Article: Americans support religious freedom for Christians, but not Muslims

[Ultralight]

Disclaimer: Discussion of this topic could result in being offended. Being offended is often a side-effect of free speech. The best way to cope with being offended is to be an adult about it.

Anyway, here is the link.

http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2015/12/americans_support_religious_fr.html

[LDAHL]

It doesn't help that the title of the article (and your post) are a bit misleading and incendiary. Substantial majorities of the respondents supported religious freedom for both Christians and Muslims (82% and 61% respectively). From that, the conclusion is drawn that "Americans do not support religious freedom for Muslims."

I'm more offended by the innumeracy of the piece than any implications of bigotry.

[Ultralight]

It doesn't help that the title of the article (and your post) are a bit misleading and incendiary. Substantial majorities of the respondents supported religious freedom for both Christians and Muslims (82% and 61% respectively). From that, the conclusion is drawn that "Americans do not support religious freedom for Muslims."

I'm more offended by the innumeracy of the piece than any implications of bigotry.

Media corporations gotta pay the bills, man!

And I gotta bust up the unbearable ennui! ;)

[LDAHL]

Media corporations gotta pay the bills, man!

And I gotta bust up the unbearable ennui! ;)

The best way to cope with ennui is to be an adult about it.

[Ultralight]

The best way to cope with ennui is to be an adult about it.

Valid point.

[LDAHL]

However, often the best way to cope with adulthood is to be childish about it. There are a lot of grey areas; and I'm not just talking about my hair.

[Ultralight]

However, often the best way to cope with adulthood is to be childish about it. There are a lot of grey areas; and I'm not just talking about my hair.

I imagine you at about age 63. So having grey hair is totally acceptable.

I am 36 and I am just starting to get grey.

[LDAHL]

I imagine you at about age 63. So having grey hair is totally acceptable.

I am 36 and I am just starting to get grey.

It does beat the alternative.

[Ultralight]

It does beat the alternative.

Going bald? lol

I am doing that too. :doh:


First-world problems, for sure. :)

[LDAHL]

First-world problems, for sure. :)

I had that same thought just the other day, when I caught myself cursing because I couldn't get the Bluetooth connection between my wife's phone and her new car to work.

[Ultralight]

Yeah, I know people who'd love to have my problems. haha

[iris lilies]

I imagine you at about age 63. So having grey hair is totally acceptable.

I am 36 and I am just starting to get grey.

He's not that old. I suspect he's closer to your age UL than you think.

[Ultralight]

He's not that old. I suspect he's closer to your age UL than you think.

Haha...

I am not asking him.

[Ultralight]

I have this image in my mind of what LDAHL is like.

I don't want to change it! lol

[LDAHL]

He's not that old. I suspect he's closer to your age UL than you think.

Some people say I was born middle-aged.

[LDAHL]

I have this image in my mind of what LDAHL is like.

I don't want to change it! lol

That's why people never like the movie as much as the book.

[Ultralight]

My imagined portrait of LDAHL (not to be taken seriously):

63, silver hair, thin. A dignified New England accent. Works in finance. He has a much younger, very traditional wife. He plays tennis, chess, and smokes the occasional cigar. Favorite movie: The Sand Pebbles (Steve McQueen!). Favorite music: Classical, though he enjoys Motown when no one is looking. He has seen every episode of Gunsmoke.

[JaneV2.0]

Some people say I was born middle-aged.

I admit I think that about most conservatives...:devil:

[happystuff]

Interesting article, but I would love to actually see the actual statistics - demographics polled as well as the specific questions and responses - as I get a sense that the article author may have modified the wording with regards to some of the findings.

"Greg Scott of the Alliance Defending Freedom, a Christian public interest law firm, said a focus on protecting Christians right now "makes sense in that Christians today are facing mounting threats to their religious liberty by acts of state officials and bureaucrats.""

I'm also wondering what Christian "religious liberties" are being threatened... is it same sex marriage? If so, how is it threatening Christians? They are like everyone else - if a Christian doesn't want to be in a same-sex marriage, he/she doesn't have to!

[LDAHL]

My imagined portrait of LDAHL (not to be taken seriously):

63, silver hair, thin. A dignified New England accent. Works in finance. He has a much younger, very traditional wife. He plays tennis, chess, and smokes the occasional cigar. Favorite movie: The Sand Pebbles (Steve McQueen!). Favorite music: Classical, though he enjoys Motown when no one is looking. He has seen every episode of Gunsmoke.

I speak in the mellifluous twangs and gutturals of the Upper Midwest. My wife is about as traditional as a selfie stick. My favorite movies would include True Grit, The Fatal Glass of Beer and North by Northwest. My preference in music runs more to 1950s hard bop, and I've seen every episode of The Rockford Files more than once.

[Ultralight]

I speak in the mellifluous twangs and gutturals of the Upper Midwest. My wife is about as traditional as a selfie stick. My favorite movies would include True Grit, The Fatal Glass of Beer and North by Northwest. My preference in music runs more to 1950s hard bop, and I've seen every episode of The Rockford Files more than once.

That's great! :)

[LDAHL]

I admit I think that about most conservatives...:devil:

I don’t disagree with you. I’ve often thought of conservatism as the more mature philosophy because of it’s recognition of the limitations and constraints on both government and the human condition itself. It makes a much greater distinction between the personal and the political, and does not view mankind as infinitely malleable and perfectible. I would not, however go as far as P.J. O’Rourke, who said, “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”

[JaneV2.0]

I don’t disagree with you. I’ve often thought of conservatism as the more mature philosophy because of it’s recognition of the limitations and constraints on both government and the human condition itself. It makes a much greater distinction between the personal and the political, and does not view mankind as infinitely malleable and perfectible. I would not, however go as far as P.J. O’Rourke, who said, “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”

I would posit that the great leaps forward in history were rarely instigated by conservatives for just that reason. No imagination, passion, vision, often over-fond of authority... They seem to have such a sour, dyspeptic view of life. Gross generalization, I know. We need both kinds of thinking for balance, though--and occasionally conservatives do have a point. :thankyou:

[LDAHL]

I would posit that the great leaps forward in history were rarely instigated by conservatives for just that reason. No imagination, passion, vision, often over-fond of authority... They seem to have such a sour, dyspeptic view of life. Gross generalization, I know. We need both kinds of thinking for balance, though--and occasionally conservatives do have a point. :thankyou:

That's probably true. When a Bernie Sanders comes along promising to produce $18 trillion worth of loaves and fishes by sacrificing a few billionaires on the altar of equality, conservatives spoil the party by questioning his math. By and large, they are suspicious of "great leaps forward" offered at the expense of centuries of hard-won incremental gains. In many ways, at least in the current American configuration, they are more the anti-authoritarian party, frustrating the ambitions of would-be messiahs who feel they have the right to dictate sweeping changes because their hierophants have declared them to be "on the right side of history". And I believe that serves an essential purpose. Who would want to live in a country ruled by naive, idealistic young people, where passion dictates to experience?

[JaneV2.0]

That's probably true. When a Bernie Sanders comes along promising to produce $18 trillion worth of loaves and fishes by sacrificing a few billionaires on the altar of equality, conservatives spoil the party by questioning his math. By and large, they are suspicious of "great leaps forward" offered at the expense of centuries of hard-won incremental gains. In many ways, at least in the current American configuration, they are more the anti-authoritarian party, frustrating the ambitions of would-be messiahs who feel they have the right to dictate sweeping changes because their hierophants have declared them to be "on the right side of history". And I believe that serves an essential purpose. Who would want to live in a country ruled by naive, idealistic young people, where passion dictates to experience?

Who would want to live in a theocracy, or a country run by bankers?

[Ultralight]

Who would want to live in a theocracy, or a country run by bankers?

There are 300 million people living in the US. I think most of them want to live here.

[ApatheticNoMore]

ah yes the human beings are never allowed to be human beings with real human attachments to other human beings but only political animals reasoning. They must choose where they live based purely on politics (the personal must always be subordinated to the political) and not on actually having connections with people or places. It's true political conditions might become so intolerable that they leave everything to escape them, but that's like war torn Syria, while the U.S. may be pretty bad politically, it's not quite at that level for many people.

[LDAHL]

Who would want to live in a theocracy, or a country run by bankers?

I doubt even the Iranians and the Swiss want that. And I don't doubt some people who refer to themselves as conservative fit the stereotype so often promulgated by left-wing polemicists. But that doesn't refute the basic philosophy any more than ISIS invalidates Islam. Since (arguably) Edmund Burke kicked off modern conservatism with Reflections on the Revolution in France, up to the time Communism killed upwards of 100 million people, I think a pretty cogent argument can be made against the advisability of "great leaps forward".

[LDAHL]

ah yes the human beings are never allowed to be human beings with real human attachments to other human beings but only political animals reasoning. They must choose where they live based purely on politics (the personal must always be subordinated to the political) and not on actually having connections with people or places. It's true political conditions might become so intolerable that they leave everything to escape them, but that's like war torn Syria, while the U.S. may be pretty bad politically, it's not quite at that level for many people.

Or all the blowhards who threaten to emigrate whenever they're displeased by some development would do so.

[Ultralight]

Or all the blowhards who threaten to emigrate whenever they're displeased by some development would do so.

If emigrating to Canada was easy I'd do it!

[LDAHL]

If emigrating to Canada was easy I'd do it!

For the politics or the fishing?

[Ultralight]

For the politics or the fishing?

I hear it is an ice fisher's dream up there! :)

[LDAHL]

I hear it is an ice fisher's dream up there! :)

Now there's an activity I could never understand the attraction of.

[Ultralight]

Now there's an activity I could never understand the attraction of.

I know. haha

I am not sure why I am drawn to it. I have never done it. It does not get quite cold enough here in Columbus, OH. The ice is too risky.

But I like the idea of being out in some near-blizzard, bundled up in about 15 layers jigging some slab bluegills and crappies. :)
Crazy, I know!

Okay, I will not longer sidetrack this discussion!

You all carry on. :)

[The Storyteller]

I think most folks support religious freedom for Muslims, although it appears a sizable minority do not. Nonbelievers. on the other hand... well, at least one very important individual is skeptical regarding their First Amendment rights.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2676265/supreme-court-justice-antonin-scalia-first-amendment-offers-no-protection-non-believers/