View Full Version : Help..... Not sure what to do!
Thinking of moving to be near DS.... only relative.
Went to see the insurance company that would be best to go with in that area and had them go side-by-side with our current health insurance (where we currently reside) and .... the cost was at LEAST $6,000 more per year (up to $12,000 more if we get sick) and they did not cover as much. Was Blue Cross/Blue Shield. We have an HMO now that covers everything. Prescriptions are $5 (Blue X would be $25), doc visits are $10 (Blue X would be $30) etc.... Current pays for preventive dental cleanings and eye exams. Blue X does not. The only benefit of Blue X is that it can be used anywhere in the US and int'l as well. There are deductibles too. It is impossible to go head to head with all costs because Blue X says for some things they pay what is customary. How do you determine that? With the current health insurance Medicare is not needed. They pay everything and have checked with them and medicare. Blue Cross would require Medicare in addition to their plan.
The tax situation in MN.... one of the worse in the country. Where we are now is not tax friendly but not as bad as MN. See below.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes/T055-S001-kiplinger-tax-map/index.php
Cost of real estate in MN is less as are real estate taxes. That may save $1,000 - $2,000. The community where we would like to live has EVERYTHING we would need. Has a nice senior center with LOTS to do, a dog park, 3 grocery stores, hardware and other stores. We could actually live and shop in the community where we live and, if needed, not far from Mpls/St Paul. The airport is 20 minutes away. We would be 30 minutes from DS and not even have to go on a freeway. The library system is not as good as here but could do Netflix for a nominal fee.
The health insurance we currently have will only work in the county we live in now. If we move we will need to get the other insurance. Totally freaked out that the cost from one insurance to another can be so radical. Hard to totally compare HMO to pay for service plan. Only know that the minimum amount would be at least $6,000 more per year IF we don't get sick. We were hoping to travel more... this would put a crimp in that.
rodeosweetheart
1-3-16, 5:18pm
Wow, that is tough to figure out. Maybe Steve in MN has some ideas on the health insurance?
iris lilies
1-3-16, 6:45pm
In regard to the taxes, there are a few things I could say about MN's striving for socialist perfection, but I won't. :~)
OP, if you are moving from a warm weather state, do not underestimate the costs of cold weather land. Heat, snow removal, equipment needs on your vehicle and wear and tear on same. Factor that in. plus just remember that winter starts hard on in October and doesn't end until April. sometimes May. It's beautiful in the summer, though.
you would never get me back there in northern Midwest.
Teacher Terry
1-3-16, 6:53pm
Having lived in Wis for a long time IL is right about all those extra costs. Plus you need warm clothes, jackets, boots, etc. Heating costs can be large depending on your living situation, etc.
I now live in the cold north so I know all about winter. The plan later is to leave and be a snowbird. The reason we are thinking of MN is to be near DS the other times of the year. Also, the health insurance is what it is. There are only certain insurances available for us to take based on my former employer. I guess my question was to figure how much is realistic to spend to move closer? Is this an unrealistic goal?
Always bear in mind that our kids may need to move to find work in the future. Decide what is important to you and then then review your reasons for moving.
Velkom to socialist paradise MN!!!!1!!!
I haven't read the Kiplinger article completely, but I find it hard to believe Minnesota's tax situation is "one of the worst in the country" when posters in other threads mention property taxes of $8,000 a year on medium-priced homes in Texas and the sales tax in Chicago is over 9%. On our Twin-Cities-median-priced house -- probably not too far from where frugal-one is considering (her description fits our neighborhood to a T) we pay about $2,600 a year in property taxes and fees, and we tend to pay more than the folks in the 'burbs because we're within Saint Paul city limits. The sales tax here excludes groceries (but includes food prepared for immediate consumption, like rotisserie chickens), clothing, and drugs (Rx and OTC) and is 7.625% where we live (gotta pay for the sports pleasuredomes, dontchaknow) and 6.875% outstate.
Minnesota does include Social Security income when computing income tax and that seems be where Kiplinger's gets its undies in a bunch. That difference is not inconsequential. But taxes are only part of a cost of living anywhere and only those who are fixated on the gubmint "taking their money" put tax rates before any other consideration.
There is no other economy in the area as good as Minnesota's. The Koch mouthpiece in the state to our east has slashed their economy to the ground even while all the folks I know who live in western Wisconsin complain about their property taxes. Now that oil is under $40 a barrel, North Dakota isn't doing so well, either. The economy here is growing, which counts for something.
And we do have some things. Even the hospitals in the Twin Cities metro that suburbanites hope they never have to visit (Regions here in Saint Paul and Hennepin County Medical Center across the river) have good outcomes. Public schools in most of the metro area are good to excellent, though Minneapolis and St. Paul proper have a number of students, from poor largely-immigrant families, who are not ready for school here and do affect outcomes. This is a higher-tax state, but it also is a higher-service state. From the standpoint of programs to assist the disabled, social services, literacy, transit (niceties like lights on the highways), clean air and water and land, etc., there is far more here than residents get in lower-tax states.
Maybe you don't need those things. Or think you need them. I cannot know that. I also cannot speak much to the medical-insurance issues since we're covered under my wife's employer-paid policy (minus annually-increasing deductibles). Frankly, I think the Twin Cities is a little over-served. There are only so many birthing suites and NMRs and other expensive gear that a population needs, and having three main health networks slug it out doesn't help save money. But that's not unique to here and at least here you have a choice of whether you want to pay for a BMW medical plan or a Hyundai medical plan.
What I do know is that I have a bunch of friends and family of retirement age and I never hear from them that the taxes are driving them out of the state. If those folks they leave at all (most don't except as snowbirds), the weather is their prime reason for going. There are thousands of people moving into the Twin Cities from outstate and from Chicago and elsewhere. They're not all coming for the welfare benefits. :) They're here because there's opportunity and company headquarters and a hard-working smart populace -- a solid base on which to build. The weather? Yeah, not a prime draw in winter (but think of the electricity you'll save on air conditioning!). But it's manageable. You can tell by the number of cars leaving the state permanently.
you're not allowed to use Obamacare or any plans the state may offer instead? Although, I was shocked by how much more I would pay for one of these plans and how little I would get when compared to a year of COBRA.
Velkom to socialist paradise MN!!!!1!!!
I haven't read the Kiplinger article completely, but I find it hard to believe Minnesota's tax situation is "one of the worst in the country" when posters in other threads mention property taxes of $8,000 a year on medium-priced homes in Texas and the sales tax in Chicago is over 9%. On our Twin-Cities-median-priced house -- probably not too far from where frugal-one is considering (her description fits our neighborhood to a T) we pay about $2,600 a year in property taxes and fees, and we tend to pay more than the folks in the 'burbs because we're within Saint Paul city limits. The sales tax here excludes groceries (but includes food prepared for immediate consumption, like rotisserie chickens), clothing, and drugs (Rx and OTC) and is 7.625% where we live (gotta pay for the sports pleasuredomes, dontchaknow) and 6.875% outstate.
Minnesota does include Social Security income when computing income tax and that seems be where Kiplinger's gets its undies in a bunch. That difference is not inconsequential. But taxes are only part of a cost of living anywhere and only those who are fixated on the gubmint "taking their money" put tax rates before any other consideration.
There is no other economy in the area as good as Minnesota's. The Koch mouthpiece in the state to our east has slashed their economy to the ground even while all the folks I know who live in western Wisconsin complain about their property taxes. Now that oil is under $40 a barrel, North Dakota isn't doing so well, either. The economy here is growing, which counts for something.
And we do have some things. Even the hospitals in the Twin Cities metro that suburbanites hope they never have to visit (Regions here in Saint Paul and Hennepin County Medical Center across the river) have good outcomes. Public schools in most of the metro area are good to excellent, though Minneapolis and St. Paul proper have a number of students, from poor largely-immigrant families, who are not ready for school here and do affect outcomes. This is a higher-tax state, but it also is a higher-service state. From the standpoint of programs to assist the disabled, social services, literacy, transit (niceties like lights on the highways), clean air and water and land, etc., there is far more here than residents get in lower-tax states.
Maybe you don't need those things. Or think you need them. I cannot know that. I also cannot speak much to the medical-insurance issues since we're covered under my wife's employer-paid policy (minus annually-increasing deductibles). Frankly, I think the Twin Cities is a little over-served. There are only so many birthing suites and NMRs and other expensive gear that a population needs, and having three main health networks slug it out doesn't help save money. But that's not unique to here and at least here you have a choice of whether you want to pay for a BMW medical plan or a Hyundai medical plan.
What I do know is that I have a bunch of friends and family of retirement age and I never hear from them that the taxes are driving them out of the state. If those folks they leave at all (most don't except as snowbirds), the weather is their prime reason for going. There are thousands of people moving into the Twin Cities from outstate and from Chicago and elsewhere. They're not all coming for the welfare benefits. :) They're here because there's opportunity and company headquarters and a hard-working smart populace -- a solid base on which to build. The weather? Yeah, not a prime draw in winter (but think of the electricity you'll save on air conditioning!). But it's manageable. You can tell by the number of cars leaving the state permanently.
As noted above Steve.... I mentioned that real estate taxes were less than here. MN also taxes pensions. I did call an accountant in MN to see if my facts were straight as far as taxes etc and it was all confirmed. MN does not bode well for retirees. Yes, for other folks.. i.e. looking for work etc. (WHICH I HOPE NEVER HAVING TO DO AGAIN). As mentioned, the insurance I have now is totally amazing and the cost to relocate would be at least $6,000 per year (if we are not ill).... and upward to $12,000 per year with not as much coverage. As much as we would love to move there, it seems unrealistic. sigh
you're not allowed to use Obamacare or any plans the state may offer instead? Although, I was shocked by how much more I would pay for one of these plans and how little I would get when compared to a year of COBRA.
Better to use the plans provided by my previous employer.
Frugal One, just musing out loud, is there an adjoining state to MN with a better financial profile for retirees that would still bring you significantly closer to your family? Really doesn't look like MN is feasible - which boggles my mind, I had no idea the differences between states would be that huge.
rodeosweetheart
1-5-16, 1:14pm
Just googled Wisconsin vs. Minnesota and found this:
http://www.forwardwisconsin.com/forward_docs/uploaded_documents/resources_for_economic/WI-MN-Tax-Rates.pdf
Got to say, I'd choose Minnesota as Wisconsin is a community property state and those make me nervous, but that's just me.
Teacher Terry
1-5-16, 2:46pm
Property taxes are high in Wis. I am always amazed at what my friends pay there.
Property taxes are high in Wis. I am always amazed at what my friends pay there.
Exactly.
My response to frugal-one should have better contended that income tax is just one component of the cost of living anywhere. Yes, Minnesota taxes pension income. OTOH Minnesotans are not shelling out big-time for property taxes and the sales taxes are higher in more than a few other places. At what point does it become a wash financially? (I don't know; maybe it never does for some.)
The other consideration is the ongoing nature of expenses. Plowing snow, for example, costs money. Of course, the expense can be avoided by not plowing or privatizing plowing, but most people do not find that satisfactory. So whatever plowing costs, it has to be paid for. In a state with a deteriorating economy, people and businesses are less able to pay for it or move to places with better opportunities. That does not eliminate the need to plow; it just means the parties who remain pay more per head for it. Or push their vehicles through the powder. As we get older and start capping our income in retirement, the number of heads who can pay taxes, patronize businesses, be employed in the area, etc., makes a difference.
I'm not trying to shill for Minnesota. It's an acquired taste for most who are not from here and I'm sure the social aspect of living here would drive some here to drink (more). :) It also is entirely possible that the numbers don't work for frugal-one -- at least she's looked at a couple of scenarios to gain some information about that. But moving to a low-tax low-service state without good prospects for future funding of private and public expenses may not be the best move, either.
And the people in MN are SO NICE.
So, according to BankRate.com, the most retiree-friendly states are: Nebraska, Arizona, South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Virginia, Iowa, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming. That gives you Iowa and South Dakota in terms of places close to MN.
The WORST states: Oregon, Missouri, Kentucky, Hawaii, New Jersey (great :(), Louisiana, West Virginia, Alaska, New York, and Arkansas.
Teacher Terry
1-5-16, 3:31pm
Steve, I actually love Minneapolis. i went to grad school in northern Wis and considered living there when I finished but at the time could not find a job in my specialty. Nevada is low tax but also low services state. The weather is awesome etc but there are tradeoffs no matter where you live. I think the high cost of health insurance for FO is probably the biggest stumbling block. Wis has many services hence the high taxes.
Steve, I actually love Minneapolis. i went to grad school in northern Wis and considered living there when I finished but at the time could not find a job in my specialty. Nevada is low tax but also low services state. The weather is awesome etc but there are tradeoffs no matter where you live. I think the high cost of health insurance for FO is probably the biggest stumbling block. Wis has many services hence the high taxes.
The real estate taxes are the only taxes that are higher in WI vs MN. The cost of real estate is relatively the same (at least where we are thinking of moving). So, perhaps $1,000-$2,000 per year could be saved there but nullified in other MN taxes, i.e. sales tax (I know clothes are not taxed but other stuff is) plus the others mentioned previously. Also, MN has higher license plates (based on value of vehicle versus $75). The list goes on. Guess we need to figure what $ amount we are willing to give away for the privilege of moving. Not easy to determine.
Also, as far as being a community property state. I think that is a good thing. DEFINITION of 'Community Property' A U.S. state-level legal distinction of a married individual's assets. Property acquired by either spouse during the course of a marriage is considered community property. Anything acquired by either spouse prior to the marriage is not included.
So, perhaps $1,000-$2,000 per year could be saved there but nullified in other MN taxes, i.e. sales tax (I know clothes are not taxed but other stuff is) plus the others mentioned previously. Also, MN has higher license plates (based on value of vehicle versus $75). The list goes on.
Don't forget that groceries and pharmaceuticals are not taxed in Minnesota, either. Those are considerable outlays for most people. And, FWIW, my 13-year-old car has bottomed out in annual property taxes but we still have DW's 2010 car. Our total bill for "tabs" last year was $116. Apparently it would cost more for tabs in Wisconsin for us.
And, apparently, taxation and expenses are so situational it's hard to figure on any national organization being able to issue valid blanket recommendations.
Don't forget that groceries and pharmaceuticals are not taxed in Minnesota, either. Those are considerable outlays for most people. And, FWIW, my 13-year-old car has bottomed out in annual property taxes but we still have DW's 2010 car. Our total bill for "tabs" last year was $116. Apparently it would cost more for tabs in Wisconsin for us.
And, apparently, taxation and expenses are so situational it's hard to figure on any national organization being able to issue valid blanket recommendations.
Well, one thing in common... no taxes on groceries and pharmaceuticals (paper products are taxed here however). It is really is mind boggling on how many things we take for granted. We have our house cleaned out and ready to put on the market. There is no way we could have envisioned the dilemma we now face. The good news is that the house is cleaned out and fixed for curb appeal. Big decisions ahead....
Teacher Terry
1-7-16, 2:28pm
On the plus side no matter what you do you have a nice, uncluttered house:cool:
Gardenarian
1-7-16, 2:49pm
I'm surprised to see Oregon on the "unfriendly retirement" state list! There are a lot of retirees here, but mostly with California cash.
What are you paying for health insurance now?
We use an Obamacare plan that is not subsidized, and it costs $760 per month for three people. That's with a $5000 deductible. This is so much less than were paying pre-ACA that it seems cheap to me (though my share takes up about 1/5 of my pension.)
My pension is also taxed (as far as I can make out - I haven't done Oregon state taxes yet.)
As for property taxes, it might make sense to rent. I don't know what the housing situation there is.
Williamsmith
1-8-16, 3:31am
If I may throw Pennsylvania in the mix. Pensions are not taxed. State tax is only 6% and does not include clothing or food. There is a gasoline tax but if you live on the Ohio border it is easy enough to find gas at below $1.89/gal. Food is relatively cheap as is general consumables. There is only one toll road on the state and easy enough to avoid. There is a homestead act which provides property relief from casino collections. Property and school taxes vary greatly based on services and loacation. You can choose rural or urban. Pittsburgh is a very livable city with excellent health care opportunities.
If I may throw Pennsylvania in the mix. Pensions are not taxed. State tax is only 6% and does not include clothing or food. There is a gasoline tax but if you live on the Ohio border it is easy enough to find gas at below $1.89/gal. Food is relatively cheap as is general consumables. There is only one toll road on the state and easy enough to avoid. There is a homestead act which provides property relief from casino collections. Property and school taxes vary greatly based on services and loacation. You can choose rural or urban. Pittsburgh is a very livable city with excellent health care opportunities.
Yeah... but it is not near my DS.... the whole purpose of the move. Hopefully, will work for someone else.
awakenedsoul
1-8-16, 8:15pm
It's good that you are running the numbers now. Health insurance is very important. I used to have a catastrophic policy, which was very affordable. Once I knew I needed to have my hips replaced, I switched to a PPO that has excellent coverage. I receive a subsidy, though. If something goes wrong, I want to be sure that I can see my surgeon. When I was younger, I didn't think about things like this. Now I really plan and do my research.
Also, if you need to, you can take your house off the market and stay where you are. I've done that. Like you, I had it all cleaned and decluttered to sell. It turned out I couldn't find something nearly as nice for the same amount of money. I didn't want to fix up another home...so I stayed.
Williamsmith
1-8-16, 8:20pm
Yeah.....it's working great for me......but then I don't want to live near your sister. Good luck.
organictex
2-26-16, 11:12am
as a transplant from down south, I think the tax situation balances out wherever you go. places with no income tax usually
have higher real estate/sales taxes. I guess with everything, you get what you pay for...
frugal-one
2-26-16, 4:31pm
as a transplant from down south, I think the tax situation balances out wherever you go. places with no income tax usually
have higher real estate/sales taxes. I guess with everything, you get what you pay for...
Not really. After checking with the insurance company in MN and bringing in the current insurance... there definitely is a disparity. The MN insurance is WAY more and does not cover as much. It actually is the deal breaker. We have decided to stay where we are for now. If the insurance situation changes we will reconsider.
organictex
2-27-16, 11:16am
hard to put a price on time spent with loved ones...that is the main thing (only thing?)
i regret about my moving away from family :(
frugal-one
2-27-16, 4:18pm
hard to put a price on time spent with loved ones...that is the main thing (only thing?)
i regret about my moving away from family :(
Yes, this makes me sad too. However, I am hoping the situation will change in the future. For now, it is just too much of a disparity.
This generation is so mobile. I've seen parents move only to have the kids move away within a year or 2. Have you had the "are you staying put and do you want me nearby" discussion? It would be sad to raise your expenses only to have them leave.
I personally would raise my expenses to be near family if it was doable. THat said we are "stay putters". Moved here for college in 1979 and still love it!
rosarugosa
2-28-16, 9:04am
Frugal-One: Just curious, what state do you live in currently?
frugal-one
2-28-16, 4:00pm
Could be up to $12,000 per year disparity. We like to travel and this would definitely cut into the budget. DS would like us to move closer but am truly not sure how much time he would actually have to spend with us. They have their own lives and are very busy. We currently live 4.5 hours away.
Teacher Terry
2-28-16, 4:31pm
You don't live that far a way so I would just visit and not move. 12K would be a lot of $ to lose and I would not want to cut back on travel either.
mschrisgo2
2-28-16, 8:06pm
OP, I'm just curious about a couple of things in your mix- how long has DS been living 4.5 hours away? Are there any grandkids in the mix, or soon to be?
Those would be factors for me. My daughter and grands have never lived more than an hour away from me. When the kids were little (3 kids in 4.5 years), we were 1.5 miles apart, and were very involved in each others daily lives. Once the boys got into their early teens, I had to start making dates with them, lol. But I wouldn't have traded those first 12 years for anything, though I did have an opportunity to relocate for work. We are very close, and I treasure those relationships.
My brother and SIL are raising a granddaughter and moved closer to my parents (45 miles) after 20 or so years of living very far apart, and they just don't see them very often at all, a very few times a year. My mother is disappointed, but I could see it coming- more contact would bring them all very far out of their established comfort zones.
Just some things to consider.
Could be up to $12,000 per year disparity. We like to travel and this would definitely cut into the budget. DS would like us to move closer but am truly not sure how much time he would actually have to spend with us. They have their own lives and are very busy. We currently live 4.5 hours away.
I would NOT move for 4.5hours. I'd do a 3 or 4d weekend every month especially if he has a bed for you.
Or even if he doesn't have a bed, a hotel for a couple of nights, 12x/year would be significantly cheaper than $12,000
frugal-one
2-29-16, 12:30pm
Or even if he doesn't have a bed, a hotel for a couple of nights, 12x/year would be significantly cheaper than $12,000
My thoughts too. However, that is difficult because they are so busy. I imagine if we moved nearer to him we could get together often for a few hours... dinner or whatever. Coming for a few days crimps their style. We talk often but do not get together so much. We do not have grandchildren or other relatives. He is it. As stated earlier, will wait and see if the health care situation changes or if our health situation changes. Since he is the only relative it would be easier for him to take care of business should we expire. MIL died last year and she was a few hours away. It was a nightmare getting everything taken care of. We have time, I hope.
My parents are 5 hours away. They looked several times at moving closer to us when the boys were little. But the expense of living here is more and they'd get a lot less than they have. It came down to losing history...the family farm and all. They stayed put. We go back and forth to see each other. Not as much as we once did and sometimes we just meet somewhere in between for lunch, like yesterday. If anything now that the boys are out, I'd move to be closer to them so they can stay on the farm as they age (though currently they run circles around me).
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