View Full Version : What do you think? Can the EU and/or Schengen survive?
gimmethesimplelife
1-18-16, 8:53pm
Just a quick question, given the issues surrounding the migrants crisis in Europe, do you think the EU as a whole can survive this? And do you believe Schengen (passport free travel between all EU member countries though I believe Britain is exempted from this) survive the migrant crisis? I just read online that Austria is now scrapping Schengen temporarily (so they say) and is requiring everyone that arrives at an Austrian border or lands on Austrian soil to show documentation, EU citizen or not. The chancellor of Austria has said today that Schengen is at great risk as is holding the European Union together, too. Amazing how much the EU has been tried over the past year - the Greek debt crisis and now the migrant crisis. Rob
Williamsmith
1-18-16, 9:48pm
I'd like to make a brilliant statement here but I have nothing. One observation. New York City at the turn of the 20th century was awash with immigrants. There were slums and much crime but some of our greatest citizens emerged from that poverty and chaos to become leaders and wealthy people. Some of my best friends came from some questionable stock. I view the crisis as both a challenge and an opportunity and I have hope that it will all work out over there. But I've never been more satisfied by my geographic location and the vastness of the Atlantic Ocean, than I am now.
I'd like to make a brilliant statement here but I have nothing. One observation. New York City at the turn of the 20th century was awash with immigrants. There were slums and much crime but some of our greatest citizens emerged from that poverty and chaos to become leaders and wealthy people. Some of my best friends came from some questionable stock. I view the crisis as both a challenge and an opportunity and I have hope that it will all work out over there. But I've never been more satisfied by my geographic location and the vastness of the Atlantic Ocean, than I am now.
That s very cool, love it!
IshbelRobertson
1-19-16, 6:58am
Schengen isn't working and there is great unrest in Germany because of the Christmas incidents with women being manhandled and sexually assaulted by what appeared to be organised groups of male immgrants. The situation was not helped by the German police trying to downplay the incidents as they did not want to bring ethnicity into the incidents in view ofGermany's open-door policy.
I just wonder how long Frau Merkel can survive. The German extremist right wing elements seem to be pouring petrol onto the fire.
Our referendum campaign re staying in/opting out of the EU is hotting up now. David Cameron has said he expects to retun home with significant concessions for the UK from other eu nations. The take on this by a cynical Scot? 'Aye, right. '. As in 'nae chance'!
Realistically, Germany and other European countries need immigrants because their birthrate is so low and their population is aging. The tragedy is that the immigration is not necessarily going smoothly. Integrating such diverse cultures is the challenge.
Observation - how women are regarded and treated seems to be an indication of state of civilization of a society. Lack of respect, viewed as chattels for male use and abuse, patriarchal justice etc., lead to chaos. History has demonstrated societies eons ago where women were equal and harmony and knowledge expanded.
I just read in Macleans weekly magazine about a Syrian refugee family with one woman and three children arriving in Canada. She is totally illiterate but will be expected to earn a living to support her family. I truly thought that Syria had a higher literacy rate than many mid-eastern countries but apparently not.
The refugee crisis has highlighted a few crucial design flaws in the EU's basic design. The most important is coordination, when Germany and others elected to ignore the policy of stopping and processing immigrants at the first border they crossed, they created issues through the whole union. Nor were law enforcement or military responses well coordinated among the member states.
Likewise the EU's failure to link monetary with fiscal policy is leading to enduring economic problems and public dissatisfaction with current arrangements.
Given the history of the past few years, and the current command structure and forces in being, it's difficult to believe the EU could respond effectively to military challenges of any significance.
I see them going the way of the Holy Roman Empire in my lifetime.
Williamsmith
1-19-16, 12:39pm
The EU is going nowhere unless the USA goes there too. They are too big to fail. And vice versa.
The EU is going nowhere unless the USA goes there too. They are too big to fail. And vice versa.
I think there are some fairly significant differences between the US and EU in terms of law, tradition, governmental structure, demographics and geography that make linking the two's fate problematic.
I also think that history has provided some pretty unambiguous refutations of the "too big to fail" fallacy.
Teacher Terry
1-19-16, 1:47pm
I find it interesting that the immigrants did not want to stay in other countries but wanted to go to Germany. It was all over facebook that Germany has many social programs, etc. MY DIL is from Poland and they were over there for a few months when all this was happening. Many countries don't have jobs for their own people let alone immigrants. Many Poles end up in Germany because of the lack of jobs in Poland. Also there is a huge difference between the immigrants of the past from Europe and the ones now in their culture, etc. It will be a much bigger adjustment.
I see the EU is considering some of Britain's proposals that may have some bearing on the coming Brexit referendum. There could be a vote as early as June.
IshbelRobertson
2-18-16, 7:20am
I'm voting Out.
I'm voting Out.
I would think that would be a complicated decision.
Are your concerns about immigration, economic policy or national sovereignty?
IshbelRobertson
2-18-16, 12:42pm
All of the above, but particularly national sovereignty.
All of the above, but particularly national sovereignty.
That would seem to be an inescapable topic these past few years for the UK in general and Scotland in particular.
Best of luck.
IshbelRobertson
2-18-16, 6:13pm
As my Jewish friends say... 'From your mouth to God's ears'!
gimmethesimplelife
2-18-16, 9:13pm
Something I find interesting is that Austria is polling around 50 percent of it's citizens wanting out of the EU, too. People there are saying that they are paying too much in and not getting enough back. Also that the EU for Austria is not wise from a social welfare standpoint. Rob
Centralized EU power does not seem to have done well when submitted to popular vote in various countries.
Williamsmith
2-19-16, 10:30am
Centralized EU power does not seem to have done well when submitted to popular vote in various countries.
Perhaps the population realizes unlike the politicians that their sovereignty lies in the people and not their government. The EU is nothing more than a glorified home owners association with gates that don't work.
Centralized EU power does not seem to have done well when submitted to popular vote in various countries.Perhaps they see parallels with the United States, which lost their individuality under an all powerful central government.
IshbelRobertson
2-19-16, 11:08am
I think that in the case of my country, we have an island mentality. The water is our protection!
I seem to recall that W Churchill said something pertaining to the nature of the links between Britain and mainland Europe. I'll have a google and find it.
http://twitter.com/NewEuropeans/status/559320640725864448/photo/1
There seems to be controversy about when Churchill made these comments and whether they were actually recorded at the same time. I thought they were as it was much reported when we were joining the EU.
I think that in the case of my country, we have an island mentality. The water is our protection!
I seem to recall that W Churchill said something pertaining to the nature of the links between Britain and mainland Europe. I'll have a google and find it.
http://twitter.com/NewEuropeans/status/559320640725864448/photo/1
There seems to be controversy about when Churchill made these comments and whether they were actually recorded at the same time. I thought they were as it was much reported when we were joining the EU.
"Fog in Channel. Continent Cut Off"
The compromise package Mr. Cameron brought back from the summit seemed fairly limited and contingent in it's guarantees to me.
It looks like Boris Johnson is trying to generate some drama over revealing his position, Never let a crisis go to waste, I guess.
IshbelRobertson
2-21-16, 3:40pm
He came back almost emptied-handed....
Boris is the arch-opportunist.
Oh, and the SNP are firmly committed to the Stay In camp.... Or at least for today!
He came back almost emptied-handed....
Boris is the arch-opportunist.
Oh, and the SNP are firmly committed to the Stay In camp.... Or at least for today!
I see Boris has decided in favor of supporting brexit. It seems less a principled stand to me than a sort of Clintonian political triangulation.
My guess is that the vote in June will have farther-reaching consequences than anything that will be decided in the US presidential election this November.
IshbelRobertson
2-22-16, 5:57pm
I can't comment on the situation re the US elections, but I fear we in the UK will be living in interesting times both before and after 23 June!
I can't comment on the situation re the US elections, but I fear we in the UK will be living in interesting times both before and after 23 June!
I don't believe the US has had a vote that had such important implications for shaping our national sovereignty since 1860. We don't have anything like either the Scottish independence (which doesn't strike me as anywhere close to being permanently resolved) issue or the UK/EU issue going on here.
Even if either the Trump or Sanders novelty acts prevail in November, I like to think our constitutional system will mitigate the worst excesses of either.
IshbelRobertson
2-23-16, 12:47pm
The Referendum is getting wall to wall coverage both on TV and in the newspapers here and will no doubt get pretty nasty. Mr Cameron got a couple of insults in re Boris yesterday in parliament.
I have little time for Boris, but admire another Tory, Michael Gove, who was the first to announce he would not be supporting his personal friend, DC, and would campaign to leave. He is a man of principle, not something I would normally say about a Conservative politician!
The Referendum is getting wall to wall coverage both on TV and in the newspapers here and will no doubt get pretty nasty. Mr Cameron got a couple of insults in re Boris yesterday in parliament.
I have little time for Boris, but admire another Tory, Michael Gove, who was the first to announce he would not be supporting his personal friend, DC, and would campaign to leave. He is a man of principle, not something I would normally say about a Conservative politician!
I understand a number of Cameron's cabinet will be supporting leaving, and that a majority of FTSE CEOs will be lobbying to stay. It's hard for me to imagine a more complicated collection of economic and political winners and losers in a situation like this. Viewed from the outside, It's far more interesting than whether Hillary will release transcripts of her speeches to Goldman Sachs.
I see President Obama is planning on a trip to the UK, where he plans to explain to Britons why they must stay in the EU. It will be sometime after his trip to Cuba to pay his respects to their Dictator Emeritus.
I can only imagine the reception a foreign head of state would receive on a similar mission to the US.
IshbelRobertson
3-18-16, 2:14pm
His gaffe has gone before him... Typical outrage about a foreigner daring to 'tell us what to do'.
Still, we know he doesn't really like the British, so I am personally not offended!
His gaffe has gone before him... Typical outrage about a foreigner daring to 'tell us what to do'.
Still, we know he doesn't really like the British, so I am personally not offended!
I never understood that.
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