View Full Version : Article: White America’s ‘Broken Heart’
Ultralight
2-4-16, 11:48am
Wow... Just wow.
My girlfriend sent me this article. Normally I would just skim this sort of thing. But this article is compelling!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/white-americas-broken-heart.html?_r=0
There have been several essays on the Atlantic website about the decline of white middle aged male health and prosperity. For a host of reasons some named in your link. The world I knew growing up is definitely gone.
Ultralight
2-4-16, 12:23pm
This part is really something!
"The results from the Iowa caucuses revealed that Republican caucusgoers gave roughly even support to the top three finishers — Ted Cruz, a much-loathed anti-institutional who has shown a pyromaniac’s predilection for wanting to torch Washington rather than make it work; the real estate developer spouting nativist and even fascist policies with the fervor of a prosperity preacher; and Marco Rubio, a too-slick-to-be-trusted stripling who oozes ambition with every obviously rehearsed response."
This part is really something!
"The results from the Iowa caucuses revealed that Republican caucusgoers gave roughly even support to the top three finishers — Ted Cruz, a much-loathed anti-institutional who has shown a pyromaniac’s predilection for wanting to torch Washington rather than make it work; the real estate developer spouting nativist and even fascist policies with the fervor of a prosperity preacher; and Marco Rubio, a too-slick-to-be-trusted stripling who oozes ambition with every obviously rehearsed response."
A New York Times columnist blames the Republicans for cultural decline. Who would have thought it?
I agree more with David French's view:
There is no simple path out of despair. There is no government fix — though the government would do well to stop causing so much harm. At the heart of the biblical concept of repentance is the notion of “turning,” or changing course. We as a nation have much repenting to do — of easy choices, of fashionable mockery, and, above all, of watching and doing nothing while our neighbors suffer, stagger, and ultimately fall into addiction and death.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426611/poor-white-deaths-american-cultural-ills
Ultralight
2-4-16, 12:43pm
A New York Times columnist blames the Republicans for cultural decline. Who would have thought it?
I agree more with David French's view:
There is no simple path out of despair. There is no government fix — though the government would do well to stop causing so much harm. At the heart of the biblical concept of repentance is the notion of “turning,” or changing course. We as a nation have much repenting to do — of easy choices, of fashionable mockery, and, above all, of watching and doing nothing while our neighbors suffer, stagger, and ultimately fall into addiction and death.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426611/poor-white-deaths-american-cultural-ills
I see some truth in both points of view.
most interesting. I have a question "why do the Republicans not like Bush? He seems to be level headed. Are they really holding his last name against him?
These other guys Trump, Cruz and Rubio seem like such fanatical nuts.
most interesting. I have a question "why do the Republicans not like Bush? He seems to be level headed. Are they really holding his last name against him?
These other guys Trump, Cruz and Rubio seem like such fanatical nuts.
Why? Because most republicans are such fanatical nuts.
:) I wish I could find someone to vote for instead of so many to vote against. Most Republicans are not fanatical nuts, it is just the nuts make more noise.
:) I wish I could find someone to vote for instead of so many to vote against. Most Republicans are not fanatical nuts, it is just the nuts make more noise.
Could be. ;)
ApatheticNoMore
2-4-16, 4:55pm
Indeed, the current urgency about inequality as an issue is really about how some white Americans are coming to live an experience that many minorities in this country have long lived — structural inequity has leapt the racial barrier — and that the legacy to which they fully assumed they were heirs is increasingly beyond their grasp.
Whatever dude. Tell that to Appalachia and places of deep generational white poverty. It's about some educated middle class people feeling more of the pain. It's leapt the class barrier is what has really happened I think. But dirt poor whites have probably always experienced it. They use more public assistance for the poor than blacks do and have always pretty much.
Blacks may have been treated worse than whites, but poor white people did not greatly benefit from this poor treatment of blacks. Just like the entire global north probably exploits the global south if one is truthful about it, but poor black people living in the ghetto do not greatly benefit from this, even though they live in the U.S..
Why? Because most republicans are such fanatical nuts.
Well, that will certainly lead to productive discussion....
Well, that will certainly lead to productive discussion....
I am generally very dubious about "productive discussion."
Gardenarian
2-5-16, 3:42pm
My dh and I are white middle class Americans and feel no despair of this kind. My greatest fears are for the environment.
I don't understand this broken-heartedness.
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-16, 4:12pm
It's not intended for those well into a secure middle class but for those like the middle aged people with little education that there was an article about, who were killing themselves, due perhaps to lack of economic prospects. It may be a stretch to call them middle class if one is honest of course. They aren't. I understand it easily and why they would be brokenhearted, they are falling into poverty, isn't that heart breaking? But for the grace ... As my bf said most everyone in America relates somewhat to them :\ - as something that could happen, or could have happened had one made other choices in life etc.. Mind you I also think they may lack some kind of psychological resilience to pull them through, that they need a source of belief stronger than economics to pull them through, whatever it is: a sense of community, or a philosophical belief system (I suggest stoicism) or spiritual belief - but that their external reality also sucks I don't doubt.
What I don't understand is idiot editorialist's who treat poor middle aged white people killing themselves as some kind of revenge for discrimination against blacks in this country (all very real of course). When those people are the least likely to have ever benefited from it (most of them probably did not come from much money, some might, but probably not most, or they would be better off now!!!). And it seems historically inaccurate, the commentators were better than the article: doesn't the the writer know about people who died in the mines to build this country (and still do), died in the factories and building railroads etc.. - many white, some Irish and less desired "whites" but many whites of all kinds, other races too.
Meanwhile while much of the country is mired in a struggle for barest survival it is unlikely to get them to care about the environment that much (mind you, they might still recycle, that one message has gotten out). Ever notice the environmental movement is so middle class and so white. I wish people cared more about the environment, but I'm inclined to think it's why they can't. Why the powers that be don't care about the environment, I have no idea, sociopathy maybe. :)
I agree with this writer who posted a comment to the article:
The irony of the white Americans who are currently dying of "broken hearts" (aided by alcoholism, heart disease and suicide) is that many of them voted for the very people who have off-shored their jobs, destroyed the unions that used to guarantee them a decent wage for a day's work, and slashed the social safety net that could have provided them with at least a modicum of stability as they navigated the massive technological changes which are altering our world in so many ways. They fell for the mantra of "no new taxes" over and over and assumed that welfare was always for "those people" so there was no reason to fear the cuts their elected officials continued to make. They deliberately voted for people who would destroy the government and are now angry that the government doesn't work for "people like me". Forgive me if my empathy is tinged with cynicism right now.
My dh and I are white middle class Americans and feel no despair of this kind. My greatest fears are for the environment.
I don't understand this broken-heartedness.
I think a lot of it is all these people feeling that something that never really was has been taken away from them. Like the "make America great again" folks - you never get told when this great America was that we should try to get back to, I think because what they want never really was.
I can sense it, like a general feeling, but I can't quite intellectually understand. I just have anecdotes. I know that personally I have had a hard time with many things in how the economy has been going because I feel I was supposed to do better. Not that it should have been handed to me in any way but as the economy and opportunity have shifted the old expectations are still there and I feel terrible that I have not lived up to them. I had to work at looking at the outside forces instead of just internalizing what was happening. All those years that I voted in opposition to some of these actions and policies I didn't have connection and support with the people who were the most affected either. I have a former friend with a type of slow growing cancer, a disabled son and an ex who is a cop and gets away with not paying child support. She votes against health care reforms, social services for her child, and less government control in many ways. Her vote supports policies where convicted abusers can get guns (her ex beat her). What I can tell from talking to her is that she has internalized the difficulty as her responsibility in many ways, and that is a tremendous weight. Somehow the 'make America great' message appeals to her (Trump supporter). Maybe that feels more in control than recognizing the outside forces that are literally going to kill her as she can't get medical treatment and relies on a hodge podge of family and inadequete services to get to work and care for her son. While we were still friends she finally accepted food assistance, the social workers were going nuts that she wasn't eating enough but kept on refusing help. When I left the friendship I had already been seeing signs of overdoing her pain medication. I think she is probably one of these people,
There is some disconnect with understanding how things really were in the good old days, that part drives me nuts. So more people could afford a home on a basic wage, and the homes were much smaller. A typical home was more like 1000 ft2. More kids behaved in school, and the schools punished learning disabilities and didn't serve seriously disabled kids. There were more opportunities (?) but not for people of color or differences like religion and gender. We love the idea so much of a self-made person that looking at these realities deeply is too much.
I agree with this writer who posted a comment to the article:
The irony of the white Americans who are currently dying of "broken hearts" (aided by alcoholism, heart disease and suicide) is that many of them voted for the very people who have off-shored their jobs, destroyed the unions that used to guarantee them a decent wage for a day's work, and slashed the social safety net that could have provided them with at least a modicum of stability as they navigated the massive technological changes which are altering our world in so many ways. They fell for the mantra of "no new taxes" over and over and assumed that welfare was always for "those people" so there was no reason to fear the cuts their elected officials continued to make. They deliberately voted for people who would destroy the government and are now angry that the government doesn't work for "people like me". Forgive me if my empathy is tinged with cynicism right now.
I can only agree with parts of this. There has been a vacuum created among the middle class due to cheap overseas labor and automation that have little to do with who votes for who. I would probably add that some have grown to expect a comfortable middle class lifestyle like previous generations as something of a right rather than a hard earned privileged. On top of things, the standard of what is considered middle class living has elevated to larger houses, more cars and more electronics. It's not just politics, but a failure to live up to expectations.
ApatheticNoMore
2-6-16, 1:49pm
The irony of the white Americans who are currently dying of "broken hearts" (aided by alcoholism, heart disease and suicide) is that many of them voted for the very people who have off-shored their jobs, destroyed the unions that used to guarantee them a decent wage for a day's work, and slashed the social safety net that could have provided them with at least a modicum of stability as they navigated the massive technological changes which are altering our world in so many ways.
How do you know. Poor people mostly don't vote at all, they don't have high turn out, but maybe if they were once not poor they did. So maybe they voted for Bill Clinton who off-shored their jobs. Signed NAFTA and GATT (despite all the protests in Seattle), got rid of welfare. One could claim that they voted for Reagan but the math doesn't add up, the 45 to 54 year old cohort profiled is only part even old enough to have done so. So they deserve it somehow because ...... Bill Clinton?
But you have to admit Bill was cute, and charming ....
I think a lot of it is all these people feeling that something that never really was has been taken away from them. Like the "make America great again" folks - you never get told when this great America was that we should try to get back to, I think because what they want never really was.
yes I make that case, that there has always been lots of poverty in this country etc.. But people think it's all new.
So more people could afford a home on a basic wage, and the homes were much smaller. A typical home was more like 1000 ft2.
no I don't believe this. The homes FROM THE 1930s, yes homes that are literally that old, go for about a million now. I don't believe that the homes are much bigger now. Because much of the housing stock here is NOT NEW. Although some people do add extensions to old houses of course. Much of the housing stock is old 1930s-1950s housing, and yet those homes are a million dollars, noone considers that they probably should be less in inflation adjusted dollars to account for how old they are, if housing prices hadn't increased more than inflation, which they definitely have here. I don't think bigger homes can really explain housing prices in this state, maybe somewhere in this country, but no housing prices here are not explainable by anything but massive price increases.
I do think a lot of people never could afford homes. Like my grandparents inherited a home by letting an older relative stay in her house with them with them when they were a young 20 something couple (it was a fairly spacious home) until she died. That kind of was the agreement, let her live there with them till she died and the home was all theirs without paying a penny (well taxes I guess). So it wasn't really starting off fresh and buying a home all by oneself as a couple or anything. But most people don't have an offer like that to ponder over these days I guess, or maybe not even then, unfortunately.
no I don't believe this. The homes FROM THE 1930s, yes homes that are literally that old, go for about a million now. I don't believe that the homes are much bigger now. Because much of the housing stock here is NOT NEW. Although some people do add extensions to old houses of course. Much of the housing stock is old 1930s-1950s housing, and yet those homes are a million dollars, noone considers that they probably should be less in inflation adjusted dollars to account for how old they are, if housing prices hadn't increased more than inflation, which they definitely have here. I don't think bigger homes can really explain housing prices in this state, maybe somewhere in this country, but no housing prices here are not explainable by anything but massive price increases.
I do think a lot of people never could afford homes. Like my grandparents inherited a home by letting an older relative stay in her house with them with them when they were a young 20 something couple (it was a fairly spacious home) until she died. That kind of was the agreement, let her live there with them till she died and the home was all theirs without paying a penny (well taxes I guess). So it wasn't really starting off fresh and buying a home all by oneself as a couple or anything. But most people don't have an offer like that to ponder over these days I guess, or maybe not even then, unfortunately.
I don't believe that most houses were tiny years ago. The trend I see in my family is that housing sizes have gone down precipitously. My grandparents lived in a 4400 sq ft house, my parents in a 2500 sq ft house, and I've lived in a 1000 sq ft condo. It seems to be related to the family size, which is generally declining. And yes, those houses of yesteryear were built around the turn of the 20th century, and built to last. Prices in Portland middle-class neighborhoods are trending from $750K to a million and up. I can't imagine how the average worker could afford to buy without some kind of family subsidy. Tragically--from my standpoint--many lovely old houses are being torn down in Portland so that builders can throw up tacky houses three to a lot for maximum profit--cheap at only $600K. It wouldn't be so bad if they moved the old house, or only targeted architecturally nondescript dwellings in poor repair. But they just mow down everything in their path. Friends who live there despair of the destruction. And none of it leads to affordable housing. I guess we have micro-apartments for that...>:(
I
Tragically--from my standpoint--many lovely old houses are being torn down in Portland so that builders can throw up tacky houses three to a lot for maximum profit--cheap at only $600K. It wouldn't be so bad if they moved the old house, or only targeted architecturally nondescript dwellings in poor repair. But they just mow down everything in their path. Friends who live there despair of the destruction. And none of it leads to affordable housing. I guess we have micro-apartments for that...>:(
I work in a swiftly gentrifying neighborhood. It is all over Denver. I see these traditional families in the neighborhood being pushed out, very sad. They are real people to me that have strong ties to the community but rent. Not large homes either. Many families have lived multi-generational for a long time and are just too squeezed. One of my fave families took in 9 grandchildren who were in abusive situations, the kids always show up well dressed and taken care of, I think they get some free lunch help but not much else since the entire family is involved. They lost their rental due to gentrification but made things work when one family member was able to buy and keep the kids in the school with the support systems they need.
When 2 bedroom older homes that needed the more expensive maintenance of older homes went to $750K I just about cried.
It's not intended for those well into a secure middle class but for those like the middle aged people with little education that there was an article about, who were killing themselves, due perhaps to lack of economic prospects. It may be a stretch to call them middle class if one is honest of course. They aren't. I understand it easily and why they would be brokenhearted, they are falling into poverty, isn't that heart breaking? But for the grace ... As my bf said most everyone in America relates somewhat to them :\ - as something that could happen, or could have happened had one made other choices in life etc.. Mind you I also think they may lack some kind of psychological resilience to pull them through, that they need a source of belief stronger than economics to pull them through, whatever it is: a sense of community, or a philosophical belief system (I suggest stoicism) or spiritual belief - but that their external reality also sucks I don't doubt.
What I don't understand is idiot editorialist's who treat poor middle aged white people killing themselves as some kind of revenge for discrimination against blacks in this country (all very real of course). When those people are the least likely to have ever benefited from it (most of them probably did not come from much money, some might, but probably not most, or they would be better off now!!!). And it seems historically inaccurate, the commentators were better than the article: doesn't the the writer know about people who died in the mines to build this country (and still do), died in the factories and building railroads etc.. - many white, some Irish and less desired "whites" but many whites of all kinds, other races too.
Meanwhile while much of the country is mired in a struggle for barest survival it is unlikely to get them to care about the environment that much (mind you, they might still recycle, that one message has gotten out). Ever notice the environmental movement is so middle class and so white. I wish people cared more about the environment, but I'm inclined to think it's why they can't. Why the powers that be don't care about the environment, I have no idea, sociopathy maybe. :)
Schadenfreude doesn't require a reason.
Williamsmith
2-8-16, 3:23pm
White Men have more difficulty dealing with financial hardships. They are more vulnerable to federal monetary policy. Encouraged to over extend themselves with debt based on 0% fed rates, quantitative easing and assets inflation they are the largest part of a grow by debt economy. When the bubble bursts, white males get hammered more than any other sector of the population. 1999 .com bubble, the 2008 housing bubble and now the government spending bubble. One thing about our gun ownership statistics......it will make it much more efficient the self elimination of people who thought falsely that they were rich but find out they own nothing. It is messy but very efficient.
From afsp.org
The annual suicide rate is 12.93 per 100,000 individuals.
Men die by suicide 3.5x more often than women.
On average, there are 117 suicides per day.
The Rate of suicide is highest in middle age — white men in particular.
White males accounted for 7 of 10suicides in 2013.
Firearms account for almost 50% of all suicide.
White Men have more difficulty dealing with financial hardships. They are more vulnerable to federal monetary policy. Encouraged to over extend themselves with debt based on 0% fed rates, quantitative easing and assets inflation they are the largest part of a grow by debt economy. When the bubble bursts, white males get hammered more than any other sector of the population. 1999 .com bubble, the 2008 housing bubble and now the government spending bubble. One thing about our gun ownership statistics......it will make it much more efficient the self elimination of people who thought falsely that they were rich but find out they own nothing. It is messy but very efficient.
From afsp.org
The annual suicide rate is 12.93 per 100,000 individuals.
Men die by suicide 3.5x more often than women.
On average, there are 117 suicides per day.
The Rate of suicide is highest in middle age — white men in particular.
White males accounted for 7 of 10suicides in 2013.
Firearms account for almost 50% of all suicide.
So it is like a self-cleaning oven?
Williamsmith
2-8-16, 8:11pm
So it is like a self-cleaning oven?
Actually, I find self cleaning ovens to not be self cleaning at all.
The really considerate white males ........go outside.
The really considerate white males ........go outside.
Really. It's quite inconsiderate to family members and first responders to make an unholy mess.
I had a white male suicide attempt just last week. Teenager. Decided partway into jumping off the cliff to change his mind. It's a bit dicey getting a disturbed person off a rock ledge over a 400 foot drop, btw....
And if he'd gone through with his original plan, it would have taken us a good day to do the body recovery, which would have been arduous, sorta dangerous, and really messy and offputting to folks.
Suicide-by-old-age is my plan.
White Men have more difficulty dealing with financial hardships. They are more vulnerable to federal monetary policy. Encouraged to over extend themselves with debt based on 0% fed rates, quantitative easing and assets inflation they are the largest part of a grow by debt economy. When the bubble bursts, white males get hammered more than any other sector of the population. 1999 .com bubble, the 2008 housing bubble and now the government spending bubble. One thing about our gun ownership statistics......it will make it much more efficient the self elimination of people who thought falsely that they were rich but find out they own nothing. It is messy but very efficient.
From afsp.org
The annual suicide rate is 12.93 per 100,000 individuals.
Men die by suicide 3.5x more often than women.
On average, there are 117 suicides per day.
The Rate of suicide is highest in middle age — white men in particular.
White males accounted for 7 of 10suicides in 2013.
Firearms account for almost 50% of all suicide.
I'm reminded of hot lips houlihan's comment to be BJ Hunneycutt in an episode of M*A*S*H when he was all pissy because his wife had had to take a job so that they could make the payments on the land they'd bought in Mill Valley, CA. I forget her exact words but they were to the effect of "did it ever occur to you that maybe you have more to lose because you just have more."
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