Economics of Voluntary Simplicity: "Why more and more means less"

[Ultralight]

http://timharford.com/2015/01/why-more-and-more-means-less/

This is some heavy stuff!

[iris lilies]

Sure clutter is a economic issue, for many reasons.

Principles of zero based budgeting could be applied to the stuff in our lives.

Figure out what you need, chuck the rest. But no one really does zero based budgeting for expenses or for stuff because it takes a lot of time to do it, time and thoughfuo decisions.

[Ultralight]

Sure clutter is a economic issue, for many reasons.

Principles of zero based budgeting could be applied to the stuff in our lives.

Figure out what you need, chuck the rest. But no one really does zero based budgeting for expenses or for stuff because it takes a lot of time to do it, time and thoughfuo decisions.

Zero-based budgeting?

[Tammy]

I enjoyed Kondo's book, in spite of the woo-woo that doesn't generally appeal to me.

I was talking with my youngest son last week. He's a true minimalist. can fit everything he owns into his small car.

It's so cheap to be this minimal. He's currently bartering his labor for a small bedroom (about 6x10 feet) in his brother's house. He's deciding whether to join the peace corps this summer, but until them he is doing big projects on the fixer upper house and helping with childcare. It's a win-win, cause my other son and his wife have a 9 year old son, and two foster children ages 2 and 1. They are busy and really can use the help.

We also talked about how cheap it is to live simply even with a family. My son and his wife share one car. Son lives about 4 miles from work and usually bikes there. His wife stays home to care for the kids. She home schools. Foster care brings in a little money. She uses the free day care for the little ones 2 half-days a week so she can concentrate on school with the older one. If she would decide to get an outside job, they would need a second car, would carpool kids to school and daycare every day on her way to work, would need more money for work wardrobe, gas, lunches, and probably do a lot of carryout for dinner as no one would have time for cooking. evenings would be spent doing chores at home and trying to catch up. They would probably be no farther ahead financially, and likely be farther behind.

My married son was telling me stories about people he works with who live that life. Each adult commutes 30-40 miles to work each way, plus daycare and school miles, etc etc. But they don't seem to have any insight into the cost of that life. He has asked them if they have done the math on whether they are any further ahead with two incomes - they look at him like that thought ever occurred to them.

[Ultralight]

I enjoyed Kondo's book, in spite of the woo-woo that doesn't generally appeal to me.

I was talking with my youngest son last week. He's a true minimalist. can fit everything he owns into his small car.

It's so cheap to be this minimal. He's currently bartering his labor for a small bedroom (about 6x10 feet) in his brother's house. He's deciding whether to join the peace corps this summer, but until them he is doing big projects on the fixer upper house and helping with childcare. It's a win-win, cause my other son and his wife have a 9 year old son, and two foster children ages 2 and 1. They are busy and really can use the help.

We also talked about how cheap it is to live simply even with a family. My son and his wife share one car. Son lives about 4 miles from work and usually bikes there. His wife stays home to care for the kids. She home schools. Foster care brings in a little money. She uses the free day care for the little ones 2 half-days a week so she can concentrate on school with the older one. If she would decide to get an outside job, they would need a second car, would carpool kids to school and daycare every day on her way to work, would need more money for work wardrobe, gas, lunches, and probably do a lot of carryout for dinner as no one would have time for cooking. evenings would be spent doing chores at home and trying to catch up. They would probably be no farther ahead financially, and likely be farther behind.

My married son was telling me stories about people he works with who live that life. Each adult commutes 30-40 miles to work each way, plus daycare and school miles, etc etc. But they don't seem to have any insight into the cost of that life. He has asked them if they have done the math on whether they are any further ahead with two incomes - they look at him like that thought ever occurred to them.

Really good stuff!

What does your true minimalist son do for hobbies?

[iris lilies]

Zero-based budgeting?

For corporate entities, it means that every expense is justified in some way. It combats a more common approach to budgeting which tends to build on a baseline or or impose arbitrary across the board cuts.

[ApatheticNoMore]

We also talked about how cheap it is to live simply even with a family. My son and his wife share one car. Son lives about 4 miles from work and usually bikes there. His wife stays home to care for the kids. She home schools. Foster care brings in a little money. She uses the free day care for the little ones 2 half-days a week so she can concentrate on school with the older one. If she would decide to get an outside job, they would need a second car, would carpool kids to school and daycare every day on her way to work, would need more money for work wardrobe, gas, lunches, and probably do a lot of carryout for dinner as no one would have time for cooking. evenings would be spent doing chores at home and trying to catch up. They would probably be no farther ahead financially, and likely be farther behind.

ok but what if they were to suddenly divorce? Would the wife have been better off having years in the workplace or having been a stay at home mom? Unless she can get serious alimony, probably the former. So maybe those people with two people working have looked at a side of life they haven't: like the fact 50% of marriages end in divorce.

[Ultralight]

ok but what if they were to suddenly divorce? Would the wife have been better off having years in the workplace or having been a stay at home mom? Unless she can get serious alimony, probably the former. So maybe those people with two people working have looked at a side of life they haven't: like the fact 50% of marriages end in divorce.

She'd get plenty of alimony and some of his social security too.

[Williamsmith]

My wife and I raised three kids for a decade on one income. She was a stay at home for those years. It took a big chunk of productive contribution out of her social security. Yet our three children seem to have benefited greatly from those years when mom was positively influencing them and making sure they sat down for dinner long enough to discuss any problems or concerns. Mom was making sure homework was being done, communicating with teachers, learning about friends and spending time with their grandparents. On one income we planned frugal vacations and used our resources wisely.

Since many marriages are lost over financial difficulties, Id argue that a couple who learns to live on one paycheck has a better that average chance of staying together. They learn to prioritize, share and sacrifice. If part of your planning includes a divorce retreat firewall, then you've made it too easy to use it.

Zero based budgeting must have been something similar to what my parents did to raise two kids on one salary of a humble steel worker.

[jp1]

I was talking with my youngest son last week. He's a true minimalist. can fit everything he owns into his small car.




Really good stuff!

What does your true minimalist son do for hobbies?

Perhaps he likes to go fishing and take his girlfriend out on nice dates twice a month. Oh, and occasionally impress people with his mad origami skills...

[Ultralight]

Perhaps he likes to go fishing and take his girlfriend out on nice dates twice a month. Oh, and occasionally impress people with his mad origami skills...

Ha! Then he must be a cool guy. I asked because I am always curious about minimalist hobbies and how people find fulfillment in them.

One of the gals in my voluntary simplicity class is a runner -- running is her passion! For the most part she just has a couple pairs of shoes, a GPS watch, and some tight-fitting clothing to run in.

[Tammy]

UL - my minimalist son teaches himself Spanish via duo lingo, travels out of the country on 1-3 month long trips, reads, bikes, plays poker (and consistently earns his living that way), and gardens. His reading often includes whole college textbooks on multiple topics. He doesn't see the point of paying for college anymore but he likes to learn stuff. He has an accounting degree which he paid for as he worked. I don't think he took loans along the way ...

[Tammy]

Yes - Divorce would upset the entire system. In more ways than just financial. But should a person live in fear of that and give up the life that makes best sense for the family? I guess that's an individual decision ...

[kally]

we are not minimilast, but live fairly simply. My hobbies are reading, playing the native american flute, walking and drawing. Not too much money invested there.

[Ultralight]

we are not minimilast, but live fairly simply. My hobbies are reading, playing the native american flute, walking and drawing. Not too much money invested there.

The Native American flute? That looks and sounds like it would be hard to play. I think there is someone else on here who plays it.

[Teacher Terry]

I did a combo of the two. I stayed home until my youngest went to school f.t. and then off to college and work for me.It made it easier because they were all older by then. My retirement did suffer for it but I am not sorry.

[lessisbest]

My wife and I raised three kids for a decade on one income. She was a stay at home for those years. It took a big chunk of productive contribution out of her social security. Yet our three children seem to have benefited greatly from those years when mom was positively influencing them and making sure they sat down for dinner long enough to discuss any problems or concerns. Mom was making sure homework was being done, communicating with teachers, learning about friends and spending time with their grandparents. On one income we planned frugal vacations and used our resources wisely.

Since many marriages are lost over financial difficulties, Id argue that a couple who learns to live on one paycheck has a better that average chance of staying together. They learn to prioritize, share and sacrifice. If part of your planning includes a divorce retreat firewall, then you've made it too easy to use it.

Zero based budgeting must have been something similar to what my parents did to raise two kids on one salary of a humble steel worker.

We did the same thing - with a twist. I stayed home with our children, but we always had lucrative home-based businesses that I could work, but they were in my husbands name and social security number. Therefore, I could still contribute to our household income, but didn't contribute to social security via a "job". Now that I'm on the cusp of drawing social security, I'll get 1/2 of what my husband gets, and we designed it that way. He's a high wage earner, and I never would have been able to draw the amount I'll be getting, even if I would have worked a "job".

Zero based budgeting is nothing more than giving each dollar a name. We even name our "walking around money" (aka allowance, blow-money). You can do an on-line budget -FREE- at Dave Ramsey's web site, which is essentially a zero based budget. http://www.daveramsey.com/home/

[bicyclist]

The main idea in the article appears to me that the cost of housing is such that people in high rent cities should seriously consider whether the stuff they accumulate is worth the rent that they pay. Places like London and New York City are incredibly expensive for most people. One could move to a rural area but is it possible to live less space with lower rent?