View Full Version : Denver
It is crazy here. Very discouraging. The entire city is gentrifying and all the niches you could find something affordable are being affected as well. I live in an apartment that is one bedroom and a den that I use as a bedroom, we have 2 bathrooms which is very good. It is $1,250 a month. I really searched to get this place, I will admit to wanting something basically nice after the house I rented that was falling apart. My friend is going to need to move in the next 6 months and is already very nervous. She finally is making a decent income but has huge medical bills and pays her own insurance. If she doesn't move the landlords are going to increase the rent anyway, some places are doubling. My one daughter pays as much as I do for a small house nearby, which is a huge struggle. However when we have looked around neither one of us would get much lower without moving way far from work and then needing multiple cars.
I read that we have one of the housing markets that is increasing the most in the country. Even places like Seattle and San Francisco went through this slower and they have been crazy. The general understanding is that pot being legalized here brought a lot of people in various ways. However when we voted on the places the pot money would go it was confusing. It was for school construction and specific health related programming, many of us understood it to be schools on a more general level like staffing and technology included. But it isn't in the right places I think because Denver schools just had to cut jobs by 7%. So all these huge homes, homes selling for really large sums and our school is losing money and jobs?
What is crazy to me is that 6 years ago the bottom fell out and my house lost $100,000 in value!! I could not make the payments or re-fi for the 10 years they predicted it would take to get the value back, decent paying jobs were very scarce and I chose foreclosure. Now we have houses being built next to our apartment that START in the low $700's. My son would like to move out eventually and he saw $700 and got excited, then I explained that it meant $700K, not what he could afford, a $700 a month apartment.
Sigh, so please don't move here, we are feeling pretty grumpy in Denver.
rodeosweetheart
1-24-16, 11:53am
That is a lot of rent! Sounds like Portland, where my kids were paying that for a small 2 bedroom apartment downtown. They bought a house and now I worry if anything were to happen to her job.
Some areas are really crazy; we could not afford to move back to Chicago if we wanted to, which makes me sad, but the taxes are too much, the housing prices insanely high. I have never made enough money to live in places like that, once I got divorced.
I miss it there, after 28 years, it felt like home. But I could not afford to live there anymore, so that was that.
It certainly does complicate community building and a sense of place and family, doesn't it.
It certainly does complicate community building and a sense of place and family, doesn't it.
Very good point, my friend and I have our families here. I have worked so hard to make connections and friends, I would not do well if I had to move. I know we all have some places that support us more than others, to be in the midwest would be so very hard (although family in the midwest seems to think I would just fit in fine!). Most of all my kids are here, their friends, I go back to places I went as a teenager, we have made Denver a home and it isn't easy.
There is some movement on paying higher wages here at least. In many cases is is barely breaking even with the rising costs of housing.
That is a lot of rent! Sounds like Portland, where my kids were paying that for a small 2 bedroom apartment downtown. They bought a house and now I worry if anything were to happen to her job.
Some areas are really crazy; we could not afford to move back to Chicago if we wanted to, which makes me sad, but the taxes are too much, the housing prices insanely high. I have never made enough money to live in places like that, once I got divorced.
I miss it there, after 28 years, it felt like home. But I could not afford to live there anymore, so that was that.
It certainly does complicate community building and a sense of place and family, doesn't it.
DH and I live in the Chicago area (far north suburbs), I was born and raised in the city, DH was raised in the suburbs. Taxes are insane, even if we paid off our house tomorrow, we would still have to factor saving for taxes on a monthly basis which is a good chunk of our mortgage payment now. DH is nearing retirement, I still have a few years to go but honestly with the taxes here, we can't stay here. The sad part is our families are here but we can see we are not going to afford it.
Would love to move to CO after living in the flatlands all my life, I would love to be near mountains, but already heard about Denver real estate so that's not going to be a solution unfortunately.
Saguaro, I live in a Denver suburb NW of the inner city. The 50's houses in my neighborhood are priced in the 250k to 350k range. They are well built houses with well cared for mature landscapes, good neighbors, and little crime. I'm 10 or 15 minutes driving time from downtown, a few blocks from light rail, and a very short drive to recreation in the foothills. It's true that prices are going up sharply and there are popular neighborhoods with much higher prices, but there are also still nice affordable areas.
affordable for me would be about $900 for a simple 2 bedroom apartment. That is close to the 30% mark of my income. Of course having a 2nd person to fully share rent makes it easier. I am paying $1,300 right now and my son is just going to start paying rent but he is also just starting out. I have no idea what to charge him, but it may be more than I want to. I have been paying at least $1,200 a month for 6 years, with an income some years of $25K (thank goodness for child support), some of that was a 3 bedroom house in the city. I love Denver but whew, I don't think I could find much in a 1 bedroom for $900, I did find a 2 bedroom for about that in a really scary area. I am going to push through another year here and see what I can do, but $250K is pushing a lot of families out of the area where I work and it is sad.
Ultralight
2-26-16, 10:56am
affordable for me would be about $900 for a simple 2 bedroom apartment. That is close to the 30% mark of my income. Of course having a 2nd person to fully share rent makes it easier. I am paying $1,300 right now and my son is just going to start paying rent but he is also just starting out. I have no idea what to charge him, but it may be more than I want to. I have been paying at least $1,200 a month for 6 years, with an income some years of $25K (thank goodness for child support), some of that was a 3 bedroom house in the city. I love Denver but whew, I don't think I could find much in a 1 bedroom for $900, I did find a 2 bedroom for about that in a really scary area. I am going to push through another year here and see what I can do, but $250K is pushing a lot of families out of the area where I work and it is sad.
Why not charge your son half the rent?
Why not charge your son half the rent?
I am not sure, maybe more than I wanted to but half is pretty hard on a kid starting out. He is going to take on his phone as well.
Landlords are cleaning up in desirable areas, raising rents at every opportunity. I checked average rents the other day--$2065 in Bellevue, $1456 in Portland. Portland is undergoing an ugly process of nice older houses being torn down to throw up cheap infill. A friend recently bought a modest house there for cash--it's appreciating at about $3K a month. At that rate, I'm going to have to rethink the Portland area. I guess many young people will either have to stay with their family of origin forever or live in cramped quarters with multiple roommates. I sympathize with renters and those just starting out.
Ultralight
2-26-16, 12:16pm
Landlords are cleaning up in desirable areas, raising rents at every opportunity. I checked average rents the other day--$2065 in Bellevue, $1456 in Portland. Portland is undergoing an ugly process of nice older houses being torn down to throw up cheap infill. A friend recently bought a modest house there for cash--it's appreciating at about $3K a month. At that rate, I'm going to have to rethink the Portland area. I guess many young people will either have to stay with their family of origin forever or live in cramped quarters with multiple roommates. I sympathize with renters and those just starting out.
Finding good room mates is a lost art that will probably have a major renaissance soon.
Ditto here in Austin. We are putting our house on the market and getting the heck out of here - after 30 years. Who would have thought that our humble little 50s house would ever bring half a milliion with a high probability of getting knocked down. I don't understand how most of the population here are getting by other than having several roommates or living way out in the burbs and commuting in. But...there are certainly lots of options of other places that aren't quite so popular right now so that is where we are looking.
Guess my boring Indianapolis is not so bad after all. The only apartments that reach those prices are located right downtown in new buildings or in the suburbs with fantastic amenities. They are building or have built over 3000 new apartments due to demand.
Houses are still reasonably priced at all levels. Although we do have our share of over 2 million, lots of downtown $600,000s, and such. But a newer house close to downtown can still be found for much less and have space, yard and garage. Get out on the bus lines (which are not too many) and there are places for $100,000 or less.
I sincerely hope it does not get more 'popular'.
Everything is up and down so much that it is all about timing now.
We pay $1950 for a 2bdr/1bath on Oahu.
Decided to suck it up and get a 1 bedroom.
1 bedroom places in our building were going for $1700/mo and suddenly when I start seriously
looking they all jumped up to $1900 and $2000!!!! More than we were paying for the 2 bedroom.
Looked at some other places but they turned out to be seriously unsafe set ups or too far away.
So I quit looking.
Now there are two apartments for rent at $1650 and $1700. Now I can't move because my mom
& aunt are arriving and the breadwinner is away. UGH.
Timing.
And the military:
E-1 Housing allowance = $1959 or $2613w/fam
O-1 Housing allowance = $2550 or $2706w/fam
You could ask your son what he would be willing to kick in for rent. It may be more than you think.
Teacher Terry
2-26-16, 3:57pm
Half is probably too much but if 900 is where you are comfortable paying why not have him pay 300 or 400 a month.
Ultralight
2-26-16, 4:00pm
Half is probably too much but if 900 is where you are comfortable paying why not have him pay 300 or 400 a month.
2 bedroom apartment? Why is half the rent too much?
Our rent in San Francisco goes up every year by a couple hundred. And every year I look on craigslist with a search for 2 bedroom apartments, any neighborhood, for our current rent or less, and generally find maybe 20 listings, all smaller and dumpier than our place and in less convenient neighborhoods. So we suck it up and pay the increase. We're now paying $900 more than when we moved in 6 years ago and will probably get another increase on May 1, at the 6 year anniversary. The only reason we stay is because we both have good, well paying jobs.
My job would be fine with me moving to Portland, LA, Seattle, or anywhere within a couple hours drive of the four major west coast cities. If only SO didn't need to be physically here we could move someplace cheap like Portland and live like absolute kings on the savings. Instead we'll probably stay here until we retire and then move north of the city, outside of commutable range where housing is significantly cheaper.
2 bedroom apartment? Why is half the rent too much?
Because I am mom, not a roommate. It matters to me that I can do something for them.
Ultralight
2-26-16, 9:38pm
Because I am mom, not a roommate. It matters to me that I can do something for them.
Okay, we're just discussing ideas and such here. No need to get upset.
Couldn't you also be doing something for the young man that is your son by making him pay rent as an adult would -- that is half?
And I totally understand how it matters to you that you can do something for him. But could it also be doing him a disservice by allowing him to live unrealistically indefinitely?
And again, I understand how it matters to you that you can do something for him, but why does this have to be about you and about affirming your ability to take care of an adult son? Could it be more important that he become independent as possible?
Just thoughts, ideas -- no judgments here. I know I don't have kids, so my perspectives come from that angle.
Williamsmith
2-26-16, 10:09pm
My daughter moved back in with me after college. There were times I thought making her pay for room and board might be the thing to do but then I also thought if she can't find a resting place here....where will that be? So never asked her for a dime. Then again I'm the same father who not liking her boyfriend, banned him from coming to the house and when she wouldn't stop seeing him....threw her out of the house and refused to communicate with her. I had good reasons, like his prior felony criminal history record. That would be like a firemans daughter dating an arsonist......but she didn't see it that way. Happily, we have mended our relationship.
Okay, we're just discussing ideas and such here. No need to get upset.
And I totally understand how it matters to you that you can do something for him. But could it also be doing him a disservice by allowing him to live unrealistically indefinitely?
Just thoughts, ideas -- no judgments here. I know I don't have kids, so my perspectives come from that angle.
I will just say that you are hitting a sore spot here, of course not intentionally, but I don't get into a deep discussion of this for a reason. Charging him something yes, how much or if half is reasonable is not up for discussion. I think I should take a break,
Ultralight
2-26-16, 10:29pm
I will just say that you are hitting a sore spot here, of course not intentionally, but I don't get into a deep discussion of this for a reason. Charging him something yes, how much or if half is reasonable is not up for discussion. I think I should take a break,
Okay, I can drop the subject if you'd prefer to. I am easy-going.
Ultralight
2-26-16, 10:29pm
My daughter moved back in with me after college. There were times I thought making her pay for room and board might be the thing to do but then I also thought if she can't find a resting place here....where will that be? So never asked her for a dime. Then again I'm the same father who not liking her boyfriend, banned him from coming to the house and when she wouldn't stop seeing him....threw her out of the house and refused to communicate with her. I had good reasons, like his prior felony criminal history record. That would be like a firemans daughter dating an arsonist......but she didn't see it that way. Happily, we have mended our relationship.
I am glad you and your daughter are on good terms.
A felon, huh? Ouch... :(
People can reform though. Once in a great while...
Gardenarian
2-26-16, 10:31pm
Zoe Girl, your ds is pretty young, isn't he? It sounds like you're doing the right thing - have him contribute what he can as you help him on his journey.
The rents in Ashland, OR are somewhat less than Denver but the vacancy rate is only 1%, so they are rising pretty fast. Currently it's around $750 for 1 bed, $950 for 2 bed.
Rather than tearing down the pretty old houses here, the city encourages infill. Many people have cottages or tiny homes in their backyards. There are also quite a few unobtrusive and fairly attractive trailer parks, in surprisingly nice neighborhoods.
Teacher Terry
2-27-16, 3:31am
Because she is the mom and likely making much more $ then him which is why I suggested 300 or 400/month for him. A win-win for everyone.
Williamsmith
2-27-16, 5:24am
When my son , 28 yoa , unexpectedly was served divorce papers it started a tornado of financial challenges. There was a house with joint mortgage, two cars with joint monthly payments and a little fragile daughter of four who loved both her mommy and daddy. She wanted to keep the house so he agreed to leave. Figuring a monthly budget out for him scared me. Any way I figured it, with child support he was staring at public assistance housing in a sketchy neighborhood.
So I ruminated over the idea of having him move in with us. He could afford to pay a monthly rent. In the end, I felt it was more important that he have his own place and so I chose to subsidize or be his safety net so he could have his independence. We found an apartment for $550/mo. In a decent neighborhood.
I have never ever given him money with the understanding that it was a loan. I have told him that it was not necessary for him to feel he had to pay it back. My point being, financial arrangements change the dynamic of your relationship from a father/son to something less comfortable. At least that's the way it is for me. So I Understand the OPs hesitation to collect rent.....it changes things dramatically.
W
I have never ever given him money with the understanding that it was a loan. I have told him that it was not necessary for him to feel he had to pay it back. My point being, financial arrangements change the dynamic of your relationship from a father/son to something less comfortable. At least that's the way it is for me. So I Understand the OPs hesitation to collect rent.....it changes things dramatically.
Thank you, That is the clearest way of talking about this. It does change things, from a kid who can count on me to a mom who needs him. I don't want that shift even though we all know I need to charge something. I talked to him and he is trying to build some credit to get a car, So I thought about putting him on 2 bills instead of rent. He wasn't sure if it would build credit but then he got excited because if he has the internet bill he can decide to have more channels on TV if he wants to pay for it. So that feels better than just collecting a check from him.
iris lilies
2-27-16, 11:15am
Thank you, That is the clearest way of talking about this. It does change things, from a kid who can count on me to a mom who needs him. I don't want that shift even though we all know I need to charge something. I talked to him and he is trying to build some credit to get a car, So I thought about putting him on 2 bills instead of rent. He wasn't sure if it would build credit but then he got excited because if he has the internet bill he can decide to have more channels on TV if he wants to pay for it. So that feels better than just collecting a check from him.
I vote for charging him the low rates you are mentioning, $200 to $300, but heres the condition: he pays no matter what.
If he decides to walk off a job, he still owes $250. If he gets fired and can't get another job immediately, he still owes rent. That is good training for adulthood, rent is owed regardless of ability to pay.
I might also look at the percentage of income that government housing agencies say "should" go to rent, and I will bet those numbers are higher than what you will charge him. Show him that.
I would also be planning my move to a cheaper one bedroom apartment within 2 years. No room for kids. That will give you room in your budget to hit student loans.
Its a good idea to help your son build up credit, but doesnt that seem a little artificial given the "have more channels on TV" comment? In an ideal world, he would be paying appropriate percentages of your household's obligations from his money and he would find his fast food job affords him NO channels.
Well he still needs to get a car, so if he can afford extra channels after his car and insurance and the basic bills then that will be his learning experience :) Honestly he doesn't go out and do things, pretty much a homebody, so compared to someone else's entertainment expense he may choose to pinch some pennies to get that. And that is the lovely part of letting him learn,
Teacher Terry
2-27-16, 4:59pm
Low income apartments charge 30% of a person's income for rent. Kids figure life out by making some mistakes not by being told what to do so I agree with you ZG.
mschrisgo2
2-27-16, 11:35pm
ZoeGirl, you pay $85 more a month than I do, mine is a 540 sq ft 1 bedroom apartment in a suburban area 25 miles east of San Francisco CA. This is about $300 under market rate, because until 3 years ago, they were designated "senior apartments" and had a cap on rent increases. I've been here 7+ years, and my rent has increased $225 in the last 3 years, $75 a year. When I retire I will need to move at least 45 miles away to find "affordable" rent. I'm putting it off because my daughter and grandsons are near here, as are most pf my friends.
Ultralight
2-29-16, 8:43am
...good training for adulthood...
This is an antiquated practice.
Ultralight
2-29-16, 8:45am
When my son , 28 yoa , unexpectedly was served divorce papers it started a tornado of financial challenges. There was a house with joint mortgage, two cars with joint monthly payments and a little fragile daughter of four who loved both her mommy and daddy. She wanted to keep the house so he agreed to leave. Figuring a monthly budget out for him scared me. Any way I figured it, with child support he was staring at public assistance housing in a sketchy neighborhood.
So I ruminated over the idea of having him move in with us. He could afford to pay a monthly rent. In the end, I felt it was more important that he have his own place and so I chose to subsidize or be his safety net so he could have his independence. We found an apartment for $550/mo. In a decent neighborhood.
I have never ever given him money with the understanding that it was a loan. I have told him that it was not necessary for him to feel he had to pay it back. My point being, financial arrangements change the dynamic of your relationship from a father/son to something less comfortable. At least that's the way it is for me. So I Understand the OPs hesitation to collect rent.....it changes things dramatically.
You're a good man. I hope your son can power through these tough years. With your support, it might make it more tolerable for him to do so. And from what you said he works non-stop.
iris lilies
2-29-16, 10:03am
This is an antiquated practice.
What? Landlords no longer expect payment regardless of means to pay?
sign me up for that.
Ultralight
2-29-16, 10:04am
What? Landlords no longer expect payment regardless of means to pay?
sign me up for that.
I think we're making the same point. haha
Which, now that I think of it, is kinda wacky! !Splat!
rodeosweetheart
2-29-16, 10:27am
Zoe, my son went off to the PNC at 19 with two friends. They shared an apartment, and now he is Portland, and shares a house with about 5 other people. I think he found this latest from friends of friends, but before that, he found places on Craigslist.
He is very very happy with his current housing situation, where he has been 3-4 years. He does not pay more than what you are talking about. They tend to socialize together, eat together, and are generally more of a commune experience, and they enjoy life.
Do you think your son might want something like that, and then you get a smaller apartment?
I actually really like having him and his girlfriend here. A one bedroom in my complex wouldn't be that much cheaper honestly, about the difference when I charge them rent actually. Last night it was nice to have them to chat with when he got home from work, they went to the park and ran! very unusual, and then made dinner, which is usual, we talked about the cats. There are not a lot of things that either of us could do that we can't right now in our lives because he lives with me. So I think that this will be okay, I am done with my BK payments in the summer, raises are in September and I am charging them (pretty close to the 30% actually).
rodeosweetheart
2-29-16, 10:40am
So glad you are getting the BK payments done--wonderful, and how great the raise is coming!
It sounds like the living arrangement is working well for all!
Ultralight
2-29-16, 10:40am
I actually really like having him and his girlfriend here. A one bedroom in my complex wouldn't be that much cheaper honestly, about the difference when I charge them rent actually. Last night it was nice to have them to chat with when he got home from work, they went to the park and ran! very unusual, and then made dinner, which is usual, we talked about the cats. There are not a lot of things that either of us could do that we can't right now in our lives because he lives with me. So I think that this will be okay, I am done with my BK payments in the summer, raises are in September and I am charging them (pretty close to the 30% actually).
His girlfriend lives there too?
You could reasonably split the rent three ways then.
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