View Full Version : wow conversation with ex
Some of you have heard plenty of the drama over the years with my ex. We have been divorced about 11 years, long time. In any case we are at the end of child support so he called about that and then started talking about some organizations we were in a long time ago and he still has stuff from. He is having a hard time letting go of it so talked quite awhile on that involvement. What came up was so interesting, he was talking about how these organizations made us feel 'special' and he was really struggling with that (and that we were in some low level cult thing probably, haha, never drank the koolaid or cleaned out a bank account). What is so mind boggling is that he really was a narcissist in many ways, that specialness seemed essential to him at the time. Some of our issues were that he was above doing dishes or working on the car and couldn't have the same allowance amount as me of course. You know the brand of the jeans and the fancy type of car or highest end bicycle have been a central part of his life for a long time.
AND, he was listening to me and taking advice!!
So I hope that what I shared will help him and he can feel a little more peace (and less ulcer). I recommended some specific meditation focuses and told him he could keep in touch. I think overall this will help his relationship with the kids, he has been getting better as he gets older.
Ultralight
1-25-16, 2:43pm
You have some grit.
I hope I never have to talk to my ex ever again.
I run across my ex all the time. She's one of the PCAs for our handicapped family member. It has been 13+ years since the divorce was final (almost as long as we were married) and she has chosen to thaw some of the ice that was directed my way for years. One of the rules of life I learned in the divorce is that the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. I am indifferent toward her now. Counseling has helped her be more indifferent.
DW and ex had their child in common, so they remained on friendly terms. I'm sure behind each other's backs they chat about each other's craziness but that's their deal. They kept it away from DD as much as possible and they can be adults for occasions like weddings, baby births, etc.
ZG, it's nice to see your ex become not only more of the person you'd hoped they would be, but more self-actualized in general. Good for you!
Zoe Girl, you're very generous to interact with your ex in such a mindful way.
Looking back at my exes (official and unofficial), I see that the common thread was their emotional immaturity, some worse than others. I think that any serious relationship in my future has to be with a partner who is emotionally mature first and foremost, because all of the ups and downs in life can be handled as adults.
I've definitely cured myself from being involved in these "fixer-upper" relationships. Maybe that was your situation too, but isn't it nice to relate adult-to-adult?
Thank you Lainey, it would be easy to let the really bad years take over everything, geez the guy lied about a psychiatrist to try and have our son put in a mental hospital for truancy, but people are not just one thing. And it was really good to know that the guy I really liked was still there. I cant change him by being nice but honestly holding onto the bad stuff just is too much energy. And I want my kids to know this guy.
He even started meditating again, hard to stay crappy with a good amount of meditation although I have seen it happen!
Teacher Terry
1-26-16, 1:38pm
Good for you AG! I have been divorced from my kids dad for 18 years and we were married 22. We talk occasionally about the kids, when they come to town I make his favorite dinner and he does the same for me, we attend all events (weddings, graduations) for adult kids together, etc. We get along much better than when married and both our spouses are fine with this. One of my sons said that we can all be together as a family sometimes made the divorce bare able. When the adult kids were younger we helped them together a few times with $ and split the amount so not a burden on either of us. I think it's a lasting gift you give your kids but both people have to be willing.
freshstart
1-26-16, 1:43pm
I've been separated then divorced since '02. Child support goes to 21. My ex made my life more of a living hell after the divorce than when we were married. DD turns 21 in 5 yrs. I have served 3/4 of my sentence. I stopped hating but he made that really hard. I still actively dislike him but for my own sake have dialed back the hate and Steve is right, the opposite of love is indifference. I act indifferent for my sanity, but my indifference makes him angrier. I have given up on co-parenting. Yes, it took me a solid decade to accept he was not going to change and co-parent with me for the sake of the kids. Instead he is a walking, talking example of a person who lives for alienation of affection of the other parent and this is a game that can only have one winner and right now, he is the winner. But I'm not playing. Someday I hope my kids will realize the real truth.
The only help I'd give him is an accidental push into traffic.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 1:52pm
I've been separated then divorced since '02. Child support goes to 21. My ex made my life more of a living hell after the divorce than when we were married. DD turns 21 in 5 yrs. I have served 3/4 of my sentence. I stopped hating but he made that really hard. I still actively dislike him but for my own sake have dialed back the hate and Steve is right, the opposite of love is indifference. I act indifferent for my sanity, but my indifference makes him angrier. I have given up on co-parenting. Yes, it took me a solid decade to accept he was not going to change and co-parent with me for the sake of the kids. Instead he is a walking, talking example of a person who lives for alienation of affection of the other parent and this is a game that can only have one winner and right now, he is the winner. But I'm not playing. Someday I hope my kids will realize the real truth.
The only help I'd give him is an accidental push into traffic.
You have to pay child support for 21 years?!
Williamsmith
1-26-16, 2:07pm
I've been separated then divorced since '02. Child support goes to 21. My ex made my life more of a living hell after the divorce than when we were married. DD turns 21 in 5 yrs. I have served 3/4 of my sentence. I stopped hating but he made that really hard. I still actively dislike him but for my own sake have dialed back the hate and Steve is right, the opposite of love is indifference. I act indifferent for my sanity, but my indifference makes him angrier. I have given up on co-parenting. Yes, it took me a solid decade to accept he was not going to change and co-parent with me for the sake of the kids. Instead he is a walking, talking example of a person who lives for alienation of affection of the other parent and this is a game that can only have one winner and right now, he is the winner. But I'm not playing. Someday I hope my kids will realize the real truth.
The only help I'd give him is an accidental push into traffic.
Dying in a fiery crash........is a popular option also.
Mine was until the kids were 19, it can be longer if the child has some type of challenge or if there is no agreement about college or job training.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 3:06pm
Mine was until the kids were 19, it can be longer if the child has some type of challenge or if there is no agreement about college or job training.
That sounds so horrible in so many ways.
That sounds so horrible in so many ways.
Well if you are taking care of the kids that long and there is a huge income difference (my ex makes about 3 times what I do and I have had kids full time solo for 10 years) then it is appropriate IMHO. My kids all lived with me well past 18, see the post on Denver housing prices. Very different if incomes are about equal or if the kids actually go back and forth. But this is part of a negotiated settlement during the divorce proceedings.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 3:21pm
Well if you are taking care of the kids that long and there is a huge income difference (my ex makes about 3 times what I do and I have had kids full time solo for 10 years) then it is appropriate IMHO. My kids all lived with me well past 18, see the post on Denver housing prices. Very different if incomes are about equal or if the kids actually go back and forth. But this is part of a negotiated settlement during the divorce proceedings.
A friend of mine has three kids by two different dads. She gets $600+ a month for her first two from the first dad. She gets $300 (or so) a month for the third kid from the second dad.
Williamsmith
1-26-16, 4:43pm
A friend of mine has three kids by two different dads. She gets $600+ a month for her first two from the first dad. She gets $300 (or so) a month for the third kid from the second dad.
I guess she picks her daddy's well. First piece of business.....make sure they work.
freshstart
1-26-16, 5:03pm
You have to pay child support for 21 years?!
that was in our agreement but if it goes before a judge and she sees what I make, she may say 18 and done. Since DD got too overwhelmed in the Spring when I was really sick and my mom having an end stage illness, she asked to live primarily with ex. I agreed as long as I had generous visitation. he sued me for custody (that I did not contest), dragged it out for 10 mos.
That's finally done, now we have to figure out what I will owe in child support. So this will be the first time that it's me paying. But it's all messed up, 1900k of the long term disability I get now is really just a loan, I have to give them my 2 yrs of back SS pay when I get it. So I really only get $1100 free and clear. He will get $450 a month for the 24 months I was waiting for SSDI. But he wants that now and he wants now plus the $450 a month huge settlement he'll get. That's $900 a month in child support from a woman who is clearing $1100. Hopefully, he will come to reason or back to court we go. He doesn't even seem to care that he is spending like 10k every time he sues me. He just likes digging the knife in that much.
freshstart
1-26-16, 5:17pm
That sounds so horrible in so many ways.
but why shouldn't a dad (or mom) have to support their children? Even though my income is paltry, I know I have to pay. in NYS the minimum is 17% of your income, 25% for two. If a judge rules my income is really $1100, that is at or near the poverty line and I would owe $25-$50. I am ashamed to not be able to contribute a decent amount (without digging into retirement accts that I need to last for 40 more yrs).
It is staggering the cost to raise a child. If a man or woman does not want to do that, then birth control every single time.
A friend of mine has three kids by two different dads. She gets $600+ a month for her first two from the first dad. She gets $300 (or so) a month for the third kid from the second dad.
That seems reasonable, it sure costs a lot more than $300/mo to raise a child. That wouldn't even pay for child care around here and this is considered a low cost living area. I know my DB/SIL pay $650 a month for a preschooler.
freshstart
1-26-16, 6:12pm
I guess she picks her daddy's well. First piece of business.....make sure they work.
I'm probably taking this wrong, but the men were equal participants in picking a baby mama unless she lied about birth control. It gives to me a belief that you all think she is sitting home, popping out babies to collect child support. When she could very well have a job of her own and her children were actually planned. The post sounds judge-y
freshstart
1-26-16, 6:20pm
You have to pay child support for 21 years?!
I was not clear, by saying I've served 3/4 of my sentence I was referring to having to deal with my ex for 20 long, painful years. He really has made it his life's mission to make sure I go down. When DD is 21 or out of college, I will never, not ever speak to him again unless one of our children needs our help. I didn't mean I was 3/4 of the way done paying child support. He paid that until now.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 6:40pm
I'm probably taking this wrong, but the men were equal participants in picking a baby mama unless she lied about birth control. It gives to me a belief that you all think she is sitting home, popping out babies to collect child support. When she could very well have a job of her own and her children were actually planned. The post sounds judge-y
Her kids were not really planned. The first two were "I'll quit using birth control and see what happens."
The third one the guy told her he was infertile because his "semen was clear, rather than milky white."
She worked part time for a while. Now she works full time as an Americorps volunteer. She gets lots of support from the government for childcare and whatnot
Ultralight
1-26-16, 6:42pm
I guess she picks her daddy's well. First piece of business.....make sure they work.
Well, the one who was paying $600+ per kid recently got discharged from the military after 15 years. So he stiffed her once his savings ran out.
Williamsmith
1-26-16, 8:06pm
I'm probably taking this wrong, but the men were equal participants in picking a baby mama unless she lied about birth control. It gives to me a belief that you all think she is sitting home, popping out babies to collect child support. When she could very well have a job of her own and her children were actually planned. The post sounds judge-y
I like you freshstart......you call them the way you see them.
My sons wife left him. Then got an attorney and tried to get him evicted from the house. Then after he signs the divorce papers and after a 90 day waiting period the judge signs the papers and my son moves into an apartment. He's suppose to have his daughter every other weekend. So she turns him in to child services for abuse the day before her birthday and Thanksgiving. Since CYS doesn't have to have a disposition for a month they tell him he may not be able to see his daughter at least until then which would be past Christmas. How convenient. Then she sticks a tracking device on her wrist. CYS decides the case is unfounded. And not one word was every exchanged between her and me and I practically raised my granddaughter until age five. Child support is about one third his income.
So yes....some of that might have leaked into my sarcasm. Duly noted.
freshstart
1-26-16, 8:33pm
My sons wife left him. Then got an attorney and tried to get him evicted from the house. Then after he signs the divorce papers and after a 90 day waiting period the judge signs the papers and my son moves into an apartment. He's suppose to have his daughter every other weekend. So she turns him in to child services for abuse the day before her birthday and Thanksgiving. Since CYS doesn't have to have a disposition for a month they tell him he may not be able to see his daughter at least until then which would be past Christmas. How convenient. Then she sticks a tracking device on her wrist. CYS decides the case is unfounded. And not one word was every exchanged between her and me and I practically raised my granddaughter until age five. Child support is about one third his income.
So yes....some of that might have leaked into my sarcasm. Duly noted.
Can't blame you, your family's situation is awful. I'm sorry, that must be heartbreaking. I cannot stand when one of the divorced parties messes up the relationship with the parents and grandparents
I am fortunate that my my kids' dad and I were able to co-parent well together. My kids (17, 20, and 30) appreciate that their parents are on friendly terms, attend family functions together, graduation, school events, and even pet sit for/with each other. It is a bummer enough for kids when they have to live in two houses, the easier parents can make it (by getting along) the better kids fair. It is not divorce per se that is harmful for kids, but the conflict that is often associated with it.
As to child support, I willingly gave that up years before the kids reached age of majority. He made more than me (likely always will) but I made enough and we each supported the kids when in our respective households, and then shared other costs (camps, activities, and now college expenses).
I am feeling very good about my situation. There were some really terrible things but the kids have relationships with him. We have always lived under 30 minutes from each other, for awhile the kids could walk back and forth. And both parents can be crappy to each other, and some pretty great. But unfortunately a lot of people get stuck with the very worst qualities of their ex to deal with for a long time.
I would have preferred to earn more and not be dependent on child support for so long, but I also would have preferred to have those every other weekends off. The CS helped so I didn't have to call him about every medical bill or expense, I just paid it because that is what it was for. However what I would have preferred was not what happened and it has been a long time.
freshstart
1-27-16, 11:43am
my greatest regret in life will always be that we did not successfully co-parent, even though I did every single thing I could, anything a therapist recommended, read every book out there. It does not work, no matter how bad you want it to if the other person cannot take the blinders off and see what he is doing to his kids.
catherine
1-27-16, 12:02pm
That sounds so horrible in so many ways.
UA, I'm having a hard time understanding why you think it's horrible for a father to pay child support until the child is 21. What are the "so many ways" in which it's horrible?
Ultralight
1-27-16, 12:17pm
UA, I'm having a hard time understanding why you think it's horrible for a father to pay child support until the child is 21. What are the "so many ways" in which it's horrible?
Sorry, I just meant the whole broken family scenario.
Regarding the 21 thing, I just thought 18 was adulthood.
catherine
1-27-16, 12:20pm
Sorry, I just meant the whole broken family scenario.
Regarding the 21 thing, I just thought 18 was adulthood.
Gotcha. Yeah, it does get complicated. And I think the 18 vs. 21 thing does depend on how divorced parents decide to manage college etc., as I think freshstart or Zoegirl said.
Sorry, I just meant the whole broken family scenario.
I get it but my family was hurting and broken before the divorce. So I am grateful I live in a time when we have learned some divorce lessons around child support and the capability of fathers to parent.
Ultralight
1-27-16, 1:11pm
...the capability of fathers to parent.
???
That means that with divorce being more common we have moved beyond the model where mom got full custody, dad got a couple weekends a month and a month vacation a year maybe. Parents are more likely evaluated on their ability to parent than gender, which I think is a good thing overall. If there is an income inequality where dad pays child support then they are more likely to pay with a regular relationship with the children as well.
Ultralight
1-29-16, 10:46am
That means that with divorce being more common we have moved beyond the model where mom got full custody, dad got a couple weekends a month and a month vacation a year maybe. Parents are more likely evaluated on their ability to parent than gender, which I think is a good thing overall. If there is an income inequality where dad pays child support then they are more likely to pay with a regular relationship with the children as well.
I thought fathers had to pay or they get sent to jail.
Now they do, or some consequences. But that has not always been the case and the parent who was ordered to pay had no consequence if they didn't. So it has been a lot of changes over the last 30-40 years that divorce has become more common.
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