paid below minimum on student loan

[Zoe Girl]

whew, I have been scared and I haven't answered the calls from student loans. It is rather overwhelming. But today I just paid $100, not enough but at least I paid something. I am going to the financial counselor and then looking for a part time job I think, in addition to starting to charge rent to my kiddos (I wouldn't charge when I got child support for ethical reasons). Still it feels weirdly better to pay just something. With VERY tight budgeting I can pay the basic bills, rent went up, however this last month's test of budget showed I still have a deficit. I didn't get as strict as I could but I was comfortably strict, no out to eat, some coffee shop with friends, and a few big things like a car repair but that comes out of savings so it wouldn't count in the budget anyway. Still running short, sigh

But one minimal payment!

[Ultralight]

whew, I have been scared and I haven't answered the calls from student loans. It is rather overwhelming. But today I just paid $100, not enough but at least I paid something. I am going to the financial counselor and then looking for a part time job I think, in addition to starting to charge rent to my kiddos (I wouldn't charge when I got child support for ethical reasons). Still it feels weirdly better to pay just something. With VERY tight budgeting I can pay the basic bills, rent went up, however this last month's test of budget showed I still have a deficit. I didn't get as strict as I could but I was comfortably strict, no out to eat, some coffee shop with friends, and a few big things like a car repair but that comes out of savings so it wouldn't count in the budget anyway. Still running short, sigh

But one minimal payment!

Are your loans public or private?

[Zoe Girl]

all public,

[Ultralight]

all public,

Are you on the income based repayment plan?

[Zoe Girl]

Are you on the income based repayment plan?

Yes, still not making it the lowered payments

[Ultralight]

Yes, still not making it the lowered payments

Have you talked to them about this? They may have options for you to make even lower payments. If you are on IBR and doing the PSLF program then you absolutely have to make the payments to remain in the loan forgiveness program.

What about deferments and forbearance? Have you exhausted those?

[Williamsmith]

UA,

Deferment and forbearance are certainly options but it is my understanding that in both cases it is likely that interest will continued to accrue. At 6.8% on some loans.....that is a real shot to the gut, literally digging the hole deeper. It is true slavery. Or usury. Isn't it unbelievable that a new car buyer can get a 0% interest loan for 5 years and the government has to hammer people getting educations or learning skills with 6.8% loansharking?

A part time job is going to stretch the limits of your ability to cope. Many part time jobs are incompatible with full time employment. I have a son who works a full time job with overtime.....48 hrs per week and works a second part time job on the midnight shift for an additional 15 hrs or so a week. He averages around 60-65 hrs per week, doesn't get to see his daughter on his weekend and walks around like a zombie most of the time. He has one car loan. That's all the debt he has. Everything else is survival and he lives month to month without any savings. Most part time jobs are minimum wage and hardly worth the effort.

Most people in Zoe Girls situation are sharing rent or living with a family member to be able to make that student loan payment.

[Ultralight]

Deferment and forbearance are certainly options but it is my understanding that in both cases it is likely that interest will continued to accrue. At 6.8% on some loans.....that is a real shot to the gut, literally digging the hole deeper. It is true slavery. Or usury. Isn't it unbelievable that a new car buyer can get a 0% interest loan for 5 years and the government has to hammer people getting educations or learning skills with 6.8% loansharking?

I know forbearance means that interest accrues. I have used forbearance. I have also deferred. And it too allowed interest to accrue. I don't reckon if they still have or ever had deferments that suspend interest accruing, but they might. There just have not been many deferment options open to me in the first place, so I did not see how they affected interest accruing.

Believe me, I understand that this whole racket is usury. I am not entirely a slave -- more like an indentured servant. Same goes for ZG -- indentured servitude. I am asking her these questions to see if I might know of some angles that will make the servitude less onerous or perhaps shorter. I am 1.5 years into my 10 year indenture (and that is if all goes well!). If things don't go well and the PSLF program is taken away then my indenture could go 25 years or longer.


A part time job is going to stretch the limits of your ability to cope. Many part time jobs are incompatible with full time employment. I have a son who works a full time job with overtime.....48 hrs per week and works a second part time job on the midnight shift for an additional 15 hrs or so a week. He averages around 60-65 hrs per week, doesn't get to see his daughter on his weekend and walks around like a zombie most of the time. He has one car loan. That's all the debt he has. Everything else is survival and he lives month to month without any savings. Most part time jobs are minimum wage and hardly worth the effort.

I am sorry to hear about your son. That situation is truly inhumane. It is frightening really...

And I agree that part-time jobs are not worth it!


Most people in Zoe Girls situation are sharing rent or living with a family member to be able to make that student loan payment.

I am not sure about this. Remember, I make $45k before taxes, reductions, deductions, stealing, and various other forms of thievery. All told, by the time my check gets deposited it is whittled down to $2,500 a month. Then I have to pay rent, utilities, and a few other bills. My student loan payment is about $349 per month.

Let's say I made minimum wage. Then I would have $0 payments per month -- but they would still count as payments!

The scale slides.

Let's say I made $25k (AGI). Under income based repayment I'd have to pay $90 a month. If I worked for a non-profit or for the government I'd have to make this monthly payment for 10 years (120 total payments over this time period). Then the remainder of what I owe would be forgiven.

So when I hear about someone struggling to pay their loans I ask a lot of questions and see the whole picture. Because it is quite possible to toggle things in such a way as to make the loan payment affordable.

If a person opens an IRA then that adjusts their AGI down and makes their payments less. If a person has a kid or multiple kids then that lowers the payment way down.

See? There are lots of factors. So I was exploring some of these factors with ZG.

[Zoe Girl]

I am the older/mid generation (49) but I went back to grad school during my divorce. Then there was the low paying education jobs. Just under a year ago my district/department realized how underpaid we were in our job category and fixed that but that just brings me to survival in Denver with the rental situation. My son is going to start paying rent but also needs to save for a car so that will help. I am running a meetup and my real goal is to bring in a little money with something I am already doing and love, it is just once a month so we will see. And then the blog. At least those are not jobs to go to and get sucked into that part time second job deal. I did that for 5 years already while raising my kids, even with child support I needed to since I earned so little.

In any case I paid something, it is a step

[Ultralight]

As a student loan indentured servant I have interacted with many, many others struggling with student loans.

I have found there are three kinds of indentured servants.

1. The kind who do their absolute best to optimize the situation. They take advantage of every program and loophole. They diligently pay on time. They call their student loan servicer and check in at least once a month or so.

2. The kind who pay up big time but on time and unwisely. These folks pay the massive amounts in the standard payment plans without taking advantage of any of the programs or loopholes. They just seem like they do not want to engage with their student loan servicer because it is annoying and takes grit. So they just pay whatever they are told to pay and for however long. They live on Ramen and are run ragged, but they pay on time.

3. Then there are the kind who live in what I call "survival mode." These folks don't take advantage of any plans, programs, loopholes, or anything. They pay erratically (if at all). They often default, fall way behind, and have zero communications with their student loan servicer. For these folks, the pit is bottomless. They are not on IBR, even though it would help them. They did not take any forbearance or deferment, even though it might help them get their life together and get on track with payments. They are like a dazed and outclassed boxer on the ropes getting hammered on. Once in a while they throw a punch in there, but it does nothing to stop the onslaught.

The good news is that the 2s and 3s I described above can become 1s (or something close to it), but it takes work, grit, and determination. It takes prioritizing and lots of communication with the student loan servicer. It might take a job change or a lifestyle change, or both. But most 2s and 3s can become 1s, more or less.

[Ultralight]

This calculator is worth looking at and trying out, for anyone interested.

https://www.nelnet.com/pages/ibrcalculator.aspx?blockid=98,120,122,119,134

[Zoe Girl]

UA I was in the 1 category for a long time. I had 3 years into my PSLF, then I just couldn't pay the increased amount. I went into survival mode, I hope to get out of it. It would take knowing I could still eat and putting the loan as an automatic payment at the beginning of the month when I get my one paycheck.

I had really hoped when my landlord decided to sell the house I could find something cheaper, and I didn't. There are many factors about why I live here and a huge one is that my son can get to work easily. But rent is $1300 a month, typical for Denver and now the outlying suburbs are getting to that rent easily. So I need an additional income and as soon as I know I can afford the payment I will move back to level 1. Really really sad to have lost that, but I don't see many ways I could have managed it at the time.

Okay going to try not to cry today, (not trying to be melodramatic but this is hard)

[Tammy]

I'd be having the son pay rent starting right away - that would solve the problem while you consider other solutions over time.

It's ok for adult kids (18 and up) to pay a little. I know as a mom I still want to just help them out. And my kids are ages 27-32 this year! But it's good for them to pay their own way.

[Ultralight]

UA I was in the 1 category for a long time. I had 3 years into my PSLF, then I just couldn't pay the increased amount. I went into survival mode, I hope to get out of it. It would take knowing I could still eat and putting the loan as an automatic payment at the beginning of the month when I get my one paycheck.

I had really hoped when my landlord decided to sell the house I could find something cheaper, and I didn't. There are many factors about why I live here and a huge one is that my son can get to work easily. But rent is $1300 a month, typical for Denver and now the outlying suburbs are getting to that rent easily. So I need an additional income and as soon as I know I can afford the payment I will move back to level 1. Really really sad to have lost that, but I don't see many ways I could have managed it at the time.

Okay going to try not to cry today, (not trying to be melodramatic but this is hard)

Just be careful because if you make more money then you'll owe more money monthly if you stay on IBR.

And I totally understand that this is hard. Every month I see $$$ flowing out of my account and into oblivion.

And month after month, year after year, I see my life as an indentured servant and more and more bleak.

But I know it could turn much more bleak.

So as long as I can, I hope to stay in the 1s category.


So what happens to the 3 years you put into the PSLF program?

[Ultralight]

I'd be having the son pay rent starting right away - that would solve the problem while you consider other solutions over time.

It's ok for adult kids (18 and up) to pay a little. I know as a mom I still want to just help them out. And my kids are ages 27-32 this year! But it's good for them to pay their own way.

My parents kicked me out when I was 17 and a junior in high school. I stayed with my grandmother for about a year or so. Shortly after graduation I got a room mate and rented an apartment. I have been renting with room mates ever since.

Maybe a little "tough love" is in order, ZG?

[Zoe Girl]

He will be paying rent, we will work out how much. You get used to taking care of your kids and it is pretty hard on me to have lost that middle class lifestyle where I had enough space and it really wasn't a big impact to have another person here. I was able to manage cars for his sisters with them putting in money as well, He buys his own food already,

It just feels like crap to be this old and be struggling. It seems simple to have him pay for things, it is a lot of mommy grief however. I have been trying for 10 years since my divorce to get to a better place, this is as good as it is right now.

[Zoe Girl]

M
Maybe a little "tough love" is in order, ZG?

He is a good kid, my kids have all had a tough time. He has a lot of social anxiety but he is working full time! I honestly wasn't sure what he could do a year ago as far as self support because the anxiety and depression were pretty severe. So I am proud of him, and gentle, and I think we can work this out.

I think my 3 years are just gone, But I can do it again. I have a financial counselor that I need to see again.

[Ultralight]

He is a good kid, my kids have all had a tough time. He has a lot of social anxiety but he is working full time! I honestly wasn't sure what he could do a year ago as far as self support because the anxiety and depression were pretty severe. So I am proud of him, and gentle, and I think we can work this out.

I think my 3 years are just gone, But I can do it again. I have a financial counselor that I need to see again.

I see. I get it, as much as I can as someone who has not had kids (yet... and I hope to stay child-free).

My parents made a lot of mistakes, but a couple things I am glad about is the tough-love. It made me grizzled and gritty. Sure, those aren't most most charming of personality traits. But they are invaluable in tough-times and even more valuable at keeping tough times away.

Another thing I learned from my dad is conditional love. This has been very helpful to me as well.

[Zoe Girl]

I see. I get it, as much as I can as someone who has not had kids (yet... and I hope to stay child-free).

My parents made a lot of mistakes, but a couple things I am glad about is the tough-love. It made me grizzled and gritty. Sure, those aren't most most charming of personality traits. But they are invaluable in tough-times and even more valuable at keeping tough times away.

His dad is good at 'tough love', but tough love without compassion and empathy is pretty brutal.

[Tenngal]

sounds like you need a little cash income so the payment amount does not go up? My son-in-law is struggling with the same. He is on the income based agreement but does not seem to realize he will be paying 20 yrs at this rate. They live with me, pay no rent. Daughter does errands and housekeeping, he does yard work and little chores around the house.

[Zoe Girl]

I am thinking that I can take my tax refund and some leftover CS to make an account that is just for an automatic student loan payment. I am rather artsy and paying 100% of everything on time every month for 10 years just makes me want to give up. It is part of the reason I have not worked harder at this, to do all the work and screw up one payment is just devastating after all. I have never pulled it off on time, every month, years on end, on anything else. Then I can put money in as long as I have 2-3 months of the payment so it is never late. I can put my deposit in anytime as long as I keep enough in there. I am honestly at the point where I have a couple small IRA CD's and would use those in an emergency because the payoff in getting them wiped clean 5 - 10 years before retirement is more than all my IRA's cd's combined.

Okay feeling some hope.

[Ultralight]

His dad is good at 'tough love', but tough love without compassion and empathy is pretty brutal.

I kind of think that this is not an accurate description of tough love.

[Ultralight]

sounds like you need a little cash income so the payment amount does not go up? My son-in-law is struggling with the same. He is on the income based agreement but does not seem to realize he will be paying 20 yrs at this rate. They live with me, pay no rent. Daughter does errands and housekeeping, he does yard work and little chores around the house.

A cash job could help, but then you're still running yourself ragged to make a small handful of dollars.

Yes, he might be paying for 20 years. But at the end of the 20 year indenture he might end up paying less over all than if he paid it all off in 10 years or even 5 years. If he could work for the govt or a non-profit he could maybe get on the PSLF program.

No rent? Good lord. That is livin' the dream!

I pay $400 a month for a room along with 33% of the utils.

[Ultralight]

I am thinking that I can take my tax refund and some leftover CS to make an account that is just for an automatic student loan payment. I am rather artsy and paying 100% of everything on time every month for 10 years just makes me want to give up. It is part of the reason I have not worked harder at this, to do all the work and screw up one payment is just devastating after all. I have never pulled it off on time, every month, years on end, on anything else. Then I can put money in as long as I have 2-3 months of the payment so it is never late. I can put my deposit in anytime as long as I keep enough in there. I am honestly at the point where I have a couple small IRA CD's and would use those in an emergency because the payoff in getting them wiped clean 5 - 10 years before retirement is more than all my IRA's cd's combined.

Okay feeling some hope.

I am not sure what being artistic has to do with it. But I totally get the issue of feeling hopeless looking down ten years of monthly, on-time payments. And yes, one screw up can sink you.

Have you used all your forbearance periods? What about your deferment periods?

I had a total of 3 year of forbearance/deferments. I used two years to establish myself financially in other ways -- pay down debt, get an emergency fund saved up, etc. Then I started my 10 years of payments. If I have to, I could use my last year of forbearance/deferment if I hit some hard times. I can use it a month at a time or go all 12 months if needed.

If I lose my job I can get my payments deferred until I find a new job, and my IBR will stay intact and be adjusted according to my new income.

Perhaps an arrangement like this could get you back on track?

[Zoe Girl]

I have used a lot of this help, I got my 3 years in without making payments because of so many factors. But I need to make some calls, I actually feel a little less stressed by just thinking about paying. It has been hanging over my head like a giant weight.

[Ultralight]

I have used a lot of this help, I got my 3 years in without making payments because of so many factors. But I need to make some calls, I actually feel a little less stressed by just thinking about paying. It has been hanging over my head like a giant weight.

I call my student loan servicer once a month -- for no known reason. haha

If there is a reason to call that is in addition to my once per month call.

But I just call and check on my IBR, my direct-pay set-up, my PSLF program stuff, my contact info, etc. You gotta be on them at every turn.

Even then, things could go south at any time for a multitude of reasons.

[Williamsmith]

Reading this, I imagine all manner of young potential leaders in business and entrepreneurs being handicapped by their student loans just at the time they should be building a nice foundation and contributing to savings accounts or IRAs. And I see the system funneling these people toward government jobs, stunting their growth by sucking off any finances over and above subsistence living. And it kind of makes me sad or should I say I am disturbed.

[Ultralight]

Reading this, I imagine all manner of young potential leaders in business and entrepreneurs being handicapped by their student loans just at the time they should be building a nice foundation and contributing to savings accounts or IRAs.

Possibly, but I think the kind of folks who get stuck behind massive loans are like me -- liberal arts types, maybe fine artists too, and first-gen college students who just don't have much knowledge of how the real world works. The potential leaders and entrepreneurs probably come from backgrounds with a little more wherewithal and such.

Anyway, I have no mercantile spirit.


And I see the system funneling these people toward government jobs, stunting their growth by sucking off any finances over and above subsistence living. And it kind of makes me sad or should I say I am disturbed.

Well, maybe about the govt jobs. But the competition for jobs that qualify for PSLF is pretty steep. But yes, my IRAs suffer. That $349 a month could be a massive savings for retirement. I know full well that I will never retire. Ever.

[Ultralight]

But... one more thing.

And I hate to sound like a Republican here, but I think that if people educated themselves on the student loan rules and regs fewer people would have problems.

If they made it a priority to get the student loan stuff taken care of -- the programs, the loopholes, the auto-payments, etc. it would not be so onerous to pay.

Now here is the most republican part. One simply has to take responsibility for their loan situation. Maybe you have to abandon your dream to be a drummer in a funk band or put that rucksack trip across Eastern Europe on hold (forever). More than likely though, one just has to really prioritize. Think about like this:

A pack of ciggies costs what? $4?

One pack a day for 30 days is $120. If you make $30k a year then that $120 is what you'd pay in student loans each month. So quit puffing and start paying.

The same rationale could be made for that daily Starbucks coffee or that new car (could have bought a used Honda or a bicycle) or your underwater basket-weaving hobby that costs $200 a month.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well I don't necessarily think anyone saving only $349 a month toward retirement will ever retire either really, unless they start really young, but if that's $349 on top of a whole bunch else maybe.

But government jobs are increasingly what those I talk to see as the ONLY GOOD JOBS. I have heard expressed that despite all competition, we need to try to get government jobs, because a lot of private sector work comes with more horrendous conditions by the day (endless unpaid overtime etc. - are there any limit to the hours?). Now, of course not all private sector jobs are like that, but it gets worse by the day, and if one finds oneself in a situation where the only private sector jobs one can get are like that ... So I increasingly see government jobs as one very valid (but hard to get) escape plan from a crazy employment situation out there.

[Ultralight]

Well I don't necessarily think anyone saving only $349 a month toward retirement will ever retire either really, unless they start really young, but if that's $349 on top of a whole bunch else maybe.

Read carefully. I am not saving the $349; I am paying that monthly for my student loans. I am saving a different amount through my employer, but it is not enough to ever retire. What I am hoping is that I can save up enough to pay for medical bills in my old age; I will certainly have them if I am working well into my 70s. But if I live to be 75 I will stop going to the doctors anyway. (That is a whole different discussion.)


But government jobs are increasingly what those I talk to see as the ONLY GOOD JOBS. I have heard expressed that despite all competition, we need to try to get government jobs, because a lot of private sector work comes with more horrendous conditions by the day (endless unpaid overtime etc. - are there any limit to the hours?). Now, of course not all private sector jobs are like that, but it gets worse by the day, and if one finds oneself in a situation where the only private sector jobs one can get are like that ... So I increasingly see government jobs as one very valid (but hard to get) escape plan from a crazy employment situation out there.

I know my work situation could be a lot worse. Don't get me wrong.

[Dhiana]

but I think that if people educated themselves on the student loan rules and regs fewer people would have problems.

If they made it a priority to get the student loan stuff taken care of -- the programs, the loopholes, the auto-payments, etc. it would not be so onerous to pay.

All of my loans were being paid off perfectly through the auto-pay, etc for 9 1/2 years and then the rules were changed, my loan sold and the scamming company stopped following the auto payment contract to try to squeeze more money from me by saying I wasn't paying my loan.

Those auto payments reduced my interest rate owed. Scammers just wanted more money!
I had to take it all the way to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau!!

The rule changes were hidden within the Affordable Care Act.

It's IMPOSSIBLE for a regular educated human being to follow all the crazy rules perfectly when these kinds of shenanigans are happening.

[Ultralight]

All of my loans were being paid off perfectly through the auto-pay, etc for 9 1/2 years and then the rules were changed, my loan sold and the scamming company stopped following the auto payment contract to try to squeeze more money from me by saying I wasn't paying my loan.

Those auto payments reduced my interest rate owed. Scammers just wanted more money!
I had to take it all the way to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau!!

The rule changes were hidden within the Affordable Care Act.

It's IMPOSSIBLE for a regular educated human being to follow all the crazy rules perfectly when these kinds of shenanigans are happening.

I am not surprised. This kind of stuff happens. Which is why I call my student loan racketeers at least once a month to check on EVERYTHING.

But I know full well they might still sneak one past me.

You were not on the PSLF program though, right?

Which changes were in the Affordable Care Act? If you have any knowledge, please bestow it upon me. I need it as I owe $160k or something along that line.

[Dhiana]

I'm unfamiliar with the program you mentioned.

I was on a regular full payment payback plan, nothing special, consolidated them all with the Dept of Education and continued with full payment regular payback auto payments for at least another 5 or so years before the ACA allowed the sale of the Dept of Ed loans to private parties.

No notice was provided and auto-withdrawals continued after the loan changeover, 5 mos or so, so I never knew until the auto-payments stopped a bit earlier than expected.

Your phone calls mean nothing because you have no way to prove a phone call over the phone when something goes wrong.
I had an email trail and they still kept trying to scam me!!
That email trail I had proved my actions and I suspect got at least one person fired, the ombudsman was reprimanded, and proved my point.

CYA!

[Ultralight]

I'm unfamiliar with the program you mentioned.

I was on a regular full payment payback plan, nothing special, consolidated them all with the Dept of Education and continued with full payment regular payback auto payments for at least another 5 or so years before the ACA allowed the sale of the Dept of Ed loans to private parties.

No notice was provided and auto-withdrawals continued after the loan changeover, 5 mos or so, so I never knew until the auto-payments stopped a bit earlier than expected.

Your phone calls mean nothing because you have no way to prove a phone call over the phone when something goes wrong.
I had an email trail and they still kept trying to scam me!!
That email trail I had proved my actions and I suspect got at least one person fired, the ombudsman was reprimanded, and proved my point.

CYA!

Good call on the emails! I might start emailing them more often. :)

I have them snail mail certain documents to me, like how many payments I made and such.


So what happened with your loans? You still paying?

[Zoe Girl]

I pay $400 a month for a room along with 33% of the utils.

Dude, that is amazing. I hate to sound rude but with that amount of rent I would not be having problems paying my loans at all. I don't have medical bills or a car loan or any other debt to worry about.

[Dhiana]

Good call on the emails! I might start emailing them more often. :)

I have them snail mail certain documents to me, like how many payments I made and such.


So what happened with your loans? You still paying?

Good Luck getting them to email you. Companies hate doing business by email with customers.

The student loan company did restart the auto-withdrawals after my complaints that they weren't following the contracts
to the ombudsman, my lawyer and her connection at the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau.

I only had about 6 payments left to go, I firmly believe it was their way to soak as much money out of me as possible
before it ended.
I refused to be intimidated.

[Ultralight]

Dude, that is amazing. I hate to sound rude but with that amount of rent I would not be having problems paying my loans at all. I don't have medical bills or a car loan or any other debt to worry about.

I live in a lower-middle class suburb in a three bedroom house with two housemates (my sis and BIL). Their house payment is just under $1200 a month. So I am paying a portion of their house payment, in essence and in cash.

I have been living with them for almost 3 years. Just because we are related does not mean it is not a business contract. And just because we are related does not mean that any of us are exempt from paying our share.

By May 1st I will need to find my own apartment, which will be around $700 or $800 a month. My plan is to move very close to my job so that I can walk and bike to work, this way I can off-set much of the increase in my rent by saving on gasoline, wear and tear on my car, and opportunity costs. I will also live close to a grocery and pharmacy; again -- this means I can walk there instead of drive and offset more of the increase in rent. I will also need to tighten my belt to some extent as well.

[Zoe Girl]

UL, I didn't know the situation and I assumed that you paid it and weren't getting any breaks. But nothing, totally nothing, in Denver is that price. SO I wonder if student loans will take into account the cost of living in an area.

I guess I would just feel grateful if I even could get a one bedroom for $700-800, I know one friend who pays about that for her apartment which is a large studio in a very old house. She has been there for ages so she is almost market rate, still would be difficult to find. I moved in May so I do know what is out there.

[Ultralight]

UL, I didn't know the situation and I assumed that you paid it and weren't getting any breaks. But nothing, totally nothing, in Denver is that price. SO I wonder if student loans will take into account the cost of living in an area.

I guess I would just feel grateful if I even could get a one bedroom for $700-800, I know one friend who pays about that for her apartment which is a large studio in a very old house. She has been there for ages so she is almost market rate, still would be difficult to find. I moved in May so I do know what is out there.

I don't think student loan servicers take into account cost of living. But it might be worth contacting them and simply telling them all the reasons you cannot afford to pay. And then ask: "What can be done? Can we make some special arrangement?"

That is not especially likely to work. But I would ask. I am an asker in life. haha

Could you move to a state with lower cost of living?

Check out this list:

http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-10-cheapest-u-s-cities-to-live-in/index.html

[Zoe Girl]

[QUOTE=UltraliteAngler;233374

That is not especially likely to work. But I would ask. I am an asker in life. haha

Could you move to a state with lower cost of living?
[/QUOTE]

I can ask, no harm in that.

As far as moving I would rather work a second job than be far away from my kids (or all the Colorado things I love like hiking and mountains and culture). And jobs in my field are not easy to get a living wage in. I know people who have quit and not had another comparable job, ever. So there are ways to work with this, but I want to stick with my sense of 'home'.

Maybe all the bordering states will make pot legal and then some people will leave, :)

[LDAHL]

But... one more thing.

And I hate to sound like a Republican here, but I think that if people educated themselves on the student loan rules and regs fewer people would have problems.

If they made it a priority to get the student loan stuff taken care of -- the programs, the loopholes, the auto-payments, etc. it would not be so onerous to pay.

Now here is the most republican part. One simply has to take responsibility for their loan situation. Maybe you have to abandon your dream to be a drummer in a funk band or put that rucksack trip across Eastern Europe on hold (forever). More than likely though, one just has to really prioritize. Think about like this:

A pack of ciggies costs what? $4?

One pack a day for 30 days is $120. If you make $30k a year then that $120 is what you'd pay in student loans each month. So quit puffing and start paying.

The same rationale could be made for that daily Starbucks coffee or that new car (could have bought a used Honda or a bicycle) or your underwater basket-weaving hobby that costs $200 a month.

Clearly, accountability, discipline and a sense of personal responsibility are not exclusively Republican virtues. I don't know that I've quite figured you out, but I'm pretty sure you're not a Republican. Yet.

There are any number of circumstances we can find ourselves in that can make us feel "indentured": Debt, parenthood, the sort of jobs where you need to swear an oath, employment contracts or terms, ailing parents or any number of other issues. How we handle our obligations is one way we reveal our character to ourselves.

Your strategy for minimizing and ultimately eliminating your student loan seems well-considered. I'm curious about what changes you might make after it's no longer an issue.

[Ultralight]

Clearly, accountability, discipline and a sense of personal responsibility are not exclusively Republican virtues. I don't know that I've quite figured you out, but I'm pretty sure you're not a Republican. Yet.

There are any number of circumstances we can find ourselves in that can make us feel "indentured": Debt, parenthood, the sort of jobs where you need to swear an oath, employment contracts or terms, ailing parents or any number of other issues. How we handle our obligations is one way we reveal our character to ourselves.

Your strategy for minimizing and ultimately eliminating your student loan seems well-considered. I'm curious about what changes you might make after it's no longer an issue.

Yet? LOL

If all goes well and I get my loans forgiven in 8.5 more years (give or take) then I am going to do two things:

1. Put much more in my retirement vehicles.
2. Donate a little bit to causes I care about (Camp Quest, for instance, which is an outdoors organization for atheist kids and to my local secular group). Ideally I'd like to create some sort of account I put a wee bit of money into each month so I can leave a planned gift when I exit stage left.

Also: You make some pretty dang good points about the various ways in which we can find ourselves indentured.

[Williamsmith]

I managed to hit every one of the "indentured" scenarios but I do not in any way feel burdened. Challenged.....sometimes a winding up and down road yes. Still, I hate that education is costing so much and feel our colleges should be doing something to alleviate this.

[LDAHL]

Yet? LOL

If all goes well and I get my loans forgiven in 8.5 more years (give or take) then I am going to do two things:

1. Put much more in my retirement vehicles.
2. Donate a little bit to causes I care about (Camp Quest, for instance, which is an outdoors organization for atheist kids and to my local secular group). Ideally I'd like to create some sort of account I put a wee bit of money into each month so I can leave a planned gift when I exit stage left.

Also: You make some pretty dang good points about the various ways in which we can find ourselves indentured.

By that time, you'll also have a decade in the position, with whatever seniority, vested pension credits, etc. that may entail. That in itself could weigh against moving on. But at least it's being driven more by the carrot than the stick at that point.

[Ultralight]

By that time, you'll also have a decade in the position, with whatever seniority, vested pension credits, etc. that may entail. That in itself could weigh against moving on. But at least it's being driven more by the carrot than the stick at that point.

True. I am signing up for free classes because employees of the University can take classes without tuition. Nice perk, in a way. haha

So I am hoping to possibly change the trajectory of my career over the next 8.5 years. We'll see.

[LDAHL]

True. I am signing up for free classes because employees of the University can take classes without tuition. Nice perk, in a way. haha

So I am hoping to possibly change the trajectory of my career over the next 8.5 years. We'll see.

That has to be a pretty valuable tax-free perk.

They say you should always have your next two career steps planned out. Although I'll admit to the key role played by fortunate blunders in mine.

[Ultralight]

...you should always have your next two career steps planned out.

Never heard this, though I think it is smart! I am going to use it.

I could go for a fortunate blunder here and there! haha

[iris lilies]

Is a little irony in talking about free college tuition on a thread that is about debilitating student loans.