Herniated Discs and Solutions

[Williamsmith]

I searched first and read a few older threads that were posted several years ago so I am bringing a familiar health topic up again.

I herniated the L4 and L5 discs in my back. Symptoms are more severe than the MRI would appear. I am six weeks out from the injury and I was managing with just physical therapy but a couple days ago I regressed and now the pain is debilitating.

Early on I saw a neurosurgeon who I trust and he advised me that surgery was not indicated yet. I am scheduled to see a neurologist but not for 5 more weeks.

I met with my general practitioner and was advised to get a spinal steroid injection to relieve the symptoms and reduce the swelling on the nerve. I get that in a week.

Anyone with experience specifically with L4 and L5 ruptures?

I'm looking for some positive reinforcement here. The good news is I do have good insurance, and I have time to heal since my seasonal job just ended.

But I am used to being very active and this has gotten me frustrated.

[freshstart]

my dad has a disease in which the discs slowly turn into bone, it is very painful and he has had more herniated and ruptured discs than I can count. A new neurosurgeon moved to the area, he does advanced injections and management to delay surgery. When surgery becomes necessary, he is amazing, back surgery that actually works! My dad just finished his 6th one, he's up and walking that night, very little pain, he can actually turn his head side to side now with no pain. When he comes home he is independent except for no bending. He has to wear a heavy duty brace that prevents bending and holds him in line, that's kind of a pain but the brace also comes with an attachment that stimulates stem cell production in the bone. I believe it's microsurgery, but I forget just now. I swear, he is physically 10 yrs back in the disease process, he can do things physically now that he had not done in 10yrs. Before this guy, he was bounced back and forth between neurosurgeons and ortho, both saying there was not much they could do because of the disease and he'd get a token shot of steroids that did nothing. If you live near even a small city like me, you should be able to find someone like him, I would think. He has changed my dad's life immensely. I am going to PM you his website if it gives out more specific info about things you could at least ask your doc about. Good luck!

[Gardnr]

With worsening symptoms, call the Neurosurgeon who said "no surgery". NO injection-don't mask this symptom. What you do NOT need is permanent dropfoot or debilitating long-term pain.

Were you given PT exercised to take care of and strengthen your back muscles?

DH blew a disc 4y ago. I took him to my favorite neurosurgeon (yes, I'm an OR RN). He said "it will likely resolve in 6m with good care. We can do an MRI but if you won't do surgery (because I know this is what's wrong), then let's not waste your money." DH went home, did back exercises and sure enough, it is completely resolved. He gets achyness if he skips the back exercises/stretches and then he simply goes back to doing them daily.

[Gardnr]

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/multimedia/back-pain/sls-20076265

[kib]

C6-C7, 2011. I have to admit I basically did nothing but lie on the couch and take gabapentin for about 4 months. By the time I finally got an appointment with an Expert it was already feeling a bit better, and it has basically resolved itself. My left arm is still more prone to numbness and crazy tingling, but it's become bearable/unusual. I never would have believed it, given the level of pain when it began.

[Williamsmith]

I was seeming to be making progress with some press up type exercises. However,we took it to a level I wasn't ready for apparently when shortly after a strenuous pt session I started regressing, pain and numbness. So I cancelled pt until after the steroid injection. The point is not to mask symptoms...it's to reduce the swelling causing the pain, at least that's my take on it. But I have yet to talk with the actual doctor who is scheduled to do this.

This is has been an ongoing issue for at least ten years, maybe more . My chairopractor has been keeping me in the game up until now. But I'm afraid to let him touch me. I also found out I have a herniated disc in my neck with a couple minor bone spurs. I know when this happened but I never sought any treatment. Just stiff necked it for a couple weeks.

I have been on gabapentin since the outset as well as an anti inflammatory. I have come a long way in six weeks from lying flat on my back in the ER with IV dilaudid. Three days in the hospital weaning myself off and finally being able to walk a mile or so without too much pain on a good day. But I find the pain and numbness to be unacceptable. I have too many things I'd rather be doing.

[JaneV2.0]

When I move my neck I'm entertained by a symphony of castanet, gravel, and sandpaper sounds. I take that to mean there's some kind of debris in there. But it doesn't hurt, so yay me.

I hope you continue to make progress with PT and time (the great healer). Aging is such a gas.

[Williamsmith]

I am three days out from my cortisone injection. It was a little more uncomfortable going in than I expected but there has been a noticeable improvement in pain reduction and athleticism when walking. I also have more tolerance to sitting on hard surfaces and standing longer periods of time.

I am scheduled in ten more days for a follow up injection. Based on the response I have from that, I will have a third injection held in reserve for a month or so down the road. If I keep,improving, I could see myself going back to work albeit one less likely to reinjure my back. I think my days of heavy lifting and bouncing around on farm tractors are over. I could see myself in a low impact security role somewhere. Or prior to my retirement The District Attorney was considering adding an investigator to his office.

The doctor who delivered the injection said something about stenosis and that narrowing of the nerve channel. I need to get a clarification on that and see if that is an actual diagnosis. I don't know.

[freshstart]

Good news on the injection. Spinal stenosis is real:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/spinal-stenosis/basics/definition/con-20036105

hope you can get back to work

[Williamsmith]

It's hard to know for sure what she (the doctor) meant. At the time I was laying on my stomach with my pants halfway down my butt. The fluid she was injecting was quite uncomfortable and I was tightening up my back and butt muscles involuntarily. She made the remark about stenosis being the cause of her having to slow down and take her time with the injection. Afterward I never got clarification ......totally forgot to ask but I made sure I got my pants pulled back up. I was in a little bit of a vulnerable position to say the least.

They had a machine that looked like this big X-ray machine shaped in a circle but portable on wheels that they rolled over me during the process so that she could see where the needle was in my spine. Thanks for the link. Mayo clinic site gives nice concise reviews without scaring the hell out of you.

I need to work to supplement my income but more for my personal self worth. I could survive without but then every year more has to be made from less as none of my income is subject to any kind of raise or adjustments to inflation. And I will not get social security....ever. So living simply is not just a theoretical game, it's a must.

[gmpg54]

My 36 year old daughter was an EMT and a stretcher incident lead her to the herniation of the same 2 discs as you.
So far 2 surgeries,one was a laminectomy,pain continued,becoming more severe depending on activity level.
2nd surgery was last year,better relief but still having significant pain,next step will be a fusion,neuro is trying to hold out as long as possible due to her age.
There is one thing to be aware of,the neurosurgeon brought it to light looking at her MRI,its called cauda equina. I believe the discs can compress the spinal column and cause paralysis,apparently the warning signs are incontinence of bladder and bowel.
Hope your neuro mentioned this,no one we knew had ever heard of it and everyone was running to google it.

[Williamsmith]

The more I research, the less I know. The only fact I know is, last resort.....surgery because outcomes are a toss up. So after more than a week removed from the injection of corticosteroid I can report this. The constant ache and pain in my hip, quad and shin are near totally gone. I only feel it when I overdo by lifting or walking too far. The feet still numbness and tingling but I have been relieved to the point that I can get along each day relatively uninterrupted. I also don't feel so subject to cold temperatures. And the legs themselves are stronger. I don't worry as much about my knees buckling.

A second follow up injection scheduled for five days from now.

cauda equina.....that's some scary stuff there. The first week after my injury had some real struggles but eventually I was able to improve but I can totally see losing control of bowel and urine function as an emergency and hope to never worry about that.

[Williamsmith]

Returned for a second injection. Repeat of the first. I described my relief from the first injection as 50%or more. I am hoping to experience a total recovery of feeling in my feet. This will assist in manuevering on uneven surfaces and in climbing up and down steps, ladders and inclined planes. I a, also hoping to be able to sleep on my left side without my leg and foot going numb. It has been a challenge getting through the night without waking up with some pain. Hoping this leads to not relying on pain medicine to get back to sleep. All in all, hopeful about the future and recovery.

[freshstart]

I'm glad to hear this

[Williamsmith]

So it's been two weeks since the second epidural injection of steroids. I am able to go about daily activities with out great pain. No more constant ache with intermittent stabbing pain. But the numbness in the feet is stubborn to leave. Not a lot of activity to do which I could take as a sign things are improving. The weather makes it extremely hard to get out and walk. But generally I feel like I'm making progress. I have to say though, the more people,I talk to the more bad outcomes I have reported. One guy told me after two surgeries and fourteen epidural injections he still has one leg that is numb and takes four Vicodin a day just to bare the pain. I have been off pain meds for a week and am glad of it.

[freshstart]

just make sure that you tell the doc that the numbness is still present, that is important for them to know. Glad you are feeling better.

[Williamsmith]

just make sure that you tell the doc that the numbness is still present, that is important for them to know. Glad you are feeling better.

Well, finally got in to see the Neurologist. I'm to the point where when anyone new comes into the picture I know I will have a lengthy explanation of how I got in this condition. So after some catching him up on things he got around to an examination. My left foot is obviously weak and dropping a bit. Couldn't do the walk and turn test without falling to my left off balance. He did get reflex though which encouraged me. Diagnosis....drop foot. Scheduled a test called EMG/NCV. Stick pins in your leg and glue wire to you to measure muscle and nerve function and conductivity. I hear it's not comfortable. I haven't bitched and moaned at anyone so news my chance I guess.

I am am beginning to feel like the insurance company and the doctors are conspiring to drag this thing out as long as possible so they can all get a piece of the pie. I can't get a follow up appointment until March 15. Until then, I was sent back to PT.

Off of all pain meds except Tylenol. Finally.

[freshstart]

IMHO the EMG for drop foot sounds like a standard plan but not making you wait 6 weeks. I've had one several times, it's not comfortable but not so horrible that you remember it years later and say "never again" or anything.

[citrine]

I have had the same thing...herniation of L4 and L5 after a bad car accident. It is painful, but I got better with Yoga, Chiropractic adjustments, and massage therapy. It does act up when I have been lax in my stretches or work on too many clients without giving myself enough rest, but it is totally manageable.

[Williamsmith]

freshstart....thanks for the good news on the testing. The test is tomorrow....the follow up appointment ...in six weeks.

citrine.......I have a trusted chiropractor I have used for many years. I haven't used traditional medicine for about thirty years, save an antibiotic here and there. I am disappointed with the time it is taking for recovery but today i walked three miles ....the longest yet in three months. Thanks for the encouragement.

[freshstart]

good luck tomorrow! I'm glad it's not the test in 6 weeks, but the follow up

[freshstart]

all you need to know about foot drop:

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/foot-drop-causes-symptoms-treatments

the biggest thing is not to ignore it and you didn't and you caught it early, yay!

[Williamsmith]

Well, I had the EMG/NCV test today. Okay so I arrive early, get parked in the garage and head for the bathroom before registration. There is no line so right up to the receptionist I go. She says "Name." I tell her who I am and what I am there for and reach into my pocket for my wallet. I need to provide my ID and insurance card. Trouble is the wallet is nowhere to be found. The receptionist looks at me like I'm from outer space when I excuse myself and tell her I think my wallet is in the bathroom. She says, "Okay, you aren't on the list anyway."

Now I'm double pissed. Not only am I incompetent......so is the hospital. I hustle back to the bathroom and look where I know it should be. Nothing. I mean I was gone just a couple minutes. I'm baffled. So I do the only reasonable thing. I take off my shoes, and pants and for some reason my wallet drops out of the bottom of my pants. I can't explain it but I have no time to contemplated the stupidity of it. I hustle back to registration. Heart beating a little faster and palms a little more clammy than the first time.

This time I am lucky enough to get a different receptionist. The other one is tied up with another patient. So I tell her my name and what I'm here for. My insurance card and ID are in hand and my wallet is making a nice bulge in my right front pocket where I can keep an eye on it. Of course, she responds, "You aren't on the list." Then she looks at me in an accusatory way as if to say, "My job sucks enough buddy, I don't need stupid people showing up when they aren't scheduled to make my day suck more."

I am nothing if not always prepared for the worst. I took with me the documents the neurologist provided last week and it just happened to have the request for the test. Well, that opened up pandoras box. She got a supervisor, a phone call was made. A suggestion that I come back another time was nixed because of how far I had travelled and a half hearted apology later......I was told to stand by.

Well, I finally made it to the procedure room ...although by that time I just wanted to drive a few miles down to the casino and play some poker with some not so friendly card sharks.

After some uncomfortable taser like tests and about a dozen or so needles stuck into various muscle groups, a verdict was rendered. I have some damage to the peroneal from the knee down to the toe but it is healing and should continue to do so as long as I'm careful. There was no evidence of any disease or major issues requiring any further treatment.

I drove home and celebrated by going to the movies and watching the most vulgar movie I could find. Dirty Grandpa.

[nswef]

What good news after a frustrating day. I'm glad for you.

[freshstart]

I am relieved at your good news.

I lose and find, lose and find all over my town. Last week at a doc's I noticed a coat that looked like one I have but is too small right now. Look at the label and it is one size down. I ask the receptionist if it belongs to anyone, she says it's a lost and found from last winter. I found it, a year later, lol, my gloves still in the pocket. But the feeling of losing your wallet is the worst!

[rosarugosa]

Glad you got good news and found your wallet too! My 81-year-old mother saw that movie and was mortified! :)

[Williamsmith]

Glad you got good news and found your wallet too! My 81-year-old mother saw that movie and was mortified! :)

Is she seeking therapy?

[Williamsmith]

I am two months removed from my first cortisone back injection. There has been a continued improvement in condition to where I now believe I will be able to return to working when spring finally gets here. Although I have told them I won't be working on heavy lifting or operating the farm tractor and attachments. I pretty much want to limit my hours to about 20 and just mow the greens.

I have been in physical therapy twice a week for a month and this has helped tremendously in strengthening my left leg. I walked three miles easily today at a good pace and in 25 degree temperature. The numbness is not completely gone but nerve damage is very slow to heal. I feel very vulnerable to overdoing it when it comes to lifting. But there are certain ways to get things done by yourself if you plan ahead and think things out instead of reverting to old bad habits.

I was shocked by the neurologists bill to the insurance company for the nerve and muscle test. Everything was itemized and totaled over $3000. I was further shocked to see that the claim was denied. After some conversation with a representative it looks like the wrong diagnosis was submitted so it will probably be resubmitted and processed again.

It will soon be four months since my injury. Easily the longest recovery I have ever endured. The hardest part was that it took me out of the woods for most of the hunting season and I will not have enough venison to make it until next year. I missed just being in the stillness of the winter woods.

I have also spent a good part of the winter in solitude reading in front of a fire. I have been relearning a lot of what I forgot about myself. I might be able to share some thoughts on solitude in a different thread. Not sure I can use words well enough to do that properly. But solitude and simplicity seem to go hand in hand.

[freshstart]

I am so glad to read all of this, especially the last paragraph

[Williamsmith]

Yesterday, I graduated from physical therapy. I will be able to continue working exercises at my gym on my own and with much more flexibility at my own convenience. I won't be paying the deductible for every visit now also which is somehow a healing sign in itself. I am very thankful for the team of professionals at physical therapy whose knowledge guided me and strengthened me and got me back on the road to normalville. I have a new respect for those who work in this field as I was able to witness their patience and hard work with others. Children, elderly, joint replacement patients, all manner of debilitating injuries. I would personally recommend the use of PT if it is available.

I also want to thank those of you who said a word of encouragement to me here. It is very hard for me to write such personal details but you made it easier and it was therapy in and of itself. There were times early on when faith and hope we're the only threads I could grasp onto.

Yesterday I enjoyed a three mile walk and was able to step out in confidence and at a nice pace. I was able to enjoy my surroundings instead of concentrate on not hurting myself. I ran into a fellow who was training his young hound dog on the trail. That dog would take off down the trail at a lope and get maybe a quarter mile out when his owner would yell, "Bo!" That dog would turn on a dime and trot right back. He'd get a grand petting when he got there and then be sent off again. I am jealous of the bond between that man and his dog. There was beauty in the way that dog ran.

[Ultralight]

Yesterday, I graduated from physical therapy.

That is excellent news! :)

[freshstart]

that's what we're here for and I liked hearing your updates

you talk about dogs a lot, do you have one? you've probably said it a bunch of times, mush brain today

[Williamsmith]

that's what we're here for and I liked hearing your updates

you talk about dogs a lot, do you have one? you've probably said it a bunch of times, mush brain today

You may recall, I had a golden retriever for 11 years. She was as good a friend as a dog can be. I took her to the vet because she wouldn't get up one morning. I thought it would be a simple matter of perhaps an antibiotic or maybe just an overnight stay in the hospital. But when the vet came out to the waiting room I knew it was bad news. She had developed terminal cancer and as it was put to me.......she will suffer even more in the days to come. So I cradled her in between my folded legs and watched her injected with a blue purple fluid. She stared into my eyes just before going limp and I still to this day do not know how to interpret her eyes.

I have seen humans die, I have seen the aftermath of death in all manner of ways.....But this I have decided I cannot do again. So I do not own or care for a dog at this time.

[sweetana3]

My hubby leaves that issue to me. I take them to the vet and deal with it. Three cats in the last 2 years. However, I would never give up having the constant companionship and fun of our cats. We give them a great life and hopefully a peaceful death when necessary.

[freshstart]

You may recall, I had a golden retriever for 11 years. She was as good a friend as a dog can be. I took her to the vet because she wouldn't get up one morning. I thought it would be a simple matter of perhaps an antibiotic or maybe just an overnight stay in the hospital. But when the vet came out to the waiting room I knew it was bad news. She had developed terminal cancer and as it was put to me.......she will suffer even more in the days to come. So I cradled her in between my folded legs and watched her injected with a blue purple fluid. She stared into my eyes just before going limp and I still to this day do not know how to interpret her eyes.

I have seen humans die, I have seen the aftermath of death in all manner of ways.....But this I have decided I cannot do again. So I do not own or care for a dog at this time.

now I remember, that was such a heartbreaking story, sorry, I need cues sometimes to remember some things

[JaneV2.0]

I'm gun shy, too. I had three elderly cats, and they all died over a period of a couple of years. One nearly died in my arms, one crept away and died alone, and my boy had to be put down. So now I get my feline fix vicariously.

[freshstart]

it's so hard, in this house pets are family. One of the worst parts of this memory nonsense is I wake up not 100% in the here and now. I will wake up in the middle of the night, realize my mini-dachshund is not sleeping curled up behind my knees and I freak out looking for him, because he could never get up or down from the bed himself. I get frantic thinking I left him outside. Then someone hears me and reminds me he has been gone for 4 years and I cry all over again and I re-grieve him, if that's even possible. they break your heart but I can't imagine my life without one.

I have the best shelter dog in the world, Bernice, who was sick and scared, abused when I saw her at the shelter. I went into drop off dog food, swore I would not look at the dogs. Totally looked at the dogs. I sat outside her cage because she had made eye contact with me and I knew she was coming home with me. I did my computer stuff for work just sitting there occasionally tossing out treats. By the second hour she was on my lap. She had been there 5 months, no one every looked at her because well, she was a mess, unsocialized and she had a tick borne disease from the South (totally curable). It took many months to earn her trust and now she never leaves my side. Someone can be cooking a steak and she stays by me. When I was on bedrest for months, there she was 24/7, she had to be pulled out to go outside and eat. And she does not tolerate strangers well, if we had a break-in, they would leave petrified, she can be scary to others. But I had a point, oh, I get her Bday card from the vet every year and I always cry because now she is 13 or 14. I've never had a dog live past 15. But she is spry and healthy and frankly, I'm counting on her hitting 20 no matter how ridiculous that sounds. This dog will lie heaviest in my heart.

[freshstart]

there is probably a 100% chance that I have told my Bernice story before, sorry!

[iris lilies]

there is probably a 100% chance that I have told my Bernice story before, sorry!

It's FINE. I like hearing the same pet stories and besides I don't exactly remember Bernice's story.

[JaneV2.0]

I don't think you did; it's new to me--and I love rescue stories. As the question goes--who rescued whom?

[freshstart]

I may have physically rescued her, but she has rescued me ten-fold

[Williamsmith]

I have continued my exercise and stretching routine. The local hospital built a brand new facility that houses physical therapy, orthopedic medicine, radiology and the YMCA gym all just about a mile from my home. I go to the Y three times a week for an hour and a half. Lots of core exercise, stretching and lower body strengthening. I always feel better afterward. I am getting stronger.

I met with my neurologist. He was very positive about my regaining complete function of my left leg and foot patterns. I was able to perform well on tests that I failed prior to physical therapy. We discussed gradually coming off the gabapentin and meloxicam. No follow ups scheduled.

And I met with my primary physician. He was pleased with my progress. He gave me a schedule for reducing gabapentin and meloxicam to where I can try to eliminate them both. A week in and I can already notice more alertness and less sleepiness. I am also having fewer nightmares but still many dreams that wake me up about three to four hours into my night.

We also discussed my returning to work at the golf course. He recommended against it and I struggled with making a decision for awhile. I finally decided not to go back just based on risk and reward analysis. I don't do it for the money and I don't ever want to regress back to the way I was. The other day I picked up a fishing license. I like the idea of being able to catch and release.

Ive never been faced with a health problem that demanded such patience, was day to day and threatened my ability to enjoy life to its fullest. It has challenged me to exercise parts of myself that have been dormant for a long time. In an ironic way, it has made me a better rounded person. Especially the part of me that wants to insist on independence and the part of me that realizes how close we all are to total dependence on the graciousness of others. I have been humbled but not perfected. I have learned that pain can be managed but kind of like you manage an attack by a vicious dog. It's going to get its licks in but you don't have to give up, you can fight back and survive.