View Full Version : CDC: Young women should avoid alcohol unless using birth control
Is it just me or do they keep changing this?
(http://http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/02/02/cdc-urges-young-women-avoid-all-alcohol-unless-theyre-using-contraception/79701890/)http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/02/02/cdc-urges-young-women-avoid-all-alcohol-unless-theyre-using-contraception/79701890/
Teacher Terry
2-2-16, 6:42pm
They do keep changing it. I thought you had to be a heavy drinker to cause this. I never drank when pregnant but if someone has a few drinks before they know I doubt it will cause FAS.
ToomuchStuff
2-3-16, 12:10am
When will the warning be placed on bottles:
Using this product can help lead to pregnancy?!Splat!
Tell that to half of Europe. I'm sure most pregnant women of my parents' generation had the occasional beer or glass of wine with no effect at all. You'd thing FAS was a common occurrence, when it's rarely seen in any but the children of end-stage alcoholics. More scare tactics.
I'm sure most pregnant women of my parents' generation had the occasional beer or glass of wine with no effect at all.
How do you know there was no effect at all?
And if these are scare tactics, why do doctors want to scare women?
My generation was almost blissfully unaffected by all the mental/emotional problems seen in school now. At least in the schools I went to.
Scare tactics--headlines--generate clicks and doctor visits. Thus revenue.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/fetal-alcohol-syndrome/basics/symptoms/con-20021015
My generation was almost blissfully unaffected by all the mental/emotional problems seen in school now. At least in the schools I went to.
Sounds like that rationale would hold up to the rigor of the scientific method! Color me convinced.
No--purely anecdotal. But where's the evidence for large numbers of FAS sufferers? I say it's all hypothetical, and just more of the fog of fear the media are always spewing.
My mother always maintained that my youngest brother was a casualty of FAS. Hard to explain his cognitive deficiencies, but he's always had them. He's not stupid, but there's "something missing." He's never been able to get on in life. My mother said that she was drinking throughout her pregnancy--I don't know how heavily.
So, yeah, where is that slippery slope of how much alcohol is too much? I didn't drink at all when I was pregnant, although I'm pretty sure I conceived while under the influence on New Year's Eve, but that child is perfectly put-together.
Miss Cellane
2-3-16, 10:43am
The thing is, you really can't study the effect of alcohol during pregnancy in a clinical trial--it would be completely unethical to expose developing fetuses to alcohol, knowing that at some point, they will be affected.
So, in our litigation-happy culture, the safest thing for the government to do is to declare alcohol forbidden during pregnancy. If they say a glass or two a week wouldn't be harmful, then they run the risk of lawsuits if *anything* goes wrong in a pregnancy where a woman drank *any* alcohol. "But I thought it was okay to drink a bottle of wine a week, the government said so!" while hiding the fact that they ate junk food and took recreational drugs during the pregnancy, which also might have affected the baby.
Lots of pregnant women in the 50s and 60s had some alcohol. My mom was one of them. She was not a heavy drinker, however, and probably had the equivalent of about two bottles of wine total for each pregnancy. We all graduated from college and most of us have graduate degrees, so it doesn't seem to have affected us very badly.
Ultralight
2-3-16, 10:58am
This issue seems to have some parallel with corporal punishment. The research shows that corporal punishment makes kids have lower IQs.
This has been a point of discussion with my girlfriend.
Like a good godless liberal I am against hitting children. My GF thinks it is okay for parents to beat their kids.
I explained the situation of lower IQs of kids who get beat by their parents.
Her rationale is: "My mom hit me and my IQ is fine."
Then I had to explain to her this: "Suppose your IQ is 110. Is it possible that it could have been 120 without the whippings? Yes, it is possible. But you can't really know. What researchers do know is that kids who get beat have lower IQs than kids who do not get beat."
This made her think. But I doubt she changed her mind.
There are millions of factors that affect us throughout life--singularly or in concert. You can't concern yourself with all of them, although you can try if you like.
Ultralight
2-3-16, 11:25am
There are millions of factors that affect us throughout life--singularly or in concert. You can't concern yourself with all of them, although you can try if you like.
You can concern yourself with the biggies. And I would say -- if I were a woman -- getting hammered while preggers is a biggie that can be avoided.
That goes without saying. "Hammered" is not having a glass of wine or beer, clearly. There was a case years ago, here in Seattle, where a pregnant woman--nearly ready to deliver--was advised by her doctor to have a glass of wine to relax and let nature take its course, and her server made a big hullabaloo over it, refusing to serve her. (Note that no damage to development is likely to occur at nine months anyway.) The incidence of FAS btw, is thought to be about 1 in 1000 and I'm pretty sure that's much lower for well-nourished occasional drinkers.
Parenthetically, I've read various scare articles about how you can lower your child's IQ through various heinous acts like smoking while pregnant, having a low-birthweight baby, giving birth to a baby prematurely, smoking around a child, etc. etc.--which pretty much describes my early years. I have to laugh.
There was a case years ago, here in Seattle, where a pregnant woman--nearly ready to deliver--was advised by her doctor to have a glass of wine to relax and let nature take its course, and her server made a big hullabaloo over it, refusing to serve her.
I'm sure you're right that a glass of wine would not have done her baby harm, but good childbirth techniques like Lamaze would probably have been better advice, unless you want your doctor and his anesthetic toolbox take over, which was never my way. I may be a pushover in many ways, but childbirth was my experience and only mine. I wouldn't have let alcohol diminish that experience. As a result, I had one baby when the doctor wasn't looking (both my son and I exhibiting our rebellious streaks), and another in an ambulance before we got to the hospital (my daughter's a rebel, too), and I timed the other for before the doctor got out of another surgery but after I got to see who won the Showcase Showdown on the Price is Right. I never had any epidurals, drugs, or screaming fits. Breathing is a beautiful thing.
ApatheticNoMore
2-3-16, 12:33pm
It's also incredibly sexist when you think about it. Women from 15-44 are not supposed to touch alcohol, but men no problem. It's just a long line of that being prohibited to women that is of course allowed for men naturally .... That birth control should be taken seriously in general, yes of course. But we're supposed to believe that it's the end of the world if a woman has one drink and uses a condom or something - meh. And yes in Europe they are having their wine and I doubt they have lowered IQs, not those just drinking wine as part of their culture, the hard core addicts well yea. Lowered IQ? In Flint it would have been safer than the water.
Ultralight
2-3-16, 12:42pm
It's also incredibly sexist when you think about it.
You can't be serious about this, can you?
It's also incredibly sexist when you think about it. Women from 15-44 are not supposed to touch alcohol, but men no problem. It's just a long line of that being prohibited to women that is of course allowed for men naturally .... That birth control should be taken seriously in general, yes of course. But we're supposed to believe that it's the end of the world if a woman has one drink and uses a condom or something - meh. And yes in Europe they are having their wine and I doubt they have lowered IQs, not those just drinking wine as part of their culture, the hard core addicts well yea. Lowered IQ? In Flint it would have been safer than the water.
"They" are just getting around to studying how paternal behavior effects fetal outcomes, but it's pregnant women--by virtue of being visible--who bear the constant scrutiny.
Ultralight
2-3-16, 12:57pm
"They" are just getting around to studying how paternal behavior effects fetal outcomes, but it's pregnant women--by virtue of being visible--who bear the constant scrutiny.
You don't think the payload they are carrying around has anything to do with it? There is a lot at stake.
Teacher Terry
2-3-16, 1:00pm
We rarely had a client with FAS so it is fairly rare and when we did it was always because of a alcoholic mom that drank thru out the pregnancy. I never risked it when pregnant but I really doubt a few drinks will harm the baby.
No. Women's bodies are their own. Period. Recent draconian laws to the contrary.
The very presence of a fetus apparently gives every self-appointed scold the right/obligation/free pass to comment/criticize/judge at will.
I'm sure both of my parents had the occasional drink when I was in utero. Neither of them were heavy drinkers--I never saw either of them even tipsy--but no one thought anything of an occasional drink back then. So you can probably add that to the list of their transgressions. rrrrr
No. Women's bodies are their own. Period. Recent draconian laws to the contrary.
The very presence of a fetus apparently gives every self-appointed scold the right/obligation/free pass to comment/criticize/judge at will.
Here is the thing that is often forgotten:
When someone has a kid that kid is now part of a community, a city, a state, and this nation. So if we're going to have to deal with a mess later we ought to have some say in preventing the mess from being made.
rodeosweetheart
2-3-16, 1:24pm
No. Women's bodies are their own. Period. Recent draconian laws to the contrary.
The very presence of a fetus apparently gives every self-appointed scold the right/obligation/free pass to comment/criticize/judge at will.
+1000
Here is the thing that is often forgotten:
When someone has a kid that kid is now part of a community, a city, a state, and this nation. So if we're going to have to deal with a mess later we ought to have some say in preventing the mess from being made.
And where does this stop, exactly? Is it only women you plan to subject to this all-encompassing scrutiny?
And where does this stop, exactly? Is it only women you plan to subject to this all-encompassing scrutiny?
Where does the scrutiny stop? Uh... should it? It is only scrutiny, not policy.
Now do I think we need some policy changes? Yes.
And heck no! I have plenty of scrutiny to go around.
No. Women's bodies are their own. Period.
Where does this rationale end? Should women have the right to smoke crack?
I believe people should have the right to any self-destructive impulses they choose. We currently have laws prohibiting crack smoking.
I believe people should have the right to any self-destructive impulses they choose.
I mostly agree.
Miss Cellane
2-3-16, 5:23pm
I've yet to see any good research on what heavy loads of alcohol or drugs or caffeine or nicotine will do to a developing sperm. These studies are long overdue. So, yeah, the recommendations for women are sexist. What if half the problem is a sperm that was formed with a high level of alcohol in the father's bloodstream? Society will still end up blaming the mother for anything that's wrong with the baby.
Although if all the women in the US of childbearing years stayed sober all the time, they'd be better able to take a good, long, hard look at the man they are about to have sex with. And the birthrate might drop.
Here's a rebuttal to the new recommendation, with a link to a different study. http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/02/03/cdc_says_women_shouldn_t_drink_unless_they_re_on_b irth_control_are_they.html?utm_content=inf_24_2641 _2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_125fc75691f14820a4bed808b2404cd0
Miss Cellane
2-3-16, 5:26pm
And here's another interesting take on the matter. Takes into consideration the mother's drinking, other environmental factors, and genetics.
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2015/09/18/fetal-alcohol-syndrome-and-the-social-control-of-mothers/
Miss Cellane
2-3-16, 5:30pm
And here's another interesting take on the matter. Takes into consideration the mother's drinking, other environmental factors, and genetics.
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2015/09/18/fetal-alcohol-syndrome-and-the-social-control-of-mothers/
Another interesting study I read recently, although I don't have a link: when the father is much older then the risk for autism increases greatly. So now perhaps men should seriously consider getting sterilized in their 40s to prevent any increase in autistic babies being born...
Another interesting study I read recently, although I don't have a link: when the father is much older then the risk for autism increases greatly. So now perhaps men should seriously consider getting sterilized in their 40s to prevent any increase in autistic babies being born...
I agree!!! This is good info to know and a good idea.
Gabor Mate also cites fascinating studies about the role of parental stress on the health of an unborn child. He says that cortisol and other stress hormones get passed to the child and impacts their health at the cellular level.
The effects of trauma become multigenerational through repeated psychological dysfunctions. The new science of epigenetics is identifying the mechanisms that even affect gene functioning. The children of Holocaust survivors, for example, have altered genetic mechanisms leading to abnormal stress hormone levels. Animal studies are showing that the physiological effects of trauma can be passed on even to the third generation.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/good-health/gabor-mate-how-to-build-a-culture-of-good-health-20151116
LOL, When I read the title I thought the article was going to be about women being taken advantage of if they are under the influence of alcohol.
Gabor Mate also cites fascinating studies about the role of parental stress on the health of an unborn child. He says that cortisol and other stress hormones get passed to the child and impacts their health at the cellular level.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/good-health/gabor-mate-how-to-build-a-culture-of-good-health-20151116
Then we as a society need to make maternity leave start when women pee on the stick and provide them with a variety of stress-reducing services and such.
Then we as a society need to make maternity leave start when women pee on the stick and provide them with a variety of stress-reducing services and such.
Not sure maternity leave for an entire pregnancy would be a stress-reducing strategy for everyone. Some people find joy in work. I don't know what role the government can play when it comes to relieving the kind of extreme stress Mate is talking about, so I'm going to go Republican/Libertarian on you and say let people figure it out for themselves.
Not sure maternity leave for an entire pregnancy would be a stress-reducing strategy for everyone.
Nothing is ever good enough for you! haha
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