View Full Version : Anyone thinking of eating a plant-based diet
As it is New years time for a change. There is a lot of discussion about how diet affects things, including the environment.
I have been whole foods plant based for I think nearly 4 years now. Anyone joining me?
Ultralight
12-31-15, 7:43am
As it is New years time for a change. There is a lot of discussion about how diet affects things, including the environment.
I have been whole foods plant based for I think nearly 4 years now. Anyone joining me?
I think about eating vegetables. I just don't do it. ;)
I have been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for more than 25 years. But I'm thinking about incorporating more vegan meals into my diet in 2016 having been inspired by vegan super-athletes Scott Jurek and Rich Roll. I hesitate to claim that I will eat entirely vegan because I did grow up on a dairy farm and I do so love milk and cheese!
Ultralight
12-31-15, 8:40am
In all seriousness, I support the plant-based diet. I don't eat beef or pork. About 3 months ago or so I stopped eating chicken.
I was vegan in college and I got really sick. Long story...
But I am not doing that again. Also: I just love fish -- way too yummy!
I'm in the Michael Pollan school of eating, but meat has been creeping more and more into my diet. I don't often make resolutions, but this year one of them is to re-balance my food groups and get back to the "mostly plant" side.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 10:06am
I'm in the Michael Pollan school of eating, but meat has been creeping more and more into my diet. I don't often make resolutions, but this year one of them is to re-balance my food groups and get back to the "mostly plant" side.
Good plan. :)
My main issue is that I eat a lot of grains. Veggies taste bad to me. I do like fresh fruits though. Legumes, nuts, and fish are my main sources of protein.
I really need to work on the veggies though...
herbgeek
12-31-15, 10:27am
I plan to continue to experiment with ethnic cuisines, most notably Indian as an interesting way to reduce my meat consumption. We don't eat a lot now, but it tends to be the default when I'm really busy with work (meat/veg/salad done). I want to be as facile with Indian cooking as I am with typical American cooking so that I'm not having to think about it/really follow a recipe. If its as easy as my default, it will be more likely to be chosen. In addition to being healthier, its typically also a lot cheaper. And in economic difficulties, a 5 pound bags of beans/legumes goes a very long way.
Not giving up my grilled burgers in the summer though. :)
Ultralight
12-31-15, 10:37am
Not giving up my grilled burgers in the summer though. :)
On the first day and last day of summer I will grill up a couple bison burgers. They are the yums! But that is the only time I indulge in that.
lessisbest
12-31-15, 11:56am
We've been whole foods people for decades (avoiding highly-processed food, and foods high on the glycemic index of foods), and our diet includes lots of plants, and small amounts of animals that eat plants and their by-products (eggs, dairy). But with a $10/week meat budget for two adults, a little goes a long way. The last big change we made to our diet was to eliminate gluten (Jan. 2013), and that was a HUGE benefit to my health. It's not a one-size-fits-all world when it comes to what is best. When I was on a strict Macrobiotic Diet, it was nearly the death of me, but I still utilize many of the things I learned that were actually GOOD for me.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 12:07pm
I used to eat pretty darned healthy. But the weight of the world crushed that part of my spirit.
Maybe I should push back a bit more.
JaneV2.0
12-31-15, 12:53pm
In a perfect world, I'd eat food that was raised/pastured nearby to cut down on transportation. As it is, I mostly avoid monocrops (corn, soy, wheat, etc.) that destroy topsoil, indirectly kill millions of small animals, and require tons of petrochemicals. Through years of trial and error, I've found a plan that works for me, and I'm happy with it.
My main issue is that I eat a lot of grains. Veggies taste bad to me. I do like fresh fruits though. Legumes, nuts, and fish are my main sources of protein.
I really need to work on the veggies though...
I think legumes are technically vegetables, but what Pollan seems to want in his diet is more leafy greens than I'm able to get down. It helped to have a small garden with some kale, spinach, beets greens, lettuce and the like where you can just go out and cut something fresh, but it takes some experimenting to find a way to eat leafy greens without adding cheese (or BACON!). Pollan has a new PBS feature that is pretty good and worth a watch. It was interesting to see some of the dishes the vegetarian Seventh Day Adventists. It looked like just a lot of basic vegetables without a lot of disguise and a little bread. And they are the very long lived even compared to non-vegetarian Seventh Days. I guess you just get used to it or eventually re-calibrate the taste buds.
I'm not totally sure where Pollan sits with some of the whole wheat processed foods like whole wheat bread or alternate pastas like quinoa, but the PBS program did show him cutting into a loaf of homemade bread, so I have to guess he's not in the wheat belly category of avoiding them all together.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 1:04pm
I think legumes are technically vegetables, but what Pollan seems to want in his diet is more leafy greens than I'm able to get down. It helped to have a small garden with some kale, spinach, beets greens, lettuce and the like where you can just go out and cut something fresh, but it takes some experimenting to find a way to eat leafy greens without adding cheese (or BACON!). Pollan has a new PBS feature that is pretty good and worth a watch. It was interesting to see some of the dishes the vegetarian Seventh Day Adventists. It looked like just a lot of basic vegetables without a lot of disguise. I guess you just get used to it or eventually re-calibrate the taste buds.
Leafy greens taste so nasty. My gf eats lots of collards and kale (she grows them). But almost no matter what, I think they taste bad.
From as early as I can remember until I was about 20, I drank a half dozen Pepsi a day. My mom also fed me lots of chocolate cake (often for breakfast), Twinkies, Hershey bars, cupcakes, rocky road ice cream, and pasta with meat sauces.
I know it is hard to rewire one's taste buds.
Chicken lady
12-31-15, 1:23pm
Ultralightangler,
You should o a 2016 challenge to try a new vegetable dish every week. Maybe you'll find something you like.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 1:27pm
Ultralightangler,
You should o a 2016 challenge to try a new vegetable dish every week. Maybe you'll find something you like.
That is not a bad idea at all. Well, it is a good idea about bad-tasting things. ;)
Though I have already committed to my 2016 resolution to meditate for 20 minutes every single day.
ApatheticNoMore
12-31-15, 1:43pm
The usual way to eat greens besides adding cheese or bacon (yea pork is the traditional southern way) is to saute greens with olive oil and garlic (Mediterranean style). Never mind the fat, you can't even fully absorb the vitamins in greens with no fat.
May also want to add something sweet like raisins/currents or savory like olives to the olive oil and garlic saute, if you prefer. Adding to soups is another way to use greens. If eating raw, and some say it's best not to eat crucifers raw and that is many of them, could try things to moderate the bitter like honey mustard (sweet) dressing, or avocados.
I got sick as a vegan in college too. But let's face it, it was also the worst possible place to try such an experiment. Not only young and dumb with no great expertise at balancing a new diet, but also miles and miles away from any food stores, with no car to get to them unless I got a ride!, sharing a kitchen and so have to allocate time to use it. Talk about unfavorable conditions, you take short cuts and eat convenience food as long as it's vegan, and you get sick.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 1:52pm
I got sick as a vegan in college too. But let's face it, it was also the worst possible place to try such an experiment. Not only young and dumb with no great expertise at balancing a new diet, but also miles and miles away from any food stores, with no car to get to them unless I got a ride!, sharing a kitchen and so have to allocate time to use it. Talk about unfavorable conditions, you take short cuts and eat convenience food as long as it's vegan, and you get sick.
I was actually quite conscientious about it. I took a multivitamin every other day, I drank fortified soy or rice milks, I ate a few fortified foods too. Now, I did not eat many veggies though. I did get plenty of whole grains, beans, nuts, and fruit though.
I still got sick and tried everything to stay vegan. No dice though.
you can throw those leafy greens into a banana smoothie if you don't like the taste. So many people with bad vegetable experiences are the result of bad cooking.
If anyone is interested I can help. I can recommend websites, cookbooks, ideas etc.
So many of you here are moving towards meat and I want to celebrate, well CELEBRATE that for the economy, the environment, for health and most of all for the animals.
sometimes it takes a second try with new information.
I can't find the article, but I did read one about how meat does something to your liver. So the liver stops doing what it was planned to do because the meat does it for it. Then when you give up meat the liver is stunned and forgets to reactivate its special purpose.
Anyhow, I am putting this badly, but the idea is that with food that is not so great your body adapts to deal with it. It then has to adapt back. If I find the article I will post it.
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2013/12/are-failed-vegans-addicts-michael-klaper-md-video.html
well I was sort of close. Intestine, not liver. I watched this a while back and found it very interesting.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 1:59pm
sometimes it takes a second try with new information.
My ultimate plan -- in all seriousness -- is to eat a plant-based diet supplemented by animals I harvest myself, or some I know harvested. This basically means I'll eat speckled bass, bluegills, trout, and catfish (and mostly just during spring and summer). Throw in the occasional piece of venison from a friend and the occasional salmon my dad catches.
I am not big on dairy products or eggs. Though I do like goat cheese and pecarino romano, which I keep on hand. I will go through maybe a dozen eggs in a month.
Mostly I eat grain, lentils, beans, nuts/seeds, and fruit. I choke down a fair amount of celery and carrots too!
Ultralight
12-31-15, 2:03pm
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2013/12/are-failed-vegans-addicts-michael-klaper-md-video.html
well I was sort of close.
I can't watch this vid at work. Feel free to summarize.
What I really miss about being vegan are:
1. The sense of superiority over everyone else.
2. Being able to immediately make friends with any vegan in about 30 seconds. haha
Getting a CSA bag with tons of leafy greens, I have found quite a few tasty ways to eat them all:
My favorite is to make spinach curry, usually is 50% mixed greens with 50% spinach. It's a good place to add some of those anti-inflammatories (turmeric, etc.) mentioned in another thread :)
Then the green curry can be eaten with rice, potatoes, or in tortilla shells.
Other things can be added later such as lentils, pumpkin, cheese depending upon what is available.
I've added it to red sauces and made spaghetti, lasagna, pizza, etc.
Also made green curry pizza.
It freezes and thaws well.
Don't add dandelion greens...there is little to do to save a batch if you add in dandelion greens!
For ages, my wife and I ate a mostly-vegetarian diet, supplemented with meat we harvested ourselves. We were at the time concerned with the ethics of factory farming, and not engaged in some hair shirt environmentalist jihad to eat low on the food chain to "save the planet".
Since we moved to our current community 15+ years ago, we eat a lot more meat. It is easier to harvest/forage ourselves, and we have great sources of locally-raised cows, pigs, chickens, goats, lamb, ... Raised by people we know and trust, where we can verify the conditions. Raised appropriately and sustainably, on land that doesn't reasonably produce other crops.
I took delivery of two slaughtered goats just last week, from a farmer who lives on the next island over from us. She raised the goats for us, and we provided her funding along the entire process, and contributed some labor. My daughter raised her 4H animals on that farm for years, and built the goat barn over on the farm with some of her friends for the farmer, and got the farmer hooked on meat goat production.
Every year I commission a 4H kid to raise me a cow, and several kids to raise me lambs.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 3:16pm
For ages, my wife and I ate a mostly-vegetarian diet, supplemented with meat we harvested ourselves. We were at the time concerned with the ethics of factory farming, and not engaged in some hair shirt environmentalist jihad to eat low on the food chain to "save the planet".
What do you mean by this? The comment sounds rather elitist.
I took delivery of two slaughtered goats just last week, from a farmer who lives on the next island over from us. She raised the goats for us, and we provided her funding along the entire process, and contributed some labor. My daughter raised her 4H animals on that farm for years, and built the goat barn over on the farm with some of her friends for the farmer, and got the farmer hooked on meat goat production.
Goat is definitely my drug of choice when it comes to meat. I have a weakness for it, I really do.
On Xmas day I went to a Pakistani restaurant with my gf. She got chicken Karhai. But I got the goat chops curry. It was pure foodgasm!
We were at the time concerned with the ethics of factory farming, and not engaged in some hair shirt environmentalist jihad to eat low on the food chain to "save the planet".
My sentiments exactly. Those hair shirt jihads are generally misguided at best, and guaranteed to make me want to do just the opposite of whatever the sacrifice du jour is.
Ultralight
12-31-15, 3:28pm
We were at the time concerned with the ethics of factory farming, and not engaged in some hair shirt environmentalist jihad to eat low on the food chain to "save the planet".
My sentiments exactly. Those hair shirt jihads are generally misguided at best, and guaranteed to make me want to do just the opposite of whatever the sacrifice du jour is.
Explain, if you would.
What do you mean by this? The comment sounds rather elitist.
You say "elitist" like it is a bad thing.
I can math. I can science. I can engage in critical thinking. I prefer to spend my energy on things that produce real outcomes, and that produce positive gains for the energy expended.
So yes, I'm an elitist.
I run our local village's water system. I have hair shirt environmental types constantly pressuring me to adjust our rate structure to punish heavy users of water, because "water is precious, a scarce resource, and, umm, people in South America are having their water stolen by Nestle!" Well, on this island, in our area of service, we have plenty of water, it's practically free to process/treat/deliver (except for the cost of the plumbing), and "saving" water doesn't save it - every drop that falls here either runs over the rocky island into the sea, or it gets captured briefly, used by a household, sent to the treatment facility, then...wait for it....returned to the sea. It is not worth time or money to "conserve" water (within a certain range of use), because it's only a feel-good effort, and it is a waste of precious time and capital that could be used for other things that really *do* improve the environment.
Yeah, that water thing is mystifying to me, too. It's a cycle. If your country, location, community cuts down all its trees and encourages massive runoff, water will just be produced elsewhere.
Another example is "Zero Population Growth," which was the rallying cry thirty years ago or more. Because the planet is hugely overpopulated, no food to go around, etc etc. (That was fine with me; I had no desire to produce offspring.) In China, they institutionalized it with massive programs involving coercion, penalties, force... It's no surprise that now they have a generation of men who will never find brides, an aging population, a looming shortage of workers, and all the predictable sequelae that follow well-meaning but ultimately flawed reasoning.
So now, in all but the most backward countries, populations are falling. It remains to be seen what the ultimate outcome will be.
SteveinMN
12-31-15, 5:05pm
We do eat meat. We also eat plenty of foods which are not meat. The meat we buy tends to be smaller portions and, typically, from our food co-op, so we have a sense of the conditions under which it's produced. It's not something we're burning to fix, particularly since DW's food preferences and digestive abilities rule out some cuisines and types of cooking (for instance, it's tough to get Indian past her).
Besides, some of the "meat alternatives" are highly-processed themselves. I don't have a problem with tofu or tempeh (DW dislikes both unless it's soft tofu mixed with cheese in something), but Boca Burgers and Quorn ... well, there's a whole lot of work that go into those foods before I even get them home; I'll just say that. :) Easier to go -- umm, cold turkey -- on meat and just eat vegetables, eggs, and milk products.
But I'm tempted to publicly call Michael Pollan an elitist. I watched some video of him and some other foodie purchasing and preparing a simple meal while sarcastically commenting "Is this so hard? Such a burden?" or words to that effect. You know, preparing a meal from scratch may indeed be "so hard" for a parent who's already put in a twelve-hour day (including commute) and can hardly stand a minute longer, and considers cooking just another tedious job and not the delightful creative endeavor it may be for the handsomely-paid Pollan.
In short, though I agree that whole foods, locally sourced, and lovingly prepared are the gold standard, I can do without what comes across as his snotty attitude.
Whenever that "is this so hard" business comes up, I think, "oh, so did YOU actually go buy that? I mean did you personally walk to the store or the Farmer's Market and buy that, Michael? And are you personally going to wash and put away all those dishes and bowls and measuring cups and - ugh - the food processor you just used? And does this lovely special food diet leave YOU with $26.53 to buy anything else this month?"
In short, though I agree that whole foods, locally sourced, and lovingly prepared are the gold standard, I can do without what comes across as his snotty attitude.
Yes, at our local food bank we've discovered over the years that wonderful local raw ingredients are less desired than highly-convenient foods. When I poked into this a few years back and actually *talked* to the food bank customers, the issues seemed to be:
- didn't have secure housing in the first place (no place to cook)
- housing situation didn't allow much cooking (shared kitchen/space/roommates)
- didn't have cookware (see above)
- didn't have cooking skills, ingredients not familiar
- didn't have time, juggling 4-5 jobs and kids
We provided some cooking classes, sample recipes, loaner and free cookware, and that increased the take-rate for the raw goods. We're working on setting up a community kitchen for group cooking, food preservation, instruction, and that sort of thing, but that's easily a couple of years down the road.
When I spend an hour shopping and come home with the raw materials to wash, put away, prep, etc. the last thing I want to do is cook. So I completely get "produce fatigue." I try to keep food around that doesn't require much effort to eat.
Bae, I see it at our food pantry, too. I need to gently probe a little. Many of our clients do have gardens, though. We are rural. We've thought of having a meal once in a while to show ways to cook beans and rice.
a sensitive issue indeed. Nonetheless, I believe people are really looking at good ways to eat less meat, more veggies, lentils, beans and fruit.
Bae, I see it at our food pantry, too. I need to gently probe a little. Many of our clients do have gardens, though. We are rural. We've thought of having a meal once in a while to show ways to cook beans and rice.
I help teach cooking classes at our Food Bank. One problem they have at the Food Bank is LOTS of dried beans, and people who a.) don't like them b.) don't know how to prepare them c.) don't have cooking equipment, including stoves/pans, to prepare them. I helped solve the problem by finding a sponsor to purchase a grain mill to the Food Bank. They convert pinto and black beans, and some other unpopular legumes to flour. With the bean flour (or flour mixture) people can make "instant" refried beans on a stove top (cooks in 5-minutes) or in a microwave, and they seem to love refried beans. Combine refried beans and tortillas and you have a complete protein. This method is found in Rita Bingham's book, "Country Beans". Families who first were introduced to the "instant" refried bean flour are welcome to bring their own beans and the Food Bank will mill beans into flour for them. A good example of thinking outside the box.....
I helped solve the problem by finding a sponsor to purchase a grain mill to the Food Bank. They convert pinto and black beans, and some other unpopular legumes to flour. With the bean flour (or flour mixture) people can make "instant" refried beans on a stove top (cooks in 5-minutes) or in a microwave, and they seem to love refried beans.
Nice! Excellent idea.
I usually just prepare my dried beans with a soak overnight and then I throw them in the crock pot before work. I come home at night and I can very quickly have beans and rice or bean tacos or what-have-you.
Lessisbest, I love the idea of bean flour in cooking.
I have confess that cooking for one is a pain. A lot of dishes to clean up afterwards. I do frequently make a double or triple batch along the lines of cooking for a month and then freezing portions. Sometimes I get tired of my own cooking too.
I just checked all recipes site for chickpea flour recipes. Some neat ideas for a good change from meat. Never thought of the bean flour approach to making burgers, sauces and pancakes.
Tell me about the refried beans from flour please.
Good thread, BTW.
I have confess that cooking for one is a pain. A lot of dishes to clean up afterwards. I do frequently make a double or triple batch along the lines of cooking for a month and then freezing portions. Sometimes I get tired of my own cooking too.
Most of my cooking is also for one. I know there are cookbooks out there that are supposed to have strategies for dealing with all this. But I have not read them; for some reason I am dubious of them.
I do the big batch cooking too and I freeze stuff. Though I don't find frozen foods appealing for some reason. I still power through them, usually as lunches at work.
Breakfast seems to be the easiest for one-person cooking, especially if you eschew the meat. I have various cereals like oatmeal, creme of wheat, etc. I also do toasts, raw fruits, sometimes 'tovers (like a slice of pizza!), egg and biscuit sandwiches, egg tacos or egg burritos.
But then when you start getting into lunches and dinners I think it is harder to cook for one.
Most of my cooking is also for one. I know there are cookbooks out there that are supposed to have strategies for dealing with all this. But I have not read them; for some reason I am dubious of them.
I do the big batch cooking too and I freeze stuff. Though I don't find frozen foods appealing for some reason. I still power through them, usually as lunches at work.
Breakfast seems to be the easiest for one-person cooking, especially if you eschew the meat. I have various cereals like oatmeal, creme of wheat, etc. I also do toasts, raw fruits, sometimes 'tovers (like a slice of pizza!), egg and biscuit sandwiches, egg tacos or egg burritos.
But then when you start getting into lunches and dinners I think it is harder to cook for one.
So why not just eat what you think of as breakfast options for lunch and/or dinner as well? I love a nice bowl of oatmeal with raisins and some peanut butter for dinner. Easy to make, easy to clean up, and tastes great!
Lessisbest, Great idea about the bean flour.
Legumes contain a variety of antinutrients. This article addresses ways to minimize their effect on your gut:
http://authoritynutrition.com/how-to-reduce-antinutrients/
what a clever idea about the mill.
I am lucky enough to have an instant pot - so everything is made n a jiffy.
So many people with bad vegetable experiences are the result of bad cooking.
+1
It wasn't until sometime after I got to college that I realized that their were vegetables that didn't come in cans and therefore might actually taste good. Or that spinach didn't have to be slimy, massively overcooked dark green sludge like my elementary school lunchroom served. (we never had spinach at home. I guess no one had figured out how to can spinach to my mother's liking)
lessisbest
1-2-16, 11:54am
Lessisbest, I love the idea of bean flour in cooking.
I have confess that cooking for one is a pain. A lot of dishes to clean up afterwards. I do frequently make a double or triple batch along the lines of cooking for a month and then freezing portions. Sometimes I get tired of my own cooking too.
I just checked all recipes site for chickpea flour recipes. Some neat ideas for a good change from meat. Never thought of the bean flour approach to making burgers, sauces and pancakes.
Tell me about the refried beans from flour please.
Good thread, BTW.
razz - Bean flour isn't a perfect solution, but it's good in many cases. I personally prefer sprouting methods due to the anti-nutrients in beans/legumes, but for the Food Bank the bean flour was a good solution. There are also recipes for making "instant" split pea soup using split pea flour, and many other "instant" foods using a variety of bean flours.
You can find more information and recipes in Rita Bingham's books, so check the library (or get them through the Inter-library Loan) - "Country Beans", and "Natural Meals in Minutes". Both books have high-fiber, low-fat, meatless meal ideas in them. My books are falling apart I've used them so much. I make bean burgers, but I use sprouted/cooked beans, and sprouted seeds made into patties, as well as sprouted lentils used for taco filling.
An old saying is that "there's a lot more bad cooks than tough chickens". Yup. We have transitioned from basically having some form of meat at every meal to having it at 4 or 5 meals a week. A few of those are going out to eat so we're down to just a few meals a week with meat at home. We do green smoothies to get most of our (read: my) leafy greens. I like them old school, Southern style with salt, vinegar, bacon grease, etc. Lightly steamed with lemon pepper? Not so much. DW can stand out in the garden and chew kale, but I think it tastes like $#!+.
I think about eating vegetables. I just don't do it. ;)
But...what do people who don't eat plant based eat?
Exactly. Even if all you eat is nose-to-tail, all that means is the plants come to you pre-processed
I think "plant-based" used to be code for "vegan."
An old saying is that "there's a lot more bad cooks than tough chickens"....We do green smoothies to get most of our (read: my) leafy greens. I like them old school, Southern style with salt, vinegar, bacon grease, etc. Lightly steamed with lemon pepper? Not so much. DW can stand out in the garden and chew kale, but I think it tastes like $#!+.
A lot of bad cooks - and a lot of bad recipes. I have as many cookbooks as I wish to have, including some vegetarian, but I'd swear some of the recipes you find online have never been prepared by the person who wrote the recipe.
I get a lot of leafy greens in my smoothies, too My standbys for a hot vegetarian main meal are stir fry over rice and a red sauce over pasta, which I can add different vegetables depending on the season or what is in the larder. I don't get tired of either and they are a part of the weekly menu a couple or more days a week. I can even slip a little kale into them. Anyone else have a favorite or two that is easy to fix and a part of the main meal routine?
I like soups--chicken gumbo is a favorite, starting with a carcass cooked (for the equivalent of hours) in the Instant Pot. After I separate the chicken and strain the broth, I add okra celery, tomatoes, onions, garlic, green pepper, and spices. I might add a little kale, if I had any. I don't mind small amounts in cooked dishes or salads.
I also make what I call "turkey meatwad soup." It involves cooking ground turkey mixed with parsley, loads of garlic, and red pepper flakes, then cutting it into squares and adding it to turkey stock, carrots, celery, onions, and more garlic. Very bracing.
With soups, I get lots of vegetables without having to chop them more than once. I make a huge pot, then freeze it or just eat from it for days.
Soups work very well in the colder seasons. I take a pkg of onion soup mix, saute some garlic and onions (adding any meat I have on hand or a can of beans), any veggies like celery carrots or whatever needs to be used up then add a jar of homemade tomato juice and one of water. I will add any spices it seems to need. I can enjoy that for a week by varying the starch and additional protein that I serve with it for lunch.
I went vegan for health reasons three years ago, and aim to continue eating this way for the rest of my life. Ethics did creep in after a month of eating only plants. Our diet is mostly sugar free as well and we cook everything from scratch; the big aim for this year is to eat more vegetables. We eat a lot of different legumes in a lot of different forms, from besan to tempeh, lima beans to lentils. I'm always trying out new recipes.
We were at the time concerned with the ethics of factory farming, and not engaged in some hair shirt environmentalist jihad to eat low on the food chain to "save the planet".
My sentiments exactly. Those hair shirt jihads are generally misguided at best, and guaranteed to make me want to do just the opposite of whatever the sacrifice du jour is.
This is deeply cynical.
You say "elitist" like it is a bad thing.
I can math. I can science. I can engage in critical thinking. I prefer to spend my energy on things that produce real outcomes, and that produce positive gains for the energy expended.
So yes, I'm an elitist.
I run our local village's water system. I have hair shirt environmental types constantly pressuring me to adjust our rate structure to punish heavy users of water, because "water is precious, a scarce resource, and, umm, people in South America are having their water stolen by Nestle!" Well, on this island, in our area of service, we have plenty of water, it's practically free to process/treat/deliver (except for the cost of the plumbing), and "saving" water doesn't save it - every drop that falls here either runs over the rocky island into the sea, or it gets captured briefly, used by a household, sent to the treatment facility, then...wait for it....returned to the sea. It is not worth time or money to "conserve" water (within a certain range of use), because it's only a feel-good effort, and it is a waste of precious time and capital that could be used for other things that really *do* improve the environment.
Deeply cynical stuff here.
Deeply cynical stuff here.
Cynical. I don't think that word means what you think it means.
If I have a budget of $2 million for salmon recovery efforts and two full time staff positions, should I work on pointless water conservation efforts here, where there are no salmon streams that would benefit, or should I use the funds and time on helping people not destroy the eelgrass beds that are an important part of the salmon life cycle, eelgrass beds that are actually threatened by the actions of local people, often unknowingly?
That is, is it better to "feel good", or to save the fish?
Jumped 10000% into Vegan as of last week. Loving exploring new foods and ideas on a budget.
I'm weird; I love greens of all kinds. DD gave me some arugula, radish greens, and dinosaur kale from her garden which were languishing in the fridge so I chopped them very finely. Sauteed in olive oil with onions and garlic. Added that to some risotto cooked in broth. A little butter and parmesan and mixed it all together. It was yum.
I'm weird; I love greens of all kinds. DD gave me some arugula, radish greens, and dinosaur kale from her garden which were languishing in the fridge so I chopped them very finely. Sauteed in olive oil with onions and garlic. Added that to some risotto cooked in broth. A little butter and parmesan and mixed it all together. It was yum.
Yum indeed!
I went vegan for health reasons three years ago, and aim to continue eating this way for the rest of my life. Ethics did creep in after a month of eating only plants. ....
Funny. I went vegan--some twenty years ago--for "ethical" reasons, and quit because of my health (very shortly thereafter.) It's interesting how different people respond.
awakenedsoul
1-2-16, 9:41pm
I like eating a plant based diet. I do eat some meat and chicken, though. I just try to use less of it. In tacos, I'll put a small amount of ground beef or turkey, and lots of the toppings. Same thing with fajitas or burritos. Although I have to admit I do love a good steak now and then...
Lately I've been sauteeing carrots, onions, and red peppers, and having those with brown rice, barley, or potatoes. In the warmer weather I eat more salads.
My surgeon told me that vegetarians don't do well with hip replacement surgery. So, I incorporate some meat and poultry into my diet. I eat a ton of fruit...always have. I gave up the junk food and fast food, but still bake cookies and desserts, and have those in moderation.
awakenedsoul - I wonder what your surgeon meant by vegetarians don't do well. Hmmmm. Do you have any idea? Curios.
awakenedsoul - I wonder what your surgeon meant by vegetarians don't do well. Hmmmm. Do you have any idea? Curios.
kally - It takes an enormous amount of protein to heal wounds properly and quickly, and it's sometimes difficult for vegetarians to consume enough protein that has a high Biological Value. Here's a protein chart at this link - http://www.fitstep.com/Advanced/Tips/Tips/protein-chart.htm
I read a study years ago (I'm too lazy to look it up) reporting the best outcomes for women and bone health as they aged were a result of moderate calcium and higher than average protein intake.
Here's one:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1567S.full
CONCLUSION
Despite a widely held belief that high-protein diets (especially diets high in animal protein) result in bone resorption and increased urinary calcium, higher protein diets are actually associated with greater bone mass and fewer fractures when calcium intake is adequate. Perhaps more concern should be focused on increasing the intake of alkalinizing fruits and vegetables rather than reducing protein sources. The issue for public health professionals is whether recommended protein intakes should be increased, given the prevalence of osteoporosis and sarcopenia. Currently, little or no attention is paid to ensuring adequate protein intake for elderly fracture patients. In the hospital setting, there should be nutrition protocols in place for hip-fracture patients that include higher protein and calcium intakes. Moreover, health professionals may need to be reeducated about the important role of protein in bone health.
I dehydrate kale and found I can add it to LOTS of things when it's dry and crumbled - a little like adding dry parsley. And speaking of parsley, I use a lot of simple - grown-in-my-sunny-south-window - parsley. It's an excellent plant that needs more attention. I make parsley and quinoa salads (it's like making a wheat-free version of Tabouli - since we are gluten-free). When I make the rare "Pasta Salad", it's all chopped fresh vegetables with only a tiny amount of cooked pasta.
I personally avoid all sources of soy possible, so TVP (textured vegetable protein) is not on my list of meat replacers, but I do like to make bean burgers and grain-based breakfast patties (similar to sausage patties). I add sprouted lentils to chili and use sprouted lentils in tacos.
Most people like coleslaw, so increase the vegetables in it by adding some shredded carrot, shredded broccoli stems, and finely chopped greens (kale, parsley).
lessisbest
1-7-16, 10:09am
I read a study years ago (I'm too lazy to look it up) reporting the best outcomes for women and bone health as they aged were a result of moderate calcium and higher than average protein intake.
Here's one:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1567S.full
CONCLUSION
Despite a widely held belief that high-protein diets (especially diets high in animal protein) result in bone resorption and increased urinary calcium, higher protein diets are actually associated with greater bone mass and fewer fractures when calcium intake is adequate. Perhaps more concern should be focused on increasing the intake of alkalinizing fruits and vegetables rather than reducing protein sources. The issue for public health professionals is whether recommended protein intakes should be increased, given the prevalence of osteoporosis and sarcopenia. Currently, little or no attention is paid to ensuring adequate protein intake for elderly fracture patients. In the hospital setting, there should be nutrition protocols in place for hip-fracture patients that include higher protein and calcium intakes. Moreover, health professionals may need to be reeducated about the important role of protein in bone health.
Thanks for this information.
Ultralight
1-7-16, 10:12am
I read a study years ago (I'm too lazy to look it up) reporting the best outcomes for women and bone health as they aged were a result of moderate calcium and higher than average protein intake.
Here's one:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1567S.full
CONCLUSION
Despite a widely held belief that high-protein diets (especially diets high in animal protein) result in bone resorption and increased urinary calcium, higher protein diets are actually associated with greater bone mass and fewer fractures when calcium intake is adequate. Perhaps more concern should be focused on increasing the intake of alkalinizing fruits and vegetables rather than reducing protein sources. The issue for public health professionals is whether recommended protein intakes should be increased, given the prevalence of osteoporosis and sarcopenia. Currently, little or no attention is paid to ensuring adequate protein intake for elderly fracture patients. In the hospital setting, there should be nutrition protocols in place for hip-fracture patients that include higher protein and calcium intakes. Moreover, health professionals may need to be reeducated about the important role of protein in bone health.
See the documentary Forks Over Knives?
See the documentary Forks Over Knives?
Have no interest. Been there, done that.
Ultralight
1-7-16, 10:35am
Have no interest. Been there, done that.
Just a thought:
Why only cite studies that affirm your biases? Why not explore some that refute your biases?
I've explored both sides at length. As I've mentioned repeatedly, I was a vegetarian for years, and am familiar with all the vegan/vegetarian literature. I'll leave disseminating it here to others.
awakenedsoul
1-7-16, 11:01am
awakenedsoul - I wonder what your surgeon meant by vegetarians don't do well. Hmmmm. Do you have any idea? Curios.
Hi kally, Sorry, I didn't see this post until now. Some people experience a lot of blood loss during hip replacement surgery. My surgeon told me that if there wasn't too much blood loss, he could do the second hip right after the first. That way I would only have one hospital stay, one time under anesthesia, and one recovery period. They recycle your blood and give it back to you. (Well, my surgeon does.) Some people need a blood transfusion. Fortunately, I didn't.
Like lessisbest said, it does take a tremendous amount of protein to heal from major surgery. The muscles, tendons, and soft tissue all have to mend. I took his advice, and his fellow told me that my iron levels were very good after the surgery, higher than most people who just had one hip done. He seemed pleased.
I've kept up with eating well, and am amazed at how quickly I've healed. I had lost a lot of muscle mass in my thighs last year, and that has returned. So, I try to eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, but do have a moderate amount of meat, fish, and chicken.
I want to start making things like split pea soup again.
Personal biochemistry has to be taken into consideration when diet is considered, as shown, yet again, by this recent study: https://www.wddty.com/magazine/2016/january/bursting-out-of-the-one-size-fits-all-diet.html.
Mark Sisson does a nice overview of the interaction of genetic inheritance and food: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-using-your-recent-ancestry-to-determine-your-optimal-diet/#axzz3wzmGbDlh
I was very interested by Dr. Michael Greger's Youtube presentation (vegan nutritionist and activist). Dr. Greger carried out an intensive survey of the most recent literature, in response to Jay Dinshah's death from heart attack, and found that there were only two significant differences between vegans and omnivores: vegans were at twice the risk of degenerative disorders, and experienced twice as many hip fractures. This doesn't mean that vegans can't be healthy, as he points out - they just have to work harder. There's some useful stuff in this presentation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFWstlfDRk
However, Dr. Greger makes the same mistake as other idealogues at any point on the dietary spectrum: he fails to take individual biochemistry into account. Many people simply can't convert ALA into DHA and EPA at significant rates; we can eat flaxseeds by the cupful and still have omega-3 deficiencies. There are people who need heme iron. There are people who, probably because of ancestral diets providing very high amounts of vitamin D, don't synthesize it efficiently through sunlight. Some people are allergic to fructose. Others lack sucrase. There's a sizeable number of people who can't eat nuts or legumes. Hypoglycaemics need to avoid highly starchy and sugary items, whether potatoes or grapes.
Dr. Greger is also mistaken in saying that all transfats are deadly and that they are found only in animal fats. The naturally-occurring transfats, like CLA, are actually protective against inflammation and degenerative diseases. Mushrooms contain some transfats. The deadly versions are those produced in the industrial manufacture of seed oils.
I have been vegetarian since 2000. Have eaten meat only 3 times - 2 times during the first few months and once a few years ago. I try to eat a 100% plant based diet - some days I do really well, other not so good. It usually comes down to planning.
When I eat a whole food, plant based diet - I feel great, I feel clean, I am not bloated and full of energy.
I became a vegetarian due to the health issues in my family, stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, arthritis, etc. The first thing I noticed when I follow a low fat plant based diet is that my arthritis pain left my hands. I still have stiffness, but not the pain. My hands use to hurt so bad when I went to bed - had to take Advil to go to sleep.
I take only Vitamin B12, try to get as much sunshine as possible rather than take vitamin D. I rarely get sick. For me it works.
For me it totally works, but I had to learn how to eat a whole food plant based diet. It doesn't come overnight.
Williamsmith
1-12-16, 4:22am
I am interested in an increased plant based diet but I am afraid a lifetime of concentrated meat, dairy and carbohydrate diet is a bad habit to break and without very dedicated and well informed guidance the solution can be a tangent that is no better then the current status quo.
My family was very adept at surviving on garden produce taught to them by Great Depression experiences but these skills have been lost or diminished by the fast food industry and proliferation of restaurants.
A shame really, all those years toiling as a child in my grandfathers garden, hoeing between the rows and hand watering tomatoes, peppers, onions.........I remember fondly now. I still have a few of his tools and I can see him sitting by the garden in the shade, hoe in hand watching over his plants like a lifeguard watches over kids at the pool. There is a satisfaction in picking vegetables or fruit from your own plants. I never found the same feeling when having to kill a rabbit or chicken to provide a meal. Just a resigned feeling of a job that had to be done.
I am afraid a lifetime of concentrated meat, dairy and carbohydrate diet is a bad habit to break and without very dedicated and well informed guidance the solution can be a tangent that is no better then the current status quo.
Certainly science confirms that improper nutrition (animal- or plant-based) causes any number of health issues (just different ones). But it is possible to break the meat/dairy/carbs habit if it's approached a little at a time. There was a time when I thought a meal was incomplete if it did not put meat/poultry/fish front-and-center. I still probably eat more protein than I need nutritionally. But over years, I managed to both reduce the amound of animal protein I eat per portion and to convince myself that a meal does not have to have animal protein in it for me to be satisfied. Now the thought of visiting a restaurant for, say, a 24-ounce sirloin has utterly no appeal to me.
Similarly, I used to love potatoes in just about any form -- baked, chips, fries, loaded with cheese, ... Now I eat very few white potatoes in any form. Over the years I just got used to eating them less frequently. It helped that I didn't like the way I felt after binging on potatoes (and the associated oil, cheese, etc.).
But it took years of gradually reducing portion sizes from, say, half a chicken or six wings or such to a thigh or half a chicken breast or three wings. I replaced cookies and cake with snack chips before I shook them pretty much altogether. It's only in looking back at how things were that I can see how far I've progressed.
Certainly science confirms that improper nutrition (animal- or plant-based) causes any number of health issues (just different ones). But it is possible to break the meat/dairy/carbs habit if it's approached a little at a time. There was a time when I thought a meal was incomplete if it did not put meat/poultry/fish front-and-center. I still probably eat more protein than I need nutritionally. But over years, I managed to both reduce the amound of animal protein I eat per portion and to convince myself that a meal does not have to have animal protein in it for me to be satisfied. Now the thought of visiting a restaurant for, say, a 24-ounce sirloin has utterly no appeal to me.
Similarly, I used to love potatoes in just about any form -- baked, chips, fries, loaded with cheese, ... Now I eat very few white potatoes in any form. Over the years I just got used to eating them less frequently. It helped that I didn't like the way I felt after binging on potatoes (and the associated oil, cheese, etc.).
But it took years of gradually reducing portion sizes from, say, half a chicken or six wings or such to a thigh or half a chicken breast or three wings. I replaced cookies and cake with snack chips before I shook them pretty much altogether. It's only in looking back at how things were that I can see how far I've progressed.
I agree with the "leaning in" method of changing dietary habits, and I also believe change is possible. I went from a typical Anglo diet of meat and potatoes and loving roast beef, French dip, corned beef and cabbage more than any other food to becoming a lacto-ovo vegetarian without white-knuckling it, simply by just backing off of things a little at a time. I decided I wanted to eat less meat, so I decided to eat meat at only one meal a day. Then, I decided to always opt for the non-meat choice when it was convenient, and then, months later, I went all in.
I've given up a lot of sweets that way, and most recently, simple carbohydrates. And yes, there are things left to eat--things I really enjoy. Interestingly, your palate will help you out if you let it. I used to really hate nuts of all kinds, as well as beans. Over time, with my vegetarian diet, I suddenly found myself enjoying nuts, and I eat them for snacks all the time.
So, be patient and strategic, and remember why you are doing this.
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