really, really stupid.
Sometimes I wonder if other countries are getting stronger economically and they want all the things we want........so in order to have enough to go around, things need to be made more cheaply.
My main concern is that (besides there being so much poorly-made stuff that can't be fixed when it breaks), we keep thinking it's bad that our middle class is disappearing but where are they suppose to work to support themselves?

I think it would be cool to have a big box department store take everything out except the stuff made in the U.S. I think it would be laughable at how very little is left.....if anything.

[bae]

Sometimes I wonder if other countries are getting stronger economically and they want all the things we want........so in order to have enough to go around, things need to be made more cheaply.


I think a good part of the problem is that people aren't willing to pay what it would take to build the quality of product you are wishing for, made where you wish it to be made. If enough people act that way, it drives the quality goods completely out of the market. There are products that I would like to purchase these days that simply aren't made in volume by anyone, and if I want one, I have to commission someone to make it by hand, which is really expensive.

Go look at the axes and blacksmith hammers available at Home Depot. Pure junk, even the made-in-USA ones, for the most part.

I just tried to buy a homeowner's starter toolkit for a friend who just bought her first house - the quality of what is on the market through regular consumer channels is absurdly poor.

That is, I don't think it's a China issue.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Is there something wrong with China?

well yea, there's something wrong with the world. China has astounding levels of smog at this point to produce our junk, people in China are now buying multiple air purifiers and cranking them all day long just not to breathe the outside air which in some places reaches hazardous levels (which really isn't the case in the U.S. anymore). This is a crazy solution to the problem of air pollution! And I wonder about the conditions under which things are made, slave labor, brutal conditions etc. (though this is not always knowable for certain, and sometimes not entirely absent elsewhere). But have you ever seen anything fair trade from China? I can't recall ever having done so.

Now the products are often poorly made as well, would I trust Germany over China in careful construction or something - of course. But this is not always the case. There are well made things from China. If this was the only concern then it pays to research the particular product. And food has had known issues in the past (poisonous pet food etc.). Now this is no guarantee of future performance but being wary here is hardly entirely unreasonable.


I would love to have one of those tabletop roaster ovens, but they're all made in China.

yes and I do without in this case. Now I have electronics made in China, I don't elect to entirely opt out of the modern world and have no electronics which are so basic to it and it's not easy to avoid things made in China there. But a roaster oven, I can take it or leave it.

[Float On]

That is, I don't think it's a China issue.

This is a true. It's a demands issue. There is a documentary somewhere on how Wal-Mart almost put Rubbermaid (an American company) out of business due to their demands of "Hey, Rubbermaid, make your same product by lesser quality for this much less money"...every year.

[CathyA]

Yeah, and cheap stuff lets lots of people have things that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to have.........which leads to all sorts of other problems (resource depletion, garbage, etc.).

It's just all sad. Even companies that used to have great reputations for quality stuff, have it made elsewhere with cheaper goods now,
And what I'm seeing on some merchandise is "made in China and distributed in the USA. I suppose that fools some people.....

[CathyA]

I didn't get a roaster oven. I, of course, get lots of other things from China because that's all that's out there for a lot of things, but I never use China-made stuff for cooking or eating.

[bae]

I'm looking for a new toaster at the moment. The horror. There are 8 million different toasters available now, and they all seem like junk.

[CathyA]

There's a website online that is for telling you which appliances are made in the U.S.........and it has about 6 things and that's all. :(
I just bought a couple candy thermometers (they aren't actually CANDY thermometers)....haha.......and they are no doubt made elsewhere. But when they are made of metal, I guess I feel a little better.??

But lots of stuff has non-stick coating on it, and I just won't buy that. Life is just too dang complicated.

Good luck with finding a new toaster. Just when I think I've read enough reviews on things and am ready to buy something, I start reading horrible things about the product......or realize they were paid reviewers......and I have to start all over.
I hope Le Creuset doesn't start having their stuff made anywhere other than France. Oh darn.......I just googled it and some of it is made in Thailand now. :(

[ToomuchStuff]

Which toaster are you thinking about? The Darth Vader toaster from Thinkgeek, or the Bugatti Noun glass toaster, that you can cook steak with?:laff:

[CathyA]

And once you decide on a toaster, don't forget the grilled cheese bags:
http://www.uncommongoods.com/product/toaster-grilled-cheese-bags
They're made from Teflon and woven glass fiber. :0!

[Williamsmith]

Besides that fact that it's cheap and made in China.....it's also toxic.

[rodeosweetheart]

I just paid more for the Rowenta iron that was still made in Germany. The lower priced models are now made in China.

I try to look for things made in America, too--like Redwing shoes, and Wigwam socks, for example. Most of our stuff we buy used.

[rodeosweetheart]

Bae, for the toaster, you could buy a Dualit, made in England.

We used to have one we got at the Goodwill. It was pretty nice, as I recall. Willliams Sonoma sells them.

I don't have any problems with things made in England or Ireland, as my ancestry dna showed 66% British Isles plus 19% Irish. So I figure I was made there, too. The other percent was Swiss and German, thus my iron.

[kib]

Don't blame China. I get what you're saying, but it's not Chinese companies producing this plethora of garbage, it's multinationals and US companies manufacturing in the country of China, using cheap Chinese labor and cheap Chinese resources and cheap 'nation-less' shortcuts because that's what we want, CHEAP. Perhaps not you and I, but apparently that is what the Trash of America is enticed by: junk so shoddy the picture on the box doesn't even look like quality. The older I get, the more there is to buy ... and the less there is to buy, if I'm seeking satisfaction with my purchase.

[Williamsmith]

I think a good part of the problem is that people aren't willing to pay what it would take to build the quality of product you are wishing for, made where you wish it to be made. If enough people act that way, it drives the quality goods completely out of the market. There are products that I would like to purchase these days that simply aren't made in volume by anyone, and if I want one, I have to commission someone to make it by hand, which is really expensive.

Go look at the axes and blacksmith hammers available at Home Depot. Pure junk, even the made-in-USA ones, for the most part.

I just tried to buy a homeowner's starter toolkit for a friend who just bought her first house - the quality of what is on the market through regular consumer channels is absurdly poor.

That is, I don't think it's a China issue.

Bae, About axes. There are some really great axes available at garage sales and flea markets. Some really quality steel you can sharpen and will keep an edge. You have to look for vintage. My last find was a "Warren" axe head that I rehandled with Kentucky hickory. Choose a handle that has the grain running properly or make one yourself and fit it to the axe head. All the axes you find in box stores are junk from China made with scrap steel that was shipped over from USA and sold back to us.

[ToomuchStuff]

Bae, About axes. There are some really great axes available at garage sales and flea markets. Some really quality steel you can sharpen and will keep an edge. You have to look for vintage. My last find was a "Warren" axe head that I rehandled with Kentucky hickory. Choose a handle that has the grain running properly or make one yourself and fit it to the axe head. All the axes you find in box stores are junk from China made with scrap steel that was shipped over from USA and sold back to us.

For those of us on the mainland, garage sales and flea markets are a good thing. I doubt he has as much opportunity for those on the island he lives on.

[bae]

For those of us on the mainland, garage sales and flea markets are a good thing. I doubt he has as much opportunity for those on the island he lives on.

But Williamsmith is spot-on. The vintage stuff is well worth tracking down. Luckily EBay works for this as well, though sellers are usually aware of what they have so the prices are "fair" not "bargain".

[lessisbest]

More food for thought.... Even if something is made (or assembled) in the U.S.A., the components that it takes to make the "widget" are probably from China as well. We have very few mills making cloth anymore here in the U.S., so even clothing made in the U.S. are probably made with fabric from China. It would be nearly impossible to avoid imports from China.

Perhaps if the Federal Government wouldn't tax businesses into oblivion, they would bring manufacturing, and all those jobs, back to America.

[SteveinMN]

Perhaps if the Federal Government wouldn't tax businesses into oblivion, they would bring manufacturing, and all those jobs, back to America.
With an effective corporate tax rate among the lowest of the most-developed nations, I don't think "taxation into oblivion" is the problem. Unless the American public really has a hard time with having clean air and water and with not treating employees totally like day labor. bae is right -- most people just don't want to pay what it costs to build things in the U.S.

The prevalence of "cheap crap from China" is partly our problem and partly theirs. As others have mentioned, demand for more stuff at non-increasing prices encourages suppliers to move to lower-cost countries (like China). A company wishing to sell a widget for less than anyone else must either take costs out of their own margin or that of their suppliers. They don't do it completely out of their own margin. So the supplier is pushed to observe special terms (driving up their costs) and pare away at the price at which they sell their product. Shareholders pushing for ever-greater quarterly growth and profits also exert a strong push. And, courtesy of defined-contribution retirement plans and an active equities market, lots of us are shareholders even if we don't like to think we are.

China has become a center for cheap mass production as it has an infrastructure and economic environment and the raw materials to facilitate it. China also has long proved resistant to notions like intellectual property protection and has a long history of dangerous cost-cutting (adulterated food, cars that essentially implode on impact,...). But changes in its own economy and population will force China to some sort of reckoning; they will not be able to suppress labor and environmental improvements forever or to operate their economy in a vacuum. The inexorable push to profits will move sourcing now taking place in China to another less-encumbered location -- perhaps Vietnam or Thailand; perhaps Africa or the Middle East. Rinse and repeat.

All that said, the Chinese are capable of making some of the best products on earth. So much of a product's quality is not driven by those building the product but by the ones managing the activity. The Hondas built in Marysville, Ohio, are as good as Hondas built anywhere (and, in fact, some are exported to Japan) -- because Honda management wants it that way. There is no reason a product made in China cannot be as good as one made anywhere else. Volvo and Buick (neither low-end brands) plan to sell Chinese-made models in the U.S. in 2016; it will be interesting to see the reception they get in the market. China also has a nascent industry in super-high-end audio, and while lower-tier manufacturers are grinding out sound systems which will see a landfill in just a few years, some careful manufacturers are selling well-regarded no-compromise items for tens of thousands of dollars apiece.

But the money talks the loudest. And as long as the world wants ever more stuff regardless of quality or its longevity or its total carbon cost, we'll continue to see a stream of cheap products from wherever the profit can be made. Right now that's China.

[JaneV2.0]

Maybe people aren't willing to pay more for products made here because their wages have been stagnant for thirty years. A win-win for corporations.