Beauty: Cultured and Uncultured

[catherine]

I'm putting this in Gardening and Farming because that was the context in which this question first came to me, but it's really a very open question about beauty. As humans, beauty greatly enhances our quality of life, but it's hard to define, it's often very subjective, but we are hard-wired to respond to it.

So I really want to keep the responses broad.

When I was in my permaculture class, one of the students, an older, very classy woman who was a big player in her town Garden Club, noted that the community gardens that our teacher showed us pictures of were not very pretty--in fact a lot of the pictures of yards gone wild we were seeing were not beautiful in the traditional manicured way.

So my teacher said "Permaculture asks that you look differently at what's beautiful."

One of my favorite little side trips I've taken on business was to the Portland Japanese Garden. What an experience!!! OMG, if you ever have the chance to go, you must. It really holds the tension so beautifully between that natural loveliness boosted by the human helping hand.

I think simple living sometimes ignores beauty because I think the danger in pursuing the SL lifestyle is to start believing beauty is not important, or superfluous, or expensive. Or maybe simple livers have redefined beauty, per my permaculture teacher.

So my question is: What is beauty to you? Where do you find it? How do you use it to enhance your life? How do you create it in your life? And how much cultured beauty is too much?

[iris lilies]

I wish I could say that I have an innate appreciation of natural beauty, but I do not. That has never been my aesthetic, I like man-made things. Now, I do agree that this outlook is likely a matter of training, you can train your eye for more natural experiences.

I just hung vintage saris at my windows, I've been collecting them for a few years. These are highly manufactured items, but from natural elements. Silk, and probably artificial dyes. They are simple and inexpensive, yet, are an awesome display of man's ingenuity. I mean who ever thought up the business of spinning that silkworm's strands into thread and then weaving them? That happened thousands of years ago in China. And now I've got fabulously intricate designs in these items, made by a human, for just a few dollars. This is the brilliance of mankind!

I love bulldogs as ya'll know and there is nothing natural about them, they are the most manufactured dog breed on the planet. I am not proud of that. I wish that I didn't love bulldogs. Bulldog love accounts for the overbreeding of this breed (well, that and the fact that at the moment they are very fashionable. Ugh.) But I love them, they are beautiful, the squishy faces are sublime, what can I say? So I feel obligated to help with Bulldog Rescue because it is just awful what we do to these dogs. I am conflicted. I wish I found long-snouted dogs beautiful (well, I do, but just not to the same extent.)

So these two examples are the ones that immediately came into my mind. One, the silk saris, are cultured but not "over cultured." The bulldogs, now, there is too much man made influence there.

[catherine]

Great examples, IL! I LOVE the idea of vintage saris as window treatments! I'd love to see pictures. You're right about how amazing the story behind those saris is!

I didn't realize the bulldogs were "manufactured." And that's another interesting example of what I'm talking about.. the dog show was just on last week and those dogs are beautiful! Some might say that the extensive grooming and little hairdos etc. is too much. My dog is the scruffiest ragamuffin you've ever seen--part border collie, part lab, and part terrier. So she's like a strange bearded aberration of a black and white mottled lab. She has ears with a few ridiculously long strands just randomly growing out and needing to be cut. When people are admiring dogs at the dog park, no one ever admires her. But I think she's beautiful!


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[ApatheticNoMore]

I think simple living sometimes ignores beauty because I think the danger in pursuing the SL lifestyle is to start believing beauty is not important, or superfluous, or expensive.

and it very well can be and fall into a lot of what I view as dead ends and traps, trying to make your home beautiful for instance (different from just clean). It IS and endless consumerist trap generally. Some piece of furniture, or the curtains, or etc.. is always looking ragged and you have to buy new. Yea that is a trap.

I suppose hobbies can be expensive but if your hobby is flower arranging, or art, or music, I've never seen that purely as a consumerist trap, but as a hobby. It may take some money, but I think unlike worrying about if your place is nice enough it has a logical end or satiation point to how much money it takes (the costs of music lessons usually costs x amount a month or whatever, even painting canvases or whatever there is an end to how many canvases and art supplies one even has time to work on). Dissatisfaction with the things at one's place can be endless, so yes it is the classic consumerist trap.

Beauty to me is usually the natural world, wherever it asserts (the mountains) or reasserts (an abandoned lot) or pseudo-asserts (a naturalistic garden) itself. I also enjoy what people have done with their gardens when I take a walk. I'm improving this tiny lot outside with a few flowers but there is only space for that. And if the landlord doesn't like it then can rip it out if I leave easily enough, it is better to ask forgiveness than permission.

To some extent the whole idea of seeking beauty may be as misguided as some say seeking happiness is, sure people create stuff, but much of the time one comes upon it just by happenstance.

[catherine]

To some extent the whole idea of seeking beauty may be misguided, it just happens.

So it's not about seeking beauty, but seeing beauty. Very true. "Seeking" beauty may take the form of creative self-expression, as you were alluding to with the art and music. As you said, that's different than looking for beauty in things--but at the same time, home arts require some consumption and I think a certain level of beauty is necessary to feel good in your environment. However, I find beauty in a Thoreau cabin or a monk's simple bedroom. Others may feel more beauty at Trump Towers. I love the concept of wabi-sabi--the beauty that comes from imperfection.

[Mary B.]

My dog is the scruffiest ragamuffin you've ever seen--part border collie, part lab, and part terrier. So she's like a strange bearded aberration of a black and white mottled lab. She has ears with a few ridiculously long strands just randomly growing out and needing to be cut. When people are admiring dogs at the dog park, no one ever admires her. But I think she's beautiful!


http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1572&stc=1

You have clearly not been coming to the right dog park, Catherine. I think she is entirely admirable and would admire the heck out of her if i met her in person. She reminds me a bit of Princess, our dear-departed Terri-Airhead (terrier/airedale cross, most likely.)

[iris lilies]

Great examples, IL! I LOVE the idea of vintage saris as window treatments! I'd love to see pictures. You're right about how amazing the story behind those saris is!

I didn't realize the bulldogs were "manufactured." And that's another interesting example of what I'm talking about.. the dog show was just on last week and those dogs are beautiful! Some might say that the extensive grooming and little hairdos etc. is too much. My dog is the scruffiest ragamuffin you've ever seen--part border collie, part lab, and part terrier. So she's like a strange bearded aberration of a black and white mottled lab. She has ears with a few ridiculously long strands just randomly growing out and needing to be cut. When people are admiring dogs at the dog park, no one ever admires her. But I think she's beautiful!


http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1572&stc=1


She is funny and cute! She looks like a giant Affeinspencer (spelling is wrong, its off the top of my head)

[Mary B.]

apathetic no more, I love the idea of seeing rather than seeking beauty. I find myself that beauty often has to do with light, particularly sun light illuminating things, but in general about the play of light and shadow. The object of my attention may be manufactured or natural, it doesn't seem to be specifically one or the other.

I notice when I'm thinking about natural beauty, it's often to do with actually being in the situation -- there's a physical component involving smell and the feel of the air as well as the visual appearance. So in some ways natural beauty seems more intense, but I think that's because there are more senses involved.

Where simple living comes in for me is in trying to live in a way that there is actually time to notice these things/ experiences.

[herbgeek]

Beauty is hugely important to me, but my definition is likely outside a typical one of what is "beautiful". I really embrace color and form. I like order and blank places for the eyes to rest in my house- the garden is in entirely different thing. I like light, I'm attracted to spaces with great light. I like forms/spaces that incorporate the outside, or items that bring out the innate beauty of the component- in the way a Shaker table can really highlight the grain of the wood. I've never been into beauty in the sense of ornate china or decorative knickknacks or 50 coordinating pillows on the bed. So I see no conflict with simple living and embracing beauty. I have things that are beautiful to me all around, really wouldn't have it any other way.

[razz]

A friend observed after traveling and sharing a room with me, "You see everything as a painting". I was not aware of doing so until then but now I realize that she is right.
I can stand still in awe at the stars, flowers in a garden, series of arranged colours, arrangement of items in a store, contrasts, images of children to the aging - something in me wants to capture each image for its unique beauty. Too bad that I am not particularly adept at doing so but life is so rich with what I see.

[frugal-one]

I wish I could say that I have an innate appreciation of natural beauty, but I do not. That has never been my aesthetic, I like man-made things. Now, I do agree that this outlook is likely a matter of training, you can train your eye for more natural experiences.

I just hung vintage saris at my windows, I've been collecting them for a few years. These are highly manufactured items, but from natural elements. Silk, and probably artificial dyes. They are simple and inexpensive, yet, are an awesome display of man's ingenuity. I mean who ever thought up the business of spinning that silkworm's strands into thread and then weaving them? That happened thousands of years ago in China. And now I've got fabulously intricate designs in these items, made by a human, for just a few dollars. This is the brilliance of mankind!

I love bulldogs as ya'll know and there is nothing natural about them, they are the most manufactured dog breed on the planet. I am not proud of that. I wish that I didn't love bulldogs. Bulldog love accounts for the overbreeding of this breed (well, that and the fact that at the moment they are very fashionable. Ugh.) But I love them, they are beautiful, the squishy faces are sublime, what can I say? So I feel obligated to help with Bulldog Rescue because it is just awful what we do to these dogs. I am conflicted. I wish I found long-snouted dogs beautiful (well, I do, but just not to the same extent.)

So these two examples are the ones that immediately came into my mind. One, the silk saris, are cultured but not "over cultured." The bulldogs, now, there is too much man made influence there.

I would love to see a picture of your saris hung at the windows. Please show!

[frugal-one]

Great examples, IL! I LOVE the idea of vintage saris as window treatments! I'd love to see pictures. You're right about how amazing the story behind those saris is!

I didn't realize the bulldogs were "manufactured." And that's another interesting example of what I'm talking about.. the dog show was just on last week and those dogs are beautiful! Some might say that the extensive grooming and little hairdos etc. is too much. My dog is the scruffiest ragamuffin you've ever seen--part border collie, part lab, and part terrier. So she's like a strange bearded aberration of a black and white mottled lab. She has ears with a few ridiculously long strands just randomly growing out and needing to be cut. When people are admiring dogs at the dog park, no one ever admires her. But I think she's beautiful!


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I think she is beautiful too! I love it when dogs "smile"!

[catherine]

Thanks, Mary, IL, and frugal-one--I'll pass the compliments on to Nessie!

[iris lily]

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Saris at window.

They do not "match" but they are in shades of pink and green to go with colors in our living room. I give up trying to get photos rightside up on this site.

I love the way they float in the blowing air of the heat register. They are not lined, they are barely there. Each one costs $15 -$20 each including shipping.

[freshstart]

mush brain today so I won't comment on beauty today but the pup is beautiful (aren't they all? to me they are) and I love the saris (and bulldog), they are perfect in that room. Where do you find them so inexpensively?

[iris lilies]

mush brain today so I won't comment on beauty today but the pup is beautiful (aren't they all? to me they are) and I love the saris (and bulldog), they are perfect in that room. Where do you find them so inexpensively?

Vintage saris are all over ebay, they are sold fem India. Avoid anythng that says "art silk" because that means artificial silk. Each one I bought is beautifully ironed and on most them there is a bit of wear, tiny amonts, and I like that.

Even then, of the 9 saris I purchased as silk, 3 of them were not silk, probably they are a light rayon. They are pretty but they are not silk.

[catherine]

Yes, those saris are beautiful and I love the color combination.. they look great!

[iris lilies]

This is getting off topic, and this is an interesting topic.

Seeking vs seeing--thats a truism. Cultivating "seeing" is important, much like cultivating a sense of "enough" in life.

It is as razz says, seeing the beauty n everything is a good thng. While that sounds trite, seeing "beauty" really means developing your eye to see the principles of visal beauty: balance, dominance, proportion, texture, contrast, scale. It takes knowledge and practice to see this.

[Tammy]

iPhone pics and Instagram are some of my favorite things they contribute to/show off the beauty in my world. I see it all around me and I like regular things more than "art".

[rosarugosa]

IL: The saris are lovely, that is one of my favorite color combinations. But what exactly were you drinking when you posted the photos, and may I please have a glass? :)

[JaneV2.0]

When it comes to a conflict between beauty and simplicity, beauty will win out every time for me. There's nothing simple about a handmade quilt--better to just buy a blanket, right? And we could all wear pajama uniforms like the 1960's Chinese--simple and practical. :-P

I'm opposite from Iris Lily--I vastly prefer wild-growing plants to contrived cultivars, but I agree with her about over-bred animals. Breeding known defects into animals for your amusement couldn't be more wrong. On the other hand, Selkirk Rex cats. Swoon. At least they can breathe properly. And they are beautiful.

[SteveinMN]

I figured out a long time ago that I like things that look simple and (relatively) unadorned. They can be as sophisticated as anything beneath the surface. But I like clean lines and what I will call "honesty". I like tulips as flowers, but I don't like the ones with fringed petals -- for me they take away from the purity of the shape and color. I like our Scandinavian (not-so-)Modern furniture because the lines allow the wood to stand out and the design does not clutter the eye. My wedding ring is a circle of cocobolo wood accented with a simple band of gold. Plenty of variety if you look at the wood carefully but nothing that looks like traditional ring decoration.

One of the other elements of beauty that I find most attractive is that looking at (or using) the object longer reveals even more beauty, perhaps in the natural symmetry of a variegated pattern on a vegetable or the closeness and consistency of a mitered cut in a picture frame and the way the grain matches at the corners.

Natural/man-made; no difference to me. It can all be beautiful.

[Williamsmith]

The thing about beauty....the main thing to me I guess........ is that whatever it is, a sight, a sound, a smell, a taste, a feeling , an idea, a collaboration, a meditation, a collection of words or music; it all insists on further interaction. It draws you into a relationship. You return an appreciation. You can't be a passive participant.

To limit its description to mere words is impossible. To get the full understanding, you have to stand or sit or walk or lay beside me and take in with all your senses what that beauty means and does to me or you or us.

Without this interaction, beauty exists in time and space without purpose or meaning. If you think of beauty the way I Do, it is probably a thing limited to the human experience.

I can see beauty in the way a squirrel descends a tree, mingles with the brown fallen leaves of a white oak on the ground, bounds rhythmically amongst the forest floor, acrobatically leaping from fallen tree to ascend a nearby tree and play in the limbs above. Another animal in the woods appears not to give it all much thought.

So beauty to me is both addictive and ephemeral. That's what makes it so intense.

This is perhaps just a bunch of hogwash to others but important to me.

[Geila]

What a nice thread!

The beauty that I most enjoy is natural - light, water, plants, shadows, etc. Because I'm surrounded by fresh produce grown locally, I can dedicate my small plot of land to more ornamental plantings. Big shade trees, lots and lots of flowering trees and shrubs blooming year-round, lovely japanese maples (aaawww, those baby maple leaves unfurling in spring like they are right now... so beautiful). We still grow some fruit, citrus and persimmon mostly, but more for the beauty of it rather than need. Our whole house is surrounded by beautiful plantings with a lovely view from every window. This brings us so much joy. This feels very much in line with the simple living philosophy - having your days filled with the things that bring you joy in the most natural way.

Ah, animals... I love animals and find most of them hard to resist, this is why I don't volunteer at our local shelter. I find mutts way more interesting than purebreeds because they look like "themselves" rather than thousands of other identical looking dogs. I like that and I like how their personalities are usually more well-rounded as a result. Nessie looks like beautiful Nessie and no one else! Natural beauty right there.

I do find that having lots of pets is putting a crimp into my simple life though. The inside of our house is strewn about with toys, blankets, pillows, dog beds, a dog couch!, cat hair, chewed up magazines from sharp kitty teeth, etc....... Not simple at all! And not particularly beautiful either. But I'm calling this my baby phase and enjoying it for a while longer. I'm sure some day I will go back down to 1-2 pets.

[Rogar]

I think wild natural landscape and one that is groomed can both be beautiful. Generally one represents more chaos and one is tradition and organization. Tradition and organization gives a little more sense of security. We have a culture that values structured symmetric perfection, and chaos is something we have to open up to by accepting vulnerability. Beauty isn't about just nice, lovely like, but a more rounded self becoming.

Getting back to simple living, I think some of the issues around consumption and having material possessions goes back to that sense of security, which is more ephemeral and may delve into glamour, where true beauty has to come from inside.

[early morning]

I agree, Rogar - there is beauty in many things that are opposites. To me, there is beauty that I enjoy looking at, and beauty I want to live with. I try not to keep - at least in sight- anything that doesn't look beautiful to me. I appreciate lovely, planned, controlled gardens - they are beautiful, if somewhat tortured. I love to visit formal gardens, botanical gardens, conservatories, arboretums. But I also see the beauty in, and prefer to live with, a somewhat overgrown yard and field where we try to plant things that are native to this region, and let them ramble. Of course I can't help but add some "imported" beautiful color (mostly daylillies, iris, various annuals, and some blooming shrubs), but they aren't managed much. I like to visit art museums of all sorts and marvel at the lovely works of art, but I like to live with framed advertising posters, odd photos, and some original art that just speaks to me. I love to visit, and even stay in, the Shaker villages - but it's way too austere for how I wish to live, which is a much more cluttered beauty. I see beauty in antiques and old furniture that has been lived with for a long time; most new stuff has no soul and does not appeal - its beauty is superficial to me, lol.

[peggy]

I had to log in to see your pictures IL. Lovely window treatments, but better enjoyed without the yoga poses.

I find beauty in structure, especially with the garden. I do enjoy flowering trees and variegated leaves, etc...but I really love winter for revealing the bones of my favorite friends. To see the structure of an ancient oak with it's bony arms reaching 30 or 40 feet out and up is such a thrill. You really see the character of a tree in winter. Leaves in summer, just like snow in winter, is a great equalizer. (but then I think some trees, like some people, are better clothed)
This is why i hate it when people top trees to a stub with short knobs sticking all over it. So ugly. A friend of mine used to look at such trees and say 'they missed a cut' and draw his finger like you would across your throat at the base of the tree near the ground. I couldn't agree more.

I like hardscapes in a garden..pergolas, walkways, patios, fire pits, etc... interspersed with shrubs and trees. I like flowers, but if the structure of the plant isn't pleasing to me i don't grow that flower. I like straw flowers, think they are really interesting, but the plants are so weedy looking I don't grow them.

I think this is my problem with perma culture too, like the OP. Or even some cottage gardens. if they are too wild and abandoned looking, it makes me nervous. Kind of like going to someone's house who collects lots of little knick knacks. Too much maybe, not sure why it bothers me. However, if the garden has some structure to it, like a small pergola, or even some well tended paths through the mayhem, I like it.
To me, the perfect perma culture 'garden' would be designed like several 'islands' (with a tree (fruit,nut) in the center surrounded by herbs, day lilies, perennial vegs) and each island surrounded by low growing herbs, clover, and some clumping grass. And of course paths winding through it. You would have your spots for shrubs but not just randomly here and there. To me a jumble of stuff, either outside or inside, isn't beautiful.
Open, clean woods with low, spare underbrush is beautiful. Tangled jungle woods isn't.
Clean, simple decorated rooms, with all the furniture and pictures on the walls you need and minimal window treatments is beautiful. Lots of fiddly knick knacks and collectibles isn't.

[freshstart]

Clean, simple decorated rooms, with all the furniture and pictures on the walls you need and minimal window treatments is beautiful. Lots of fiddly knick knacks and collectibles isn't.

ITA with this. I like clean lined furniture, plain linen-look shades, a color on the wall, clean surfaces free of knick knacks. That is the style I had in my old house, here is a compromise so there's that. The house was new construction with Italianate fixtures. To everyone else they were beautiful, I hate them. It's a ranch house, 50-60s era fixtures would've been perfect. I find myself looking at door knobs and caring that they are ugly to me.

Since I basically store all my important things in my room, it's been hard to keep surfaces clear and zero knick knacks. I have tired of the brightly colored artwork and want to switch it out for a large mirror I have in the basement. My old bedroom felt like a boutique hotel, it's hard to do that since this room is much smaller. I may move my desk into DD's room because it just feels claustrophobic in here. To me, it's the opposite of beauty.

[KayLR]

This is a lovely thread!

I notice that I become enchanted with natural and/or manmade things at more of a macro level. Although I love a sunset, sunrise, moonrise or star shower like anyone else, I will stare at the intricate pattern of a head of romanescu, or rows of corn kernels, my cat's eyes, the blush on a porcelain berry...for inordinate numbers of minutes before moving along. I have a little clutch of objects, mostly things I've picked up like acorns, that I like to get out and look at. I love marbles, flower centers, hand stitched hankies with minute, tiny stitches ( I love to imagine whose small hands stitched them)...or really any fine embroidery.

Maybe because I'm really near-sighted, I love the close-up view.

[Gardenarian]

I have seen a few permaculture gardens that I would describe as beautiful, in all senses of the word.

An essential step in permaculture design is deciding what elements your garden must include - that is, what purposes do you want your garden serve? It is not at all contrary to PC principles to include elements such as "a place that delights the senses", an area for socializing, a place for children to play, or simply "a place of harmony."

However, the majority of permaculture gardens seems to place a low or zero priority on beauty. They lack cohesive style, symmetry, variation, delicacy, and perhaps most importantly, craftsmanship. Too often the space appears hastily thrown together, with jury-rigged chicken coops, muddy paths, derelict fences, messy compost bins, and hodgepodge cold frames. Reusing materials is wonderful; a little experience in design and the use of tools would go a long way toward creating more attractive gardens, ones that could be equally productive as their less lovely sisters.

Beauty is very important to me, and it needn't be conventional beauty at all. Good design doesn't have a sticker price.

Another essential step in permaculture is observation, and I think this is too often overlooked. One should simply observe the garden for at least a year before making any drastic changes. I originally planned on using all edibles in my yard, but after living here for a year I have realized that, being surrounded by farms, I can get most produce (organic, fresh, high quality) more cheaply than I can grow it. There is a need for song bird and butterfly habitat, as well as more pollinators, so I am leaning more in that direction (though I will grow some vegetables and have several mature fruit trees.)

The goal of many permaculturists is to become self sufficient.
I know this is not possible in my space. I can, however, create a lovely haven for birds, bees, butterflies, and humans - one that will be low-maintence, require minimal irrigation, and use easily obtained, often free resources (such as broken concrete, leaf mulch, cardboard, compost, etc.) It will be as much of a closed loop as possible, though I have already been gathering wildflower seed.

My house is furnished with cast-offs and Craigslist finds. It would be more beautiful (and less wasteful) had I been able to take a year to observe the patterns in my home as I observe patterns in my garden. Mistakes have been made; the leather sofa is headed back to the consignment store, the ornate hall tree is a clutter magnet, the kitchen table is six inches too long for it's space...I agree that a clutter free, low maintenance home is a thing of beauty in itself...though I must do something about the ghastly light fixtures in some rooms. I'm getting there. (Though, dang, I do have a soft spot for English country houses, with all their brocade drapes, wallpaper, Persian rugs, and so on.)

I highly recommend the book "A Pattern Language" by Christopher Alexander, a seminal book on the nature of aesthetics, to anyone interested in creating beautiful, sensible, and simple spaces.

[Gardenarian]

Here's an article on this topic:http://permaculturenews.org/2016/02/26/on-the-relevance-of-aesthetics-in-permaculture/

[catherine]

Thanks for all the great thoughts and observations, folks! I just got around to reading these. I do think that beauty has to be somewhere on the hierarchy of needs, but I think it's taken for granted too often. I remember once our house was "overbooked" as we had family over for Christmas, so DH and I gave up our bedroom and slept in the unfinished basement. DH, who spent some very unaccommodating nights in the Marines in the tropics as well as the Arctic, didn't mind. I could barely make it through the night and I woke up mentally out of whack.

Gardenarian, thank you for the validation in terms of my feelings of beauty in permaculture. That article you linked to hits the nail on the head. My own permaculture design for my yard stacks functions that include vine-wrapped pergolas, pathway leading to the family fire pit surrounded by Jerusalem artichokes, a pathway to my Zen herb garden for solitude. I also have designed, but not yet build, a Japanese-inspired bamboo screen behind which would be a compact clothesline and potting table.

Nothing without function, but hopefully with a pleasing form.

BTW, thanks for reminding me of Pattern Language. I've always wanted to read it but never have. I'll have to see if the library has it, though, it seems to be expensive--even used copies are $30 on Amazon.

Another GREAT book that I've read on this topic is The Shape of Green: Aesthetics, Ecology and Design by Lance Hosey. That's where I learned about basic principles of aesthetics--like fractals, and how our eye is drawn to them.